[Amandak249]

Saying that all agencies are dishonest and unethical is like saying all birthmothers are stupid, all adoptees are messed up, and all adoptive parents are controlling.

Blanket statements don't work. They don't work when describing the members of the "triad", and the don't work when describing adoption angencies, the Catholic Charities, and anyone else involved in the adoption world.

It's easy to blame the agencies. It's easy to blame everyone but ourselves, and the people whom we love.

I belong to a lot of "worlds". I show my dog, in the dogshow world there is corruption like you wouldn't believe. In the writing and publishing world there is corruption. In Italy there is so much underhanded dealing I couldn't even begin to describe it. Adoption has it's good points and it's bad points-just like every other societal demographic on this earth.

I was adopted privately through a lawyer. There were social workers and multiple lawyers involved. Adoption does not always feel good for me, as an adoptee. But I certainly don't blame the lawyers. I don't blame the Catholic Charities who made it hard for me to know my birthsister. How could I?

Adoption is a business, as is everything else under the sun. Sometimes the rules and the biases within the system are unpleasant, and sometimes they can be coercive, just like every other business in the world. But a business does not run without customers.

[epenn922]

Originally Posted by Amandak249

Adoption is a business, as is everything else under the sun. Sometimes the rules and the biases within the system are unpleasant, and sometimes they can be coercive, just like every other business in the world. But a business does not run without customers.

I was thinking about the above -- adoption is big business. But, it's the dealing in humans that I find uncomfortable. Maybe that's why we can't have a business of organ selling.

I have heard of some doctors who have done the right thing and set up adoptions without making money -- and doing it because it's the right thing to do. Maybe we need to think about running adoptions like we do organ donations....

I don't know -- just a thought.

[JustPeachy]

My agency was/is a NFP organization, but the aparents did pay a fee. I don't know how much it was back in those days, but I highly doubt it was astronomical. I know the social workers there do not make a ton, like most social workers everywhere. I'm sure the administrators, too, could do far better financially in a for-profit environment. I have issues historically with the way my agency (and most agencies) handled adoptions, but when I was placing, things had improved dramatically. Although I didn't get "options counseling" when I went with them, I already had my mind made up about adoption before I even walked through the doors. I don't feel I was coerced or mislead or manipulated. I'm not an idiot, nor do I think I was brainwashed. I did not understand how hard it would be to relinquish a child, but I don't think one can truly understand the level of pain involved unless and until they have lived it. I feel mostly I was torn between two very difficult choices. Placing my child and giving him the life I wanted him to have but could not provide, or keeping him when I was no where near ready to be a parent. My agency never said I was unfit, or "if you love your baby, you'll give him up" or any such nonsense. OTOH, they didn't say I'd be a great parent, either, with help, or explore parenting with me, but I knew if I wanted to keep him, I'd have to seek out resources outside of the adoption agency. My OBGYN tried to push me to go on welfare and raise my son. I just didn't want to go that route. I did not have to sign papers under duress, I had as much time as I needed to think about my decision. Could they have done more? Sure. Were they perfect? No. Have they gotten better? Yes. They provide options counseling now, for one thing, and explore what kinds of aid a mother is eligible for if she decides to parent, and also offer OA, which wasn't an option at all when I was placing. No, I don't know exactly what goes on behind closed doors there, and if the social workers are subtly or not so subtly pushing adoption, but going by how I felt I was treated in my day (back in the early 80s), I would venture to say they are on the "up and up." Given that, I wouldn't exactly say I was "gung ho" on adoption. I'm not against it, per se, either. It is a painful and difficult road for a mother to go down, no matter how well prepared you think you are for it, and no matter how good your agency is. Sometimes it's just a matter of what you feel is the better of the not-so-ideal choices in very difficult circumstances. And I also feel so much more still needs to be done by even the best agencies (not to mention doctors, nurses, lawyers, and society in general) in terms of how adoptions are handled.

[epenn922]

It seems like it would be a good thing if somehow there was a way for a nmom to be thoroughly counseled and get objective advice about every aspect and every avenue. It does seem like things are much better - lol - 'nowadays'.

Sad to realize what a path of destruction was left in the wake of the 50s/60s/70s ill-informed and closed adoptions. So many women were counseled (by childless nuns) to go on with their lives and they'd have more children. Now, it just seems absurd.

[Amandak249]

OTOH, they didn't say I'd be a great parent, either, with help, or explore parenting with me, but I knew if I wanted to keep him, I'd have to seek out resources outside of the adoption agency. Could they have done more? Sure. Were they perfect? No. Have they gotten better? Yes.

