[Amandak249]

I sent you a PM Rylee.

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by Amandak249

Within the sphere of discussion here, where all adoption agencies and Catholic Charities are *to this day* stealing the infant of every woman who walks through their door and selling it to an adoptive family for 30,000....it is a business.

Not "all" adoption agencies charge 30,000, and there are some who actually do unbiased options counseling. They are not operating as a business, but as a true social service agency.

Originally Posted by Amandak249

Unbiased counselors. Does that not suggest that they should lean to neither side? Counselors who encourage women NOT to place are just as biased as those who encourage woman to do so.

True options counseling explores all options. Period. They do not encourage or discourage. They assist the client in determining what is best for them and their baby. Not what they believe is best for their baby.

[happygmom]

Wow! As a grandmother to a child who was deserted by his father, I am having a really hard time making the connection between showing dogs and nose jobs to the agony that a mother who has been marginalized by society, her family, and her child's father goes through in deciding how to best provide for her child.

Deep breath, re-centering -

Yes, to the OP. My daughter chose parenting her son without the support of his father. She has resentment but has the solace of having her son with her. Had we been convinced that it would be "best" for her to relinquish her son, the resentment of his actions would be pathological.

My guess is that the adoptive dad who thanked the "birth" dads was merely grateful that the "birth" dads were not an impediment to a smooth adoption process.

Happy G'Ma

[Amandak249]

Wow! As a grandmother to a child who was deserted by his father, I am having a really hard time making the connection between showing dogs and nose jobs to the agony that a mother who has been marginalized by society, her family, and her child's father goes through in deciding how to best provide for her child.

Obviously they aren't literally comparable. I hope you don't think I was actually attempting to compare the three in any more than a metaphorical sense. Didn't mean to offend.

My guess is that the adoptive dad who thanked the "birth" dads was merely grateful that the "birth" dads were not an impediment to a smooth adoption process.

I am fairly certain that the actual adoptive father whom the original poster is referencing was not doing that. I also hope I misunderstood that quote. That might be very hurtful.

[Whirled_Peas]

Rylee,

I know I'm probably the last person you want on your side, but you are in such pain and that is evident. Are you getting counseling to help you learn how to cope with your feelings and situation?

You mentioned suicide (taking a gun to your head.) That is not pretty. Anyone who is feeling that way needs someone to help them. Do you have a good counselor to help you move pass these thoughts?

If you are considering using your gun, PLEASE call a suicide helpline. If you can't find one, you are always welcomed to pm me at those times. I know you probably don't like me, but that's okay, we blunt folks get used to that. But my offer is sincere.

The statement, "get over it" does not mean forget. It means (to me) finding a way to have a good life despite the hardships we have survived. Please find a counselor who will help you pick up the pieces of your life. There is so much good out there, it sounds like you just need someone to help you figure out how to find the skills to cope with what life has given you.

[AlongTimeAgo]

Originally Posted by Rylee45

What change is EVER going to be accomplished here in this group that is going to change the world of adoption??? This isn't the reason I joined this group anyway.

I joined this group because I wanted support and to support others when I had the energy to. I don't always have the energy to support anyone else. I have days when I can't even get through the day without feeling like taking a gun to my head and ending it all.

I have to walk on freeking egg shells to be around my daughter and even THAT doesn't make a difference. I could give her anything she wanted. Do anything she wanted me to do. Say anything she wanted me to say (and believe me I've gone out of my way to be that way with her) and her no good for nothing adoptive mother makes sure to destroy everything for us! We have to sneak to talk and it's so rare I can't deal with it because her ADOPTIVE MOM decided to threaten her with taking her out of her will if she didn't end the relationship.

That freek who didn't deserve to adopt ANYONE'S child got MY child and then stole my grandchildren too! I live this nightmere every gd day and I'm TIRED of people telling me to "get over it" "move on" or whatever else because they can't handle the anger I feel at STILL living the nightmere and knowing it's because I had NO CHOICE in giving MY baby away!

Knowing that the TINY bit of time I hear from my daughter is probably only because she thinks she's going to get an inheritance when I die causes me even MORE anger and grief and frustration.

