[Jannyroo]

I've had a particularly traumatic reunion with my son for the past 18 months and I felt that things were easing up when he went into another pull back. Longer this time. I kind of understand (i.e.the intellect does, but the heart pines....) why he needs to do this, but it doesn't make it any easier. Whilst he was doing this, I found it gave me some emotional space to focus on myself and work through some of my issues and after recognising that I'd suffered PTSD one of the more pleasant aspects was that I was reliving more pleasant memories. That was nice.

Based on this new feeling of release, I contacted my father who now lives in Canada. Some years ago we had an arguement on the phone and that was that. I couldn't cope with him and vice versa. So with all these new feelings and pleasant memories, I gave it a shot and phoned him last Friday with the proverbial olive branch and was delighted that he reciprocated. He is 80 and I was glad I made the effort, but now in a very short time, I beginning to rue the day. I find that since Monday I've received emails that I can't cope with.

Frankly, I'm finding this 'reunion' as traumatic as the one I've had with my son. My father wants to go through baggage of over 50 years ago, before I was even born and make me aware of what he had to go through with my mother (they've been divorced since I was 11 and he's been happily remarried the past 22 years). When my mother died, I'd changed my surname by deed poll to her mothers maiden name and my father sent me an email querying why I'd done this and told me how evil that side of my family was, how he suffered because they caused a rift between him and their daughter, had no faith in him etc etc. I can't tell you how shocked I was and he seemed to hint at much much more, but I told him straight, don't go there! I can't handle it. But the damage is done in my eyes. He's also hinted that things were going on and that's why my mother never talked about her family (I know nothing about them).

Whilst my father thinks all this is carthartic for him and for me, I feel as though I've just blown a fuse and can't handle either. My goodness, I've just spent the past 18 months staggering through a reunion with my son and now instead of being able to look to the future, I find my father wants to go to the past and cover all this yuk about my mother who has been dead over 2 years.

Has anyone else been through this kind of stuff? Why would my father after being happily married for the past 20+ years want to go down this road? I've asked him if he's seen a professional counsellor, or has he spoken to my other sister who lives in his town, like this? but he hasn't answered. I would dearly love to have a relationship with my father, but this is too much. I have spelt it out that if he takes us down the past it could jeopardise the future, but having had my new surname dragged through the mud, when I was and continue to be delighted with it (it was a new start for me, a decision to leave the past and move on with the future. I changed it 2 years ago, just after my mom died), I'm staggered. For me, its brought all that I'd hoped for to a grinding halt. I hardly know how to think, never mind how to go forwards.

Needless to say, I gag at the thought of letting my son anywhere near his grandfather in the future, if he's going to portray his (now dead) grandmother in this light. I've explained to my father that as adults we have to keep stuff from our children, but my father seems to recognise no such boundaries. He seems to want a new relationship with me based on 'clearing the slate'. I get to feeling he wants closure through me and I feel he should see a professional and not discharge his ambiguous feelings on his daughter.

Oh my goodness, Help!!!!! I was so looking forward to the person I most feel is my inner self, I am so confused and disjointed. I feel that my father and son could finish me off. Oh this is far too much. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I need a hug!!!!!

[Jackiejdajda]

Has anyone else been through this kind of stuff? Why would my father after being happily married for the past 20+ years want to go down this road? I've asked him if he's seen a professional counselor, or has he spoken to my other sister who lives in his town, like this? but he hasn't answered. I would dearly love to have a relationship with my father, but this is too much. I have spelt it out that if he takes us down the past it could jeopardise the future, but having had my new surname dragged through the mud, when I was and continue to be delighted with it (it was a new start for me, a decision to leave the past and move on with the future. I changed it 2 years ago, just after my mom died), I'm staggered. For me, its brought all that I'd hoped for to a grinding halt. I hardly know how to think, never mind how to go forwards.

I am in Canada.. near Kingston Ontario..

