[Nicole28]

The idea that there are bio-mother's who are just "watching" their bio-child's MySpace profile makes me uncomfortable. I can't explain it...it just does. Something about it feels almost voyeuristic to me. Granted, if you do not have a private page [I don't understand why anyone, especially a teenager, would have a page that WASN'T private] anyone can view your information, but the idea of a bio-parent continually viewing their bio-child's profile just feels weird to me...

I feel like - if the child is under the age of 18, and you know you can't have contact...why continually check their profile and look at their friend's profiles too?

If I found my bio-mother's MySpace profile I would either bite the bullet and contact her or avoid it. I wouldn't want to torture myself. And it feels like an invasion of privacy in a sense...although I suppose that, if you put yourself out there on the Internet, you're sacrificing a certain amount of privacy anyway.

[agathaj]

Nicole28 - you have totally hit the nail on the head IMO. Yes, I have thought about this too. First off I am blown away by the personal information that even adults put on their MS, Facebook etc pages that are public. If I had hacked into my bteen's private page (I wouldn't have a clue how to do this but I have heard of teens doing this sort of thing to each other) then that should be considered stalking and perhaps illegal if there's such a thing as internet police out there. Why keep a watch on their pages? because they change them constantly and I "know' my bchild better than I ever have with f2f visits etc. I know what her friends look like and the school she goes to and what she's done on the weekend - this sort of thing is what I know about my nieces and nephews and my kept children. Also I can call a halt to it and not go near her page for weeks or months if it gets overwhelming which it often does - it's hard to explain but I have been told many adoptees probably feel something similar in regards to their firstparents. It has made me question if I am ready to have a relationship with her. I use to think I was but now I am happy as things are. It's difficult to explain...sorry. Call me weird, call me an internet stalker maybe...I have had to accept that adoption by its nature is weird and dysfuntional and unnatural and abnormal so perhaps this is another part of that. sigh...I wish I could walk away from it all but I can't make the emotions and a basic need to know go away no matter how I try. Sorry again....

[JustPeachy]

I feel if you are putting yourself out there on the internet without any privacy settings, it's pretty much fair game for anyone to look at. Is it voyeuristic to look? Perhaps, but in my mind, it is at least somewhat exhibitionist to have a page in the first place. I don't think it's fair to put something out there for the whole world to access and then be upset when/if someone (no matter who they are) looks at it. That is something that you just can't have both ways.

Contacting someone through MS or other sites, however, as a minor, I don't agree with. If the aparents aren't being truthful or holding up their end of the arrangement, that is a shame, however, I don't think it gives the bmom carte blance to barge in and make that decision to contact against the aparents wishes. It's not that I think 18 is some magic number and that a 15 or 16 year old couldn't handle it until they reach 18. That's not the issue to me. It just feels like "coparenting" to me, and overstepping boundaries, to disregard the aparents who have a minor child, and make the decision to inititate contact, regardless of whether or not the child is ready. Yes, the aparents may be strangers and we don't know if they are being truthful. The child could be more than ready and wanting the contact and perfectly able to handle it, as far as we know. Then again, they may not. It is up to the parents to make that call. Even if they are saying "no" because of their issues or fears, or feel threatened by the bmom, it's still their call. Just MHO.

[Isabo]

I often get a feeling that people are under the impression that there is some legal paper that relinquishing parents of infants sign that is akin to a permanent restraining order, where we aren't allowed within X amount of feet of our children because we will do them some great physical or emotional harm. The ONLY legal thing that relinquishment does it to make us not legally related to our children anymore. We aren't automatically designated as stalkers or dangerous or anything else to our children. We are now on par with the general public IN A LEGAL SENSE. This means that we can do anything else that anyone else can do which is legal. Therefore, we can view public MySpace pages every day, all day, if that is what we want to do. It is not invading anyone's privacy. We can also do things like read a newspaper that has an article about our child's accomplishments, go to graduation ceremonies, walk through a neighborhood, read a yearbook, or what ever anyone else is the general public is allowed to do, and NONE of it is an invasion of privacy. We have a particular interest in OUR child, which is natural, normal and completely human. OF COURSE we are interested in how our child turned out, how they grew up, what kinds of friends they have, etc. etc. etc. What a normal person would not be interested in that? We want to know we did the right thing or at least not the wrong thing, and we are interested in them as human beings and as our children. We don't stop being human beings who LOVE our children, and we don't have permanent restraining orders against us.