If my daughter had been raised by "good and decent people who would love her better than I could" and had been treated with kindness and love and everything I was promised she'd be, my nightmere of losing her would have been over when I met her and found out that she had a good life and that my giving her up was ok. But it wasn't. She was abused her whole life and she continues to be abused. It didn't end my nightmere when she found me. It only enhanced it and I knew it wasn't the right thing for her to have been given away. Now I have to deal with the fact that I can't see MY grandchildren because of that FREAK of an adoptive mother of hers. And I'm supposed to "heal" having the wounds open and vinegar poured into them day in and day out because I miss her so much and can't do a **** thing about it.

Now if I don't walk on egg shells here and don't say everything right and "choose my words carefully" I'm going to get told off about it!

Not everyone is telling me off here I realize but there are those who are getting on my case because I hate adoption. I hate everything it stands for. I hate the way the laws are about "privacy" so the ADOPTIVE parents can be hidden away with the child they have BECAUSE of a girl who was either forced or chose to give that child away. I hate the fact that so many LIES are told and everyone who benefits from the adoption tries to say lies aren't told anymore.

Lies ARE told. Just having the birth certificate amended to say the adoptive parents are the "real parents" and the baby was "born to them" is the FIRST lie down on paper the child will probably see.

I don't care if adoptive families "work" just the fact that they can back out anytime they choose for whatever reason or none at all and that letting the birth mother see her child either in pictures or in person or both through their life being considered a "courtesy" rather than a requirement for an open adoption is WRONG. But the it's the way it is and nothing can be done about it.

Everyone in the adoptive family can be "happy" I don't care about that either if the family doesn't include the birth mother or her family in an open adoption and then they choose to dip out and lie to the birth mother about everything.

I'm sorry if my words aren't chosen carefully. I don't have the energy to try to figure out who is going to get insulted and who isn't. I don't personally attack anyone here unless they attack me first. And whirled peas you seem to think you know it all and you are going to change ME and what I do and convince me that adoption agencies are wonderful and I'm so wrong in the way I feel about everything.

You can keep your rose colored glasses on all you want it isn't going to change how I feel and I'm tired of you telling me that I'm running people off! If I run YOU off since you seem to think you know me so well and beleive you are some "psychic" I couldn't care less. You aren't in MY shoes and you don't have a clue as to what I've been through and it seems you don't care anyway or you'd stop being so rude and judgemental of ME because I don't like what you're saying and I don't agree with you about adoption agencies.

And to set the record straight, IF you've read my comments I have made a POINT to putting in that I realize not all girls are forced to give their babies away. Not all adoptive parents are worthless. Not All situations are the same and not everyone is bad.

Agencies on the other hand are all underhanded IMO and out to get that baby so they can make the almighty dollar. Some will believe their lies and some won't. I don't care if someone had a "good experience" with an agency they are probably the exception. I don't care that open adoptions are now common, they aren't binding and the agencies I'm SURE don't tell the mother that before she gives her baby away and IF they do they don't press the point to make sure she knows and is willing to deal with that if it happens to her. They probably IF they mention it make very light and smooth through it hoping she wasn't paying attention.

But again, NOT ALL women are deceived. NOT ALL women give their babies away because they are being forced. NOT ALL women want to be mothers. NOT ALL adopted children are mistreated or unloved eventually by the adoptive family. NOT ALL situations are the same!

BUT ALL AGENCIES are in it for the money and do anything and everything they can to get the baby so they can make that money. Any counseling or help I'm sure is only to get the trust of the girl so they'll beleive whatever the S.W. says and eventually feel "comfortable" with the idea of having someone else raise her baby. But AGAIN. NOT ALL women/girls are forsed to give their babies away. and NOT ALL women/girls want to parent that child and THEY MAKE THE CHOICE to relinquish. I've made that very CLEAR in my posts. I'm tired of being accused of saying things I'm not saying.

I'm also NOT accusing EVERYONE here of attacking me but I am being attacked by some and you know that!

