[Jackiejdajda]

Carolynppk

She and my mother had met about twice, maybe once more, before she died. My mom lived in Indiana and my bmom in Montana. They would write each other on occasion, send birthday and Christmas cards and give small gifts at Christmas and their birthdays. My amom had met my grandmother and her sister (my great aunt) who my bmom lived with while pregnant with me. Everyone had a very nice relationship all around. Me and my amom looked as it as just having more family. My bmom has always been very protective of my amom, wanting me to know that she is my mother and she has always let my mom know she has no intention of taking her place.

Wooooo a big red flag here for me..
I did not do OA and I read what others have and are going through on terms of OA and I think.. better man than I..
Your birthmom may not have gotten any counseling.. she may have tried sort her emotions herself.. like a lot of us did..
Imagine what happened in her mind when she contacted your amom and made sure she did not overstep boundaries.. even tho she may have wanted to.. how does one sort this without therapy?
Without a guide to say here there be dragons..

IMO one makes decisions that are shaky..

Now its changed.. and she is in new territory.. She has some sorting to do..
I once knew a woman that (heck she posted here).. that watched her daughter grow up as the daughter was adopted into a home that was on her street.. she wanted her daughter grow up easy and did not say a word.. kept the secret..
Can anyone remember her nick.. she was a nurse or a doctor..

Listening to some other birth moms, at times I feel very selfish for having contacted her. SHe had moved on with life and everything was very neat. She thought records had been sealed and she never intended to search for me. I feel as if I imposed in her life, but because I was the innocent person in all of this, she has openned herself and her life to me. I am sure this has been very difficult for her, while my adoption was a positive experince, for her looking back it can bring nothing but pain.

No… no no no.. not going to happen.. hiding ones head in the sand does not work..
I do not think you have done anything wrong.. I think you are doing everything right..

I love her very much and will keep contact going as long as she is receptive to it. I am hoping that with time, things will go back to how they were. I tend to rush into everything I do, she is cautious, so the least I can do is give her time and space. As I said either in this post or another, it is hard to build in three years what normally takes a lifetime to build.

For a lifetime she has kept you at arms length.. now she has to turn around and change.. hard to do..



Janey those early women of CUB are so important to me.. Betty Jean Lifton was part of it as well..


Jackie

[kakuehl]

Carolyn,
I was struck by what you said about having two moms (sorry, I didn't copy the quote). Have you said that to your bmom? Also when you talk/write to her, try using "I" messages: I feel like since Mom died you have pulled back a little. Is my perception accurate? Is it something you can explain? I need you to know that I love having you in my life and I'm afraid I'll say or do something that will make you pull back. (Yeah, I know, it's scary but nothing ventured, nothing gained.)

I would love to have D put into words how he feels about me. Given the fact that he invites me to be part of life events (birthdays, etc.), I feel he wants me to be part of his life. I hope my presence has been a positive thing for him... but we don't talk about that... and like you, I'm afraid to "rock the boat" and ask. I would love to hear the words though.

The fact that your bmom continues to write regularly says to me that she really does want you in your life (regardless of the life she had made for herself without you.) I knew D's adoption was closed and never really expected contact. (I always hoped and I wanted him to be able to find me if he wanted to.) I lived my life assuming I'd never even know if he was alive or dead. I am so happy that he is now part of my life even though I'm finding new "issues" to deal with! I don't know if your bmom's feelings are similar, but they may be. Reunion is a journey with many ups and downs and sometimes with side trips as well.

[Janeytwo]

Hey Jackie and everybody!

I did not do OA and I read what others have and are going through on terms of OA and I think.. better man than I..

I was telling someone the other day how strong I think these young women are who do OA. It is such a double-edged sword. Was it better not knowing, than knowing? How can any of us really answer that when we can only see from our own experience and can't jump into the memories of someone else?

It was terrible not knowing if my children were alive or dead. But knowing their faces, their lives....and still keeping on, keeping on....wow! That's got to take some strength of soul. Just my thoughts.

Your birthmom may not have gotten any counseling.. she may have tried sort her emotions herself.. like a lot of us did..

Or maybe just pushed it to that back closet where it sat festering.

how does one sort this without therapy?
Without a guide to say here there be dragons..

Hmmm. So true Jackie. And that silence? It becomes the dragon. The days of it, years of it. Walking by women in schoolyards ands grocery stores; wondering....do they know? Are they judging me? Scrubbing floors and cleaning glass and adding lemons to the garbage disposal; everything pristine and smelling good to keep the truth away. In my life I have been desparate like a junkie to not see; not feel. Living in shame.

For a lifetime she has kept you at arms length.. now she has to turn around and change.. hard to do..

For a lifetime she has kept her life at bay; watching it through thick murkey glass. Now it has arrived in the form of a child she lost; a child who returns with love and open arms. A gift.

