[thanksgivingmom]

Paige, we answered at the same time, but I too had that question about what language are you supposed to use if you don't have a name??

[Nicole28]

I think I assume that I am a big secret because of the phrasing on non-ID information and the fact that she never disclosed her pregnancy or relinquishment to my biological father. She was well educated and had a high-paying job, so I imagine that she had a certain reputation to maintain.

Again, these are all just assumptions - "gut feelings," if you will.

Or perhaps it is my attempt at protecting myself from the hurt and sadness that would come with knowing that she missed me or spoke about me on a regular basis.

[thanksgivingmom]

Nicole, I can certainly understand and appreciate self-preservation. (((((Nicole)))))

[Mommy24]

Nicole~ You are entitled to your thoughts but I just wanted to give you a snippit of my own story. I didn't "hide out" per say, but I didn't share my pregnancy with anyone other than the birth father of my son. I hid my pregnancy for 9 whole months, took care of myself, made the decision to find an agency and place my unborn child once I found out that my boyfriend didn't want any part of parenting. I wanted the best for my son and I didn't feel I could provide that as a single parent. Anyway, it was only 2 months after I placed that I told my mom that I had given birth and only 6 months before I told the rest of my family and friends. My son has been a topic of conversation in my life for 17 years now and he always will be.

So, maybe she hasn't told anyone and maybe she has but I truly can not imagine not wanting to be able to talk about the child you carried and gave birth to. If she hasn't talked about you to anyone my heart hurts for her.

[Jo Ellen]

I am an adoptee reunited 2 years and 4 months and when I am introduced by my 1st parents I am introduced as their daughter that was raised by adoptive parents. Even though they did not raise me in their home I am their daughter and they are my parents. As I see it every adoptee has two sets of parents whether we know them or not. This is how I see it.

Jo Ellen

[julie23]

I can understand where the confusion would come as to what to call her. I say what ever you feel most comfortable with is what is probably best for your situation. Maybe just her name will due for now until your relationship has a chance to grow into something more friendly/close

i was only reunited for three years... our reunion ended in a very bad way about a year ago.... i don't forsee any future relationship with her. I have an amazing life... with the most spectacular husband and four daughters.... allowing the birthchild in my life again would be suicidal... I will not allow someone in my life who only intends harm to my family and myself... and i do not see her changing. one who has that much hate, anger and rage doesn't change....

Paigeturner.... LOL... very funny... i have similar thoughts, but I don't think I'm as creative you...

Ouch. I think this really hits at my deepest fears regarding my first mother - that she didn't/doesn't love me like a daughter, that I'm just a "genetically linked stranger" to her, that if she met me she might be disappointed and not want to know me. Because I'm not that three-week-old baby anymore that she loved (I believe).

JWM.... before i met my daughter... i loved her... with that deep profound love a mother has for her baby... I was open to growing that love... I wanted to keep loving her... i wanted to love her more.... i wasn't disappointed in her.... i was devastated by how her aparents treated her.... by the pain and suffering she endured.... and I was overwhelmed... before i even saw her, her father told me awful things.... a two hour phone conversation.... he told me that she hated me.... she had never even known my name.... or seen a picture... they had never given her all the things i sent with her... they didn't even tell her I had named her....

she hated me, JWM... she was full of anger, hate and rage.... things hadn't turned out for her like I had always imagined... and even though I wanted to get past it... and i did my very best.... she just wasn't my daughter anymore.... and she certainly never considered me to be her mother.... or of any value... she never thought of me as worthy... i think.... i don't think she even really thought of me as a human being....

i still love her... it's just different... it's guarded. it's no longer optimistic... there isn't any "knowing" her as a daughter.... i know my daughters.... sometimes i think on a cellular level.... i have extraordinary close relationships with them... i don't know.... it has just been a hard journey.... and hopefully yours won't be like that....

Yes, that was a luxury b/c most people in my life had to be convinced by me he actually was....

yes... it was a luxury to call her "daughter" all those years.... and to even think of her as "mine"... "my baby".... "my daughter".... i spent 18 years prior to reunion grieving.... i think.

all alone.

we didn't talk about it in my family. taboo.

what has really infuriated me in reunion is how my mother (yes, the one who wouldn't pitch in a diaper and was going to throw us both out if i kept her)... insists on counting her in the grandchild count now... and how she calls her the "first grandchild"... i think my mom lost my first raised daughter when she did that... she gave her a piece of treasured jewelry... and said "I want you to have it. You're my first granddaughter"... right in front of my first raised...

whew... hard day.

but something in me has shut down. I'm not someone who offers second chances... i just won't. i don't have it in me.

