[paigeturner]

Originally Posted by MamaS

No, advertising is not allowed in jails or prisons. But you can bet DFCS or CPS will be watching the mothers just waiting for those babies to be born. If the mother doesn't have someone outside willing to take the baby they go directly into foster care. Shouldn't these pregnant young women have the right to make plans for their babies even though they are in prison/jail? Maybe if Planned Parenthood or some group were allowed contact with pregnant inmates they would have more options?
Or should they lose all their rights when they are arrested and just become incubators for the state?
SMIRK

MamaS,

The situation you talked about is quite different than handing out a card to a pregnant stranger. I believe that being proactive in a way that makes assumptions about a woman's situation or is offensive to many is beyond tacky and in poor taste; a perfect example is this couple in this situation.

Networking through friends is way different than passing out cards to strangers when you don't know what their history is. As I said before, had someone passed me a card like this when I was pregnant or after I placed it would have been very hurtful...But, I suppose for some the end goal of getting a child outweighs the pain they cause in being proactive – necessary casualties…

And to be clear, I for one prefer to be called "wonder womb" rather than a human incubator - it just has a catchier ring to it...

[Oceans]

Maybe if Planned Parenthood or some group were allowed contact with pregnant inmates they would have more options?

I worked with an agency that was working with the state to negotiate OA's for inmates.

And Ms. Wonder....

I for one prefer to be called "wonder womb" rather than a human incubator - it just has a catchier ring to it...

LOL it's the alliteration

[kakuehl]

I like the term wonder womb (can I use it after menopause?)

[paigeturner]

As someone who is having hot flashes with increasing frequency, I plan on using the term forever. Feel free to join me!

[thanksgivingmom]

You know...I was planning on being wonder woman for Halloween this year, but y'all have got me thinking that maybe I should be: WONDER WOMB-AN instead!!!

[SchmennaLeigh]

MamaS; what point are you defending/arguing? I can't figure out what you are talking about. You're arguing apples and oranges as to whether CPS is watching pregnant women in jail and random strangers approaching pregnant women. If you can't see the difference in these situations, again, I have nothing more to say to you.

But man, Wonder Womb made me lol off my chair!

[Oceans]

No, advertising is not allowed in jails or prisons. But you can bet DFCS or CPS will be watching the mothers just waiting for those babies to be born. If the mother doesn't have someone outside willing to take the baby they go directly into foster care. Shouldn't these pregnant young women have the right to make plans for their babies even though they are in prison/jail? Maybe if Planned Parenthood or some group were allowed contact with pregnant inmates they would have more options?
Or should they lose all their rights when they are arrested and just become incubators for the state?

If I may (and MammaS please correct me if i am wrong) I think she is saying that woman in prison SHOULD be allowed to make choices about whether or not to give birth vrs abortion. If they choose to give birth should they be allowed to make (non-relative) adoption plans instead of the babes heading straight to FC where they will probably (?) be adopted anyway with no input allowed from the bmom.

Is this practice (no choice) a way the State can use pg women to feed the FC system with newborns?

It's an interesting thought. My first question is do States really want to "feed" the FC system? Then, should agencies profit financially from pg inmates who make an adoption plan? As I said I worked with an agency who was talking to the State about this. I can't comment on their motivation. I will say I have the highest regard for the agency.

Sorry MammaS if I misinterpreted your intent - but it is an interesting question...

ETA: Not sure of the exact networking connection but I believe she was defending her prior post.

[happygmom]

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

If you don't see the sense of entitlement by leaving a card for a pregnant woman who is married, well, we obviously have different defintions of appropriate boundaries.

There's a big difference between letting friends or acquaintances introduce you to someone after it has already been discussed and approved by both parties. It is another thing entirely to make assumptions about women/mothers. I'm STILL not buying that this couple left the card just "because." If that had been a male waiter, the card would not have been left behind.

There are appropriate ways to "advertise" or "network," even though the words themselves are crass. This? Was not one of those times and DOES smack of entitlement.

Totally agree. Having been through the revolting degradation of baby solicitation with my daughter ... Saying that this self-entitled couple did no harm to this pregnant woman who has no need or desire to explore adoption for her child is the same as saying that an attractive woman walking down the street should not be offened for being solicited for paid sex. It is unwelcome, it is uncalled for, and it should be a crime.

