[PackDaddy]

Originally Posted by paigeturner

PackDaddy - I get what you're saying, however if I referred to you as an "adopter" or your agency as being in the business of "baby brokering" I doubt many would shrug it off as a small thing – even if I said, “my child’s parents don’t mind those terms…in fact they find them charming.” Or, if I said, “it’s such a small thing! Relax! It’s just words!” I have doubts that what I said would be so easily dismissed.

When I see the word “our” or “my” placed in front of the term “bmom” my first reaction is to wonder if you’re talking about “your own mother”. Words like “our” and “my” indicate ownership or employment. Your child’s biological mother was not placed on this earth to be a breeder tasked with supplying you with a child. The ownership language is troublesome to me. Having said that, it’s an annoyance but I hardly lose sleep over it. When I mention it, I do so with the hope that it will foster understanding of the feelings of many first parents to the other members of the triad; I imagine I hope in vein.

Great post Paige. Your last sentence is why a read these threads by birthmothers to begin with, to help me better understand the different view points. So no it's not in vein it's very helpful. I hope I can provide some understanding as well. I do appreciate all points of view.

I see where the "our" birthmom could be a little confusing and I repect how you explained why it bothers you with ownership/employment kind of connotations. I understand it better, I still don't totally agree but I respect your opinion and will refrain from using it on here.

It truly doesn't bother me what someone calls me, "adopter" whatever. Our daughters birthmom has been a part of several newspaper and magazine articles and you should have read some of the mean spirited comments about all of us. I was totally unaware of the extreme anti-adoption sentiment out there. Names do not bother me, if you put your story out there it's the chance you take.

I kind of agree with the "baby broker" comment about agencies. We didn't use one. We looked into them and something just didn't seem right about them. I have read on here ideas about non-profit type agencies and that sounds interesting to me.

Our daughter's b-mom is definitely not worried about offending us. We have always had a great relationship and she knows she can come to us with anything. But's it's not like I introduce her as "our birthmother" so it's possible I have never even brought it up with her. I will ask her specifically if it does. That being said again I will not use that term on here. It's probably just laziness on my part, it's just easier to type our b-mom than our daughter's b-mom.

And finally I didn't say this was a small issue. I said as compared to other issues involving adoption this is small.

Sorry for intruding on a birthmom thread. I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone. I love my daughters birthmom and respect all of you on here.

[paigeturner]

Packdaddy,

In my opinion you are not intruding here. I appreciate this latest post very much. Your earlier post did come across a little like it was pooh pooh-ing the issues brought up here. But, I’ve been guilty of the same many times.

I continue to learn so much from the other members of the triad here. I believe that I learn the most from the more contentious threads that make me really think about my positions. I’ve been known to change my outlook on many things here!

I do hear in your posts that you think a lot of your daughter’s birth mom.

Just keep in mind that we hear all the time how other people want to define us and at the same time our concerns seem to be dismissed out of hand. It gets rather frustrating.

[PackDaddy]

Thanks Paige, I can understand why my first post came across that way. I am an engineer and my wife complains how tactless I am at times.

Also, great post Susie. What you wrote makes a lot of sense to me.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by PackDaddy

Our daughter's b-mom is definitely not worried about offending us. We have always had a great relationship and she knows she can come to us with anything.

Knowing that she can come to you with anything is great, and it does sound like you have a wonderful relationship with her. (I've followed her blog for quite some time now.) I'm just wondering if she might hold herself back a bit, though, out of a slight fear of offending you.

The reason I ask this is I spent a lot of time yesterday going back over her blogs. And I noticed how when you all got together to celebrate your daughter's 2nd birthday, she was afraid (maybe hesitant would be a better word) to let you know that she thought it was going to more than she could handle. So she went to the party and ended up running outside when her emotions became too overwhelming. (The 2nd birthday is a really hard one for many birthmoms...I'm not sure why that is, but many bmoms I've known throughout the years have an especially hard time with it.)

It's this kind of subtle thing that I think birth/first moms are trying to explain to you. I have a great relationship with my son's parents. (We've been in reunion since he was 18; he's 37 y/o now.) Even though we get along great, there are still many times that I find myself holding back what I really think or feel because I don't want to make them feel uncomfortable. Does that make any sense?

[PackDaddy]

The instance you are referring she left the party and had a crying session with my wife for the most part. I think it wasn't she was hesitant to let us know she didn't think she could handle it but more that her feelings surprised her. It was a very large crowd and from reading the threads on here I understand those can be tough on birthmoms as well.

I understand what you are saying but I think everyone holds back somethings. My point was I do not believe she has any doubt that we would ever pull back or close our relationship with her because she somehow offended us. We've had a very honest relationship through out. During those times during her first semester when she was having her worst times she spent a lot of those times at our house. We've learned things from her blog and have had many of discussions about them.

Raven, how did you find her blog was it from my post on here or from somewhere else?

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by PackDaddy

Raven, how did you find her blog was it from my post on here or from somewhere else?

To be honest, I don't remember how I stumbled onto her blog. I know that it was before you created that thread a few months ago with the link to it.

I know I became aware of her story about a year ago, but I just don't remember how it came to my attention. I do a lot of surfing between blogs and adoption news stories. I don't know if I found her blog by clicking on a link at another website or blog, or if I found it on one of my blog searches at Google.

[SuddenlySusan]

Originally Posted by PackDaddy

For communications purposes, especially on a message board where the typed word can only express so much.

....I know I've referred to my daughter's b-mother as "our" birthmother all the time because she is such a part of our new family.
Now if that offends some I am sorry but she takes it as a complement and it's meant as such. Why that should bother someone that it is not directed at is beyond me. SOmetimes it seems people are looking to be offended.

Sorry for the rant but with all of the other issues regarding adoption this seems very small.

PackDaddy....while I find the "b" term distasteful, it is certainly not my business when it is not directed toward me. I do take offense when I have explained my position ad infinitum to members of these forums who in no uncertain terms refuse to acknowledge my preference, and furthermore choose to bring their incivility to this particular forum.

Having said that, and hopefully put a rest to it, I have a simple question for you. I presume that you do not keep your child's adoption a secret. If that is correct, why not choose to introduce your child's natural mother (the legal term) to others as "my child's other mother." It seems that if everyone knows about the adoption, it should not be confusing to anyone.

I understand that you are saying that you are all very close and consider each other as family. This is the case in my situation as well....we consider ourselves as extended family. The mother that parented my son, however, has never ever referred to me as a "b" anything, let alone "our" anything. It is a diminishing and objectifying reference, simply put.

Of course, I also understand that you are entirely free to call anybody anything....I am only trying to encourage deeper thought regarding the language we use to define others, as well as ourselves.

Sincerely,
Susan...one of two mothers to our son...

[PackDaddy]

If you truly think the term "birthmother" is distasteful then I think we are going to have kind of agree to disagree and move on.

I'm starting to feel like I held the door open for a woman and now I am being lectured on how degrading it is to do that for someone. I'll definitley try to be more sensative on here when it comes to names and labels but some might want to look inward as well and ask themselves if they are not being a little too sensative in the same regard.

I think this horse has pretty much been beaten and now is probably the time for me to bow out gracefully before I offend anyone else. Again I appreciate everyones perspective and respect the feelings of all the mothers on here.