[Jannyroo]

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, it has. My son phoned me tonight, late. That usually alerts me to the fact he's been drinking and he had. He was upset because a friend he'd been close to, that had come back on the scene after 6 years apart hadn't replied to his daily emails and phone calls for over a month, so he sent him a really nasty email. He read it out and I was shocked, but I didn't respond. I just kept calm.

He can't see the double standards that he's living, but said that if his friend couldn't be a friend, then that was it. The email had so many bad swear words, that I'd asked him to say 'blank' whenever he got to one, but he'd give me a clue as to what it said - and it was really bad. I can't believe that he can be so obnoxious and be so indifferent to how he behaves with people Swanning about in life. When he's 'sober' and not floating on drugs, he tells me how unhappy he is with his life the way it is.

Swearing is not something that I practise, but I'm not sanctimonious either, I just ask him to show some respect - that I dont like them. He does usually show that respect, but in the early days I had to work hard to get it. What worried me most after he'd totally blown any chance of keeping this friend is that he thought it was because he'd told him that he was chuffing smack whilst working away from home.

I asked him when the last time was that he had cocaine, he said about 3 weeks before that, so its possible that this has been ongoing and he's just not told me. But he's been earning a lot of money in the past few months and correspondingly, he has reduced contact with me, but insisting on contact with his friend who I know he thinks an enormous amount of. However, I do know that he trusts me to talk to me about this stuff and also that I do not tolerate fools lightly but he thinks he's reflecting my attitude by being this way with his friend. I had to correct him on the approach, but nothing was sinking in, so I decided best left alone.

I chose not to do anything but listen to him initially and then suggest that it was not the way to keep friends. But whatever was said, he matched it, so I didn't go anywhere in the end, except to bed and wish him a good nights sleep. I thought the scare of ecstasy whilst he was in hospital last December had put him off drugs, apparently not. I know that he confided in me a week before this happened last December and felt he could talk to me, comforted by my voice. However, when he came out of hospital and phoned me to tell me he nearly died, I didn't give him the response he wanted, i froze actually, and he slammed the phone down on me, and I remember it as if it was yesterday, it was a cruel 6 weeks that he left me to it. Christmas is a remarkably emotional time whatever your faith and it cut me to the quick that he just wasn't interested in communicating - at all. I sent him emails but he ignored them. It was mid January before a card sent in the post coaxed him to get in touch. He can't see how cruel he is, but is quick to lambast a friend that didn't match his 'standards' of friendship.

This time, I just said that I didn't want to carry on the conversation because he was being argumentative about discussing friendships, his 'tell as it as it is' but I know that he can't really take being on the receiving end of what he so easily dishes out. Lets discuss the difference between happiness and contentment because they are two different states of mind he insisted - and when I refused, I was told that it was a 'cop out'. I ignored him because he was influenced by a bit more than the air he was breathing.

His mind is very analytical and full of what I call psychological babble, the kind of thing that will examine whether colour has any feelings, that kind of stuff. It does my head in and I just won't go there. I got him off the phone, because I've had conversations with him in the past like this and it always ends where he slams the phone down on me. I was pleased that I handled it better this time and just said that we'd talk another time, but that I was tired and wanted to leave it for now. He took it well and seemed quite content.

I felt so... well not shocked, but 'oh no'. I'd been so proud of his efforts to get off crack in the past and told him so when he told me early into reunion that he'd given up cocaine off his own back and now I'm frankly dazed, I'm felled by the blow, because its another thing that is going to get in the way of him finding happiness. I'm worried. What mom wouldn't be?

He'll argue when he's like this that he's happy with the way he is, even though he'll raze people through the ground and not blink, but one month without communication from a 'friend' and he's incensed. He wasn't shouting and his voice wasn't raised, but I think it was because he was numb on a substance and I don't think it was just the beer (his voice was slurred) as he normally gets aggressive with the beer and this time he was chilled out.

Has anyone had experience of what to do about this. Do you just leave them to it? Support them from a distance and let them kill themselves? Or does tough mother love come into it? Do I shop him or hope he will 'grow out of it'. Hah! thats not likely in my opinion. He wants to live abroad, because he hates living in this country. He has my vote on that one, I can tell you.

As a job, he drives an old lady who has Alzheimers and I feared for her safety before when he'd been drinking every night, but now I'm so worried, as I know the effects of drugs. I think I will outlive my son the way he is going, I"m getting fearful that I will get that phone call saying thats it, he's dead. As much as he's a hurt individual, how on earth does anyone get motivated to change their life?