I don't think it should be expected that an adoption agency SHOULD try and convince a mother to not place her child. Just as an abortion clinic should not attempt to convince a mother not to abort, or just like a plastic surgeon should not try and convince a patient not to undergo surgery.

In my opinion, it's like a woman who has a nose job and doesn't like it saying "but the doctor didn't tell me not to!"


It is a womans responsibility to research all her options- whether it be abortion, parenting, or adoption. The more we allow ourselves to settle comfortably in the victim role, the longer we will have OTHER people telling us we are not control of our own bodies and our own decisions.


That's not to say there isn't coercion going on- we all know there is. But it's unreasonable to say that ALL women should and could and would have parented if the evil agencies hadn't overtaken them. It simply is not a fact. Blanket statements do not work.


Though I agree that adoption should definitely be strictly non for profit...in theory that would eliminate a lot of the shifty stuff going on within the industry.

[Whirled_Peas]

Originally Posted by Amandak249

I don't think it should be expected that an adoption agency SHOULD try and convince a mother to not place her child. Just as an abortion clinic should not attempt to convince a mother not to abort, or just like a plastic surgeon should not try and convince a patient not to undergo surgery.

In my opinion, it's like a woman who has a nose job and doesn't like it saying "but the doctor didn't tell me not to!"


It is a womans responsibility to research all her options- whether it be abortion, parenting, or adoption. The more we allow ourselves to settle comfortably in the victim role, the longer we will have OTHER people telling us we are not control of our own bodies and our own decisions.


That's not to say there isn't coercion going on- we all know there is. But it's unreasonable to say that ALL women should and could and would have parented if the evil agencies hadn't overtaken them. It simply is not a fact. Blanket statements do not work.


Though I agree that adoption should definitely be strictly non for profit...in theory that would eliminate a lot of the shifty stuff going on within the industry.

The brilliance in this statement (and the several preceding it) has enticed me to rejoin this thread.

I do not know what it is like to place a baby. I do know what it is like to have your best friend killed at 27. I grieved hard the first few years just like I'm sure birthmoms must. But then there comes a point when you have to choose where you're going with your life.

I spend a lot of time educating people about the dangers of elderly drivers. The man who killed my friend didn't even realize he'd hit her until several hundred yards later when he noticed his car's windshield was cracked. That man should not have been driving. That man killed my best friend.

But it would be erroneous of me to say that ALL older drivers are potential killers. My mother-in-law is 87 and I would let her drive me some place. I do watch her very closely, though, to make sure she is safe, but I do not automatically assume she should have her keys taken away from her.

If I were to make blanket statements about old drivers and if I were to be emotional and judgmental, I would alienate a lot of people. My message that we need to change the way driver's licenses are processed for older drivers would be totally lost. All that my audience would see is me being hysterical. They would not see that my message of screening older drivers is a good one.

I think it is the same about adoption agencies. Making blanket statements that they are all bad dilutes the message. The speaker is the one that looks bad. First because it's not true that all are bad and second because when such over the top emotions are involved, most people tune out the speaker/wailer. By taking a more neutral approach, the message that there needs to be oversight and ethical guidelines of the adoption process is a whole lot easier to hear.

Amandak, your comment about the victim role really made sense. I'm glad you pointed it out.

[Rylee45]

It sure is nice to know that I could have just "researched ALL my options" and taken control of my own body. Wow, that's a novel idea. Why didn't I think of that when my parents were forsing me out of my home and putting me in foster care because I was under the age of 18 and considered "property of my parents" until I was 18 and being put in an unwed mother's home? Gee I wish I'd thought about taking control when I didn't have a job and didn't have the ability to take care of my baby without help. Didn't know about adoption at all, and had no clue I had rights. And no one would help me until I was able to do it myself. I guess I was just "playing the victim" because I didn't want to do anything myself.

Oh and just like a friend dying I didn't realize it was so easy to just go home and "forget after a few years". I guess it's just the same as losing a child. I guess I should have just gone home and forgot like they told me to do at the agency. hummmm Why didn't I listen to them then?

I'm sorry but hearing people saying all this, "all you have to do is research" and just "get over it" after a few years and "go on" and "live" just gets me feeling the whole thing all over again. That's exactly what they told me and all the other girls in the program being brainwashed to give their children up.

Just go home and forget. Just go on as if it never happened and live your life. After all you can have OTHER children, let this one go.