I am not my niece's parent, but I look at her page all the time. She lives in another state and I am getting to know her through her MySpace page. She has made herself private, and she "friended" me, but I can understand an adopted teenager making their page public in the hopes that their first parent will find them and read their page. Quite frankly, if the adoptive parent has allowed their child to have a public page, then they have NOTHING to complain about, IMO.

I relinquished my son during the closed adoption era. I lived in torment for almost 20 years, not knowing even one detail about my son's life. I did not know whether he was alive or dead. This is an inhumane thing to do to a parent. Completely inhumane. If a first parent can find some peace by looking at a MySpace page, then I say go for it. We are not criminals who deserve to be punished or barred from knowing anything about our children, EVEN before the age of 18.

Edited to add: To avoid confusion, I will add that I am NOT saying that the first parent should contact their child before 18. Quite frankly, they have a legal right to do that as well (remember, no restraining orders have been issued), but they should go through the adoptive parents until the age of 18 out of respect for their position, even if they adoptive parents have proven that they are not trustworthy where promises to the the first parent are concerned.

Of course, what I am saying about restraining orders may not apply to a parent who has had their parental rights terminated without their consent. I have no experience in that area, so I am limiting my comments to those who are considered to have "voluntarily relinquished" their parental rights.

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by agathaj

dpen6: This is the other dilemma isn't it - how do we know if a teenager is ready or not if APs are not prepared to be open and honest with us and the teenager in question? And even if an AP came back and said, I've spoken with Jane and she's not ready - these people are strangers to us too - so how can we trust them to know that they truly have done what they said?
I am hoping that OAs will almost put an end to this type of situation because there should be an openness from the beginning. But in some of these cases it was suppose to be an OA and it was closed by the APs so the first parents are never going to trust these people again.

Its not about the aparents being open and honest(although you would hope they would be, the the childs sake), its not about the need for the first mother to make contact. Its about the ability of the child having to deal with VERY adult emotions of their parents when they are going through the turbulant teen period. Many teens are not able to get passed their own emotions and really for a birth family to contact without the support of the afamily is dangerous FOR the child. NOT because their is anything WRONG with the birth family but because the child may not be able to process and act out. Adoption is about the child RIGHT?: How can we keep it that way?

Isabo, The fact that you feel you have an invisable restraining order tells me that you really are not thinking of the outcome of the child but of your resentment that birthfamilies may not have access to the child. While in some cases the afamilies may have closed things down, or maybe it was a closed adoption the point is that while a birthfamily may get some satisfaction of contacting the child againist the evil aparents wishes it MAY not be in the best interst of the child. In fact it may cause pain and confusion to the child. Not because their is any judgment aganist the birthparent but because the situaion the child is in. They don't know any better.

My suggestion is to wait until the child has the benefit of maturity and some life experiance behind them in order to deal with it.

As far as my space goes , yes anyone can read all they want but to contact because its just out there is self serving.

The child was relinqished, that is the fact. 16, 18, 20 years later it is the person adopted that the EVENT truly happended to.....it totally impacted how their life pans out from the infant stage to adulthood, it is not just a piece of them as it is with birthfamilies and adoptive families it has become who they are and how they are. Thats is so often not even thought about from everyone on the world...not just the parents.

nicole28 is right..if the fact that looking at this childs ms is painful then just avoid it, if looking at it may make you contact not knowing how it may impact the child then please for the childs sake avoid it.