My dad died a year or so back.. He was in a nursing home near the end.. Near the end he was delusional.. he would dream and wake up and still be in the dream.. I would try and call at least once a day.. and if he was in one of his waking dreams I would try and talk him down..

He was a stoic man.. all his life.. Mom and I would try and talk ‘real stuff’ and he would tell us to shut up..
Don’t talk about it.. etc..
But near the end he was kind of lost.. My sister wanted no part of this stuff.. but I was willing..
So many fears.. so many wish I had done that.. kind of thing..

I had forgiven him.. I think this is why I was able to listen and help him..
Maybe searching this here forgiveness thing may help you..

Jackie

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by Jackiejdajda

I am in Canada.. near Kingston Ontario..

My dad died a year or so back.. He was in a nursing home near the end.. Near the end he was delusional.. he would dream and wake up and still be in the dream.. I would try and call at least once a day.. and if he was in one of his waking dreams I would try and talk him down..

He was a stoic man.. all his life.. Mom and I would try and talk ‘real stuff’ and he would tell us to shut up..
Don’t talk about it.. etc..
But near the end he was kind of lost.. My sister wanted no part of this stuff.. but I was willing..
So many fears.. so many wish I had done that.. kind of thing..

I had forgiven him.. I think this is why I was able to listen and help him..
Maybe searching this here forgiveness thing may help you..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

Thanks very much for the thought gone into your reply. He has mentioned the regrets and the missing us 'girls' but I'm 50 and in between are 30 years in which he had chance to communicate with us both. He chose my sister and I didn't get a look in. At times out of the blue he would communicate and then he would disappear. It was almost like a 'guest star' appearance role. He felt he could come back any time he liked. We are too alike, and yet, out of the two of us, I was the most forgiving. I've been telling him every time we met up and with letters etc, that I've got no grudges against him, there is nothing that I feel, only understanding and sympathy.

There were two people, my mom and dad and they couldn't get on. They both had baggage, they both tried and did their best with what they had. Jackie I keep telling him over and over but he won't let up. Over the years, nothing seems to convince him. Now he has to go through all the detail (yuk stuff) and I think a counsellor should take it. I've worked through all my stuff and I've come to a place of peace. He's 80 now and nothing I"ve said seems to have made any difference. He is and always has been a selfish man, but he's funny and entertaining and that kinda makes up for it. But I just can't take on board the nitty gritty stuff of 30,40, 50 years ago. Its time to put it to bed. I've emailed him to say as such.

I've said for the umpteenth time this week alone, its not a problem for me Dad. If it is for you, I understand, but lets leave the past behind and move forwards. I just don't understand why he can't. He just can't. He's been through all of this stuff with my other sister and I heard through the grapevine that it was pretty terrible stuff. Jackie, he is a parent, and yet doesn't seem to know how to be one, he thinks that he can laden his children now grown up with what a parent should work out amongst themselves or their peers.

Oh, this is so hard on top of reunion with my son. They are both soooooo alike. My son 'dumped' on me the same pretty much as soon as we met. Not bit by bit, then a howya doing mom? Noooooo. Get the whole lot, avalanche, boom!!! its suffocating and I'm reeling from it. But I've come to the decision that he either lets go of the past (there's nothing to forgive now, we're all so much older and wiser. Is it possible that my other sister hasn't forgiven him and he wants closure with me?) or we are going nowhere.

My dad may be 80 but he is nothing close to having dementia. He is lively, involved, plenty of pastimes and active. I really hope I get the right response from him. Although I emailed him, I have acknowledged his fears and worries about the past and said, ok, lets move on now, they are not hindering me from having a new loving relationship, so don't let it do that to you. Time to put it to bed, stand under the rainbow, not in the rain.

Thanks for listening anyway. I will try to scroll myself through the emotions and come out the other side. I have to get a grip on this and stop the potential it has of wiping me out. My dad to me is an amazing man, but emotionally, I've just had 18 months near wipe out with my son, so I can't take another man child on.

[SuddenlySusan]

(((JANNYROO)))

I just have hugs for you, Jannyroo. I hope you two can work it out...