I am quite confident that my biological mother never ever mentions me - - my theory is that after hiding out for 9 months and traveling to a different city to give birth and subsequently relinquishing, she went back to her old life and never, ever mentioned me. I am very sure that she is married & has children but that her husband - and definitely not her children [my half-siblings!] have NO idea about me.

I am curious how you know these things if you are not in a reunion?

we have to be very very careful of the fantasy's we create regarding the babies we have relinquished... and the mothers who made the adoption plan.

i had an amazing fantasy... of my daughters life... i could have explained it to you in great detail... the perfect princess life...

she had a pretty incredible picture of me, too... the homeless baglady... alcoholic... with missing teeth... and probably a drug addict too...

we were both very very surprised....

julie

[Nicole28]

I don't know those things - - I am only assuming. I don't have any other option.

I don't have a stereotypical negative "fantasy" regarding my biological mother. I imagine that she continued in her career as a respiratory therapist...eventually got married and had children...maybe relocated...took family vacations...etc. So I am not making negative generalizations at all; I assume that she has had a fairly "normal" life since my relinquishment. My hope for her is that she is happy.

[Suziebearhugs]

I'm curious...

Maybe you could still consider her "my baby that I loved and carried in my heart for all these years". Do you still grieve and feel loss for that baby?

I understand the reality of who that baby is now is much different than you had ever imagined or hoped for.

But is it still possible to love and grieve for the baby you placed and carried with you all these years, while at the same time feel distant and dissapointed in the angry hurtful stranger that you are now connected to?

Do you see them as different ....or do you now connect the two, the baby you placed with the adult she has now become?

Does that make any sense?

I'm just wondering...has meeting her and going through such a terrible reunion made you feel disconnected towards the child you placed and have loved all these years? Or do you see them as two different individuals? Do you still love and care about the baby you placed? Do you care at all about the stranger that once was that baby? Or is there too much hurt and disspapointment there?

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by paigeturner

ITummy lady = tummy boy
Birth lady = birth kid
Natural lady = nature boy
Carrier = disease
Egg donor/uterus = lump of cells

I can’t imagine anyone referring to “the child I placed” as “Tummy Boy” or “Slide into first, lump-o”….

Oh Paige! Continue to be snarkey. I love this! I think I am going to start calling my son "nature boy". Or "the parasite".

BTW, I call him my son.

[JustPeachy]

Originally Posted by paigeturner

Peachy,

You managed to say what I was trying to with so much eloquence and grace (I always have to add a touch of snark...). Since I don't know his first name it's always difficult. How about Womb Woman? I heard that one once too...

Thank you for that nice compliment. And believe me, I can be snarky too! Sometimes you need a little snark, you know? And sometimes you have to try to find some humor in things.

Womb Woman, now that's a new one! It conjures up images in my mind of some badly conceived (pardon the pun) cartoon superheroine! If I may be snarky for a moment, I think I shall name myself Gestation Gal. Then again, the "gal" part might be too humanizing. How about simply "The Gestator" (is that even a word?)? I could call my son "The Hatchling." OK, now enough of that!! I can't even imagine thinking of him in such a way!!!

Seriously now, with regard to those of you who do not know your children's names, I do not see anything wrong with referring to them as your son or daughter or child when making reference to them. What else would you call them? The only other thing I can think for you to call them is the name you gave them at birth, if you were allowed to name them. If you were to meet in person, I would say to call them whatever they were most comfortable with. I plan to refer to my son by his first name, which I do know. If he is comfortable when we are together with me introducing him to others as my son, I would be honored to do so. Here, and in conversation with others, I will call him my son. I've always referred to him as such.

[RavenSong]

Gestation Gal gets my vote for today's new term. But you're right, the "gal" part might make us seem too human. Thanks for making me laugh, JustPeachy...I really needed it after reading that other thread. It really disturbs me when I read what I consider to be a total lack of respect for another human being. The only time in my life that I have been able to emotionally separate a uterus and ovaries from a human being in my mind was when I took Gross Anatomy (cadaver lab) back in med school.

I wonder how long it would take for one of our boards to get flamed if we were to speak of the "product of conception". Or, as another poster mentioned, the parasite. After all, the fetus does act as a parasite, taking what he needs from his mother's body. And, yes, I said mother. Believe it or not, a woman is a mother while the child is in her womb. And she's a mother when she makes the decision that her child would be better off somewhere else. That is what a parent does...make decisions on behalf of their child's best interest.