As much as he loves and hates his aparents ('they don't respect me' he laments) I'm wondering if I should shop him to the police, to them, I hesitate with them, because they approach it with a 'you've brought shame to the family, how dare you'. I just don't know. Does anyone have ANY thoughts on this? a lad who doesn't want to change his life. I can't bear the lifestyle, the 'friends', or how he tackles life, but I know from past posts, that HE has to be the one to want to change and he doesn't!

Help me please someone.

Janny

[crick]

Oh wow Janny...

Has he ever had an intervention at all? Is it something his parents and you could work together on? Contacting a drug rehab center/professional and seeing what they recommend?

Unfortunately from my experiences with this, until the person doing the drugs makes the effort and is motivated to change the habit...it's more about taking care of YOU and learning how to deal with the acceptance. Or making the choice to pull away etc.

Have you ever gone to a Al Anon meeting or anything like that? They might have some great support for you as you go through this.

Nothing's easy...eh?

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by crick

Oh wow Janny...

Has he ever had an intervention at all? Is it something his parents and you could work together on? Contacting a drug rehab center/professional and seeing what they recommend?

Unfortunately from my experiences with this, until the person doing the drugs makes the effort and is motivated to change the habit...it's more about taking care of YOU and learning how to deal with the acceptance. Or making the choice to pull away etc.

Have you ever gone to a Al Anon meeting or anything like that? They might have some great support for you as you go through this.

Nothing's easy...eh?

Thanks crick, I am going to pieces here, its 02.00am and as you can imagine, I'm not sleeping, no way. I googled a site and found a website about crack and it was very helpful and I sent a strong message to him that I hope will wake him up - it included: this stuff is vicious, the brain has evolved a truly vicious set of negative feedback mechanisms, get the heck out of it. I THINK the bit that nails me is: once loved partners and children may be callously cast aside and (friend's name?) and friends? Is that what you are going to do to me? Am I going to get a phone call saying you are dead? What do you want on your gravestone? thats where you are headed and that does my head in - totally. How does that make me feel? You feel estatic at the minute. It won't last. I was so proud of you when you gave it up before - do it again son. I do NOT want to attend your funeral.

Some may think that is the wrong thing, I don't know. I'm flummoxed, I'm winded. He's got off it before with sheer willpower. It makes me feel like a shrivelled worm, the effect that our reunion has had on him. I honestly thought we'd gone through this and left it behind. He can be so cruel. I need to find some kind of toughness myself. I think I may need to contact his parents and arrange a meeting. But he hates them and he will hate me forever if I do that. At the minute he trusts me enough to tell me. He knows I don't tolerate fools, but he doesn't recognise himself as one. The above is an appeal, but how the heck he is going to get motivated to want to change, I do not know. He thought he was going to die last December. His amom said not, but I don't agree with her, ecstasy is bad, the nurse asked him quite forcefully - do you want to die? then if he wanted to live to do exactly as she asked him so that sounds pretty serious to me.

Not sure on this one. I'm going to try and get some sleep. I sure can't keep going on these benders. Its making me mentally ill. Thanks for responding Crick, it helps, I was going to phone the Samaritans or something. Oh help.

[lilraskels]

Jannyroo-
I am so sorry you are having to endure this. I know this is any mothers night mare. Do you think that his aparents have any clue to his using? I think that out of love it could be that yall could ban together and help him tackle his abuse. He seems like he could be in self distruct mode. I would do what it took not matter if I was an a or b mother. It is the love for the child that causes us to react. If you don't he could die if you do he could 'hate' you and have life. More than likely he will see through that 'hate' once he is sober and got the help he needs. Then when he looks back he will be able to thankful for the interference. I sure hope this helps. Keep you head high. Prayer changes things.
Keep us informed.

[RavenSong]

Janny, I'm going to come back and post a real long message in a bit about this. I think you know I had to deal with my son's serious drug addiction the first few years of our reunion. He was addicted to crystal methamphetamine. So I have LOADS of experience in this area, unfortunately. I need to finish cooking dinner right now, though. I'll be back soon!

((((HUGS))))

[keds]

Jannyroo, I am so sorry, I'm out of town and have limited access. I'll PM you when I get home tomorrow night. Hang in there. Not sure what do to as, thankfully, I dont' have any experience with this, but I've never been a tough love kind of gal but sometimes. Talk to you soon. love kate

[kakuehl]

Janny, lots of love and hugs heading your way!

[quantum]

Janny,

This is just horrific! I guess just one thing that first came to mind is remember that there are choices one makes in life and these are choices he's making. I guess I am just really hoping that you aren't putting any of this on your shoulders! My brother has a problem with pot. It seems I'm the only one who notices!

