[Blessed2x.]

I have been wrestling with the idea lately if it is morally wrong to "pullback" permanently from one's birthfamily once you have entered each other's lives. By pullback, I mean cutting them completely out of your life. (Now I'm not including this to mean with individuals who are dangerous or abusive in some way - regular people with their good/annoying traits).

Please understand I am truly pondering this. I don't have a set opinion. I have tried to imagine myself totally cutting out any of my relatives because the rela tionship is challenging. I can't imagine this. I have also wondered if it is cruel to enter then exit your birthfamilies' lives. It seems that some sort of contact, even minimal, could be possible. Relationships involve commitment, especially during tough times...

This is a difficult post for me to make. I do not want to offend anyone. I am trying to get my mind around this wonderful process of reunion. My ponderings above are truly just that...I welcome any thoughts!

[RavenSong]

I think what you're describing isn't "pullback", but rather "disengagement". And it really hits home with me right now. I don't know if it is morally wrong, but I can tell you that it can be devastating. And cruel....

I have spent the past 18 years developing a strong relationship with my son. The first few years were very difficult because I had to deal with his crystal methamphetamine addiction and adolescent angst. It wasn't easy, but we both survived. He has now been clean and sober for about 12 years (hopefully, he's still clean).

This year he decided to cut me off completely. He has also cut off my brother, which was surprising because they always had a great relationship. Interestingly enough, DS has maintained his relationship with my brother's ex-wife, who is a drug addict, and her adult daughter from a previous marriage. But DS has totally cut off anybody with actual blood ties.

To say this has been difficult is a gross understatement. I have been totally devastated. I know logically that nobody ever "forces" somebody else to ever feel a certain way. We all must take responsibility for our own feelings, emotions, and reactions. But it's been really hard for me to deal with this.

I have always been a person who places a lot of value on long-term relationships, even when there are disagreements or challenges. I still retain my relationships with friends I've had since childhood, adolescence, and college years, for example. At times, there have been deep divisions within my own family, but we have always worked them out eventually. There is no way I would ever just sever the bonds with family members or friends.

So it's a strange experience for me to have someone I love just throw me out of his life. And, frankly, I'm angry and hurt. This whole thing was caused by a stupid miscommunication and/or misunderstanding on both of our parts. I'm not perfect ~ I'm human, too. I just don't understand why he's not willing to learn the art of forgiveness, especially over simple human imperfections.

What really gets to me is that I know him, and I know that he will come back one day, expecting me to throw the door wide open for him. I don't think he understands that that's not how life works. Don't get me wrong ~ I will always leave the door open, but I will never have that trust and hope again.

I feel like I've had to surrender him all over again. The first time was a killer, but the second time is a hundred times worse. Every day when I wake up, I think of him; and every day I feel like I'm giving him up once again.

Morally wrong? Maybe, maybe not. Cruel? Yes....

[Jackiejdajda]

By pullback, I mean cutting them completely out of your life.

I have read in my books that cutting a person off does not work..this because when we do 'cut off' that person is still very much in our lives..
The guilt of having cut off or the worry that they may appear again.. Or the guilt that we did the cut off..

I looked through my books to find that reference about cut off.. and I ended up with John Bradshaw and his book Healing the Shame that Binds You.. page 161..

He wrote..

Each of us needs to create his own Bill of Rights.. We need to have total permission for our rights. Manual Smith sets forth the following Lists of Rights. You may add your own to these.

….. You have the right to judge your own behavior, thoughts, emotions, and to take responsibility for their initiation and consequences upon yourself.

….. You have the right to offer no reason or excuses for justifying your behavior.

….. You have the right to judge if you are responsible for judging other peoples problems.

….. You have the right to change your mind.

….. You have the right to make mistakes and be responsible for them.

….. You have the right to say, “I don’t know.”

….. You have the right to be independent of the goodwill of others before coping with them.

….. You have to the right to be illogical in making decisions.

….. You have the right to say, “I don’t understand.”

….. You have the right to say, “I don’t care.”


When I Say No, I Feel Guilty. (<title of book)

I went in search of this book and found this web site.. and this quote..

Smith, Manuel J., Ph.D. -- When I Say No, I Feel Guilty

(I hope this link is okay)

Each of us, at times, gets into situations that confuse us. A friend, for example, asks you to pick up his aunt flying in from Pascagoula at 6:00 p.m. The last thing in the world that you relish is fighting the traffic rush to the airport and then trying to make bumper-to-bumper conversation with someone you know zero about, without giving her the idea you wish she had stayed in Mississippi. You rationalize with: "Well, a friend's a friend. He would do the same thing for me." But other nagging thoughts intrude: "But I never asked him to pick up anybody for me. I always did it myself. Harry never told me why he couldn't pick her up. How come his wife couldn't do it?"