And sure we had all the options to "research" back in the 70's. It was so easy. After all, there was all these people right there ready to help. RIGHT!

If I wouldn't have been put into a jail for kids I would have run away and kept my baby. I did run away and was going to keep her in the beginning but I had no where to go and I didn't have any friends who would help me hide.

When I finally got "caught" the next day after running away I was considered a runnaway and had that on my record with the police and the juvenile detention center until after I was 18. I couldn't run away. I couldn't do what I wanted. My parents had all the control over what was going to happen to me and my baby. They chose to force me to give her away!

I told the agency I wanted to keep my baby and they didn't do anything but tell me my parents couldn't afford the medical bills, and the other bills that were adding up for my care. THEN they go and tell my parents after my baby was gone that they were responsible for all the medical bills anyway!

When they were given the bills shortly after the baby left the hospital, my dad said, "If we have to pay the bills give us the baby back." They never bothered us again for the money!

The agency knew the whole time I didn't want to give my baby away and yet they did everything they could to stop me from keeping her as did the foster mother in the home I lived. I was tackled to the floor when I tried to leave the house to keep my baby and held there because I was fighting the woman and she wouldn't let me go until I agreed to give my baby away and then she wouldn't let me use the phone, leave the house or anything else for almost 2 weeks without her being right there to watch me like a hawk just to make sure I didn't leave without her being able to stop me.

I was 6 months pregnant at that time.

I just get really tired of hearing people telling me, "If you really wanted to keep your baby you could have found a way." and "You had control over your situation." and all kinds of other crap like that. I didn't have that control and I didn't have the abiltity to research it because I didn't even KNOW what was involved in adoption. I wasn't allowed to go to the library or do anything. I was a prisioner. And back in those days the internet wasn't even heard about.

Like it or not, I'm sure I wasn't the only one who didn't have any options or knowledge of laws or rights or anything else to do with adoption and didn't have rights to choose because I was under 18 and under my parents care. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who wanted to run away and keep their baby but the consequences would have been reform school or detention center for "wayward girls" and then had the baby ripped out of my arms anyway.

It seems so easy for some people to assume even in this day and age that ALL girls who get pregnant know automatically to go to a library and check out laws and research everything. It may be easier to get information but I'm absolutely SURE there are still girls who don't know anything about it and are forced into foster care or whatever and MADE to give their babies up because they are under age and the parents refuse to help their child keep the baby.

I'm just tired of all the, "you can or you could haves". NO I couldn't have and NO some people still can't. And YES some people are still getting forced, cooerced, or something else that forses them to give their baby away.

Rylee

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by Amandak249

Adoption is a business, as is everything else under the sun. Sometimes the rules and the biases within the system are unpleasant, and sometimes they can be coercive, just like every other business in the world. But a business does not run without customers.

Adoption is not just a business. If it is a non-profit agency it is also classified as a social service. Social workers and therapists employed by those agencies are required to follow a code of ethics that include informed consent, client self-determination, respect and comittment to clients. As a LMSW who trains adoption agency staff I can tell you I see little ethical behavior among adoption social workers. There are, as always, some stellar exceptions I would be happy to name, but for the most part adoption practice in infant adoption is unethical because the social workers practicing it do not adhere to their own code of ethics.

To expect that a scared women in crisis is going to know what she has to do to insure fully ethical treatment is ludicrist. Most are operating from their sympathetic nervous system. When the "fight/flight" response is online their logic/rational part of their brain is offline. Crisis counseling is rarely a part of the adoption process, yet that is what most need.

Adoption is not like "getting a nose job." It is like going to a therapist and it needs to be treated as such. Any therapist who does not provide informed consent is putting their license at risk. The same ethical rules need to apply to "adoption counselors" as well.

[annierose]

What would the harm be in having all potential women who want to put thier baby up for adoption go through an exstensive counciling stage? It should be mandatory. Remember, alot of these women are young girls. Would you not want this for your own daughters? Would you not have wanted this for yourselves at that age? I can't see any adverse affects in telling these women ALL the options and every aspect of it being explained to them. I don't think anyone who tells thier story is wanting to play the victim. I think we all come here to vent, tell our stories, learn from each other, get advice, etc... alot of the stories I hear are sad, but they are honest, and I'm glad people share them. I gives me perspective and also makes me feel like I'm not alone in my own expierience. We all have the right to our own opinions and feelings, and this is mine. I have nothing but sympathy for those in pain, if I did'nt, I would not feel human. Keep sharing, and keep learning.

