[Mommy24]

Originally Posted by belleinblue1978

Sadly though, not all adoptive parents are like the ones here. The ones here for the most part are trying to learn and want a good relationship.

Think about all the adoptive parents that don't post here. There are lots and lots. Sadly without good counseling and support they may not be able to or want to handle open adoption for whatever reason.

It also almost feels, and maybe I am just overly sensitive, that some adoptive parents are just sure that first parents will do something to screw up. I wouldn't dream of posting pictures, I don't drink except socially, I don't use drugs, I don't do that stuff. But like I said sometimes it feels like it is almost expected that no matter what kind of person I am my child is going to need to be protected from me.

My son was my first priority when I made an adoption plan for him. If his parents felt anything less than that, then they would be breaking every trust I placed in them.

It is so true that not all adoptive parents are like the wonderful adoptive parents we have here at A.com, however unfortunately the sad truth is there are so many birth mom's out there that give us good ones a bad name as well.

Think of ALL the birth parents that aren't here trying to get educated as well? They are the reason it is still believed today that all birth mom's are drug addicted, good for nothing people. It is sad, but so true. It is unfortunate that we DO have birth parents out there that DON'T have their bchildren's best interest at heart, it is unfortunate that there are aparents out there that let their insecurities get the best of them.

My point is, we don't live in a perfect world and I don't think this is just an "Aparent" issue, I personally would like to see less focus on how awful either side is and more focus on how we can help the everyone see that in the end it is really ONLY about the children involved.

[belleinblue1978]

I don't think I ever said that all first parents were great. There are plenty of them out there that are crappy. I know a few. But that wasn't what we were talking about and there were a few comments about ALL adoptive parents this and all adoptive parents that.

[Mommy24]

I thought we were discussing fears, compassion and how reading other forums on the site can add or take away from our feelings. I also thought we had progressed in the discussion and not just talking about one single issue. I apologize if I am seeing it wrong
and for what it is worth, you didn't say that ALL birthparents were great, I just wanted to point out that while there are many aparents out there that aren't what we would hope for them to be, there are just as many bparents out there not living the life we would like to see them living as well.

I know some crappy aparents, infact, on a bad day ask me what I think about my son's parents. But in the last 10 years I have come to realize that the reason's for their actions had nothing to do with me and everything to do with the horror stories of birthmoms doing the very things we are trying to convince others to be untrue. So while I don't condone aparents who are doing wrong, I do believe that we as birthmom's need to continue educating ourselves on doing right. I personally cringe when I hear on these forums of birth mom's who had posted pics of their bchildren on their myspaces, without permission, who contact their bchildren without permission, all of these things affect me as a birth mom. They have affected me, it scared the beejeebers out of my son's parents, enough so that they cut contact, was it right? No, do I understand it? Sure.

Again, I was just making a point that while we are pointing fingers, we have to point them on both sides, we could all use a little more compassion IMO

[lonni]

"Think of ALL the birth parents that aren't here trying to get educated as well? They are the reason it is still believed today that all birth mom's are drug addicted, good for nothing people. It is sad, but so true" said mommy 24

Can you please explain this comment? Are you saying that it is 100% the non forum educated natural parent's fault for all adoptions problems?

[Mommy24]

No, of course not...just like it's not all the non forum aparent's fault out there for the other half of the adoption problems. Think you missed the boat a bit on my post, let me know if you need more clarification

[lonni]

Julie, I think there are just some APS that do not believe 100% that open adoption is beneficial to the child and are kind of sticking their toe in the water. Then there are the adoptee's who say only closed is good. So when something makes them skiddish (be it fear or whatever) they pull out their toe.(the adoptee opinion would make them feel it is okay)
I also think there are some emotions we Amommies Adaddies (all parents really)have that are just so primal, that we can not rationalize them as merely "fear based" and sometimes we mis~identify the "enemy". We "react" immediately to the percieved "threat" and our instincts override our ability to self observe.IMO
Can someone please proof read this? Is it offensive?

[lonni]

Originally Posted by Mommy24

No, of course not...just like it's not all the non forum aparent's fault out there for the other half of the adoption problems. Think you missed the boat a bit on my post, let me know if you need more clarification

No, that's okay. I don't get it actually, but it does not matter. I will just stick to the op and try to not get confused by reading all the posts. I probably shouldn't have posted. In fact, I am done now for awhile. I should have gotten the message yesterday.
Thanks though and have a great day.

[BethanyB]

As an aparent myself, I sometimes get the feeling that there are some aparents who want to close the relationship because they are not comfortable. It appears as though one thing happens and they want to cut all ties. Why not make your feelings known and then give the other person a chance? And this is not ALL aparents but I have come across a few of these over the years.

I think open adoptions should be enforceable by law. I will never understand how hard it is to place a child for adoption but I can imagine it. And then to place a child thinking you would see them for the rest of their lives and then only to be cut out for any reason aparents consider appropriate? That would kill me.

Just some thoughts.

