[Janeytwo]

Hi.

Someone advised me to keep writing, so I will because every cell in my body is screaming to keep quiet, tuck down my head and never raise my voice again. Return to the non-cyber world and pretend that I am like other women. Women I pass on the street who have this....I don't know how to describe it....this understanding that they are respectable. I know that this is fear talking to me now. I know it. How many of those women do I pass who are like me? How many? Probably a lot more than I know. But still I'm afraid. I just didn't expect fear to be my companion here. I thought it would be anger or grief but not fear please not that. Oh but what I am hearing in my head today. Janey...People here think your nuts, people think your despicable....people think you're a whining self-pitying fool

Where did these terrible messages start?

I once did reach out you know. I took a risk and told a woman I thought I knew well that I'd given 2 babies up. She looked at me horrified and said "I don't know what kind of person could do something like that. I can't believe how backward you are!"

Or was it with my mother who looked down on her young daughter crying that I missed my children the day I got home from the hospital? Was it when she looked down at me and said "you made your bed now lie in it" and walked away. Two days later she told me to get on with my life and within a week I was back at work and moving on. It's okay though mom, maybe you were just as afraid then as I am now.

God I hate this!

Shaking at the keyboard as I write.

Janeytwo

[lalgee]

OH! How much you are hurting. My heart goes out to you janeytwo. Not that I am glad to see anyone suffer, but it helps my heart to know that there are those out there that hurt like me, and are able to put it into words.
It is a step forward, one of many many more, but forward all the same. We had no choice but to "get on with our lives", I mean who can stop the days from coming, and who can reverse what we did? God can, but He knows better for us, and we have to trust that.
Are you in reunion, or have any prospects of it? I feel like that is the only thing that will ever help me take any steps toward healing, but have been denied contact. I'm stuck, and sad, like you. I will pray for you right now. We WILL get blessing from this one day....

[bmomto2_momto2]

Janeytwo

Wow... I feel for you so much right now. I am a birthmother too. I have two children placed for adoption. I want you to know that your decision was a parenting decision and it showed real maturity and insight on your part. Many things we do as parents are very difficult for us but are what is best for our children. No one has the right to look down on you for what you did. You have done NOTHING wrong. I do think that your experience with adoption thus far has not lead you down a path where you can feel positive about it. I believe in counseling and hope you can get some. It does not sound like you have anyone close enough to you that you are comfortable having them help you through so professional counseling seems the best option for you. Of course there are the support groups like this one that can help too. You just have to keep reaching out. You can not sit and dwell on your decision every minute of every day but neither should you go on and pretend it never happened. I did that for 18 years. Bad choice. Maybe, when you get to a point that you can be more open about this you could start a little album or something. I am starting to gather one for my son. I will have his birth photo, hospital birth certificate, one picture I have of him after his adoption, some family pictures, family history (medical, etc.), cards that I am now starting to get for his birthday, and probably pages where me, my husband, and our son and daughter can write down thoughts if they would like. I think projects like that can help heal us. If you ever need to talk let me know and I will give you contact information for me.

[JustPeachy]

Oh, let me tell you, I can fully relate to what you said about having your mom tell you to get over it. I was given a little bit of time to cry and grieve. A week. Then it was expressed to me that I should be over it by now. I think other people simply could not tolerate seeing and hearing that raw grief so they wanted us to shut it out and pretend it wasn't there. I was fortunate that I got outside counseling and did have some supportive friends who allowed me to talk about it. I was also very lucky to have met another birthmother, quite by chance, who I could rely on to talk about things that we could not discuss with others, for fear of hearing things like "how could you!" or "I could NEVER do that!" thrown in our faces. My response now to those comments would be "yes, you COULD do it if you were in my circumstances (which were not good) and wanted a life for your child that you couldn't provide." Keep in mind, my decision was my own, and not forced by anyone. Also, I didn't have to deal with shame from my family. I always felt good about my decision to place, despite the pain involved. I do understand if you did not have a choice how much harder it would be to deal with what had happend. The pain is so much greater in these circumstances, I think. Janey, I hope you keep writing. Maybe think about writing a journal, too. And certainly counseling can be beneficial. It is very scary right now, but you show great strength to reach out for help. I wish I could say to you not to feel ashamed about relinquishing your children, but as another poster said, I don't want to tell you how to feel. Please know, though, that I don't think you are a bad person or defective or anything like that at all!

