[RavenSong]

Okay, I admit it -- I'm frustrated today. I've read a lot of posts lately about how adoptive moms are the "real" mothers and how adoptees are the "real" children of the aparents. So, two out of the three sides of the triad are real. Where does that leave us, ladies? Are we fake? Did we never exist, or is it that we just don't really matter anymore?

Just who is it that defines us as birthmothers or defines the role of birthmother in today's society? Do you think it's the other two sides of the triad? Is it the adoption industry? Is it the media? Or do we define ourselves and our own roles in our culture today? Personally I'm a bit tired (and very jaded) about letting people who have never gone through what we experienced define who we are as a group.

So I put it forth to you now: are you real? What does it mean to you to be a birth/first mother? If you could stand up on a soapbox in front of the entire world, what would you say? What would you want your children to know? What would you want your fellow human beings to know about you as a birthmom?

What exactly does it mean to be a birthmother? Are we blazing new paths in our culture when we refuse to be silenced...when we come out of hiding and say, "We're real, too....)?

[quantum]

I think one of the things that really bothers me about the 'real' mother comments is that we have it drilled into us that we are making the kind of 'true sacrifice that a good mother can make' in giving up our children for a chance of a better life.

I guess I like the idea of open adoptions. I like the idea of the birth/first mother being welcomed into the adoptive family as someone to share in the experiance of watching a child grow. Although it's tough. I can also sort of understand the idea of the 'real' mother being the one who stays up all night cleaning up vomit and so on. But I guess personally I think of my son's amom as his mom no 'real' in front of it. I am also his mom, but it's different.

I don't understand why people feel the need to push all this. 'the mom who raised me' 'the mom who gave birth to me' Those phrases don't phase me.

What do I want people to know about me as a birthmom?

YES it was my choice.
YES it was probably the right choice
but that doesn't mean it hasn't affected me and that it hasn't been HARD

That's some initial thoughts!

[dklevy]

When I read this I thought of something that I put up on MySpace a little while back. So I'll repost it here :

We've all heard that anyone can be a father but it takes a real man to be a dad/daddy. The same goes for a woman even though it's rarely said. A mother is anyone who births a baby. A mommy is the one that is there to nuture, protect, love, educate, discipline, feed, cloth, wash, tuck into bed, cry with, laugh with, screem "i hate you" and know they still love you, everything. A mom I guess is somewhere in between. I know that's not what we are all thinking about when the word rolls off of our tongue, but I think most will understand what I mean.

I started thinking about all this when I've heard people's reactions to my missing Sarah. Some ask if I would ever try to get her back. If I ever did try to get her back or even think about it. Some go the complete other way and say she's not yours anymore. Thankfully I don't hear too much of the later. Most people are curious, ask a lot of questions and are generally supportive. I am thankfull for that as well. I know I am her mother. But she's been with her mommy every day since birth. I didn't place her because I didn't want to be her mommy. I seek her out now because I wish I could at least be thought of as someone special in her life. I wish I could become a mom to her. Someone who she knew was thinking about her and loves her. Someone who she always knows is there. Not the same as her mommy is, but there all the same. Her mommy is the one whose done it all for her and will continue to do so forever. I just wish I could be there to share some of the joys and the burdens.

Then I started thinking about Mikey and Alyssa. A similar thing goes for stepmothers, stepmoms, and stepmommies. But I think this one is trickier. I think any mommy/mom/mother is put in a hard spot here. They don't want there kids to have a stepmother persay. Someone who does for them out of obligation because they are with their father/dad/daddy. But I don't think most are completely comfortable with a stepmommy either. That's when they feel like someone is trying to replace them or overstep their bounds. And being a stepmommy is hardest too. The mommy part doesn't stop at the end of the visit. When you have that mommy feeling you want the best all the time for them and have as strong of an oppinion as a stepmommy as you do as a mommy. And let's face it ALL of us women thing our way is the best when it comes to parenting! But stepmommies can only talk about how they feel and hope mommy or daddy agrees. Right now, regardless of what I'd like to be I know I'm a stepmom not a stepmommy. I think that's where everyone else kinda wants me to be, including the kids. Backing off is hard because I don't really know how many steps to take. I gues as long as I don't go all the way to stepmother it's okay. And I could always go rushing back in if need be.

That's one of the good things. We are not permanently cemented in any one slot. We can become more or less involved depending on what's needed and wanted. Kinda like how we naturally become more of a mom and less of a mommy as the kids get older . But there are times when a senior citizen still needs their mommy and the mom/mother is right back to mommy again!

