[KarynB]

UM....NO! NO! NO!

This is horrible, seriously! I reserve the term "ex" for people I really don't want to associate with - as in "ex-husband". As in "is no more and never will be again. Done, done, done".

I don't like emom, or bmom either. It's a respect thing for me - I always type it out. If you don't have time to type out "birth mother" or "first mother" or whatever, then maybe you shouldn't be on the computer! JMO.

[proudmum]

Originally Posted by JustPeachy

I can't say it offends me per se, but if I saw the term "exmom" I would be confused because I wouldn't know what it was referring to, and I would assume it meant ex-mom, as in "no longer someone's mom." If it must be abbreviated, emom is so much easier and understood, or expmom might work, too.

"Our bmom" doesn't really offend me, either, quite honestly, especially if I understand the context in which it's used, and it is clearly understood that it is not used offensively or with bad intent.

I have to agree with you here.... if it was meant as ex mom as in a ex mother not expectant mom then yes very offensive,,,they should probably put the p on it though...

[BrandyHagz]

So...(because I just want to make sure I understand) - when someone (involved in adoption) uses 'ex mom' we're supposed to be ok...because the intent is not to offend...

...so I ask...when uneducated people, not intending to offend, call your childs birth mother his or her 'real mother' do you...just...walk away, because you know the intent is not to offend?

Really - intent or not...if we're offended, we should speak up and our voices really should be heard...I mean, I see this no different than the 'real mother' vents I see on the forums...it IS offensive and it SHOULD be addressed...its just a courtesy thing (regardless of intent).

JMHO...

[bajj]

Good job, Brandy!

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by BrandyHagz

So...(because I just want to make sure I understand) - when someone (involved in adoption) uses 'ex mom' we're supposed to be ok...because the intent is not to offend...

...so I ask...when uneducated people, not intending to offend, call your childs birth mother his or her 'real mother' do you...just...walk away, because you know the intent is not to offend?

Really - intent or not...if we're offended, we should speak up and our voices really should be heard...I mean, I see this no different than the 'real mother' vents I see on the forums...it IS offensive and it SHOULD be addressed...its just a courtesy thing (regardless of intent).

JMHO...

This is what's bothering me also.

If we're not allowed to offend, why are others allowed to offend us?

Maybe it's because, once again, birth parents simply don't matter in the grand scheme of the adoption process. But no, we don't need reform. /end sarcasm

It's frustrating. If an expectant mom is an exmom is an adoptive mom a rebound mom? Now how does THAT sound? (I would never say that. I'm making the same analogy as the poorly phrased abbreviation.)

[SchmennaLeigh]

So the wordy in me looked up "ex" in the dictionary. This is interesting.

without, not including, or without the right to have

Without the right to have, eh?

Now the term turns my stomach even more.

[KarynB]

I see what you guys are saying - but I also think there is a BIG difference in someone calling a birthmother an "Ex-mom" or just typing it in short form, and the end result turns out to be less than desirable, know what I mean?

If someone was using the term DD's "Ex-mom" for example then that is SUPER insulting...just as it is when people say DD's "real mom". When they type "exmom" it is meant to stand for "expectant mom" so there is a big difference there. Still not at all acceptable, and they need to be told how that might feel to a potential birthmother, but really different then someone calling a birthmom "Ex-mom". Does that make any sense at all?

To be really honest, as a mom of two boys adopted internationally, when I saw a thread warning people not to type "birthmom" for birthmom I was surprised. When I learnt why, then it totally made sense, but I never would have connected that for myself, know what I mean?

To be honest - I HATE all these categories we insist on putting each other in. Every situation is SO different. For one of my sons, I do not use any other term for his birthmom than "biological mother" because of circumstances that are too much to get into here. For my other son "birthmom" is way more fitting. I DESPISE being called an "adoptive mother" or referring to my kids as "adopted DS". It is so diminuative in my eyes - maybe that is something I need to work though, not sure. Is he adopted? Yes, of course, and I am nothing but proud of that. But to keep on referring to him as my "adopted son" just feels like I am seperating him from me...wow - does this make any sense at all? Sorry for the ramble...