[julie23]

great discussion... thanks...

you are right. this is a place to vent.... i have certainly used it as such regarding my daughters TIDNR* parents... i do forget to keep that in mind... it is also a place to work out our thoughts... that is exactly what i use it for... and forget that others do as well...

in the bigger picture... my original post certainly was NOT about all adoptive parents.... I would not be pursuing adopting right now had it not been for meeting so many amazing adoptive mothers on these forums.... for me, these wonderful people showed me the good side of adoption.... and how it can be a good and loving option.

Also, i do agree not all birthparents are educated, mature responsible individuals.... when they place. from that point on, though, i think a lot of us start growing up.... (NOT ALL).. and we start maturing... and we start learning.... it is a long process... but i hate to be shoved into the "birthmother" box... of the person i was 22 years ago... just like the baby grows up, so does the birthmother...

most of us relinquished our parental rights for our child to have a better life... not to disrupt our childs life...

Adoptive parent fear is a huge trigger for me... my daughters adoptive parents used "fear" and "being busy" with why they failed to send pictures and updates... like they had promised. These were people that didn't even meet me... that knew nothing about me... to me, that is ridiculous... they were afraid of something that they put on me... not even real or justified fears....

also, i come from a different perspective than most, i think... about what is in the best interest of the child... I divorced my first husband when my daughter was 1.5 years old... what followed for the next 17 years, has been allowing her to go visit him once a year for 1 -3 weeks... depending on schedules.

I always allowed her to go.... even though he had a totally different lifestyle than we did... and when she came home and "debriefed"... she would tell me so many awful things over the years.... from "A's tires got slashed and there was a note saying "stay away from my husband".... to "A got really drunk and peed her pants and my dad tried to get them off of her.. and she was cussing and screaming".... and i have plenty more...

but i always believed that knowing her dad was better than not....

i always believed that she had a right to know the good, the bad and the ugly...

(certainly, he did not give up his parental rights.. this was divorce.... not adoption. but i have the same attitude towards our sons birthmother.)

I never said anything bad about him... i always told her how wonderful it was that she got to experience two totally different lifestyles... and she got to see different values....

No matter what she was exposed to by her father, she has come out beautifully... she embraces our value system.. and lifestyle.. she wants to go to college.. she's an excellent student... she's really quite amazing.. She has made the choice to terminate her relationship with her dad at this point... and even though that's her choice to make, I still encourage her to be compassionate... to have mercy... to be kind... to be loving...

Julie, I think there are just some APS that do not believe 100% that open adoption is beneficial to the child and are kind of sticking their toe in the water. Then there are the adoptee's who say only closed is good. So when something makes them skiddish (be it fear or whatever) they pull out their toe.
I also think there are some emotions we Amommies Adaddies (all parents really)have that are just so primal, that we can not rationalize them as merely "fear based" and sometimes we mis~identify the "enemy". We "react" immediately to the percieved "threat" and our instincts override our ability to self observe.IMO
Can someone please proof read this? Is it offensive?

adoption is not well understood by people outside of it... and even some getting into it.... (from birthmother to adoptive parent).... i am finding this... because even though as a birthmother i do not advertise my status in the adoption triad... we are certainly advertising the fact that we are about to adopt... because in two weeks we are going to show up at church toting a baby... and i am discovering first hand what "everyone else out there" thinks....

and i think that is my point lonni... are birthmothers really a threat? why do some say "yes' and some say "no"...

when i listened to two birthmothers tell their story... and the woman asked "is there any advice you would like to give to the adoptive parents?"

both of them answered "Don't be afraid us"

for me, that would be my answer too... don't be afraid us.... you are the mother and father... i remember thinking about my daughters parents, and not understanding their fear.. and the thing that kept going through my mind was "they have the baby... what else do they have to fear??"

i suspect others have posted at the same time i have... will try to catch up with it...

thanks for sharing...
j

[BrandyHagz]

I am personally "pro-whatever-works-for-the-situation" and sometimes, that's not OA and sometimes it is.

I think you have to dig down deep and find out what you really want and in the end, that decision should be respected.

It must be very difficult, as a parent (both adoptive and birth) to make a life long decision like OA (or closed) knowing that when your child grows up they could hate you for whatever decision you chose. I know it was for me and I can't count the number of times I've personally said, "If she says she doesn't want contact, that's it - we cut contact, this is about her!".

Sadly, I've had to make some difficult decisions about my daughters OA over the last four months...it's been hard, but needed.

We (the adoption community) spend so much time pointing fingers at the other side that we don't take the time to realize the three fingers pointing back at ourselves.

In adoption, there is no 'right or wrong' answer. You can only do what you feel is right for you...and I'd like to think, of all the couples who suddenly close adoptions due to 'lifestyle' (ironically, the same lifestyle that made them parents...) are doing it because they felt they just weren't equipped to deal with it...and honestly, these are likely the same people that, given the chance, never would have chosen OA to start with...but felt pressure by an agency or other professional.

I'm a big supporter of taking the time to read, research and get to know the relationship before you commit. It is impossible (from either side) to make this life long commitment without bumps, if you've not taken the time to get to know each other and foster a relationship not bound by adoption.

