[Dickons]

Due process under the law is a constitutional right which you chose to circumvent. It is the law, just like equal rights under the law and the fact that a child has both a mother and a father and their rights are equal - once the child is born.

Secrets and lies are two of the most abhorrent actions to adoptees.

Funny how you are very selective in who you reply too.

Regards,
Dickons

[shadow riderer]

Wow. My head is just spinning reading this. A few months back there was a new born, baby found in an apartment hallway in Dallas. The mother had abandoned the child in an apartment complex that would be considered not a good place to be, when she could have just as easily taken the baby to a fire station or hospital under the safe haven law. They found the mother charged her with abandoning a child, and place the child in foster care. The father of the child found out he was a father when they named the mother on the news. Apparently, they had broken up and she had never told him she was pregnant. He came forward and wanted his child, I think a girl. They made that man jump through hoops to prove himself fit to parent his child.

I'm telling this story because they interviewed him on the news when he gained custody. The reporter asked him why he wanted to parent his child. The fact that he was even asked that question just boggles my mind, like, what? Men, who have sex, creating a child, aren't supposed to want their own child? Anyway, his response touched me, an adoptee, so very deep inside that I burst into tears. He said, and with deep sincerity, "She is part of me."

Considering my own personal experience with adoption and reunion, what I wouldn't give to hear those words come from my biological father. I keep thinking, what kind of person advises an expectent mother to do what your, so called, lawyer advised? What he (I'm assuming it was a he) advised you to do is take the easy way out. You had the opportunity to know where your child was and how he was doing. Yeah, you would have had astruggle with the bio father, but how do you know his son wouldn't have been just the motivation to change his life. It happens you know.

Oh, wow. Wow. I can't say anymore. Go back if you can and do as Thanksgiving Mom has done. Find out what happened to your child. Please don't trust social services to do the right thing. At lease make sure you have a way to make your information available to your son if he ever wants to find you.

[SallieM]

Originally Posted by browneyes0707

Had I been in your position, I would have given him a shot. And if he walked away? Well, all the easier to get him to sign away his rights, because now you had a case that he would be an unfit father. But all you have now is a speculation that he MIGHT have done that. You don't KNOW, and you'll never know. Everyone deserves a chance, and it wasn't up to you to take it away from him. I know that's harsh, but what always made me feel a little better is that I can sleep at night knowing I behaved ethically and above board. My DD knows who we are, knows how to find us, and if she chooses to have a relationship with me, I can look her in the eye and be able to tell her that with a clear conscience that her birthfather and I made our choice without deception and without our personal opinions clouding our judgement.

I'm so glad that the father of your child turned his life around. That is a big accomplishment! However, I am not willing to gamble on my child's life that his father will make the same efforts. In the 9 months that I was pregnant, he made not one positive change in his life to prove me wrong. He does not have a suitable place to live (I do not consider a rundown apartment with 4 drunken roommates suitable), he does not have the financial resources to raise a child, he does not have the education or job skills to improve his financial outlook, and he has shown no desire to change his "party boy" behaviors or immature "I think I'll quit my job today" attitude (he went through 3 jobs in the time I was pregnant). Yes, there is always the chance that having a child will mature him, but that's not a gamble I'm willing to take with my baby. Would you?

Besides the fact, even if he were to show a desire to change, those changes will take time. Time to mature. Time to go back to school and improve his job skills. Time to find a suitable job with his new skills. Time to find a suitable home. None of these changes are going to happen instantly! He may be ready in 2 years or 3, but he is not ready TODAY. Children are not merchandise that can be put on layaway until their parents are ready for them. Parents must be ready financially and emotionally the moment they are born. He is not. I am not. It's just that simple.

And just because he later discovers that raising the baby takes too much work, doesn't mean he will then be willing to sign the adoption papers. He could try to hand the baby back to me, in which case, I would have the choice of raising the baby myself (I'm not prepared to do) or leave the baby in legal limbo (fostercare) until parental rights are terminated by the courts (could take years). There is also the very real possibility that CPS could become involved and take the child involuntarily (due to the previously described living conditions and behavior). Again, years of legal limbo for my baby. I'm not willing to risk that!

Originally Posted by shadow riderer

You had the opportunity to know where your child was and how he was doing. Yeah, you would have had struggle with the bio father, but how do you know his son wouldn't have been just the motivation to change his life. It happens you know.

Maybe. Maybe not. It's not a gamble I'm willing to take with my child's future. I would rather not know where he is but live with the hope that he is doing well, than know that he is living with his father in deplorable conditions or sitting in fostercare waiting for a court to decide.

Originally Posted by Dickons

Due process under the law is a constitutional right which you chose to circumvent. It is the law, just like equal rights under the law and the fact that a child has both a mother and a father and their rights are equal - once the child is born.

Secrets and lies are two of the most abhorrent actions to adoptees.

Funny how you are very selective in who you reply too.