Karyn

[SchmennaLeigh]

To be honest - I HATE all these categories we insist on putting each other in. Every situation is SO different. For one of my sons, I do not use any other term for his birthmom than "biological mother" because of circumstances that are too much to get into here. For my other son "birthmom" is way more fitting. I DESPISE being called an "adoptive mother" or referring to my kids as "adopted DS". It is so diminuative in my eyes - maybe that is something I need to work though, not sure. Is he adopted? Yes, of course, and I am nothing but proud of that. But to keep on referring to him as my "adopted son" just feels like I am seperating him from me...wow - does this make any sense at all? Sorry for the ramble...

And you know what I hate? The total lack of respect shown to mothers considering adoption. And that's what this comes down to. You can argue that it's a case of not knowing like the whole birthmom-not-a-birthmom type deal. I get it and education is important for those who don't understand that a mother is not a birth mother until the TPR is signed. But if you LOOK at this word, there's NO question that it is disrespectful. There's no love, admiration or mutual respect in the case of an ex. Removing the mother from her child prior to that TPR is nothing short of coercive.

Furthermore, you have that ability. You can say to people, "I don't want to be referred to as my son's adoptive mother." And people will end up respecting your wishes after you explain because they will side with the fact that you are your child's mother, end of story. If an expectant mother or birth mother then says the similar, wishing to removal all determiners and qualifiers, we are told that we are disrespectful. You have the upper hand in cases like these as do all adoptive parents. So why, then, is it so hard to think about the determiners you are using even when it comes to abbreviations?

Blogging now.

[cetalley]

It is in my opinion RUDE AND OFFENSIVE. FYI(for your info.)..LOL...I do not like step as in stepchildren..I refer to them as my children by marriage, but most time introduce them as my inherited children! Aparents...NOT...parents of my twins....BMOM...no way...First mom...EXPECTING MOM....whats wrong with spelling it out and saying congratulations....My wise son at age 12-13...once told me "labels belong on can goods"....I have to agree.!

[KarynB]

[quote=SchmennaLeigh]
Furthermore, you have that ability. You can say to people, "I don't want to be referred to as my son's adoptive mother." And people will end up respecting your wishes after you explain because they will side with the fact that you are your child's mother, end of story. If an expectant mother or birth mother then says the similar, wishing to removal all determiners and qualifiers, we are told that we are disrespectful. You have the upper hand in cases like these as do all adoptive parents. So why, then, is it so hard to think about the determiners you are using even when it comes to abbreviations?
QUOTE]


Hmm..that is a very interesting point. As always, it comes down to who has the power. Same as with racism - when CC's exert their power (white priviledge) in a racist way, it is particularily harmful because (usually) they are the ones in power. If a black person is racist, well, let's be honest, it doesn't really affect a CC person in terms of rights, etc. (and I am speaking in a global context here, not just North America). So you are saying it is more harmful because it is the adoptive parents who "hold the cards" so to speak?

But, I am not sure I agree with you that adoptive parents have the upper hand. From my perspective, it is the birthmother or expectant mother who has much of the "control" so to speak - if she decides not to relinquish - the adoptive parents do not exist as parents, know what I mean? Now, as I have said, I have no experience with domestic adoption and I am not trying to insult or anything. And of course I am not speaking about cases of coersion, etc. I really am just trying to understand another point of view - so feel free to "enlighten" me! Anyways...I'd love to hear your thoughts on this...

Karyn

[quantum]

Originally Posted by KarynB

But, I am not sure I agree with you that adoptive parents have the upper hand. From my perspective, it is the birthmother or expectant mother who has much of the "control" so to speak - if she decides not to relinquish - the adoptive parents do not exist as parents, know what I mean? Now, as I have said, I have no experience with domestic adoption and I am not trying to insult or anything. And of course I am not speaking about cases of coersion, etc. I really am just trying to understand another point of view - so feel free to "enlighten" me! Anyways...I'd love to hear your thoughts on this...