[Isabo]

Originally Posted by dpen6

Isabo, The fact that you feel you have an invisable restraining order tells me that you really are not thinking of the outcome of the child but of your resentment that birthfamilies may not have access to the child. While in some cases the afamilies may have closed things down, or maybe it was a closed adoption the point is that while a birthfamily may get some satisfaction of contacting the child againist the evil aparents wishes it MAY not be in the best interst of the child. In fact it may cause pain and confusion to the child. Not because their is any judgment aganist the birthparent but because the situaion the child is in. They don't know any better.

I love it when I am misquoted and then told I have a resentment because I am misquoted. Dpen, I never said and I don't feel that I have an invisible restraining order against me - those are a summary of YOUR words ("The fact that you feel you have an invisable restraining order"). I DID IN FACT say, "I often get a feeling that people are under the impression that there is some legal paper that relinquishing parents of infants sign that is akin to a permanent restraining order".

Thank you for telling me that I am not thinking about the outcome of the child. That is RIDICULOUS and WRONG. My son found me. I did not search AND WAS NOT GOING TO SEARCH UNTIL HE WAS AT LEAST 25. I respected the fact that he was young, needed to grow up, it needed to be his choice whether to have a relationship, etc. etc. I made sure my information was available in the state registry, and then I RESPECTFULLY WAITED. I did understand that it was all about him. He found me when he was 19, at the urging of his amom, who wanted to "fix him". All it did was create a huge mess, because he was not emotionally ready, and the amom thought she would find some birthmother stereotype, and that she would be able to point at me and say LOOK WHAT WE SAVED YOU FROM and he would then be grateful for the rescue. It didn't work out that way, because they found someone normal and high functioning, and that was actually a disappointment to amom that I wasn't some drug addict. So, in my case, the bad judgment of my son's adoptive mother in pushing him into a reunion that he was not ready for, for her own self-serving reasons, caused my son a world of grief and pain. Oh, and by the way, it caused ME a world of grief and pain too.

So, yes, I understand VERY WELL that it is about the child. What I was addressing is the sentiment expressed in Nicole28's post where she felt a bio parent looking at their own child's page was weird and made her uncomfortable. In addition, I see adoptive parents getting upset because the first family has found out some information about their child, such as when they are graduating. Those type of statements are why I said that "I often get a feeling that people are under the impression that there is some legal paper that relinquishing parents of infants sign that is akin to a permanent restraining order".

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by Isabo

I love it when I am misquoted and then told I have a resentment because I am misquoted. Dpen, I never said and I don't feel that I have an invisible restraining order against me - those are a summary of YOUR words ("The fact that you feel you have an invisable restraining order"). I DID IN FACT say, "I often get a feeling that people are under the impression that there is some legal paper that relinquishing parents of infants sign that is akin to a permanent restraining order".

Thank you for telling me that I am not thinking about the outcome of the child. That is RIDICULOUS and WRONG. My son found me. I did not search AND WAS NOT GOING TO SEARCH UNTIL HE WAS AT LEAST 25. I respected the fact that he was young, needed to grow up, it needed to be his choice whether to have a relationship, etc. etc. I made sure my information was available in the state registry, and then I RESPECTFULLY WAITED. I did understand that it was all about him. He found me when he was 19, at the urging of his amom, who wanted to "fix him". All it did was create a huge mess, because he was not emotionally ready, and the amom thought she would find some birthmother stereotype, and that she would be able to point at me and say LOOK WHAT WE SAVED YOU FROM and he would then be grateful for the rescue. It didn't work out that way, because they found someone normal and high functioning, and that was actually a disappointment to amom that I wasn't some drug addict. So, in my case, the bad judgment of my son's adoptive mother in pushing him into a reunion that he was not ready for, for her own self-serving reasons, caused my son a world of grief and pain. Oh, and by the way, it caused ME a world of grief and pain too.

