[keds]

Hi there! Great minds think alike. I spent 2 hours on the phone with my parents telling them that this isn't "all about them" or "all about me" but IS "all about him". I explained that reunion will progress at HIS pace and HE will decide who HE wants to meet and that it may take months, years who knows how long. Not a happy response but they've laid off me for a week so things are looking up! My gut tells me to keep them as far away as possible but I won't influence bson in anyway, maybe caution the "clingyness" but people usually reveal their true colours soon enough and he will make his own decision on those of us he wants in his life and those he doesn't. Oh, I sound very grown up now don't I - truth be known, I'm afraid I won't make the cut either!

As for you, I think I'd heed my friends advice - you recognize how long and hard a road it was so why go back? If I've learned anything from you, and I have a lot, it's recognizing "toxic" people and letting them go. I am old enough and can control only what I say and do and part of that is saying NO. Funny how we want what's best for our sons, possibly no contact with other family members, but won't take the same advice ourselves! Take care and "talk" to you soon.



Kate

[bobbie30062]

Hi. I haven't been on in quite awhile as I too found my son or he found me through this site and we have bee progressing ever since. It's a very long road full of bumps and turns, but in the long run I'm very happy we met and have been very close ever since. He will be having his own son in about 6 weeks. He also has 2 beautiful girls. Ive started a blog. FULL CIRCLE to view my story and the long road.I wish you the best and hope all goes well

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by keds

Hi there! Great minds think alike. I spent 2 hours on the phone with my parents telling them that this isn't "all about them" or "all about me" but IS "all about him". I explained that reunion will progress at HIS pace and HE will decide who HE wants to meet and that it may take months, years who knows how long. Not a happy response ....Oh, I sound very grown up now don't I - truth be known, I'm afraid I won't make the cut either!

As for you, I think I'd heed my friends advice - you recognize how long and hard a road it was so why go back? If I've learned anything from you, and I have a lot, it's recognizing "toxic" people and letting them go. I am old enough and can control only what I say and do and part of that is saying NO. Funny how we want what's best for our sons, possibly no contact with other family members, but won't take the same advice ourselves! Take care and "talk" to you soon.

Kate

Hi Kate,
Someone pointed out to me that my father is coming across as 'jealous' with all the effort I am putting into my son. He said I can see that your son is the be all and end all of your life (ouch!, as if I have nothing else to do but wait hand on foot (read: wait email/phone) on my son???

I think it was fauxgina that pointed out to me that us bmothers are not unlike adoptees (with the unrealistic expectations) we have of reuniting with OUR parents, only to find the same result as we've always had with them, what made us think that they'd change????

I once read that the definition of insanity is to keep trying the same things to get a different result!!! LOL. I like that! so funny but true. He was referring to using the same drugs to get different results with depression, but the application remains the same n'est ce pas?

I don't know if my son will ever be ready to meet his grandfather or vice versa. I'm certainly getting stiff resistance from both of them. At the minute, the way I'm feeling, I'd happily do without either of them in my life, such has been the trauma that led me to hospital with my breath literally taken away from me. I'm having a test to see if its asthma (I live next to a major airport) but I doubt it. I think it will show the enormous negative effect these two reunions has had on my health and I'm not prepared to go there again. My nerves are so bad, at the minute I have paper bags to reach out for, to stop my hyperventilating and the panic attacks it brings me.

By the way, since I last wrote you, my father has contacted me and asked for time out to reconsider his emotions and feelings. It sounded positive in some ways, but I'm very nervous (and reaching for the paper bag again...) about letting him into my life at all now after the crippling emails I got from him. Talk about not being able to move on from people who hurt him over 50 years ago and have been dead for as long. What on earth leads to someone being so bitter and so much hatred for someone who has been dead for so long??? I don't understand it.