[Whirled_Peas]

Originally Posted by Rylee45

Like it or not, I'm sure I wasn't the only one who didn't have any options or knowledge of laws or rights or anything else to do with adoption and didn't have rights to choose because I was under 18 and under my parents care. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who wanted to run away and keep their baby but the consequences would have been reform school or detention center for "wayward girls" and then had the baby ripped out of my arms anyway.

Rylee, No one is doubting how horrible your story was. No one is saying what happened to you was okay. It's not. It's wrong. I am so sad to know that just one person had to go through this. That a whole generation (or ten or twenty) had this happen a lot is beyond devastating.

What you are not hearing is how you sound when you accuse EVERY adoption agency of acting like this. It's not true and so you lose your credibility. You have the amazing opportunity to be a strong voice for adoption reform. Yet you negate it by saying things that are not true. Not every agency is bad.

You are doing the adoption world a disservice when you do not choose your words carefully. Just because you think you are giving a certain message does not mean that message is what is heard. People put up barriers when they listen. How you write (and I assume talk) turns off a lot of people.

Which is more important to you? To be right or to be a voice for change? If all you want to do is vent, then what you are doing is fine. If you want to save even one more person from placing a baby they want to keep, you need to know how you sound to others. Remember, here you are preaching to the choir. Everyone here understands and agrees that no one should be forced into adoption. So if you are making people roll their eyes here, what do you think you would do to people who are not aware of adoption issues?

I shared my story about my friend's death to say I understand loss. My friend was more important to me than my family. She was the most amazing person I ever met. She was ripped away from me and I had no choice about it. Please do not negate that experience as if it is not similar to having a child stolen. It is very similar. We each had a person we loved and cherised ripped away from us against our consent. And it was for stupid reasons. I have not "gotten over it," I have simply chosen not to waste my life by focusing only on the unfairness of what happened to me. It's been 18 years since she was killed. Her 46th birthday is August 28 (or would have been.) I do not let my children suffer because I am living in the wrongness of what happened. I still talk to her. I ask her for help when life is hard.

Noone is asking you to "get over" the loss of your child. I am saying that, if you want to be a voice for adoption reform, you need to see how you come across. Again, do you want to vent or be a voice for change. Whether it's right or not, those are very different voices. If you only want to vent, that's okay. It's just not the choice I would make. I would want to help others. That is why I am careful about talking with people about elderly drivers. It is more important to me to be effective than to vent.

It would help me to know which you are here for--venting or learning how to be a change agent. If what you want to do is vent, then I will leave you alone. If what you want to do is make changes in the adoption world (or even in your relationship with your daughter) I am more than happy to give you my impressions of how I think you could be more effective with your story. Your story is very powerful. You could really use it to help others.

[Amandak249]

I'm sorry but hearing people saying all this, "all you have to do is research" and just "get over it" after a few years and "go on" and "live" just gets me feeling the whole thing all over again. That's exactly what they told me and all the other girls in the program being brainwashed to give their children up.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT! Not everything is a personal attack. I can't speak for anyone else, but I was not referring to your situation by an stretch of the imagination. We are having a discussion, not a debate. What happened to you was WRONG. Beyond wrong. But you are allowing your own awful experience to cloud your view of the modern adoption world. People are undoubtedly still suffering as you have, even in our "modern day"- and you have the potential to be a voice for them. You have potential to help stop those women who are hurting, who are being forced. But... that's not every women, and thats not every agency. Having a powerful attitude is powerful, an extreme attitude is just ... extreme.

I'm just tired of all the, "you can or you could haves". NO I couldn't have and NO some people still can't. And YES some people are still getting forced, cooerced, or something else that forses them to give their baby away.

No one is saying what COULD have happened. I for one know precious little about your situation, and not once have I attempted to make blanket statements about YOU. I am referencing what SHOULD happen. We are not referencing the society of 30 or 40 years ago. I've read the books, I've done the research- and though I can't *know* what it was like, I can understand the time period you're referencing. I'm sure things like that still happen. But insinuating that all adoptions are botched, all agencies are bad, and all birthmothers would not have placed had their counselors JUST told them not to- is ludicrous.

For the parents and families who , to this day, with all the cultural reform we have supposedly undergone- STILL force their daughters to surrender and who do all of the awful things you're family did to you- SHAME on them, and I hope one day they have to look into the eyes of their grandchild, and their daughter, and explain exactly how ignorant and misguided they were.