So, yes, I understand VERY WELL that it is about the child. What I was addressing is the sentiment expressed in Nicole28's post where she felt a bio parent looking at their own child's page was weird and made her uncomfortable. In addition, I see adoptive parents getting upset because the first family has found out some information about their child, such as when they are graduating. Those type of statements are why I said that "I often get a feeling that people are under the impression that there is some legal paper that relinquishing parents of infants sign that is akin to a permanent restraining order".

Sorry Isabo, It does sound like you DID have the best interst of your child at heart...but I still hear some resentment towards adoptive parents. My point is that as an adoptee I Don't want to be in the middle of the push pull stuff that birth and adoptive parents tend to play...and I am VERY much an adult. I can not imagine how it must feel for a teen.

Sorry your son's aparents were so bad that they wanted to fix him.

[Nicole28]

This is how I feel about ALL of this:

I still feel that a bio-parent keeping tabs on their bio-child via MySpace is strange. I still feel like it would be self-inflicted emotional torture. That is just my own opinion. Perhaps for others it is reassuring and calming. I am not suggesting that a bio-parent who does this is a voyeur or that they are invasive or weird themselves.

At the risk of sounding cruel, uncaring and a bit narcissistic, I have to say that it is so hard for me to feel badly for the majority of bio-mothers who have relinquished. This is probably because of my own situation - knowing that my bio-mother kept her pregnancy a secret and that she was highly educated and most likely was not coerced or forced into relinquishment. I know that bio-mothers struggle for years with regret and pain and grief for the loss, but I can't comprehend that because they did have a choice. I certainly did not have a choice. Granted, my adoption was the most amazing blessing I've ever received. My adoption was private and closed - no communication with the bio-mom at ALL on the part of my parents - and I doubt that my bio-mom would have any idea how to "search" for me in local graduation announcements, etc. I feel a certain sense of comfort in knowing that now, surprisingly: it would make me feel angry if I were to find out that my bio-mother had somehow figured out who I was and was viewing my MySpace page or had snuck into the back of my high school graduation ceremony to watch. How dare she do that? What if I figured out who she was and drove to her place of business and watched her walk to her car, just to see if we looked alike? Reunion has to happen with a respectful initial first contact - I'm big on the idea of an intermediary - and without prior sneakiness or a constant vigil in front of a MySpace profile.

What I am trying to say is that it is so difficult for me to understand the impulsive decisions that a bio-mother may make with regards to contacting her bio-child on the Internet - especially if the child is a minor [this is mostly in reference to Chunk's decision]. I agree with Isabo when she said that she would have waited until her bio-son was 25 to contact him - 18, in my opinion, is far too young. I'll be 24 in 3 months and even 24 or 25 seems like "too young" to process an emotional reunion!! I wonder if you can ever really be "ready."

I will sound like my Great-Uncle Tony [who is 86] when I say this, but the age of the Internet and it's prolific use and amazing capacity for constant expansion and new technology has truly opened up an entire "can of worms" in regards to finding people we're looking for - it has positives and negatives for sure.

[browneyes0707]

Originally Posted by agathaj

Browneyes and oceans - My question is: What should a Bmother do in the situation where a AP refuses to let their teenager have contact ie email or even have a relationship or even discuss with their child that a bmother is available for contact? Then the bmother finds their child on Myspace, Facebook etc and is in a dilemma about making contact direct. What should she do? I know most people on this website would say wait until the person involved is 18 then contact them direct. Where as I disagree with that. I do feel 14 is too young, 15 - maybe, 16 plus, yes.
And I want to give APs the heads up (this is not some yukky warning or threat or anything so please don't read it that way because I'm just stating a fact) that even if you tell a first parent that you don't want contact and say no to a photo ie in CMs case, it's a bit pointless because there's probably a 90 percent chance that your teenager has put a lot of information and photos about themselves and your family on the web.
BTW I also have utmost respect for my bchild's APs.