[Jackiejdajda]

Janeytwo

But still I'm afraid. I just didn't expect fear to be my companion here. I thought it would be anger or grief but not fear please not that.

The fear of turning around and facing yourself.. The fear of finally stopping from abandoning yourself..
The unknown..

I know I did not sort a thing when I gave my bson up for adoption..
I just kept it all in.. and solved it in my young mind.. solved it as a person without a lot of wisdom would..

I talked about this with a therapist once.. He said triggers are when we have sorted something when the trauma happened and then shut it down.. shut ourselves down.. But when we are reminded we spiral into the bad thoughts and the bad feelings and we do not see what really happened..

He said that if we look at what happened from out adult eyes.. We can see that some of the people in our lives did it wrong..
We need help when we have babies.. I do not think any of us can do it alone.. and if we do not get that help.. and if the people in our lives just take a pass and blame it.. on anyone or anything..

We are abandoned.. and in turn we abandon ourselves.. or I did..

Where did these terrible messages start?

That’s what needs to be sorted.. Maybe journal.. maybe write your life down.. especially when the bad stuff happened..
Maybe write it here.. you are safe here.. this is a good place the moderators are good people.

I once did reach out you know. I took a risk and told a woman I thought I knew well that I'd given 2 babies up. She looked at me horrified and said "I don't know what kind of person could do something like that. I can't believe how backward you are!"

That is ignorance speaking.. Its interesting how we (some of us) allow ignorance in so deep..
I know I do..

Or was it with my mother who looked down on her young daughter crying that I missed my children the day I got home from the hospital? Was it when she looked down at me and said "you made your bed now lie in it" and walked away. Two days later she told me to get on with my life and within a week I was back at work and moving on. It's okay though mom, maybe you were just as afraid then as I am now.

There is a thread here about a Dear Abby letter.. a woman is upset her daughter is pregnant (15 if I remember) and she is worried about the message it sends to her other younger daughter..
All wrong.. all bad parenting.. all ignorance..

What happened to you was wrong..

Jackie

[RavenSong]

Janey, if you haven't done so already, please read The Girls Who Went Away by Ann Fessler. This book is amazing, simply amazing. You'll see yourself in each and every story, and hear other women who have the same exact feelings you're struggling with. You are not alone...there are hundred's of thousands of us walking around who have gone through the same experience and who struggle with the same issues and emotions.

I don't know why there are so many judgmental people in this world. But I know the type of hurt you've experienced. When I relinquished my baby at age 17, I was met with approval (mostly) for my decision. It was easy at the time for other people to see that I was still a kid myself. When I became older, however, I started getting the negative reactions from people when I told them I had placed my son for adoption. Those were the people who hadn't known me as a teenager ~ they didn't see the girl, they only saw the woman. I've always been great with kids...it's just a gift I have. So people I have met in adulthood often don't understand how in the world I could have relinquished my own child. They say things like, "oh, but you're so wonderful with children". They tell me that I would have been a good mother, that I could have handled motherhood. But the truth is they don't see me as I was back then, a lonely, scared teenager who didn't think she was good enough.

I think some people in our society also buy into the myth that birthmothers voluntarily relinquish their babies because they don't want them, because they don't care. And that is a bunch of garbage. It's so strange ~ when I was 17 y/o, I was told by the professionals that I would be selfish if I kept my son. Thirty-six years later, I'm told that I was selfish in surrendering him. It's really a case of "dammed if you do and dammed if you don't".

[Janeytwo]

Dear Lalgee, I mean who can stop the days from coming

This struck such a nerve in me. I thought...how many days is 30 years....how days is that? How many days have I sort of slept-walked through this. No, not sort of slept-walked. I have slept-walked. Sigh...was I doing my children an injustice by not thinking about them as hard as I could. Yet when I look back I realize they slipped into my thoughts almost every day of those 30 years, but I would just say to myself, don't think...don't think.... just get on with whatever.

Are you in reunion, or have any prospects of it? I feel like that is the only thing that will ever help me take any steps toward healing, but have been denied contact.