But making emotionally charged, provocative statements about the way MY FAMILY was formed is rude and un- called for. I want reform just as much as you do. But I want unbiased counseling, agencies who have very little to no fiscal benefit from adoptions, and for women to be given literature on ALL 3 CHOICES- abortion, adoption, and parenting, before they are allowed to enter into any agreement with the agency.

What I DON'T want is a world that blindly discourages women from placing. Sometimes it is right. It is not easy, but it's not always easy to do the right thing, or , in my personal experience, to LIVE with the right thing.

Adoption is not just a business. If it is a non-profit agency it is also classified as a social service. Social workers and therapists employed by those agencies are required to follow a code of ethics that include informed consent, client self-determination, respect and comittment to clients.

Within the sphere of discussion here, where all adoption agencies and Catholic Charities are *to this day* stealing the infant of every woman who walks through their door and selling it to an adoptive family for 30,000....it is a business.

Unbiased counselors. Does that not suggest that they should lean to neither side? Counselors who encourage women NOT to place are just as biased as those who encourage woman to do so.

The goal is unbiased, ethical counseling. Obviously. I doubt anyone here would disagree. But I don't believe it's an adoption agencies job to DISCOURAGE women from placing. Why should they? The reasons are obvious in reference to "for profit" agencies. But for non profit agencies-someone is paying for it. If not the clients, the donors. A non for profit organization is created because someone believes in the virtue and goodness of the idea behind it. Why create a non for profit adoption agency is you do not want to facilitate adoptions. They believe it's good, they believe it's the right thing to do. It's totally unreasonable that they should be expected to DISCOURAGE expectant mothers from making an adoption plan.

[epenn922]

Obviously a pregnancy is an extremely emotional situation. If a pregnant woman does have the emotional, financial, spiritual support she needs, then of course, she wouldn't give her baby up for adoption. Her considering to give up her child would automatically tell me that somewhere, she isn't getting the support she needs. (Not 100% of the time, of course, but it seems to me...)

It seems that in most cultures, extended family steps up and takes care of the baby. Giving away your baby to non-family members seems to be a modern phenomenon -- I may be wrong, but I don't think that ancient cultures would give their offspring to other tribes. And I doubt every person was conceived in wonderful, blissful circumstances.

There's plenty of hurt and blame to go around. I've heard of horror stories from an extraordinary amount of birthmothers from the 50s/60s/70s. Horror stories seemed more of the norm than blissful surrenders. This occurs, I think, more from the 80s on. Of course, you can't say that 100% of anything happened 100% of the time. Maybe there were a few bmoms in the 50s/60s/70s who were from financially, emotionally, spiritually supportive families and wanted to give away their babies anyway -- hmmm.... doesn't sound right, but of course, possible.

I think we're talking apples and oranges. The adoptions or today do not seem to mirror the adoptions of the 50s/60s/70s.

[Amandak249]

It seems that in most cultures, extended family steps up and takes care of the baby. Giving away your baby to non-family members seems to be a modern phenomenon -- I may be wrong, but I don't think that ancient cultures would give their offspring to other tribes. And I doubt every person was conceived in wonderful, blissful circumstances.

Ohyeah. I have lived in Italy for many many years, and my mother and all of my extended family are from Sicily. Let me tell you, when I am there, my family and friends do not UNDERSTAND my adoption. The fact that I have living birthparents astounds them. It's sad. I see my classmates, my friends, young women ( I'm 23) who get pregnant and promptly married, and they are all welcomed into the family. They are so happy with their children, their husbands... adoption is never considered!.

Sometimes I wish our world was a bit more like theirs...

[Rylee45]

What change is EVER going to be accomplished here in this group that is going to change the world of adoption??? This isn't the reason I joined this group anyway.

I joined this group because I wanted support and to support others when I had the energy to. I don't always have the energy to support anyone else. I have days when I can't even get through the day without feeling like taking a gun to my head and ending it all.

I have to walk on freeking egg shells to be around my daughter and even THAT doesn't make a difference. I could give her anything she wanted. Do anything she wanted me to do. Say anything she wanted me to say (and believe me I've gone out of my way to be that way with her) and her no good for nothing adoptive mother makes sure to destroy everything for us! We have to sneak to talk and it's so rare I can't deal with it because her ADOPTIVE MOM decided to threaten her with taking her out of her will if she didn't end the relationship.