Hang in there, get support. This seems overwhelming to deal with.
*hugs*

[RavenSong]

Hi, Janny...

I'm probably going to have to write this in several posts cuz it's going to be long...

Are you sure we don't have the same son? Because, my dear, you are going through exactly the same thing I did 17 years ago. This may sound strange, but I somehow knew that you were going to find out soon about your son's continued substance abuse. The first day I signed up as a member here on Adoption.com and read your thread on your son's "pullback", I said to myself, "That's not adoptee pullback, that's addict behavior."

And I think that is why I've been trying to steer you away from Nancy Verrier's books for the moment. Although I'm sure your son does have some pretty deep adoption-related "issues", that is NOT what is going on here. I don't think Verrier can help you deal with your son's substance abuse. Before your son can even begin to work on his reunion issues, he needs to get clean and sober. It will only be then that you can even begin to assess what damage is adoption-related and what is drug-related.

Drug addiction, and yes I'm calling it addiction, not drug abuse or recreational use, has a life of its own. The addict may begin using drugs as a method of self-medicating, maybe for some valid reasons in the very beginning. But when the drug gets a hold of them mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually, the original reason for using it evaporates. At that point, the addict is using because his body and/or mind demands it. And it is at this point, depending on what type of drug is being used, the addict's behavior becomes obnoxious, rageful, contemptuous, and, strangely enough, arrogant. These seem to be common behavior traits with both crack cocaine and crystal methamphetamine. (Heroin addiction, on the other hand, does not seem to have the same type of hard-core dangerous behavior changes, IMHO.)

Crack cocaine is not a recreational drug. I'm sure there are some users who claim to only smoke it on weekends. But believe me, most crack users eventually become crack addicts. The same thing holds true with crystal methamphetamine. Both drugs are extremely addictive right from the start. Crystal meth is a bigger problem here in California than in other parts of the world, mainly because it is a lot cheaper than cocaine. But the two drugs are often used interchangeably.

I've seen crystal meth tear apart families like you wouldn't believe. And it has absolutely nothing to do with adoption. I've seen middle-class kids go from being straight-A honor students to living in the streets as teenage prostitutes. I've known good mothers who started using crystal meth to help them lose weight become neglectful and emotionally abusive parents. I once worked with a young woman in San Diego (nicknamed the "Crystal Capital of the World") who moved there to attend graduate school at the University of California in an extremely competitive Ph.D program in psychology. She already had her B.A., M.A., and M.S.W. She had worked as a clinical social worker for several years. And then she got involved with crystal, and her life went down the toilet. The last time I ran into her, she was "cooking" crystal meth in a home-made laboratory. Most of her teeth were gone, her skin looked terrible, and her eyes looked dead. And I wished I could drag her with me to every high-school class in the city, just so the kids could really see what these drugs are about.

Well, enough about what the drugs can do to people. I'm sorry if I got off on a tangent. But this is a subject I become very passionate about, mostly due to the fact that I came very, very close to losing my son forever. Back in those early reunion years, I had to face the fact that I could very well be going to his funeral. It was not only like watching a train wreck about to happen, but it felt like I was standing on the train tracks alongside of him. (To be continued.....)

[kdecrow]

Good morning Jannyroo....

Your post breaks my heart. Has your son been tested for bipolar disorder? I'm no Dr.....but....

God bless you. There's not too much you can do about your adult son's choices. Get help for yourself though.

As you know my son is deceased. I really can't bear the thought of someone else going through this pain.

I think that the suggestion of you contacting his aparents and presenting a united front is an excellent one.

Good luck to you,

Kim

[lovemy2boys]

Jannyroo - my heart goes out to you. Like Ravensong said, when I read your posts, I would say, "Wow - her son sounds alot like my brother. It wasn't just him per se, but the reactions of his parents that caught my attention. My parents have never turned their back on my brother throughout his addiction (and I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just our families experience) but there are times when they feel so hopeless and so ill equipt to handle him that they throw their hands up and say "we surrender".

It is a dangerous, seedy, deadly life for the addict, and a vicious, gutwrenching, emotionally debilitating life for their loved ones. The only "advice" I can give is try to remember that when you are trying to "reason" with him, you are not talking to your son - you are talking to the drug. I'm not saying to give up - I'm just saying that this has been my decade long experience with my brother. There are periods of lucidity when he is clean (but even when clean he is white knuckling it day to day) when he realizes the destructive path he's on, but then something that we'd all think were nuisances like, say, an arguement with a friend, will set him off on another downward spiral.