Janey those early women of CUB are so important to me.. Betty Jean Lifton was part of it as well..

I shall look up CUB. I ran across an obituary on an intriguing woman who fought for the rights of prostitutes and beaten wives as well. Her name was Andrea Dworkin (think I'm spelling that right). I am going to do some research. She sounded like quite a woman.


Hugs much hugs!

Janey

[Janeytwo]

Hey Kathy and everybody (again)!

I would love to have D put into words how he feels about me. Given the fact that he invites me to be part of life events (birthdays, etc.), I feel he wants me to be part of his life.

I was thinking about you just the other day Kathy. I was thinking that it must be a different landscape with sons. My daughters are quick to express emotion; like I am; like most women I suspect. But sons? Fathers? Brothers? Sigh....I think they trip on their words maybe. If you know what I mean. I am curious these days to see, if and when I meet them, how they will approach me; one daughter; one son. It will be sort of scary but wonderfully interesting too I think.

I hope my presence has been a positive thing for him... but we don't talk about that...

You know Kathy, you describe D as a friend. So maybe that actually gives you some leverage to ask this question you so badly want to ask. I mean heck, we've all gone to our friends for reassurance. You know questions like "Have I been of help to you in your life?" or "Has my friendship made your life better?" I think it's okay to ask him if you ask like that. (Just my opinion).

The fact that your bmom continues to write regularly says to me that she really does want you in your life (regardless of the life she had made for herself without you.)

That makes perfect sense. I double this sentiment!

Hugs to ya Kathy!

Janey

[kakuehl]

Thanks Janey,
The problem is that D's life is very hectic right now... When he's not working, he's wrangling kids. Somehow this is not something I feel like talking about with everybody around and the only time we talk "privately" is by IM when he's working. The time will come, I'm sure. It's just not right now.

[agathaj]

If my daughter's amother died I wouldn't know what to do! (God, please don't let her die!) I wouldn't know if I should send flowers, card??? What??? Ya know?? Because I would be so scared of doing the wrong thing and I don't know what the right thing is in that situation? Where is the boundary - everyone is so different that it would be hard to know especially when you don't know that person at all well....

[kakuehl]

My only advice would be to think of your daughter and how best to support her through a difficult time. What I might do now is different from what I would have done 3 years ago, because my relationship with both D and his amom have grown.

[quantum]

Sons are different animals. I have ZERO idea about sons. About men in general maybe?
I know my son is busy with school, work, girlfriend as well as the rest of his family. I have always been afraid to be super upfront about how I feel, about wondering how he feels because I don't want him to take off running the other direction!

[Jackiejdajda]

Janeytwo

It was terrible not knowing if my children were alive or dead. But knowing their faces, their lives....and still keeping on, keeping on....wow! That's got to take some strength of soul. Just my thoughts.

And if it is not a direct contact OA (like what Carolyn has described) just contact with the adoptive mom.. what happens.
What goes through a persons mind.. one does not get angry because if one does then there could be cut off.. maybe not the thinking of the amom but the thinking of the birthmom when there is no outside input.. no OA rules or comments no seeing the whole picture..

But then I could be terribly wrong..

But I know what I would have gone through.. knowing the amom is my life line.. my information on how my bson was or is doing..
One would not rock the boat.. And how does one turn that ship around?

Kathy and all.. my bson is disconnected and happy and all is well with him IMO..
I am just about to search out a gift for his birthday..

Jackie

[carolynppk]

I maybe misreading something, but I just wanted to say, I was not in an open adoption. I was born in 1965 and did not find my bmom until 2005. She wrote my mother immediately and told her she did not want to take her place and respected my mother and said her prayers were answered to know I went to a wonderful family.

Kathy, regretfully, rejection I fear greatly. Even in saying "I" statements, I am afraid it would be a lot of stress for her. She may be doing everything she knows to show me she cares and by saying, "I feel like you have pulled away." it may be a feeling of what more can I do to show this person I care and it is just too much energy for me to deal with. Scary thought, so I will stick with being quiet and safe!!

Funny thing is, the more I tell her I love her and make sure she knows that. i.e. I tell her I love her, with all the people I have lost in my life, I would hate for there to be a day when I may have passed and she didn't know exactly how much she meant to me. When I do this she seems to back away more. SO I will just keep writing and letting her know that I will not go any where.

It helps to read others perspectives becasue even though it may not be what she is feeling, it opens my mind, eyes and heart to possibilities I never thought of.

Thank you one and all here. I appreciate your time, perspective and support.

Carolyn

[kakuehl]

Carolyn,
All I can do is to assure you that parents (birth or adoptive) are usually stronger than we give them credit for. (I do respect the fact that you know your own limits, BTW.)