Due process under the law is a nice concept. However, it often takes years for due process to work, and as anyone involved with the child welfare system knows, it often doesn't work. During the time that our case is working its way through the court, my child would either be with his father (I've already explained my reasons for not wanting that) or in fostercare. Neither one are desirable options (not to put down foster parents - I believe these are wonderful people who deserve alot of credit - but my child deserves a permanent home). I will not put protecting the father's rights above protecting my baby's. And I will not let some third party stranger who knows not me or the father decide what is best for my baby. Not now, not ever!

Secrets and lies may be abhorrent actions to adoptees, but being raised by unfit parents in an unstable home is the MOST abhorrent action to happen to ANY child!

I don't quite understand your comment about being selective with who I reply to. I have replied, either individually or as a group, to everyone who has posted a comment directed at me. However, I am done replying now. It is clear that some people will agree with me and some won't. That is their right. However, I will never back down from my belief that what I did was the best thing for my baby given the difficult choices I was faced with. I believe only those who know me and know the father have all the information necessary to fairly judge my actions.

[shadow riderer]

Sally wrote: "And I will not let some third party stranger who knows not me or the father decide what is best for my baby"

But, that's exactly what you did.

[browneyes0707]

Exactly Shadow. The child is in likely in foster care RIGHT NOW. The system will be the ones who decide what happens to your child.

I know you made a tough decision, but realistically, you did what YOU wanted to do. I really hope that you have a healthy relationship with your child someday, but I wonder how you picture telling him that you skipped the state against legal advice to avoid following the law and his father's wishes because you deemed him unfit. I just can't imagine how that will make him feel. I'm pretty sure that's not in his best interest for him to have to live with that knowledge.

Question: if the birthfather knew you were pregnant, don't you think he'll eventually figure out that you gave birth and he doesn't have any papers to sign or a baby to raise?

I keep thinking back to what people say about adoption being a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I know it's too late for you to see that, but I agree with Shadow, go back and try to make this right.

[shadow riderer]

Something else that crossed my mind:

If the father is the vengeful type, and figures out what Brown Eyes mentioned above, what will stop him from hiring a lawyer of his own, in which case. what you thought would solve your problem, only counts as the beginning of numerous problems to come.
He might not have the means, or brains, to do such a thing, but either way, I don't think your problems are over.

[paigeturner]

Shadow,

I've been thinking the same thing. If I were in his shoes I'd file a police report for a missing child. This is kidnapping thru a legal loophole. And the child is, most likely, in foster care right now.

Ugggh. I need to quit reading today.

[RavenSong]

She abandoned the child in another Safe Haven state other than the one in which she resides (California). As I recall, the rationale was the father won't be able to locate the child as long as the baby wasn't abandoned in California.

[sunshinemomma]

Sallie ...I am so sorry that you felt that was the decision that you had to make. Others have stated very clearly why it was an abuse of both the baby's birthright as well as the fathers. You have not mentioned the fathers parents and what they may have done to support their son and grandchild.

The baby is in fostercare no matter which way you look at it. There are other ways that the situation could have been dealt with. The baby could have been placed in a foster to adopt family with an openness agreement. You could have called the father on his bluff and handed the baby to him and then called child services immediately to investigate.

Maybe you can still go back and undo the way it has been done. He will know that the baby has to be born at some point. I don't know what is right for you, the baby's father and most importantly your birthchild.

But I will share the stories of my 2 brothers.

My youngest brother was a teenage party animal. His on again/off again girlfriend got pregnant and he found out after they had broken up. We recommended they think about adoption. We were his family and scared he would never pull it together enough to be a good and safe and responsible Dad.

He said no way to adoption. He said if she chose adoption then he would parent alone. They decided to parent. He has co-parented ever since. He lives in the basement suite of one of my sisters. My other sister does daycare for him as well as others as she stays home with her babies. He stepped up immediately and has grown to be a very good and involved father. His son has all of the relationships with grandparents, aunties and uncles and cousins. If she had run off my nephew wouldn't have any of that. He has just turned 6 and he has all of that.

Brother #2 is older. A dedicated bachelor at 40yrs old. Made sure all these years to never father a child. Never intended to bring a child into this world even if he was married. Similar situation in that a short term girlfriend he had broken up with showed up pregnant. Neither of them were sure it was his.

She explored adoption as a choice. He spoke to me about that choice knowing that we had adopted. We talked about many types of adoption including family and open. It didn't sit right with him. He told her that she didn't have to choose to parent if she didn't want to but if the baby was his then he would not let it be adopted. He would raise the baby as a single Dad. She could choose what was right for her but if it was his then by golly he would parent. He was terrified that she could make the choice without his say. He spoke to a lawyer to see what his rights were. He first had to legally know that the baby was his.

In the end they remained friends and he was there for her during the pregnancy. They remained somewhat in limbo right up and until the baby was born. A beautiful little boy but was it a son, a grandchild, a nephew and a cousin? The happiest day of my brothers life was when that test came back to say it was his son. He could breathe again after so many months of not being sure. He is a grown man with his own business and his life was on hold for so many months over that one little piece of paper.