Ah well. Must sleep. My body can't take much more of anything, so I am having a day of literal rest tomorrow. I've just painted a friends spare bedroom for her before a double bed is moved in, as she's too handicapped with rheumatoid arthritis to manage it herself. It gave me a great sense of satisfaction and the pleasure on her face when it was done.... just an afternoon's work dear friend, it was my pleasure. Its the small things in life... and its the people we choose to be in our lives that make it so worthwhile. I'm regretting more and more every day the family I was cursed into being born into. If only my son could recognise just how lucky he is to have the family he moans about.... it makes me realise more and more, that despite the trauma that came with it for me, I did the best thing by allowing him to have a family that would be there for him and stable despite his smash ups with life....

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by bobbie30062

Hi. I haven't been on in quite awhile as I too found my son or he found me through this site and we have bee progressing ever since. It's a very long road full of bumps and turns, but in the long run I'm very happy we met and have been very close ever since. He will be having his own son in about 6 weeks. He also has 2 beautiful girls. Ive started a blog. FULL CIRCLE to view my story and the long road.I wish you the best and hope all goes well

Hi Bobbie,thanks for the support. I went to read your story and was met with:

This blog is in violation of Blogger's Terms of Service and is open to authors only

So if you can let me know how to access, that would be good. Hope all goes well with your grandson when he arrives, wow, how lovely!!! Wishing you all the best too, keep us posted.

Love & Hugs
jannyroo

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by Jannyroo

I emailed my father back and said, ok, I've chewed on the fact that this surname is so abhorrent to you, so now tell me, WHAT IS IT that has caused such anaethma to you? and I pointed out that if he tells me, I may not be able to cope with the information, that it may stop any reunion right there in its tracks, so the ball is back in his court now.

Janny, you do realize that this is a classic "double bind" message, don't you? You're asking your father to tell you exactly why he hated your maternal grandmother so much that he can't stand you using her maiden name. But then you tell him that if he does explain it to you, you may not be able to cope with the information. Double-bind messages are horribly mind-boggling for the receiver. Just a thought....

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

Janny, you do realize that this is a classic "double bind" message, don't you? You're asking your father to tell you exactly why he hated your maternal grandmother so much that he can't stand you using her maiden name. But then you tell him that if he does explain it to you, you may not be able to cope with the information. Double-bind messages are horribly mind-boggling for the receiver. Just a thought....

Hi Ravensong,
yeh, I guess it can come across as that, because I guess I haven't given all the info, as I can't cope with even thinking about it!!! I've persistently tried to show my dad that he needs to work through his stuff and that its not mine to deal with. He emailed me back over and over 'hinting' about dark and terrible deeds and I repeated the same message, its not mine dad, its yours, and again, he came back as if to say "ask me, please ask me" and so I spelled it out, that if he insisted in going this route, the information that he felt so terrible about my grandparents on my mothers side, spit it out, BUT just realise the effect it may have on me.

He backed down and asked for time out (so now I have a son AND a father wanting the same!), so I gave him a reply saying that of course, he could always continue calling me by his surname. Double edged sword I guess. I did hear through the grapevine (sister speaking to sister etc) that what he told her was really really horrible about said grandparents.

A cousin said that he's bitter and twisted and another said she keeps her distance from him. So with that in mind, I threw the ball back in his court and invited him to spell it out and he hasn't come back to me on it, he says that if I can't cope with what he's said up to now, I wouldn't be able to deal with it. So, to me, thats fine, I don't WANT to deal with it. Parents have to get some kind of delineation between what is parent stuff and what stuff you guard your kids from, even if they are now grown up.

I for my part, cannot understand how when someone is DEAD that 50 years on, he can hate them so much. That to me, is the kind of thing that leads to wars and retribution and that kind of thing and I've encouraged my father to get counselling or someone professional, but its not good it really isn't good that he's carrying this stuff and may die an embittered man. Its also a bit fresh that he's been off the scene in my life, a kind of 'guest starring' in it for the past 40 years since he and mother divorced and now here he is, oblivious to the pain he's brought our family and making demands (it comes across to me) and conditions on any furtherance of the father/daughter relationship.