This is exactly the current status of my semi open OA. My daughters mom hid the fact that I was in touch and available for contact for over a year. She had told at first she was waiting to tell her because DD had been so "shocked" by the fact that her birthfather contacted her, and then I think that she just put telling her off until she had no choice and DD snooped and found out herself. As of now, her mom won't allow contact between DD and I, email or otherwise. She said that DD told her she isn't ready and it has to be her call.

What do I do? Nothing. And believe me, it is so hard not to do anything. If I contact her via myspace or e-mail (which I have because my DD left it on a private web album of mine, which is how I know she was snooping) then it violates the trust her mom put in me to respect her wishes. Which in turn disrespects DD. And what if she IS telling the truth and DD DOESN'T want contact? Not all aparents are lying or insecure when they tell birthparents that their children aren't ready. Sometimes they aren't. Some are and are just afraid to admit it. I believe my daughter is not %100 ready because she can't tell her mom that she is. I believe that she told her mom she isn't ready, and I believe that her mom believes that. I did try to address the situation by asking her mom if I could send a card to DD, but even with her mom being an intermediary, she wasn't exactly receptive.

Now the flip side of this is Nicole's point about myspace. I agree with those who said if it is out there on the internet, it's public domain. Do I feel voyeuristic? I did in the beginning, a little less so now because of the fact that if Joe Schmo from Everywheresville can see her, why can't I? Am I obsessively stalking her, no. But I check in from time to time. Her profile is no different than most teens, she doesn't have her exact location or her full name on there, no IM name, no phone, no inappropriate content. She seems to have learned her lesson about talking about her adoption on there like she did when she was younger (and that frightened me, to be honest) My DD knows I am on myspace, so I think to an extent she knows there is a possibility that I could see her. If it bothered her, she could go private (like I am)

But the bottom line is (and this is not a dig on adoptive parents as a whole) parents should be monitoring their teens online. My niece, who is DD's age, had to beg her mom to put up a myspace page, and my SIL monitors it like a hawk to make sure she is and stays private. (Nothing would stop her from adding a stranger, but there is some trust there that she wouldn't do that) There have to be some guidelines and rules about the internet, period. You wouldn't allow your teen to run amock in the "real" world, why would you allow it on the web?

I know DD isn't monitored, because then her mom would know that DD has her birthfather as her friend on myspace, and is therefore a lot more interested in seeing his pictures and developing a relationship than she claims DD to be.

[Oceans]

Isabo: I think you made a great point (about no invisable restraining order). I liked your entire post actually.

Nichole: I totally respect how you feel. Just so you know, I found my son (w/in 24 hours) from my non-id info. You may want to get a copy of yours to see what it says - I requested first names and was given that info. You can probably write a note and ask that you be given the same info that would be given to your bmom. I only suggest so you know how easy it would be for her. I have read it both ways... easy (as in my case) and impossible in others... To be fair, I always had a feeling in my case that the attny and the aparents were friends. I had the attorney's address so I started to search in his area... Turns out they're neighbors.

And another MS hint (from an Aunt)

Lots of parents say "no MySpace" and guess what happens? They get a MS anyway. One of my nieces and nephews did this. I found out from my other niece and now I monitor them. One is too young so he is automatically private but he rarely signs in. The other in no longer private (grrrr) but I monitor. In both cases I have never told my brothers about the page. Why? b/c they would be shut down and I suspect both would start up again - and now I couldn't monitor. I too am a BIG believer in safe internet practices for kids. Treat it with as much seriousness and openess as "safe sex".

I kind of roll my eyes when I hear parents say "my child doesn't have a MS page..."

When it comes to the Internet, bparents are the LEAST of anyone's worries IMO...