That freek who didn't deserve to adopt ANYONE'S child got MY child and then stole my grandchildren too! I live this nightmere every gd day and I'm TIRED of people telling me to "get over it" "move on" or whatever else because they can't handle the anger I feel at STILL living the nightmere and knowing it's because I had NO CHOICE in giving MY baby away!

Knowing that the TINY bit of time I hear from my daughter is probably only because she thinks she's going to get an inheritance when I die causes me even MORE anger and grief and frustration.

If my daughter had been raised by "good and decent people who would love her better than I could" and had been treated with kindness and love and everything I was promised she'd be, my nightmere of losing her would have been over when I met her and found out that she had a good life and that my giving her up was ok. But it wasn't. She was abused her whole life and she continues to be abused. It didn't end my nightmere when she found me. It only enhanced it and I knew it wasn't the right thing for her to have been given away. Now I have to deal with the fact that I can't see MY grandchildren because of that FREAK of an adoptive mother of hers. And I'm supposed to "heal" having the wounds open and vinegar poured into them day in and day out because I miss her so much and can't do a **** thing about it.

Now if I don't walk on egg shells here and don't say everything right and "choose my words carefully" I'm going to get told off about it!

Not everyone is telling me off here I realize but there are those who are getting on my case because I hate adoption. I hate everything it stands for. I hate the way the laws are about "privacy" so the ADOPTIVE parents can be hidden away with the child they have BECAUSE of a girl who was either forced or chose to give that child away. I hate the fact that so many LIES are told and everyone who benefits from the adoption tries to say lies aren't told anymore.

Lies ARE told. Just having the birth certificate amended to say the adoptive parents are the "real parents" and the baby was "born to them" is the FIRST lie down on paper the child will probably see.

I don't care if adoptive families "work" just the fact that they can back out anytime they choose for whatever reason or none at all and that letting the birth mother see her child either in pictures or in person or both through their life being considered a "courtesy" rather than a requirement for an open adoption is WRONG. But the it's the way it is and nothing can be done about it.

Everyone in the adoptive family can be "happy" I don't care about that either if the family doesn't include the birth mother or her family in an open adoption and then they choose to dip out and lie to the birth mother about everything.

I'm sorry if my words aren't chosen carefully. I don't have the energy to try to figure out who is going to get insulted and who isn't. I don't personally attack anyone here unless they attack me first. And whirled peas you seem to think you know it all and you are going to change ME and what I do and convince me that adoption agencies are wonderful and I'm so wrong in the way I feel about everything.

You can keep your rose colored glasses on all you want it isn't going to change how I feel and I'm tired of you telling me that I'm running people off! If I run YOU off since you seem to think you know me so well and beleive you are some "psychic" I couldn't care less. You aren't in MY shoes and you don't have a clue as to what I've been through and it seems you don't care anyway or you'd stop being so rude and judgemental of ME because I don't like what you're saying and I don't agree with you about adoption agencies.

And to set the record straight, IF you've read my comments I have made a POINT to putting in that I realize not all girls are forced to give their babies away. Not all adoptive parents are worthless. Not All situations are the same and not everyone is bad.

Agencies on the other hand are all underhanded IMO and out to get that baby so they can make the almighty dollar. Some will believe their lies and some won't. I don't care if someone had a "good experience" with an agency they are probably the exception. I don't care that open adoptions are now common, they aren't binding and the agencies I'm SURE don't tell the mother that before she gives her baby away and IF they do they don't press the point to make sure she knows and is willing to deal with that if it happens to her. They probably IF they mention it make very light and smooth through it hoping she wasn't paying attention.

But again, NOT ALL women are deceived. NOT ALL women give their babies away because they are being forced. NOT ALL women want to be mothers. NOT ALL adopted children are mistreated or unloved eventually by the adoptive family. NOT ALL situations are the same!

BUT ALL AGENCIES are in it for the money and do anything and everything they can to get the baby so they can make that money. Any counseling or help I'm sure is only to get the trust of the girl so they'll beleive whatever the S.W. says and eventually feel "comfortable" with the idea of having someone else raise her baby. But AGAIN. NOT ALL women/girls are forsed to give their babies away. and NOT ALL women/girls want to parent that child and THEY MAKE THE CHOICE to relinquish. I've made that very CLEAR in my posts. I'm tired of being accused of saying things I'm not saying.

I'm also NOT accusing EVERYONE here of attacking me but I am being attacked by some and you know that!

Rylee

[crick]

That's enough folks...

Keep the discussion respectful and stop the attacks.