Reunion.... I haven't dared to even entertain such a possibility. I haven't dared even to think what I would say. The message that comes back from my brain is [i]Don't hurt people, don't hurt people, you've done enough damage Janey[i]

I'm stuck, and sad, like you. I will pray for you right now. We WILL get blessing from this one day....[/quote]

Thanks so much. Prayers are never little things even if they're just one word. And I would very much like to give back your kindness by letting you know that I am praying for you too.

Wishing you a little sunshine in your life today,

Janey

[Janeytwo]

Dear Raven,

What you wrote beneath your name...."birthmom out of exile"...... That's one of the things I've felt for years. Like I'm behind some kind of glass separated from everyone else by this decision so long ago. And it's weird because the glass is one-way, like they're looking at me and shaking their heads in disgust but I can't see myself in my own reflection. I can't see myself....I can only see disgust.

I will pick up the book but maybe I will have to stare at it for a while and tell myself to garner courage to read it...but I will pick it up.

Thank you.

Much gratitude,

Janey

[Janeytwo]

Dear Jackie,

>>>>We are abandoned and in turn we abandon ourselves>>>>

It is the old head-to-heart thing you know? My head says "yeah that is correct" but my heart says, "did I abandon someone? Who did I hurt with my actions? Who did I abandon?!" Why is it that I can't understand the answer is me? And why is it that as I write this the old messages fly in, People are clucking their tongues at you Janey...people are saying to themsleves when will this whiny brat go away!

No Janey...don't listen! Write! Write! Keep going......


Thank you for this insight, :-)

Janey

[Jackiejdajda]

>>>>We are abandoned and in turn we abandon ourselves>>>>

It is the old head-to-heart thing you know? My head says "yeah that is correct" but my heart says, "did I abandon someone?

This from Advice From a Failure.. Jo Courdet

8. YOU ALWAY
LEARN TO
SWIM IN THE WINTER


YOU DO NO T NEED to be loved, not at the cost of yourself.
The single relationship truly central and crucial in a life is
the relationship to the self. It is rewarding to find someone
whom you like, but it is essential to like yourself. It is
quickening to recognize that someone is a good and decent
human being, but it is indispensable to view yourself as
acceptable. It is a delight to discover people who are wor-
thy of respect and admiration and love, but it is vital to be-
lieve yourself deserving of these things. For you cannot
live in someone else. You cannot find yourself in someone
else. You cannot be given a life by someone else. Of all the
people you will know in a lifetime, you are the only one
you will never leave nor lose. To the question of your life,
you are the only answer. To the problems of your life, You
are the only solution.


Courdet titled this chapter.. you always learn to swim in the winter..
To me this means that we learn how to sort this stuff.. when its real bad..
When we are in the winter of our soul..

Turning this around is the subject at hand.. finding how to sort this is the task..
I knew when I had to do it and when we met a long time ago.. I was deep into sorting it..

Who did I hurt with my actions? Who did I abandon?!"

I think the act of shutting it all down.. and just not speaking of it.. not working through the emotions involved in giving two babies up for adoption at sixteen.. is the abandonment..
But you were not shown the way.. and probably the issues did not present themselves.. I know it took me twenty years..
But now you are standing at the door..
It works this stuff.. trust me it works..

Why is it that I can't understand the answer is me?

It becomes a habit.. it becomes a way.. it is automatic..
I can not find my feeling self sometimes.. I know it shuts itself down.. but now I fight for it..
Now I do not avoid.. now I cry and rage and get angry and do all the things that used to scare me.. and I know now I will come out the other side of the bad stuff..

And why is it that as I write this the old messages fly in, People are clucking their tongues at you Janey...people are saying to themsleves when will this whiny brat go away!

Courdet also wrote in that chapter..

The Temporary Facts of Life

It is a superlative by-product that straightening out your
relationship to yourself also happens to straighten out your
relationship to other people. But even if this were not so,
the self would nevertheless be the place to start, for it is
more agonizing by far to live unloved by yourself than un-
loved by some number of people with whom you come in
contact.


Some of us were never shown love.. and heck some of us went and looked for that love when teens and had sex and had babies and then the whole world blew up in front of us.. and we were not shown love..
We were told that if we were good then we would save face (their face).. Or like you.. you got two messages one keep one give away and if you did not give away.. don’t come home..

In a most traumatic time of you life you were not shown love..