In situations like this, all of us feel like saying: "When I say 'No,' I feel guilty, but if I say 'Yes,' I'll hate myself." When you say this to yourself, your real desires are in conflict with your childhood training and you find yourself without cues that would prompt you in coping with this conflict. What can you say? If I say "No," will my friend feel hurt or rejected? Will he not like me anymore? Will he think I am self-centered, or at least not very nice? If I don't do it, am I an uncaring son of a *****? If I say "Yes," how come I'm always doing these things? Am I a patsy? Or is this the price I have to pay to live with other people?

These internal questions on how to cope are triggered by an external conflict between ourselves and another person. We want to do one thing, and our friend, neighbor, or relative assumes, hopes, expects, wishes, or even manipulates us into doing something else. The internal crisis comes about because you'd like to do what you want but are afraid that your friend may think what you want is wrong; you may be making a mistake; you may hurt his feelings and he may reject you because you did what you wanted; perhaps you fear that your reasons for doing what you want are not "reasonable" enough (you don't have a broken leg and the Feds aren't looking for you so why can't you go to the airport?). Consequently, when you try to do what you want, you also allow other people to make you feel ignorant, anxious, or guilty; the three fearful emotional states you were trained as a child to feel when you don't do what someone else wants you to do. The problem in resolving this conflict is that the trained manipulated part of us accepts without question that someone else "should" be able to control us psychologically by making us feel these ways. With the innately assertive part of us suppressed by our training in childhood, we respond by countermanipulation to the frustration of being manipulated. Manipulative coping, however, is an unproductive cycle. Manipulatively dealing with another adult is not like manipulatively dealing with a little child. If you manipulate adults through their emotions and beliefs, they can countermanipulate you in the same way. If you again countermanipulate, so can they, and so on.


When I Say No, I Feel Guilty
pages 24-25


Add reunion to this and you got problems.. IMO

Jackie

[Jackiejdajda]

Interestingly enough, DS has maintained his relationship with my brother's ex-wife, who is a drug addict,

Raven.. that is a red flag to me..
I may be totally wrong.. but it stuck out in your post..

Jackie

[Blessed2x.]

[quote=RavenSong]I think what you're describing isn't "pullback", but rather "disengagement". And it really hits home with me right now. I don't know if it is morally wrong, but I can tell you that it can be devastating. And cruel....

It does seem cruel, RavenSong. Thanks for your thoughts,too, Jackie!

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

Interestingly enough, DS has maintained his relationship with my brother's ex-wife, who is a drug addict,...

Originally Posted by Jackiejdajda

Raven.. that is a red flag to me..
I may be totally wrong.. but it stuck out in your post..

Jackie

Jackie, thanks for your response. I think you and I are thinking along the same lines. In the deep darkness of night, I've been wondering if DS could be using again. Some of his current behavior toward me is exactly what it was like back in his active drug-addict years. And I know that he quit going to meetings years ago.... My brother has also been wondering about this possibility.

[Jackiejdajda]

RavenSong

Some of his current behavior toward me is exactly what it was like back in his active drug-addict years. And I know that he quit going to meetings years ago....

I know you go right back to the place you left off.. right back to wanting to get totally high.. and gone.. They warn a person about it in AA..
But then maybe he is just sorting something.. Can you find out?

Jackie

[doinit4me]

Hi Blessed,
I read your post and was just wondering why? You indicated

By pullback, I mean cutting them completely out of your life. (Now I'm not including this to mean with individuals who are dangerous or abusive in some way - regular people with their good/annoying traits).

I can understand pulling back if they posed a threat to you in some way but if they are just regular people with good/annoying traits, then why?

There is no set rule stating that you have to estabilish an actual parent/child relationship. I think that if you severed it completely, you might regret it. It may not be exactly what you'd hoped for but it is what it is which is your family. Give yourself some time. Try to keep the lines of communication open. (I'm sorry but I'm assuming that you are the adoptee? If I'm wrong I apologize.)

I'm an adoptee just starting the search. If I find my bfamily, get to know them and they "pull back" without warning, I would feel that it had something to do with me. If after finding my bfamily I find that they want more from me than I can give at this time, I would try to let them know that I'm uncomfortable with it so that maybe we could still have a relationship and hope that they understand that I'm not rejecting them. In either case, by pulling back, someone is going to get hurt unless there is some sort of communication explaining "why" there is a need to pull back.

I hope that I haven't overstepped my bounds or talked out of turn. I just feel that whatever you decide to do you need to communicate the reasons why. It may not change the outcome but it could help ease any additional feeling of rejection.