[agathaj]

Isabo - thanks for a great post, you made me feel like a normal human being again! Rather than a weirdo stalker birthmother. Bless you.
Nicole - I get the feeling, and I could be wrong - that you're not a mother yet. I think many of your thoughts and feelings will change when you are and perhaps you will understand somewhat. I also recommend you read the Mistress' Daughter by A M Holmes. After she was found by her birthmother Amy did do drivebys etc It is an adoptees account of her reunion. In all the reviews of her book, no one ever wrote that she was a weirdo for doing that but the bmother was considered a stalker for going to one of her readings.

[JustPeachy]

I know that bio-mothers struggle for years with regret and pain and grief for the loss, but I can't comprehend that because they did have a choice. I certainly did not have a choice.

I had a choice, for sure, as no one made me relinquish and it was entirely my decision. But I simply wasn't ready to be on my own and parent at the time. Even though one has a choice and makes the choice to relinquish, it does not mean they won't feel loss or grieve their choice. The two (choice and grief/loss) are not mutually exclusive. Plus, no one can really prepare you for how difficult relinquishment will be after the fact. I had no idea how strongly I'd bond with my child until after I had him. Still, I felt the very best for him (and me) was the adoption plan I had made and I followed through with it. I don't have regrets about the decision, though I've often regretted my circumstances. People have said to me "well it was YOUR decision to place your child" as if I don't have a right to grieve or feel loss because I wasn't forced to relinquish my child. In some ways, the emotions are more difficult because I was the one who made that decision without coersion or manipulation and have to deal with reactions like "OMG how could you give away your own flesh and blood." I cannot say "I didn't want to place my baby, but had no choice, as I was forced." OTOH, I can at least say with confidence that I weighed my options and it was my decision. I can own that.

You did not have a choice in your adoption, but none of us have a choice as to what life circumstances we are born into. In my case, my childhood with bio parents was not too swift. For a long time, I blamed my parents for a lot of my issues, as I had no choice about being born to bio parents who were unhealthy, to say the least. At some point, you have to accept it's just how it is and work with what you have. Parents, whether bio or adoptive, make decisions for babies and children that they have no control over and may not like, that may cause them difficulty or pain. As adults, we have to work through these things and come to terms with them. That's all we can do, as we cannot change the past.

[bumblebeeskies]

Brown,

As you know, I follow your blog. I feel angry FOR YOU at what AM has done. In your post, you talked about respect. You feel like contacting M would be disrespectful to her, because you would no longer be respecting AM's wishes. When I read that, I felt like screaming, "ISN'T RESPECT A TWO WAY STREET"!!? If M really has been wanting to meet her birth parents, which is what it sounds like, I hate to see the day that she finds out that AM has been in contact with you. This is just a hunch, but I have a feeling that it wouldn't matter to AM if M was 16 or 26, that she would still have a problem with it. Many kids WANT to have contact w/ their birth parents, but are afraid to saying anything as they don't want to hurt their aparents. If M really wants contact, I'm not sure that you're doing her any favors by waiting. 16 yo is not a baby. They are capable of dealing with a lot

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by bumblebeeskies

Brown,

As you know, I follow your blog. I feel angry FOR YOU at what AM has done. In your post, you talked about respect. You feel like contacting M would be disrespectful to her, because you would no longer be respecting AM's wishes. When I read that, I felt like screaming, "ISN'T RESPECT A TWO WAY STREET"!!? If M really has been wanting to meet her birth parents, which is what it sounds like, I hate to see the day that she finds out that AM has been in contact with you. This is just a hunch, but I have a feeling that it wouldn't matter to AM if M was 16 or 26, that she would still have a problem with it. Many kids WANT to have contact w/ their birth parents, but are afraid to saying anything as they don't want to hurt their aparents. If M really wants contact, I'm not sure that you're doing her any favors by waiting. 16 yo is not a baby. They are capable of dealing with a lot

Taking a huge chance of totally screwing them up at a crucial time of their lives.

Go ahead....