It’s a fight.. it’s a journey this learning about love and how to love ourselves.. A process and you posting here and reaching out is an act of love for yourself.. A beginning..

No Janey...don't listen! Write! Write! Keep going......

I was not on yesterday.. my daughter was here.. and she is now back in Toronto..

Jackie

[Jackiejdajda]

RavenSong

I think some people in our society also buy into the myth that birthmothers voluntarily relinquish their babies because they don't want them, because they don't care.

Its so hard to debunk this one.. isn’t it..
The one relinquished.. thinking the reason why the woman will not accept contact is because she really does not care..
When IMO in actuality.. she has been traumatized and not shown caring or loving or understanding..
I just wrote to Janey that a teen will look for love when not shown it at home.. or not shown in a way they see it.. and then in turn look for it by having sex.. and then having to give up the baby because she loves her family.. or heck wants to stay in her family..
None of it learning about real love.. real love of self.. and real love of the baby aka mother love..

To me its such a showing of how little we as a society (some of us as always) know of love..

Jackie

[Janeytwo]

[quote=Jackiejdajda]. It is
quickening to recognize that someone is a good and decent human being, but it is indispensable to view yourself as acceptable.

>>> I can see how this applies to the years since my children. Sitting around a table full of women always feeling apart...less than....judged. My (hate to use program lingo here) co-dependency would love to say that it was all in my head. But how many times my sister called me slut in front of other women. Some of my other sisters laughing because they were young and naive or maybe embarrassed. Somewhere along the road I have learned that if I think of myself as removed from respectability than I'll be forgiven. Ouch! Painful to admit that.

I knew when I had to do it and when we met a long time ago.. I was deep into sorting it..

>>>>>So many times you helped me my friend on that difficult road. Wisdom beyond your years...hard won. I did an odd thing with all of that back then though. I used the programs tools to bounce my own pain from my mind and throw in that iron box in my heart where it has rusted in now for thirty years. Honest to God, Jackie...how could I have spent ten long years in therapy and almost that many in three meetings a week and not know what the hell I'd done to myself?!!

Now I must lean on you once again and on the other good women here too who've reached out though they don't know me. It feels almost like a sin to do so to all of you. (Scray to admit that.) <<<<



And probably the issues did not present themselves..

>>Two strange co-incidences I'm remembering. I will post on them.<<<<


It is a superlative by-product that straightening out your
relationship to yourself also happens to straighten out your relationship to other people.

>>>Self-actuation. The only freedom<<<<



In a most traumatic time of you life you were not shown love..

>>>>I think about that. What if it were my daughter? I would stand with her, no matter what. But maybe I have the safety of distance from another time. Then again, I thought so much had changed. But when I read posts in here, I think again. When you wrote about your inner child and the picture you'd posted, I took out photos of me from when I was fifteen/sixteen. That girl is lost and I must find her. I have done her a great injustice...I've buried her alive.


I was not on yesterday.. my daughter was here.. and she is now back in Toronto..

>>>Hope you and your daughter got a chance to enjoy the day<<<

Much peace to you and yours Jackie,

Janey

[Jackiejdajda]

Janeytwo

>>> I can see how this applies to the years since my children. Sitting around a table full of women always feeling apart...less than....judged.

Its very hard to get past this feeling of being judged.. and lacking..
I met up with my sister a few years back (I had not spoken with her for years) and she told me I speak like our mother (she does not like our mother very much) … And I realized I still go back to that place where I feel ‘wrong’.
And a failure..

And I remember saying to my sister.. “I could have been a star!”

My (hate to use program lingo here) co-dependency would love to say that it was all in my head. But how many times my sister called me slut in front of other women. Some of my other sisters laughing because they were young and naive or maybe embarrassed. Somewhere along the road I have learned that if I think of myself as removed from respectability than I'll be forgiven. Ouch! Painful to admit that.

Respectability.. what is that..

The reason why some of us gave up our babies was so we could be respectable.. All the human pain from that..
I tuned in and dropped out in the late sixties.. and I wanted nothing to do with that pretend world.
Still that way..
"Its about survival" my mom would say.. "its about getting a job and not starving"..