You don't know what her hopes and desires were for a relationship with you. She may be afraid to relax and believe how much you care because of how much it would hurt is she is wrong. My advice is to continue to be there, regardless of her response until she believes you are in her life to stay.

[carolynppk]

Kathy, thank you so much. I am sure it is also hard as one of her daugthers does not want anything to do with reunion. She has always said she respects each persons position, but I am sure it is hard for her. She lost her oldest, I am sure there is a fear of losing the ones you do have. I have read a thread in the birthparent area (different catagory) by a kept child who is dealing with her mother in reunion. I could never understand why my sisters didn't really want anything to do with me and why they were stand-offish. After reading that girls thread it really helped to open my eyes to what my half sisters may be feeling, especially since I was never talked about. People wrote her and told her to try to understand her mom's point of view, but I was grateful for her honesty, because for the first time it made me think, wow, maybe that is some of how they feel, I can understand that.

I love my bmother very much. I feel like I have been blessed with two wonderful moms who each have their own but separate roles in what they play in my life. One does not take away from the other, they compliment one another. I don't expect to have the same relationship with Diane as I had with my mom, or she with her daughters, but she still is one of my moms in her own right. Someone I love and respect very much.

Thank you for your kind responses. I greatly appreciate it.

Carolyn

[Janeytwo]

Dear Caroyln,

I think Kathy's advice is excellent. Keep writing to your mom. She is probably afraid; as you said, afraid of losing again.

Also, maybe writing is of help to you in keeping yourself connected with her but also with your own feelings about it all.

You are a strong woman.

Janey

[carolynppk]

Thank you, Janey. We write right now about once a week. We used to write more, but I think part of that was the "honeymoon" phase. She is a very busy woman and I have six kids. So once a week is good. We used to call one another, but with all that has happened with mom, that has stopped. I do talk with her mother (my grandmother) as I feel it is much safer. I know she is older, at home, likes talking on the phone. When I call my bmom, I worry about what do I say, will I run out of things to say (if you know me you are rolling on the floor laughing at that last comment by now!!) do I say the right things, the wrong things, plus I know that she works, comes home has a class, a husband, several horses. I don't want to bother her. I still have not sent her Mother's Day gift. With my mom dying I did not get it in the mail in time, and she was here for Mother's Day. She did not want me to give it to her while she was here, as she was with her daughters. I told her I did not get it in the mail in time and I wuld give it to her while she was her, as it was really small and she told me she had her reasons for me not giving it to her here and to just mail it and when things settled down with my mom we needed to talk about some issues. Which we never have, but leads me to think that how I feel is not how she feels. I don't want her to take my mom's place, but she is still one of my moms in my eyes. She was very uncomfortable that I got her a $50 gift certificate for her birthday, but I knew she had been through some stress, and it was out of my change that I save. I will say, that as an adoptee, while I don't agree with a lot of "The Primal Wound" stuff, I will say, I have always felt like others mean much more to me than I mean to them. My mom once told me that it seemed that this was very hard (reunion) for Diane and to know that she cared greatly because she was doing this for me. It really hurt. I don't think that was the vein mom meant it in, as she has been very respectful of Diane. Before she knew anything about her, she knew that she was young and had always said she bet she got pregnant the first time, which she did. Both my bmom and my amom were very protective of each other. Diane wanting to make sure that my mom was my mom and my mom in that this was a young girl who went through so much, went through a closed adoption and thought that door was closed forever. I often think of the Anne Murray song "You Needed Me", when I think of Diane, For me to love her so much, to care so much about what she thinks about me and to want her love and acceptance, somehow, someway, she must need me, too.

Well I have rambled on long enough. It will all come together the way it is suppose to. ANd just because it isn't the way I want it to be, doesn't mean it isn't the way it is suppose to be. Thanks one and all. Have a great weekend.

Carolyn

[Jackiejdajda]

carolynppk

I maybe misreading something, but I just wanted to say, I was not in an open adoption. I was born in 1965 and did not find my bmom until 2005. She wrote my mother immediately and told her she did not want to take her place and respected my mother and said her prayers were answered to know I went to a wonderful family.

I did have it wrong..

Its interesting that she wrote that to your amom..

And this is interesting as well. You wrote..
"especially since I was never talked about."

I know it messed me up this not talking about the relinquishment..

Reading this thread.. you wrote..

"When I call my bmom, I worry about what do I say, will I run out of things to say (if you know me you are rolling on the floor laughing at that last comment by now!!) do I say the right things, the wrong things,"

I am not laughing I am nodding and thinking.. its on both sides of the phone..
I worry about phone.. am frightened of it..

On reading the rest of your last post Carolyn.. I think of women.. three women.. Your amom your birthmom and you.. all so kind and understanding..



Jackie