[Jackiejdajda]

julie23

i don't recall a discussion on our forum about what we call that now grown baby who grew in our womb....

son? daughter?

I am going to read the thread as soon as I post this..

I call my bson.. my birthson..

Okay I am now reading the thread...

Jackie

[julie23]

I don't know those things - - I am only assuming. I don't have any other option.

I don't have a stereotypical negative "fantasy" regarding my biological mother. I imagine that she continued in her career as a respiratory therapist...eventually got married and had children...maybe relocated...took family vacations...etc. So I am not making negative generalizations at all; I assume that she has had a fairly "normal" life since my relinquishment. My hope for her is that she is happy.

Nicole... i think what i was trying to say is that all assumptions can be dangerous.... and even impair a reunion.... it was earth shattering for me to understand how very very different my daughters upbringing was... compared to my fantasy...

it was devastating..... it took me several years to recover.... to grieve in a new way.... the loss of the dream.

i do think it's dangerous to assume she had a "normal" life...

some of us self-destruct after relinquishing... i did. i spent years binge drinking and "running away" from the reality of living with the adoption plan i was a part of.

some of us shut down.... some of us over achieve...

but i would venture to say, very very few of us can claim a "normal" life after relinquishing...

eventually, yes... eventually, some of us come to terms with things... and move into what may seem "normal" on the surface.... but a single letter or phone call from that grown child initiating a reunion.... well, that can make the house of cards fall down.

even to assume she had more kids... well, i think the statistic is 40% of birthmothers never have anymore kids... some of the more knowledgeable on this forum may have the accurate statistic... please correct me if you do...

anyhow.... all i am suggesting, is to be wary of any assumptions you make regarding her...

suzie.... let's see if i can answer...

I'm curious...

Maybe you could still consider her "my baby that I loved and carried in my heart for all these years". Do you still grieve and feel loss for that baby?


no. i think it was a very sad and painful life experience... but one i have made peace with... at least for now.

I understand the reality of who that baby is now is much different than you had ever imagined or hoped for.

But is it still possible to love and grieve for the baby you placed and carried with you all these years, while at the same time feel distant and dissapointed in the angry hurtful stranger that you are now connected to?

i think it is a different kind of grieving... the loss i suffered by placing her is different than the loss of her in my life by her choice...while i have made peace with the first... i am still working thru the latter... i don't see them as connected...

Do you see them as different ....or do you now connect the two, the baby you placed with the adult she has now become?

i see them as the same... i wish things had turned out differently...but need to learn to live with what is.... not what could have been...

I'm just wondering...has meeting her and going through such a terrible reunion made you feel disconnected towards the child you placed and have loved all these years? Or do you see them as two different individuals? Do you still love and care about the baby you placed? Do you care at all about the stranger that once was that baby? Or is there too much hurt and disspapointment there?


to do what she did... well, yeah... i feel disconnected from her... i also don't feel the need to connect like i once did... mostly to just let things alone...

i have learned to focus on the wonderful life and girls i am raising... it used to puzzle me why i would focus so much energy on her.. when the whole rest of my life was so amazing... i finally have been able to put it in a box.... to focus on my real daughters.... and value and appreciate them... not what i don't have...

do i love her? i guess so...

mostly, i am here now because i am raising an adopted daughter.... and i don't want to screw her up.... it drives me to understand adoption.... to try to understand what went wrong for my placed daughter

Womb Woman, now that's a new one! It conjures up images in my mind of some badly conceived (pardon the pun) cartoon superheroine! If I may be snarky for a moment, I think I shall name myself Gestation Gal. Then again, the "gal" part might be too humanizing. How about simply "The Gestator" (is that even a word?)? I could call my son "The Hatchling." OK, now enough of that!! I can't even imagine thinking of him in such a way!!!

back to "parasite"...... what would that make me?? the host animal?? there you go.... take away humanity all together...

this would be a name my daughters adoptive mother would like... they have treated me like an animal from the day they took my daughter.... and that is how they have taught her to treat me...

an animal. not worthy of compassion... not worthy, period.

an animal... no need to consider my feelings... because animals don't have them...

no need to offer respect.... or kindness....

fortunately, i have learned my lessons well... my daughters birthmother will NEVER be treated like this... we probably won't even use the term "birthmother" with her... just "mother"... or "mom"...

julie

[Jackiejdajda]

Nicole28

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