I don't honestly think I can handle him. Others in my family have said that gran/grandad were fine. If my father knows more and what my mother confided to him between husband and wife, I've asked my father to keep that to himself. My new surname was a turning point in my approach to life and means a bit more than just changing a surname it was a deliberate attempt to leave the past behind and heal and move on.

My father doesn't seem able to do that, so that is why I feel this is (again) going to fail because of the impossible demands and unpleasantries he has a habit of putting my way with no thought to how much it hurts. He is very good at understanding his own pain and precious little of those he has hurt. I can't tell you the devastating effect that has had on me as to how I feel about my son, as he shows similar characteristics.....

[RavenSong]

Hi, Jannyroo!

Yep, parents have their own baggage ~ I guess we all do in the human race, lol! It's always so sad to see how anger and bitterness can last throughout a person's lifetime, isn't it?

My dad was never able to let his feelings go about my mom, even after 30 years of divorce! When I was young, he didn't talk about it too much, and I think he honestly tried not to bash her to me. But toward the end of his life, some things started coming out. The one thing I had to keep in mind is that we all have different relationships with the person in question.

For example, my maternal grandmother was my lifeline throughout my childhood. Our relationship was extremely close ~ she often said she felt we shared the same soul. She was special to me, and we had an amazing relationship, even to the point that my mother (her daughter) was jealous! My grandmother was my "Rock of Gibraltar", and I could do no wrong in her eyes (well, except for having a baby out of wedlock, I guess).

My dad's relationship with her was a totally different matter, however. There was a lot of bitterness and confusion. They had a real "hate/love" relationship. In the year before he died, my dad often spoke to me of how confused he was when she turned on him. He said that when he was young and starting out with my mom, my grandmother treated him as her own son. But when my mom divorced my dad in 1960 (I was 5 years old), my grandmother turned vehemently against my dad. (To make things more complicated, my grandmother's lifelong best friend was my dad's mother ~ that's how my parents met!)

I did witness her venomous attacks on my dad several times. They both were incredibly intense people, maybe too much alike for their own good. This wonderful woman who loved me with all of her heart could become amazingly mean-spirited when speaking of my father.

My point is this: my grandmother was a sweet, loving woman who was willing to lay down her life for me. But she also caused my father some lifelong grief and pain. My relationship with my grandmother had nothing to do with their relationship with each other.

I discovered how deeply feelings can be buried or hidden when my grandmother died. When she was dying, she asked me to come take care of her, so she could die in her own home. I took a leave of absence from medical school, flew out to California, and took over her nursing care. She died several weeks later. During this time period, my mother and uncle wanted nothing to do with a deathbed scene. It was my father who came to my rescue, providing me with constant emotional support and making sure my grandmother had everything she needed to be comfortable in her last days.

When she died, my mother refused to give me a lift to the funeral, insisting that my father drive me there. My poor dad had not planned on going to the funeral because he didn't want to upset my mom. So anyway, he escorted me to the funeral service and later the family reception. And when he drove me back to my grandmother's house that night, he just broke down and cried like a baby. He stood in the living room where he had met my mother so many years ago, and it was like time was nonexistent for him. And he sobbed like his heart was breaking.

That was when I learned that there are no time tables for pain, anger, or grief....

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

Hi, Jannyroo!

Yep, parents have their own baggage ~ I guess we all do in the human race, lol! It's always so sad to see how anger and bitterness can last throughout a person's lifetime, isn't it?

My dad was never able to let his feelings go about my mom, even after 30 years of divorce! When I was young, he didn't talk about it too much, and I think he honestly tried not to bash her to me. But toward the end of his life, some things started coming out. The one thing I had to keep in mind is that we all have different relationships with the person in question.

For example, my maternal grandmother was my lifeline throughout my childhood. Our relationship was extremely close ~ she often said she felt we shared the same soul. She was special to me, and we had an amazing relationship, even to the point that my mother (her daughter) was jealous! My grandmother was my "Rock of Gibraltar", and I could do no wrong in her eyes (well, except for having a baby out of wedlock, I guess).