Personally - for failed OA's - I blame agencies, not the parents themselves. Adoption is a life long commitment and there should be support to last a lifetime - but there isn't.

There will always be ‘bad apples’ – the problem with ‘bad apples’ (from either side) is that it’s all we ever really hear about…so society as a whole (and usually, members of the triad who have very little exposure (I resist using education)) tends to judge based on the ‘most known’ – the stories in the news…

If only the stereotypes didn’t exist and birth parents felt comfortable wearing their position like a badge or adoptive parents didn’t feel they were being judged by the method in which they created their family or adoptees weren’t labeled “bastards” (or unwanted) by society – we’d likely be surprised at the folks around us touched by adoption.

For example: my neighbor overheard me on the phone last month talking about adoption and approached me (I’d never talked to her in my life) in my front yard a few days later. She said she’d been ‘stalking her front window’ because she wanted to talk to me about adoption. She was a birth mother – married now and her husband had no idea. Her daughter (closed) was 7 and she said she hadn’t talked to ANYONE (agency, parents, family, friends, husband) in SEVEN YEARS about how she felt – and hearing me talk so openly about my experience opened up a flood of emotion she wasn’t equipped to deal with.

This is still the reality of our society. That a woman has to hide her pregnancy, the birth and adoption of her child from EVERYONE (including her church!) and seek NO support/guidance from anyone…for fear of being labeled and shunned.

Until we (as a community) stop standing in judgment of others – it will always be like this.

I like to think of things with a realistic perspective. The fact that my daughters mother told me, point blank, she was one condom break away from an unplanned pregnancy herself really put things in perspective for me.

Anyone who has ever had sex, protected or not, prior to being prepared to be a mother (and that includes married folks) does not have a right to stand in judgment of me. Period.

Not getting pregnant before you were ready is ‘luck of the draw’ and it makes you no better than I am…simply because I happened to be ‘unlucky’.

Yak – sorry about the novella…

[thanksgivingmom]

Please don't apologize Brandy, I really appreciated your "novella."

I KNOW that I wasn't prepared for open adoption when I entered into it at the request and encouragement of DD's Mom and her agency. Once I agreed the agency offered me NO support, they would merely be the contact point for us to go through until we met eleven months later.

Everything I have learned about OA I have learned from these forums or I have taught myself (books, research, etc.) I too think that agencies have to make it more of a priority to educate both aparents and bparents about OA before placement AND to continue after placement.

Also, I could NOT AGREE MORE with your statement that "Anyone who has ever had sex, protected or not, prior to being prepared to be a mother (and that includes married folks) does not have a right to stand in judgement of me. Period."

ABSOLUTELY. 100%

[belleinblue1978]

Originally Posted by Mommy24

I thought we were discussing fears, compassion and how reading other forums on the site can add or take away from our feelings. I also thought we had progressed in the discussion and not just talking about one single issue. I apologize if I am seeing it wrong
and for what it is worth, you didn't say that ALL birthparents were great, I just wanted to point out that while there are many aparents out there that aren't what we would hope for them to be, there are just as many bparents out there not living the life we would like to see them living as well.

I know some crappy aparents, infact, on a bad day ask me what I think about my son's parents. But in the last 10 years I have come to realize that the reason's for their actions had nothing to do with me and everything to do with the horror stories of birthmoms doing the very things we are trying to convince others to be untrue. So while I don't condone aparents who are doing wrong, I do believe that we as birthmom's need to continue educating ourselves on doing right. I personally cringe when I hear on these forums of birth mom's who had posted pics of their bchildren on their myspaces, without permission, who contact their bchildren without permission, all of these things affect me as a birth mom. They have affected me, it scared the beejeebers out of my son's parents, enough so that they cut contact, was it right? No, do I understand it? Sure.

Again, I was just making a point that while we are pointing fingers, we have to point them on both sides, we could all use a little more compassion IMO

Here's the deal with me, and I'm saying only me now.

I work with kids that are in a treatment facility for their bevahaviours. They have been sent there by the courts for committing various crimes. By the time they get to us they have usually been through several other programs that have failed to rehabilitate them.

I see the result of parenting on the part of first parents all the time (alot of these kids have been removed). We sent a kid back to a mom that had her electricity turned for a week. That girl calls me all the time because she has nothing with that woman.

I REALLY do understand that there are horrible parents everywhere and that includes women that make voluntary adoption plans for their children as well.

Yes I was adressing one part of the conversation and maybe venting a little too. Remember I'm the one that gets talked about in my little town of 2500 b/c my bf's former mother in law found out about my kiddo and she tells people about me in her grocery store line. I am the one that gets assumed to be so problem ridden that I can barely function in polite society. I know exactly the effects that one or two bad apples can create.

Not a single one of us on any side of the triad is perfect. Adopted people aren't all deranged like many people assume us to be. Firstmoms aren't all angels or sinners. Adoptive parents aren't all babystealers or saints.

Remember, I grew up with the best adoptive parents ever, my mom and dad. I really do believe there are great adoptive parents out there.