Hopefully this has helped a little.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Sincerely,
Lori

[Blessed2x.]

Hi Lori,

Thanks for your response! I am an adoptee, late thirties (how did that happen?!), and have been exchanging letters with my bmom through an intermediary the last 8 months or so. I have been very happy with our exchange. We are both wanting to go slowly.

I should clarify my post - I am not considering any "disengagement" or pull-backs, nor is my bmom, as far as I know - things actually seem to be going well...I am wondering about this in general. I have been surprised that sometimes people seem to make decisions to totally cut out their birthfamilies when things are difficult.

For me personally, I am coming to the conclusion that entering into a relationship with my bmom is a committment. It seems unkind to enter her life then "drop" her someday. So I plan, if she also wants, to find a place in my life for her and keep her.

There's also probably a little bit of fear in me that once the novelty of the new "kid" wears off, that perhaps I'll be dropped. Or that if they get to really know me, they'll find me annoying - there's not that "cushion" that comes from a lifetime of knowing and loving someone. Perhaps they'll not like that I am such a big reader, or so curious, or cheerful, or private. This is who I am, but they might not like it...

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by Blessed2x.

For me personally, I am coming to the conclusion that entering into a relationship with my bmom is a committment. It seems unkind to enter her life then "drop" her someday. So I plan, if she also wants, to find a place in my life for her and keep her.

Hi, Blessed2x...

I LOVE the way you are approaching your reunion with your bmom. You are absolutely correct ~ it is a commitment on both of your part's. When you stop and think about the meaning of relationships, any relationship, there is always some form of commitment. Reciprocity, "give and take", patience, trust, hope, love...these are the values I cherish in all my relationships with both family members and friends.

Like any relationship, there will be ups and downs, even challenges. But honesty, good communication skills, and love can overcome the "down" times.

I know there are some adoptees who just want to obtain their medical and social histories, maybe meet their bmom once or twice. And that's fine, as long as they are honest with themselves and with their birthmothers. But I have trouble with the idea of either an adoptee or birthmother developing a personal relationship and then cutting off all contact. That is so hurtful, I can't even begin to describe how it feels. Devastating, overwhelming, cruel, those are the closest words I think of. I do completely understand when disengagement occurs in a relationship for extreme reasons, like emotional and/or verbal abuse, addictions, alcoholism, or complete dysfunction and chaos. I'm only referring to adoptees who suddenly, and without warning, decide to permanently sever a long-time relationship they have had with their bmoms.

As you know from my previous posts, my son has requested I never contact him again, after almost 18 years of being reunited with him. He was 18 years old when we reunited, at which time I moved back to my hometown so we could develop our relationship. He will be 36 years old this coming March. So basically, he spent the first half of his life without me, and the second half of his life with me in it. His ability to totally cut me off without any apparent feeling frightens me. To be honest, I've known for a long time that DS has a propensity to cut people out of his life, especially if he feels hurt or disrespected. He has an occasional cold streak in him that I often attribute to his adoption, especially after reading The Primal Wound by Nancy Verrier. I'm sure he feels in his own head that he's perfectly justified for ending our relationship. But I sure wish he'd share it with me. After 18 years, I do think he owes me that much respect.

Originally Posted by Blessed2x

There's also probably a little bit of fear in me that once the novelty of the new "kid" wears off, that perhaps I'll be dropped. Or that if they get to really know me, they'll find me annoying - there's not that "cushion" that comes from a lifetime of knowing and loving someone. Perhaps they'll not like that I am such a big reader, or so curious, or cheerful, or private. This is who I am, but they might not like it...

I think we all have the same fears going into reunion. You'll be surprised at how many of your "annoying" traits actually are traits and characteristics shared with other members of your birth family. Just be yourself, and you'll be fine. Believe me, your bmom isn't going to drop you once the "novelty" wears off! Sure, there are going to be ups and downs in your relationship with her ~ there are good times and bad times in ALL relationships. But with honesty and talking things out (or writing them, even!), you'll develop a strong relationship that can sustain the hard times.

PS: I'm sorry I rambled on so long....

[doinit4me]

Hi Blessed,
I can really understand what your fears are! I have the same ones too. You just have to take it one step at a time. Give yourself time to get to know your mom and let her get to know you too. I think taking it slow is a great idea, just make sure you don't take it too slowly. What I mean is you can also give the wrong impression by standing back.