In the end they too decided to co-parent. Even though they each had their own places they spent the first few months living together so he could support both Mom and baby. We traveled to visit and stay with him for Thanksgiving. It seemed odd that they lived together but weren't a couple so I asked him. His answer was that no they aren't a couple but they are a family. This was they only way that he knew he could support both of them in the early days. I was and remain so proud of him.

Now we have just celebrated baby's first birthday. They have worked it out. My brother has him pretty much half the time, sometimes more and sometimes less, depending on what works for both of them. We are so happy for them.

So again, in the end my 2 brothers that we all thought would never either be a Dad or be a very good Dad have turned out to be exceptional Dads. We are so happy that the girls in their lives gave them that chance.

Now, having said all of that, My daughter was removed from her birthparents because of neglect and abuse. I am also a huge believer of parents making an adoption plan when they do not feel they are ready and/or able to parent. I truly get what a huge sacrifice birthMoms {and Dads} make when they make an adoption plan when they feel it is right for their baby. I wish my daughters birth parents would have been able to be that brave for my daughter. It would have saved her much pain in her young life.

Sallie - I won't judge you for making the decision that you made. I am just sad for all of you that you felt that was the only decision to make. I hope the best for each of you.

SM

[shadow riderer]

I haven't been able to get this off my mind all night. Sally, I hope you are still reading. I keep thinking about my Bmom back in 1965, pregnant, scared, not ready to parent, no help from family, no money, etc, basically scared to death. There was no safe haven law back then, but, it seems to me, there isn't much difference in the SH law and adoption back then. Basically, she gave birth to me, and walked away. You gave birth, handed your son over to a social worker. I was turned over to a social worker, who worked for an adoption agency. The social worker took me to a foster home. I stayed there for two weeks and was taken to another foster home. It was two months before a family was found willing to adopt. Do you know that back in the 60's they made it sound like adoptive families were waiting in line to adopt unwanted babies? Well, they weren't. They had to be found.

Because I don't truly know, I can only assume that the social worker you handed your baby too, did not take your son directly to a waiting and loving adoptive family. I will also assume that there is a time period, in which they must wait, in case the mother changes her mind, before babies under the SH law can be put up for adoption. If that is the case, your baby is with a foster family. Your baby will stay in foster care until an adoptive family can be found. Considering how social services works, there is no telling how long your baby will be in foster care.

My Bmom spent 23 years never knowing if I had ever been adopted into a loving family, never knowing what kind of family it was, always wondering what happened to me. Don't do that tou yourself. It was not an easy thing for her to live with. She went on whith her life, but emotionally, she suffered greatly. I grew up in a very disfunctional adoptive family. You didn't want to parent. You don't feel the father will be a suitable parent. You don't want your child to grow up in an abusive home. My Bmom felt the same in a way. I ended up in an abusive home anyway. Because of her emotional pain of never knowing what happened to me, to this day, 20 years after reuniting with her, I have never told her the truth about my adoptive family. It would devastate her.


As others have said, there are better ways to handle this situation. If your son is going to be in foster care anyways, save yourself years of grief and guilt, please, please go back and find out what happend to your son, and what you can do to resolve this. I don't know who really gave you such horrible advice, I can tell you I hope I never meet them. They did not have your best interest in mind, nor did they have your babies best interest in mind.

You may have succeeded in hiding the baby from his birth father, temporaruly gotten rid of the problem, but as I said before, you've only created more problems for yourself in the long run. Please rethink what you have done, and find someone who can help you and give you "good" advice. I hope you can see you've done exactly what you didn't want to do in trying to keep the father of your son from parenting "his" child.

I want to implore you one final time, go back and find your baby, and try to resolve this in a better way. Social services doesn't care about your son, or the family they place him in, like you will. Do it for yourself, but most of all do it for your son.

[SallieM]

I just wanted to post one final message to this thread to let everyone know that I contacted the social worker yesterday to check on my son and see if I could get information on where he was placed. She did better than just give me information, she arranged for me to meet with the family! I met with them yesterday afternoon and couldn't be more pleased. Once they realized that I wasn't there to take the baby back, they calmed down and we talked for several hours. They are truly a lovely couple! They have already adopted 2 other children from fostercare and consider my son the completion of their family. After meeting them, I truly believe that they will be as good a family for him as the one I originally chose. I did leave them with both my and the father's contact information to give to my son when he is older.

My rights and the father's rights will be terminated at the end of the 30 day wait period, and at that time, his foster placement will officially become a pre-adoptive placement. His adoption will be finalized when he is 6 months old (he must live with the foster family for 6 months prior to finalization).

Thank you to all who suggested that I go back and find out what happened to my son. I do feel MUCH better knowing for sure that he has already been placed with his forever family.