Karyn

I'm sorry Karyn, I'm sure you didn't mean it the way I took things but I find this really upsetting.
One thought that sprang to mind immediately...in my opinion, being a parent is a privledge not a right.
The decision to relinquish a child is heartbreaking, difficult in ALL situations. It's often done because the mother feels or is told or is convinced that she cannot provide the life her child deserves to have. One thing is is not about is control. It's about love,it's about feelings, it's about wanting to do the best for your child. Actually, I have read so many posts from expectant mothers here talking about how they are starting to feel like they want to keep their children but how they hate to disappoint the potential adoptive parents.
I feel for you, I do. I have a dear sweet friend who cannot have children and have been there every step of the way through her treatments and heartbreak. She doesn't have adoption as an option (money reasons) but I've felt this through her.
I guess part of the point that's trying to be made here is that in general society it's ok to adopt children, it's certainly ok to be an adoptee, but we as the women who bore this children, the women who relinquished these children are looked down upon by society in general. Really and truly. So throwing a term like 'exmom' into the mix ...

[KarynB]

Originally Posted by quantum

I guess part of the point that's trying to be made here is that in general society it's ok to adopt children, it's certainly ok to be an adoptee, but we as the women who bore this children, the women who relinquished these children are looked down upon by society in general. Really and truly. So throwing a term like 'exmom' into the mix ...

Hi Quantum, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm so sorry again if what I said offended you - certainly not my intention! I really am just trying to understand, so thanks for telling me this way of thinking can be offensive.

Now that I've had time to think a bit more, I am starting to think that visioning ANY part of the adoption triad as the party who is in control is extremely damaging, not to mention - incorrect. And of course, the one to suffer from this damage is the child. So...where to go with this?

Trust me when I say that most adoptive parents I know view the adoption process as the time in their lives that their entire lives felt entirely out of their control! But I see what you are saying about acceptance from society - but that again is a bit of an assumption, isn't it? I mean, our transracial adoption is certainly not always accepted by society - maybe we get as many nasty comments/hurtful things said to us or about as as birthmothers do. Just the other day my dear friend was called a n***** lover when she was out to lunch with her 3 yr old black son. Not that it's a competition (!) just saying it is not always easy in that regard for adoptive parents either. Constantly being told by society that you are not a "real" mom is tiring and hurtful, too.

And I completely see what you are saying about birthmoms not being in control for so many various reasons. And just to be clear - I wasn't implying that a birthmom makes a decision to relinquish "to be in control", just that it may not be correct to view the adoptive parents as the only ones with a say in the matter.

Hmm..ok, so what is my point?

Maybe we need to come to a place where all members of the triad are seen as equals and are dealing with some form of loss, none of which can be judged as greater than or more important than the other (inability to have bio kids, loss of a birth child). In some way, we are all hurting and so therefore need to support each other even if only to ensure the child has the greatest chance of success in the future. Too airy-fairy? Maybe.

One caveat - our decision to adopt was not based on infertility - so please forgive me if I am speaking out of turn on that issue too!

[KarynB]

[quote=quantum]
One thought that sprang to mind immediately...in my opinion, being a parent is a privledge not a right.


Oops - forgot to respond to this part. I agree with you 100%. But, from my perspective it is exhausting to have people question over and over again whether or not you are "worthy" of this priviledge. Now, in some ways, it is what we signed up for when we decided to adopt. In others, it is embarassing, intrusive, and at times, downright ridiculous. Does the SW really need to know how many times a week my husband and I have sex, and if we are both satisfied after? Or, if we plan to put the new baby's crib in the garage or attic (seriously, we WERE asked this!!!)? It is exhausting and demeaning, and it goes on and on. Necessary? Some of it, maybe. All of it? Not so much!

Anyways, of course this is from my limited perspective as an adoptive mom, and I'd love to hear more about your perspective (and others) as a birthmom!

[belleinblue1978]

[quote=KarynB]

Originally Posted by quantum

One thought that sprang to mind immediately...in my opinion, being a parent is a privledge not a right.