It is a committment. It's no different than what our aparents did when they adopted us. When we decided to take this journey we decided that we were in it. Good, bad or ugly. As unsure as we are that they will find some fault with us that will turn them away, I'm sure they have the same fears. What if I'm not what they'd hoped for? What if I ask too many questions? What if they think I'm too pushy? This is a person who gave birth to you but doesn't know you and visa versa. Because we are adopted and have that issue of being let go, it's easy for us to imagine it happening again. I think that is why we are afraid. Like you said,

Perhaps they'll not like that I am such a big reader, or so curious, or cheerful, or private.

I think we are all afraid to a degree. Adoptees, bmoms, amoms, family. Everyone is afraid that they might lose something. Adoptee's worry about being rejected again. Sometimes by their bmoms, sometimes by their amoms. Bmoms may fear losing their child again if they do or say something wrong. Amoms may fear that they will lose the child that they raised or that they won't be needed anymore now that the "real" mom has been found. Spouses may worry that we will become consumed with this and "change" into someone else. (A strong person may become insecure by the emotions that they are feeling. An insecure person might feel "stronger" or more determined.)

Regardless of the outcome, you made the decision to look. Let her know how much committment you can give her. Let her be in your life to whatever degree you feel comfortable with but explain to her the "why" behind it. Hopefully she will understand and give you whatever space you may need. The same has to go for us too. We have to understand that 'space" doesn't necessarily mean "rejection". We just have to realize that this road we're on isn't smooth. It's full of bumps and turns and occassionally, deadends. Just take each day as it comes, enjoy the sunshine and watch for the flowers after the rain.
Sincerely,
Lori

[birdeez4]

I'm not sure about morally wrong, but I do think it might be a bit short-sighted. The reason is that although you might think that you will *never* want anything more to do with them, in 1 year or 5 year or 10 years you might feel differently and want to get back in touch. And the 'yo-yo' effect (going in and out of you bp's life) IS DEVASTATING. I am the b-sibling to an adoption relationship; my mother gave up a child to adoption a long time ago. Seventeen years ago, the a-child found her and wanted a relationship. Then she decided that it was 'too much to handle' and dropped out. And then wanted back in, then drops out, then comes back, then drops out. Each time she drops out, I bear the brunt of my mothers heartache. (BTW, she's back now)

So if I was giving advice, and the only problem in the relationship was annoying habits (no toxic relationship), I would recommend going down to an occasional card or an agreement to talk maybe 2x a year. But to sever all contact can backfire if later you want to re-establish contact.

[julie23]

hello b,

interesting question. when my relinquished daughter cut me and her sisters out of her life, it was really very devastating.. initially.

the ripples of her choice still come and go into our lives... when one of the little ones is sad because her big sister has chosen to not be a part of our lives.... or some other emotion pops up...

you have had some great responses here... most of them articulate a lot of what i think....

i suppose i would wonder about the person who makes such a choice... obviously, the choice to disengage when there is not anything abusive happening, is probably indicative of other issues... is it morally wrong?

i don't know. i suppose it depends on your morals. Clearly, my daughter and her adoptive parents do not value me or my children as human beings. Her parents view me as "non-human".... one without feelings... one not due any respect or consideration.... they have proved that time and time again... i am unworthy of even keeping a promise...

the initial pain was devastating. it was brutal... it was as if i had lost her again... a second time. and my fellow birthmothers here know how awful that would be... as if the first time wasn't bad enough... and i think it makes it worse when it is done by our birth childs own hand...

but it does fade... life does go on... i am raising three fantastic daughters... and this situation of being a birthmother is a relatively small portion of my life...

sooo... i move forward. i look at the positive... i live my life to the best of my ability... and i pay attention to the world around me...

i don't think i could have done that, though... had i not already sorted so much on this darn journey of adoption.

i don't think it's morally wrong. i just think it's rude, self-centered, selfish, shallow, unjust, cruel, unkind, and when it is done with the absolute intention to hurt and cause pain (as in my case), it is just wrong.

julie

[Blessed2x.]

Julie,

You're right...there have been great responses! I really appreciate the willingness of people to wrestle with tough issues here. So much about reunion is untested waters, the discussions help me sort it out. Thank you for your response!

b

[keds]

Julie - your comment "this situation of being a birthmother is a relatively small portion of my life" rang true for me. I have spent the majority of my life where being a bmom was a HUGE part of who and what I am. That is no longer the case.

As for reunions and pullback - I find if my bson hasn't responded or I am the one calling/e-mailing it is because I have more time on my hands. He is young, finding his way in the world and I stop myself and think, geez when I was 25 or so did I call my mom every week? No, so why should I expect more contact in reunion! Although, I agree that there is a commitment to acknowledge the other person's feelings when contact/reunion is commenced. There are no hard and fast rules but I think those of common decency and etiquette prevail in that if you are taking a step back, or just entering a particular busy time of the year to let the other person know.