My brother has been through rehab a dozen times, but the drug always pulls him back. People that I know think it's his choice - an addicts choice whether or not they do the drugs, but I believe (and maybe wrongly so, but I doubt it) that given a choice, my brother would not choose to be at the mercy of crack.

Sorry to go on for so long - your post just brought out some very strong emotions for me - my brother's addiction is the worst thing my family has ever lived through, and believe me - we've been through alot. Only you know whether or not you can stand by him during this time, and either way you choose, no one can fault you (even though some probably will - I've experienced this as well). Listen to Ravensong's advice - I know I will be here to grab what I can...My prayers are with you and your son right now.

By the way, kdecrow - my brother was diagnosed bipolar 10 years after his addiction began...

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by lovemy2boys

but the reactions of his parents that caught my attention. My parents have never turned their back on my brother throughout his addiction (and I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just our families experience) but there are times when they feel so hopeless and so ill equipt to handle him that they throw their hands up and say "we surrender".

Hi everyone, thanks for the support. I went to a couple of people in my congregation that have experience of this and I've decided on two options. 1. To contact his amom and ask her if she's aware of whats going on and 2. to put up further parameters that tells him that I can't take this, we can't sort anything out until he's clean and until he is, the phone and email are off limits.

I phoned an elder in my congregation and he suggested I contact the amom. So I did. I've just come off the phone to her having a very rewarding phone call with her. We are now united in our desire to help him. I have asked her if she feels she can get him into rehab. She said that he'll refuse as in the past. I said that I would support her all the way if she not only insists, but shows that he HAS to go and that tough mother love on her part as well as mine, means that he has no choice. Those choices after a lifetime of having to put up with what she has told me, well, it just has to stop.

In the meantime, I will outline his choices. I said that she can tell T that I've spoken with her. I know he will be angry, but thats part and package of being a mother, taking that kind of rubbish.

I feel sooooo much better now. I gave his amom my phone number and she will stay in touch. I feel better knowing that we are both going to try hard to stay strong, her knowing that I support her. Neither of us can deal with this bad mannered, filthy speaking, horrible person that hides the boy we both know is inside there but overtaken by a drug so dangerous, that if we don't unite now and get him seen to, we will all be attending his funeral.

I feel at peace.

[Jackiejdajda]

This from the Alanon daily reader.. page 205

When my spirit is in turmoil and my troubled thoughts race round and round, and I try to reason myself out of this frame of mind, it may be well to stop reasoning and hold fast to a single idea that speaks of quiet and serenity. One such is: Keep it Simple.

Probably there is nothing I can do now – this minute, this hour, today – to solve the problem that is gnawing at my peace of mind. Then to what purpose do I torment myself?

I will stop trying to figure out ways and means. I will not rehash, over and over, thoughts so bitter that they can make me feel physically ill. I will empty my mind of all this perplexity and hold to just one simple thought while I wait for God’s guidance.

Today’s Reminder

The things that trouble me are often too complex to yield to human reasoning. Indeed their only reality may be in my confused thoughts. When I reach such an impasse I remind myself to keep it simple, I will find myself being restored to composure.

“Under the shadow of Thy wing shall be my refuge until this tyranny be overpast. “

(Book of Common Prayer)
I tried to find some reading in the Alanon daily reader to help you on terms of how do we deal with the addict..
I gave up looking and just opened the book and this (above) came up.

When a person goes to Alanon (for those who love/live with/have in their lives alcoholic/addicts) he or she learns that they have no power over the addict.. We can not force change.. and IMO if we do our lives become unmanageable..
I have done coke.. I have sat in the rooms of NA and listened to young men share on their addiction..
I have seen them come from half way houses.. in a van and sit and listen to the shares and then seen them go back to the half way houses..
A sponsor is what they need.. someone that has walked the walk.. knows how to beat the dragon..

Intervention.. What you suggest in your post.. Is not in my daily reader books.. My how to deal with this stuff books..
I do not think it would have worked with me.. but I did not like coke it was not my drug of choice..
I liked downers.. weed.. stuff like that..
But if my mom and dad or my sister or whoever had of confronted me I would have gotten angry and cut them off.. but that’s me..

And if you do an intervention.. it needs to be a group effort.. he needs to be told that if he does not seek help he will be on his own..
You do not have that kind of situation.. IMO
So I think all you can do is detach.. and hope and pray he comes out of it.. wants to change..
No blame..

Let go and let God.. is one of my favorite AA saying..

If you can get to an Alanon meeting in your community.. I urge you to go.. you have a double whammy here..

Also Melody Beatties books.. Codependent No More.. and Beyond Codependency.
There is an understanding needed when we deal with addicts..

Jackie