Hugs,
Susan

[keds]

Jannyroo

I'm only on for a bit as I'm off to catch a flight. I'll read your posts through again tomorrow morning when I get home. For now ((((((HUGS)))))).

Kate

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by SuddenlySusan

(((JANNYROO)))

I just have hugs for you, Jannyroo. I hope you two can work it out...

Hugs,
Susan

Hi Susan & Keds,

Thanks for your support. I sent an understanding but lets leave the past and put it to bed kind of email to my father, but unfortunately he's laying down what seems to me to be the unpalatable criteria of any possible renewal of father/daughter. He contradicts himself throughout, but the most difficult bit was if I 'go back' we start from the original surname that I had - his. The one I've adopted by deed poll that I have now fills him with such anaethma, as apparently the owner of my surname (my grandmother, mothers side) is so abbhorent to him, that despite this happening over 45 years and the person long since dead (she died when I was 5?), he stills hold that if I'm to 'return' to him it will be with his surname. I think that pretty much fills me with as much revulsion as he claims to have for the person who bore that name, so with so little to go on at the minute, it doesn't seem a viable proposition.

I need time to think this one out, but one thing is that I'm not happy to have my surname that I've delighted in (as it has Scottish roots) to be smeared so, and also the hanging proposition of 'don't you want to find out more' as to why he finds the name so revolting. Not a good start I don't think. I will have to leave it for a while and ponder. I dont like being manipulated so early on, but perhaps its best before I grew to have the kind of affection that would tear me apart had we gone the distance. I do feel that I have an emotional distance for the minute and perhaps that would best serve me well, in the same way adoptees need to test the waters and let time pass?

[Susie1966]

I am a junior member and thought I might take some time out from my own perspective as an adoptee searching hoping for reunion and read what BMoms are experiencing in more detail...I have read the Girls Who Went Away and was very moved by the stories therein.

Not only is it so difficult in terms of surrendering your baby, it seems that also once this has been enacted there is little support within families.

I myself have argued with hubby about searching for BMom. I hope that my search will never inflict the pain that you women express in the forum during reunion if I am ever lucky enough to achieve that. I have a deep respect for your pain.

All the Best
Susie

[SuddenlySusan]

Yeh, Jannyroo... perhaps it's time to take a break. I am sorry this has been so hard for you. With a little time and distance, maybe his perspective will change. He's pretty wound up over the name, isn't he?

Sounds like time for another walk in the cool air and then some hot cocoa. I wish I could offer you more ... here's some hugs...

(((((JANNYROO)))))

Peace,
Susan

[keds]

Jannyroo, My Gosh you just seem to be getting it from all sides - timeout, definitely. As for your name, I would have a hard time with that one as well. My mom insists on calling my bson by the name we gave him instead of his name. She has yet to meet him, not sure that day will ever come but it drives me nuts! I'm not sure why but the first time I met him f2f his name was, well right! I don't even think of him any other way, even though it seems to be a problem for everyone else. I am always careful when people make ultimatums or conditions on relationships. I feel it makes "me" somehow less worthy, maybe not the right word. Yes, there have to be boundaries but they have to be respectful. ((((hugs))))

Susie1966 - thank you for your post. I wish you success in your search and from my own experience, it wasn't being found that caused pain, in fact I prayed for it. It was the years of neglecting what my true feelings were, and as you said, little or no support before during or after placement. But, time to concentrate on the positive. A long run, and then a treat - pasta for dinner (and maybe a glass of wine!). Enjoy the weekend.

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by Susie1966

Not only is it so difficult in terms of surrendering your baby, it seems that also once this has been enacted there is little support within families.

All the Best
Susie

You are not kidding Susie. My father's email yesterday, knowing the pain that relinquishing brought me, came out with (bear in mind this is only 5 days after our 'reunion'!!!) "obviously I get the impression from your letters (emails) that he is the be all and end all of your life at the present. Ouch!