My dad's relationship with her was a totally different matter, however. There was a lot of bitterness and confusion. They had a real "hate/love" relationship. In the year before he died, my dad often spoke to me of how confused he was when she turned on him. He said that when he was young and starting out with my mom, my grandmother treated him as her own son. But when my mom divorced my dad in 1960 (I was 5 years old), my grandmother turned vehemently against my dad. (To make things more complicated, my grandmother's lifelong best friend was my dad's mother ~ that's how my parents met!)

I did witness her venomous attacks on my dad several times. They both were incredibly intense people, maybe too much alike for their own good. This wonderful woman who loved me with all of her heart could become amazingly mean-spirited when speaking of my father.

My point is this: my grandmother was a sweet, loving woman who was willing to lay down her life for me. But she also caused my father some lifelong grief and pain. My relationship with my grandmother had nothing to do with their relationship with each other.

I discovered how deeply feelings can be buried or hidden when my grandmother died. When she was dying, she asked me to come take care of her, so she could die in her own home. I took a leave of absence from medical school, flew out to California, and took over her nursing care. She died several weeks later. During this time period, my mother and uncle wanted nothing to do with a deathbed scene. It was my father who came to my rescue, providing me with constant emotional support and making sure my grandmother had everything she needed to be comfortable in her last days.

When she died, my mother refused to give me a lift to the funeral, insisting that my father drive me there. My poor dad had not planned on going to the funeral because he didn't want to upset my mom. So anyway, he escorted me to the funeral service and later the family reception. And when he drove me back to my grandmother's house that night, he just broke down and cried like a baby. He stood in the living room where he had met my mother so many years ago, and it was like time was nonexistent for him. And he sobbed like his heart was breaking.

That was when I learned that there are no time tables for pain, anger, or grief....

Thank you so much for your valuable insight and personal experience Ravensong. It helps me look at things in a new light. Thank you again. I will have to mull things over and re-think. I guess I can do nothing to change my dad's feelings at this late stage of the game, but I will think.......and see if I can come up with anything. Not sure at the moment, its all caused me so much distress.... I can't cope with either my father or my son at the minute and the breathing problems have just about done me in............

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

Hi, Jannyroo!

Yep, parents have their own baggage ~ I guess we all do in the human race, lol! It's always so sad to see how anger and bitterness can last throughout a person's lifetime, isn't it?

My dad was never able to let his feelings go about my mom, even after 30 years of divorce! When I was young, he didn't talk about it too much, and I think he honestly tried not to bash her to me. But toward the end of his life, some things started coming out. The one thing I had to keep in mind is that we all have different relationships with the person in question.

For example, my maternal grandmother was my lifeline throughout my childhood. Our relationship was extremely close ~ she often said she felt we shared the same soul. She was special to me, and we had an amazing relationship, even to the point that my mother (her daughter) was jealous! My grandmother was my "Rock of Gibraltar", and I could do no wrong in her eyes (well, except for having a baby out of wedlock, I guess).

My dad's relationship with her was a totally different matter, however. There was a lot of bitterness and confusion. They had a real "hate/love" relationship. In the year before he died, my dad often spoke to me of how confused he was when she turned on him. He said that when he was young and starting out with my mom, my grandmother treated him as her own son. But when my mom divorced my dad in 1960 (I was 5 years old), my grandmother turned vehemently against my dad. (To make things more complicated, my grandmother's lifelong best friend was my dad's mother ~ that's how my parents met!)

I did witness her venomous attacks on my dad several times. They both were incredibly intense people, maybe too much alike for their own good. This wonderful woman who loved me with all of her heart could become amazingly mean-spirited when speaking of my father.

My point is this: my grandmother was a sweet, loving woman who was willing to lay down her life for me. But she also caused my father some lifelong grief and pain. My relationship with my grandmother had nothing to do with their relationship with each other.