Happy G'Ma

[MamaS]

Yes, Oceans, that is exactly what I was saying. I did digress, because I did not understand the use of "entitlement" as a negative.
What the couple did -- handing a card to a pregnant stranger -- was rude and crude. I totally agree.
However, I do not think advertising and networking in general means that you think you are "entitled" to have a child, but rather shows the extent of desperation. Even this web site had "ads" (called profiles) from potential parents! Is there really a big difference between posting the ad here and putting it up on a bulletin board at the entrance to a college health clinic?

[belleinblue1978]

Originally Posted by MamaS

Yes, Oceans, that is exactly what I was saying. I did digress, because I did not understand the use of "entitlement" as a negative.
What the couple did -- handing a card to a pregnant stranger -- was rude and crude. I totally agree.
However, I do not think advertising and networking in general means that you think you are "entitled" to have a child, but rather shows the extent of desperation. Even this web site had "ads" (called profiles) from potential parents! Is there really a big difference between posting the ad here and putting it up on a bulletin board at the entrance to a college health clinic?

Actually MamaS, I do see a difference, a rather big one in fact. If someone is specifically seeking out profiles on line that means they are considering adoption for their child. To be bombarded by that crap just because they are in college and may not be in the greatest situation, huh doesn't that seem like they are being prejudged by people that think they are in a better situation and therefore entitled to that baby?

[Tunay4754]

I do not assume that they specifically targeted this waitress because I have heard it suggested numerous times on adoption boards/groups to have business cards made up and to include them in your bills you pay by mail and to hand them out to grocery store clerks, bank tellers and anyone you come into contact with. I do not have a problem with this ethically although I am not a bold enough person to do it myself.

Tunay

[MichelleW]

Originally Posted by Oceans

If I may (and MammaS please correct me if i am wrong) I think she is saying that woman in prison SHOULD be allowed to make choices about whether or not to give birth vrs abortion. If they choose to give birth should they be allowed to make (non-relative) adoption plans instead of the babes heading straight to FC where they will probably (?) be adopted anyway with no input allowed from the bmom.

Is this practice (no choice) a way the State can use pg women to feed the FC system with newborns?

It's an interesting thought. My first question is do States really want to "feed" the FC system? Then, should agencies profit financially from pg inmates who make an adoption plan? As I said I worked with an agency who was talking to the State about this. I can't comment on their motivation. I will say I have the highest regard for the agency.

Sorry MammaS if I misinterpreted your intent - but it is an interesting question...

ETA: Not sure of the exact networking connection but I believe she was defending her prior post.

Just an aside because I'm not commenting on the article, but the prison here in Nashville allows women to find "foster parents" outside the state foster system to keep their babies until they're out of prison. Many of these women will sign contracts w/the "foster parents" stating they are not giving their children up for adoption, and that the person who will be caring for their child is a temporary home for their child. Both parties have to sign the contract & it is completely legal. Once the child is born, the inmate signs temporary custodial rights to the "foster parent". In some cases, the inmates to eventually allow the couple to adopt their child, but in some cases they do get their children back after they get out of prison. Again, this is completely out of the state control so the inmates feel more comfortable about allowing someone else to care for their child, knowing they wouldn't be moved from house to house, or potentially losing custody of that child.

[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by MamaS

Even this web site had "ads" (called profiles) from potential parents! Is there really a big difference between posting the ad here and putting it up on a bulletin board at the entrance to a college health clinic?

Yep, a huge difference! People come here seeking adoption information - it is called adoption.com! Health clinics are HEALTH CLINICS not adoption agencies. Why can't they stay that way? I don't know, I have an issue with that one on a college campus or not to be honest.

I have to agree 100% with Belle on this one as well...

[abjbadopt]

It sounds like they would have put it in ANY bill envelope. They probably leave these everywhere. I think that people are over reacting to this article.
We however would never be comfortable doing this that is one reason why we chose international. But the couple who left the card probably didn't know it would be so offensive. Sometimes people just don't know how to put themselves in someone else's shoes.