My brother said tell him to (swearword) get his act together and be a man! (totally alien to him to comprehend what my son is going through).

When I was first reunited with my son (about 1 week?) I was sitting in front of my sister and crying, I was so overcome with the emotion of it all. Her response? She got up, left me at the breakfast table and went to sleep in the lounge. Oh hum. Its a long old journey enough. I for one am rather tired of this permanent feeling as if my head is stretched to capacity. Its like a low grade headache that feels like the elastic has stretched and gone white and is about to tear......

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by SuddenlySusan

Yeh, Jannyroo... perhaps it's time to take a break. I am sorry this has been so hard for you. With a little time and distance, maybe his perspective will change. He's pretty wound up over the name, isn't he?

Sounds like time for another walk in the cool air and then some hot cocoa. I wish I could offer you more ... here's some hugs...

(((((JANNYROO)))))

Peace,
Susan

Hi Susan,
ohhhhhh if I don't get some relief soon I think I will break! I've been up most nights until 2am. My neighbour (nice woman) died at home and was taken away 4.30am (I liked her) and I was awaken by the footsteps in and out of the block. I'd been supporting her daughter who nursed her and gave her her last wish that she died at home.

Thanks for your support, but one thing I know about my father, is that for the past 40 years when we have met (only need about 10 fingers, if that, to count the times) is that his perspective will not change. I've an intense fullness in my head as if my head will explode with any more 'pressure'. Reunion has been enough to do my head in and I desperately need something a bit more 'normal' than this.

I emailed my father back and said, ok, I've chewed on the fact that this surname is so abhorrent to you, so now tell me, WHAT IS IT that has caused such anaethma to you? and I pointed out that if he tells me, I may not be able to cope with the information, that it may stop any reunion right there in its tracks, so the ball is back in his court now. My friend said to me that in their 80's, parents need you to be parents and they need to discharge anything that memories bring back and it usually at that age that they do it. I'm not happy about it, but she says we as adults have to 'take' it and that I would always wonder what the heck it was about and what it was that caused him such pain, so I sent the email to him today to ask him to spit it out, but to be wary of the knowledge he is about to part with. (Oh my goodness, I hardly can breathe wondering what else he is going to put my way).

With all the self sacrifice and emotional pain that reunion has brought, I feel like a bird that has had her wings clipped and no longer has any freedom. I had that freedom as a single person and I feel it has been taken away from me from these two men that seem pretty darned determined to bring as much anguish to my life and in my son's case say oops, sorry, but you're strong you can take it and my father: no oops about it, no apologies they are both selfish people and I'm ready to not only shut the door but slam it!!!!

I CANT BELIEVE how much my father has discharged on me in the space of 5 bloomin' horrible days. The first communication I reacted to landed me in hospital gasping for breath (if I have asthma, I think this would kill me literally, the stress of it all) with an oxygen mask. I think a recent poster said it all - this amount of pain just isn't normal. There is nothing normal about what I've been through 18 months and what promises to come. To all adoptees that wonder why us bmom's give up, perhaps my journal and posts will give you a clue. I am totally gobsmacked that I've lasted this long. The assault on the emotions is more than I can bear and I've been told I'm a tough, strong woman, but we all have our breaking points.....

Slow? My son and father when it comes to downloading their take on life, slow doesn't come into it and yet I was warned quite strongly by my first adoption counsellor DON'T BURN YOUR SON with your painful memories. Yeh, well that should work both ways but it didn't.

Thanks to Susie1966 and Susan for your support, it truly is appreciated. Yes I think I will have that hot chocolate now, with lashings of cream and some cinnamon on top??? Yeh, I'm off for a walk in the cool air, see you back at the log fire and cosy lounge? We'll talk some more if I haven't been carted away for help with mental health issues......

[SuddenlySusan]

...hang in there, Jannyroo!

Extra servings of whipped cream are on the way!