Rylee

Rylee,
I am new and don't fully know your story, but I'm thinking we are about the same age, and so are our daughters. I also had no choice whatsoever in giving up my child. I was 15, had been raped (or what's now called date-raped), and mom couldn't support another child, as she was already supporting three of us. I hated her for that..... until about 4 years later when I became a single parent and began to understand her situation a bit better.

I try to think of how well my child is doing now, rather than think about the child I "lost," because honestly Rylee, we did not lose our children, we gave them life. Maybe not a perfect life, but life. My daughter was moslested, as were her children, by her adad. Was I happy to find this out? No. I was horrified! I knew where they lived and just wanted to kill him and her amom (because SHE did not protect her), but I knew that that would not help the situation at all. But I did not "lose" her, because she still lives.

Honey, I'm not trying to be mean, but the only time we truly "lose" a child is to death. I say this as the grandmother of a child who died at age 2. We have lost that child forever. He will never have life here on earth. He will never laugh, giggle, go to school, have girlfriends, get married, have children or make me a great-grammie. We truly lost this child, for ever. He is dead.

Our adopted child(ren) has had a chance at life, if not a perfect life, perhaps they are able to seek counseling to help round out their lives, and learn how to live with the lives they've been given. Is there really any guarantee that they would have had a better life with a 15-year-old single mom (in my own case)? While I like to think that my girl certainly would not have been molested if I'd kept her, do I really know that for sure?? Do I really know that something WORSE wouldn't have happened to her? No, if I want to be honest, I have to say I couldn't know that for sure.

I guess my point is, while I hear your pain so very, very loud and clearly, I would like to just offer you some other thoughts. I know also, the pain and heartbreak of those dark days of giving up a child, of wanting to run away just to keep her, and of knowing the hopelessness of that idea also. But I've been thru alot of counseling and done alot of growing to get to a point in my life where I know my mom did the right thing at that time in my life. I wish for you also to be able to get to that point. You gave your child life, and you really don't know that that life would've been any better if you'd raised her yourself.

I'm not by any means telling you to get over it, only to learn maybe a different, healthy way to deal with it. The thought of someone having "days when I can't even get through the day without feeling like taking a gun to my head and ending it all." makes me cry. While I have been in that position, I can't imagine being there anymore. Or walking on eggshells all the time. It's an awful way to live.

I truly hope that you and your daughter can get the help you need, so that you don't have to suffer so.

Hugs, ALTA

[Rylee45]

Alta,

I understand what you're saying but my situation is not as easy as just going on and doing certain things to have peace.

I'm glad you have gotten to that point but I dont' think I ever will. Not as long as I have to take care of my mother (who was part of the reason I had to give my baby away) and have to deal with the brother (whose upcoming birth was one of the reasons I was given for having to give my baby away) who is only 5 weeks older than my daughter and all their problems.

It isn't just as easy as giving in to the pain. I wish it were.

Also I do consider that I lost my daughter. I didn't get to raise her I lost all those years I could have had with her. They are gone to me. I will never get to experience them. Yes I gave her life by not choosing abortion. But she's still lost to me. And so are my grandchildren. Kids I got to know for a few years just to have them ripped out of my life forever and not allowed to see anymore. Being without them is losing them. Losing time with them. Losing the ability to be their grandmother. Losing the right to be at special events in their lives or my daughters. Losing MY daughter to someone else because they decided they didn't want to have biological children.

That was the case for the people who raised her. They had bio children before they adopted her but they were boys and those people wanted a girl and didn't want to deal with the process of child birth again. That's why they adopted my daughter. It's pathetic.

But I do understand what you're saying. I just don't agree with it.

Rylee

[RavenSong]

(((Rylee))) -- I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier when your thread took its latest turn. We've been battling a horrid forestfire and awaiting evacuation orders since last Friday. Fortunately, our power just went back up a couple hours ago, and I don't think we're going to be ordered out unless the winds kick up tonight. (If anyone is interested, it's the Yuba Fire I'm talking about in Yuba County and Nevada County, California. Fire info is available at YubaNet.com | We Deliver News to the Sierra.)