I discovered how deeply feelings can be buried or hidden when my grandmother died. When she was dying, she asked me to come take care of her, so she could die in her own home. I took a leave of absence from medical school, flew out to California, and took over her nursing care. She died several weeks later. During this time period, my mother and uncle wanted nothing to do with a deathbed scene. It was my father who came to my rescue, providing me with constant emotional support and making sure my grandmother had everything she needed to be comfortable in her last days.

When she died, my mother refused to give me a lift to the funeral, insisting that my father drive me there. My poor dad had not planned on going to the funeral because he didn't want to upset my mom. So anyway, he escorted me to the funeral service and later the family reception. And when he drove me back to my grandmother's house that night, he just broke down and cried like a baby. He stood in the living room where he had met my mother so many years ago, and it was like time was nonexistent for him. And he sobbed like his heart was breaking.

That was when I learned that there are no time tables for pain, anger, or grief....

Hi Ravensong,
thanks for the hugs and PM. I've emailed my father and included some of the above to see it will lance anything of his pain and to show him that I'm trying to understand him even if I can't do anything about it. Knowing my father from past historic, I think he's probably going to try to lever my head in an armlock emotionally speaking so as to use his issues to get what he wants.

I've been loving but firm to try and show him, as much as I am trying to understand why he HAS these issues, I can't do anything to relieve it. Changing my surname back to his won't take away his pain, but I have offered to let him use my surname as was.

I'll let you know if I get any response.

(((Hugs))) and warm thoughts
Jannyroo

[RavenSong]

Hi, Jannyroo!

I'm glad you sent an email to your dad. Maybe some part of my story about my father will help him. I hope so...

At the very least, it will show your dad that you are trying to understand where he's coming from. About the surname thing ~ I almost did the same exact thing that you did after my grandmother died. I was going to take her maiden name, but decided against it because I didn't want to hurt my father. I think it would have just about killed him emotionally if I had stopped using his surname. And he and I just had too much pain to deal with anyway...

Just take one day at a time, Janny ~ it's the only thing we can do... I'm here for you if you want to talk....

((((HUGS))))

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

Hi, Jannyroo!

I'm glad you sent an email to your dad. Maybe some part of my story about my father will help him. I hope so...

At the very least, it will show your dad that you are trying to understand where he's coming from. About the surname thing ~ I almost did the same exact thing that you did after my grandmother died. I was going to take her maiden name, but decided against it because I didn't want to hurt my father. I think it would have just about killed him emotionally if I had stopped using his surname. And he and I just had too much pain to deal with anyway...

Just take one day at a time, Janny ~ it's the only thing we can do... I'm here for you if you want to talk....

((((HUGS))))

Hi Ravensong,

Yes, I'm sooo glad to have you on board. Yes I'm sorry my father is in such pain, but I wonder if he's using this to keep emotional distance?

Apparently according to an email in recent weeks, he's always thought of me as a bitter young woman and wondered what happened to the bright and outgoing child that I once was. I assume that is the reason he has kept his distance (I dont feel I have been, if anything I"ve always been understanding as to why he and mom divorced, but my forgiveness, forgetting the past never seemed to sink in with him)

He then asked me to tell him what happened to me after he and mom split up and divorced.
It wasn't pretty, but now that he knows what happened, he's distraught. To think that all those years he never got round to asking until now when I've made the move to contact him!!!

Still, I now feel I've done the right thing. If anything happens to him, I know that I held out the olive branch, so my conscience and my feelings will not be the same as if I never had reached out.....

I did entitle the email "trying to understand you dad..." and I hope it reaches his heart, but if he is raking his heart over coals that have been burning 50 years, then he is going to be in one long pullback (or emotional re-evaluation one should say?). Thanks to your post, I feel more for him, whereas before, i felt angry and unflexible. Thanks Ravensong.

(((hugs))))

[RavenSong]

Janny, have you heard back from you dad yet? Egads, parents are so hard to deal with at times! My mom is in her 70s and is getting more critical and judgemental by the day....