(((HUGS)))

Susan

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by keds

Jannyroo, My Gosh you just seem to be getting it from all sides - timeout, definitely. As for your name, I would have a hard time with that one as well. My mom insists on calling my bson by the name we gave him instead of his name. She has yet to meet him, not sure that day will ever come but it drives me nuts! I'm not sure why but the first time I met him f2f his name was, well right! I don't even think of him any other way, even though it seems to be a problem for everyone else. I am always careful when people make ultimatums or conditions on relationships. I feel it makes "me" somehow less worthy, maybe not the right word. Yes, there have to be boundaries but they have to be respectful. ((((hugs))))

Hi Keds,
thanks for your kind support, I so desperately appreciate it. I do seem to be getting it all sides and the strongest reason for contacting my father was so that my son could be reunited with him before he dies, as at 80, time is running out. I've successfully managed to 'do without' my father for quite some time. He laments the lost years, but when I was pregnant he tally ho'd off to Canada and promised to send a monthly allowance but that was the last I heard from him until he found out I had a degree and then he wrote with the "proud of my daughter" bit.

Any contact has always been initiated by me and I have always found the combination of his good points overshadowed by the real meanness he brings to my life because I am not successful as he sees it. I've had some bitter moments with him where I was ill and in social housing and he said "you're there because thats the way you want it". He's slammed my head against the wall emotionally and challenged my faith full throttle and I stood my ground, because that is something I will not budge on. My son tried the same and he hit a brick wall too. My faith and friends within that faith has been the mainstay and turning point of my life for the past 22 or more years and they have been more family than my family ever could be (hurts, but I've had to accept that).

As for the surname, that was a huge turning point for me, shortly after my mothers death. Considering that women 'lose' their surname when they get married, I don't see what the hoo ha is about changing it, but then he has some dark dark secret that he's bursting to tell, so I've told him, TELL IT, and then for goodness sake let go of it, but over the times I've seen him in the past 30 years (very rarely) he always goes like a magic robot and swings back to the past. It gets too much, it really does. He's been 'happily' married for the past 25 years and so I have to admit, I don't get it. This stuff in the past must have really hurt him that all this time on he still hasn't been able to heal.

I do get to feeling that my mother was the love of his life, but she couldn't and wouldn't make the effort needed to keep the marriage together, but at the same time, as I've said to my father, that is 2 people that tried their best at that time, and I've moved on from the destructive effect it's had on my life. I'm at peace now (or was!!!) so that we can enjoy our last years together in some kind of peace. He's not having it. Like my son, he's discharged so much in the first few days of 'reunion' I'm out of breath.

Like you Keds, I liked my son's adopted name and I told him so too. I'm very comfortable with the name he has now and with the way his grandfather is currently behaving I would be very cautious about letting him anywhere near him nor would I encourage any contact. If your gut instincts say the same Keds, with your mother, I would say stay with them.

If others have a problem, then like me, you will probably have to let them choke on it and let time elapse when they can start to be more reasonable, if ever. like my family, I have spent many years protecting my heart from their destructive influences and short sharp doses of contact with them is always more than enough for me. The idea that families are happy and all that stuff, is far removed from reality for a lot of us. It sounds as if I am about to get all the rubbish about my mothers side of her family. Oh groan.... I never met them, the sole survivor, my grandma died when I was 5 years old.

I wish I was a hobbit and could crawl into the ground and disappear into another world, something ethereal and comforting..... but all that happens is that I go to Morrisons instead of Tescos and Waitrose instead of Lidl.......and fight my battles through.... endless streams of traffic.... ((((Hugs)))) keds.

p.s. I liked the sentence you wrote Yes, there have to be boundaries but they have to be respectful. You are sooooo right. I am not the kind of person that won't stand my ground if that is the thing I need to do.....

[keds]

Jannyroo, sounds like you and I both have lots of issues to work through that have nothing but everything to do with adoption! I agree, the Leave it to Beaver or Happy Days families are all hard to swallow. I don't think my family is any better or worse than anyone else's, just feels that way! The funny thing is, if I decide that, for my ow