>>>>>So many times you helped me my friend on that difficult road. Wisdom beyond your years...hard won. I did an odd thing with all of that back then though. I used the programs tools to bounce my own pain from my mind and throw in that iron box in my heart where it has rusted in now for thirty years.

I used to read the books and say.. “That’s me!” and “That’s me too!”
And then get on with my life so proud that I had sorted who I was..
I did not realize that there is a part two to this.. a sorting..
When I did 'The Artist Way'.. book written by Julia Cameron.. (I did an on line group and a real time group) I started journaling and going on artist dates all by myself.. when I did that I started to really sort my stuff..
I went to Boston on the bus by myself.. and I sat in the Commons.. near where I got pregnant.. And I journaled.. and I came to the ‘aha’ moments..
And learned..

You are obviously ready to start now.. and the words and deeds are in front of you.. all you got to do is start..

Honest to God, Jackie...how could I have spent ten long years in therapy and almost that many in three meetings a week and not know what the hell I'd done to myself?!!

You have the knowledge..

Now I must lean on you once again and on the other good women here too who've reached out though they don't know me. It feels almost like a sin to do so to all of you. (Scray to admit that.) <<<<

There are readers here that do not post.. and there are no books out there written about healing from giving a baby up in the closed era... not in my thinking..
If someone knows of books like this please post..

Yes there is 'The Girls that Went Away' and I am sure it’s a good and important book but it was written by and adoptee that has not walked the walk.. given a baby up.. gotten on a bus alone to go and sign the papers..
Jeez..

Soooo you posting what you are going through may help others..

>>>Self-actuation. The only freedom<<<<

It is..

I wrote
In a most traumatic time of you life you were not shown love..

>>>>I think about that. What if it were my daughter? I would stand with her, no matter what.

What got me to that question or what if it was my daugher was when I was in therapy years ago and I printed up some of my Adult Children of Alcoholic stuff.. what I had posted somewhere.. and took it to the therapist..

It was about how my mom and dad had left me alone when I was way too young and I plastered myself on the window.. lights on..
My mom got mad at me when they got home.. she sent me to my room.. and I was ashamed..
She told me I was going to lure a bad man to the house and I was alone..

The therapist asked me..”Would you say that to your daughter?”
“Would you leave your daughter alone like that?”

And I realized that I was not bad.. mom was a bad parent.. She did it wrong..
And getting angry with my mom and dad was part of my therapy.. this rather than protecting them.. in my heart what kids do..

Its part of the going back and re-mapping from our adult eyes..

But maybe I have the safety of distance from another time. Then again, I thought so much had changed. But when I read posts in here, I think again. When you wrote about your inner child and the picture you'd posted, I took out photos of me from when I was fifteen/sixteen. That girl is lost and I must find her. I have done her a great injustice...I've buried her alive.

This from Alice Miller.. Pictures of a Childhood.. (Alice Miller and Julia Cameron (The Artist Way and Vein of Gold) and Melody Beattie (her daily reader and Codependent No more.. and her twelve steps) are the woman I consider my wise women.. )

From.. Pictures Of A Childhood.. page 23
Alice Miller


It is therefore understandable that most people, of
my generation are never able to free themselves of
the compulsion to defend and protect their parents.

Probably I, too, would have remained trapped by
this compulsion and, because it is so all-pervasive,
would not even have recognized it as such, had I not
come in contact with the child within me, who
appeared so late in my life, wanting to tell me her
secret.
She approached very hesitantly, speaking to me
in an inarticulate way, but she took me by the hand
and led me into territory I had been avoiding all
my life because it frightened me. Yet I had to go
there, I could not keep on turning my back, for
it was my territory, my very own. It was the place
I had attempted to forget so many years ago, the
same place where I had abandoned the child I once
was. There she had to stay, alone with her
knowledge, waiting until someone would come at
last to listen to her and believe her. Now I was
standing at an open door, ill prepared, filled with
all an adult's fear of the darkness and menace of
the past, but I could not bring myself to close
the door and leave the child alone again until my
death. Instead, I made a decision that was to
change my life profoundly: to let the child lead
me, to put my trust in this nearly autistic being
who had survived the isolation of decades.



Alice Miller wrote about child abuse.. Sexual abuse.. Her books are incredibly important in this healing the inner child..
She was the one that helped me understand that I needed to speak with myself..


Jackie