Rylee, people who aren't from our generation simply are not going to understand what it really was like to be us. It's not going to happen... You know, my grandparents used to tell me what the Great Depression was like, what the Flu Epidemic of 1917 was like, but I never will be able to really fathom what all they went thru. I've read the history books and listened to the oral history being handed down...but I did not live it...I did not feel it.

I know you had very few choices...I know this because I didn't either. There was no "researching" your options or "researching" adoption agencies back in those years, especially if you were under the age of 18. Those very limited choices translated into no choice in the grand scheme of things.

I was going to run away like you did...run away and keep my baby. Except I was told in no uncertain terms that if I split, I would be sent to the California Youth Authority, and my baby would be placed in foster care. The very idea of foster care for my little one was too much for me to handle. I was a foster kid as a teenager...it was a horror story. I'm glad that there are good foster parents today, but mine were anything but good. My foster mother passed out drunk every night by 8 o'clock on the couch. I panhandled every afternoon down at the beach in order to eat. I knew other foster kids back then who were undergoing the same thing. Foster care equaled death and misery in my mind when I became pregnant, and there was no way in hell that I would have ever placed my baby into it.

So I didn't run away, and the only option left was to relinquish...I surrendered to the system; I surrendered to adoption.

Even the agencies that were ethical back in those years (and there were a few) have made blanket apologies for those times.

The problem, Rylee, is we're being judged by today's standards and environment by people who either weren't born yet or too young to realize what was going down.

You're going to be a heck of a force to deal with when your mom passes and you focus your energy on adoption reform...that's all I know.

[crick]

Originally Posted by happygmom

My guess is that the adoptive dad who thanked the "birth" dads was merely grateful that the "birth" dads were not an impediment to a smooth adoption process.

Happy G'Ma

Since you only come here when you want to stir the pot it's pretty evident you have no clue what the dad was saying or why. Your comment is out of line and truly uncalled for. If you aren't going to bother actually reading anything and getting your facts right perhaps you should refrain from posting your small minded and incorrect opinion.

[hpfreak080]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

The problem, Rylee, is we're being judged by today's standards and environment by people who either weren't born yet or too young to realize what was going down.

Raven,

I think you are absolutely right. I think in this day and age it's much more uncommon to see a woman actually literally have their child taken away from them purely because of age or marital status. I've had a few friends (one that I'm thinking of in particular) who had her child just a couple of months after turning 18 and she kept her baby (baby was born Jan. '09) and didn't seem to have problems with people hounding her about trying to get her child.

I also have another friend who had a baby when she had just turned 18 and she is in an open adoption with her daughter's parents. She seems to adore her daughter's parents and, so far, nothing unethical has happened to her (i.e. adoptive parents threatening to close the adoption, my friend's requests for contact being ignored, etc.).

For me, it's hard to imagine it differently because this is what I've grown up with and (vicariously) experienced. Hopefully, though, we can all realize that we are seeing things through our own perspectives and respond to people's posts on here accordingly.

Originally Posted by crick

Since you only come here when you want to stir the pot it's pretty evident you have no clue what the dad was saying or why. Your comment is out of line and truly uncalled for. If you aren't going to bother actually reading anything and getting your facts right perhaps you should refrain from posting your small minded and incorrect opinion.

I just wanted to tell you BRAVO on saying this. I was kind of thinking the same thing but I didn't have the guts to actually post it.

In short, I agree with this 100% =)

[happygmom]

Humble apologies to Rylee that sharing my experiences with adoption seems to have diverted attention from your need for support right now.

If my willingness to share the perspective of a mother and her family who faced the gut-wrentching decision about adoption (including not having the father of the child in the picture) is considered "stirring the pot", I feel honored to be labeled a pot stirrer.

Happy G'Ma

[AlongTimeAgo]

Ok, I'm sorry. I thought I might just share what worked for me. Still, I hope you find a way to not feel like taking a gun to your head some days.

I understand your missing all those things with your daughter, I missed those too, with the child I relinquished. But I am still happy that she had a life to live, unlike my grandson, who does not, and so I miss all those with him too. I would gladly give up ever seeing him again, if I could just give him his life back.

I guess we all look at things differently. I'm sorry for your pain.

ALTA