Oops - forgot to respond to this part. I agree with you 100%. But, from my perspective it is exhausting to have people question over and over again whether or not you are "worthy" of this priviledge. Now, in some ways, it is what we signed up for when we decided to adopt. In others, it is embarassing, intrusive, and at times, downright ridiculous. Does the SW really need to know how many times a week my husband and I have sex, and if we are both satisfied after? Or, if we plan to put the new baby's crib in the garage or attic (seriously, we WERE asked this!!!)? It is exhausting and demeaning, and it goes on and on. Necessary? Some of it, maybe. All of it? Not so much!

Anyways, of course this is from my limited perspective as an adoptive mom, and I'd love to hear more about your perspective (and others) as a birthmom!

Karyn,

I've read all your posts and have to make a couple of comments. If you don't like being called an adoptive parent because it diminishes you and you don't like your children being called your adopted children because it diminishes them, why should I have to like being called a birth or a first mom? I hate both of those terms, yet I have to wear them to make society comfortable with the choice that I made. I'm a "bad girl" who got herself into trouble and now I need to be kept in my place. No thinking I'm just a plain mother or a real mother, uh uh, I'm a birth mother and I darn well better remember that.

As for control, in open adoption anyway, adoptive parents do hold all the cards after the adoption. Ask any of us that are in OA's and we'll tell you that 99% of the time we walk on eggshells hoping we won't offend and get cut out of our children's lives. We are men and women that made a hard choice out of love, not because we thought we were in control of a situation (if adopting makes a person feel like they are out of control of something so does an unplanned, crisis pregnancy) and alot of us are well educated, have good jobs and aren't even close to being threats to our children. Yet we are often times perceived as such by both adoptive parents and society. I was the talk of the grocery store line for a few weeks in my town after a certain someone found out about my son and then she decided to spread all over town that I have "problems". Yeah, I have problems just like everyone has problems, how am I going to afford propane and what am I going to have for supper.

As for how your life is invaded, you are right that is a choice you made when you chose to adopt. When I chose to place my son, I had to fill out a 30 page social questionaire. I had to give ALL my medical history to my son's parents. Trust me, adoption is invasive for a first parent too. You're thinking, well your son deserves that information. You're right, he does, and I don't mind him having it. What I mind is that some of my medical conditions have become fodder for jokes in his adoptive family. What I mind is that even though I have no genetic information for myself because of my own adoption, when they had genetic testing done on my son, they refused to give me his results. That would have been my one chance to be able to make an informed decision about having more kids, and I can't have that information because I have no "right" to it.

You're right, everyone in the triad has pain, I think most people can acknowledge that on these forums. Thing is, when someone talks about how a term hurts them, that is true feeling for them. To have someone say, well people don't mean it to be bad, talk about diminishing.

Please know that I'm not attacking you, I'm just saying how I see things when I wear my first mom shoes. Maybe sometime I'll put on my adopted adult shoes and share those thoughts, starting with hating the word adoptee.

[proudmum]

Originally Posted by BrandyHagz

So...(because I just want to make sure I understand) - when someone (involved in adoption) uses 'ex mom' we're supposed to be ok...because the intent is not to offend...

...so I ask...when uneducated people, not intending to offend, call your childs birth mother his or her 'real mother' do you...just...walk away, because you know the intent is not to offend?


JMHO...

I do actually walk away knowing the intent was not to offend,,, how can i expect people not involved in adoption to know,,, i dont sit there screaming "i am her mom" they know it and so do i ..

What frustrates me is the fact that this person has made the effort to not call the "emom" a "birthmom" yet per your (bmoms) request,,, yet when they try to use the right term and messed up a bit the whole debate about "we are not ex-moms" comes up,,, why could someone just have not pointed out that this was confusing and the way it could look in a nice gentle way...
For goodness sake they made an effort to say the right thing,,,,, now if it was meant as bmom = Ex-mom then yes i say very offensive ...(this doesnt mean i think that they should continue to use this word,,, i think emom is more appropriate.)