I think a real mom is anyone who loves there child and does for their child, whether it's there child by birth, adoption, marriage, whatever. I think the most important and sometimes only important person in making the call of who is a mom is the child. Not that if our children we placed don't see us as mothers that then we are not "real".

It complicated and difficult to put it mildly. I've given up really trying to explain it to people who don't know. They will never really understand even if we talk till we're blue in the face.

[Birthmom12_10_2008]

It annoys me to no end to hear someone refer to the adoptive parents as the real parents. I agree completely that it makes the birth parents look like they don't matter and they didn't do anything, when in fact, if it weren't for the birth parents the kid wouldn't be here.

It also pisses me off because in most cases the child was conceived out of wedlock and it makes the birth parents look like horrible people, and the adopitve parents look like saints, when I can assure you that everyone in the triad has probably done something to make them look bad at one time or another. So that holier than though attitude just pisses me off, and makes me want to smack someone and scream at them that nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes, or have times of bad judgement.

I think birth parents are just as "real" as adoptive parents. Sure we aren't parenting, but that doesn't mean we don't care for and love that child any less than the adoptive parents. Like I said, the adoptive parents wouldn't even have a child if it weren't for the birth parents.

[lovemy2boys]

Hope you don't mind me stepping in...

In my pov (and it's just that - a pov) sometimes, when people say "real" in relation to a parent, I don't think the implication is that the other is "fake"...the implication seems to take on the form that the other is "less than".

And that's why I don't consider my kids' firstmoms as their real moms - because I'm not "less than". And that's why I don't consider myself my kids' real mom - because their firstmoms aren't "less than".

There's room for everyone in this equation, ya know?

[JustPeachy]

I think what stirs up a hornet's nest in this issue is when an adoptive parent, who has done all the work of raising the child, hears the birthmom referred to by others as the child's "real mom." Understandably, I can see how this would feel hurtful, but I don't understand the pissing contests that can come about because of it, i.e. "SHE'S not the REAL mom, I AM!!! It takes MORE than giving birth to be mom, I stayed up all night cleaning pee and poo, etc., etc."

In my opinion, both birth mom and adoptive mom are real moms. I think our language is very limiting, and unfortunately, in society everything has to be categorized in a neat little box, so people cannot seem to wrap their minds around the fact that there are two mothers in adoption. I would never claim to be my child's parent. I did not raise him. However, I am his mother, and more than just a breeding machine. I have loved and cared for him just like any other mother. I wasn't able to raise him, but had I been allowed to be in his life, instead of cast aside due to the "rules" of adoption at the time I placed, I would have been able to be more of a mother to him, and maybe even share some of the parenting.

Personally, the more I think and read about adoption, the more I feel that it is still in so many ways a cruel system in terms of how it treats birth moms. I feel radical changes need to be made, and I'd like to see adoptions move more toward a struture where the birthparents were able to retain at least some of their rights and it was more of a shared, co-parenting type of situation. I don't like the punishing nature of adoption as it is practiced now, even in OA. The birthmom is making such a difficult and painful decision with the best interests of her child in mind, and for that she is treated as someone who must "pay a price" for not being able to raise her child. Why the need to be punative? I will never get this. If we know our limitations, and know we are not able to give our children what we feel they deserve and need, why does that make us "bad mothers?" On the contrary, I think that is something a GOOD mother does, and yet everyone will say we "abandoned" our children or "rejected" them. The whole thing makes me crazy!

As far as who defines us, I say mostly society and this is where individuals get their misinformation from. Although many people know about my child, I'm still very closeted about being a birthmom, because I know, if I DARE say anything, I will be judged harshly. I was already the topic of water-cooler gossip at my job when I was pregnant and placing. I don't need to go through that again, even though I'd much prefer to "come out." I'm not ashamed of being a birthmother, but I do feel very silenced because of the fear of censure, and then I sometimes get mad at myself becuase I KNOW attitudes will not change unless we birthmoms are willing to stand up and refuse to be silenced.

[SoniaRose]

I always had a pat answer to questions about my aparents: "My aparents are my real parents, but I have a special place in my heart for my bmom".

Well, for most of my adult life, all I knew of my bmom was a one-paragraph description of her physical features from the adoption agency. I could only imagine who she really was...

In the past 18 months, I have learned my bmom's name and seen her picture; I have held her death certificate and touched her gravestone. I now know the many difficulties in her life and how desperately she wanted to keep me. She is so very REAL. I am who I am because of her.

I love my aparents, but I don't think I would currently be able to refer to them as my real parents again -- "real" is just a word anyway. Sorry if any aparents take offense at that, but this has been an emotionally tumultuous time for me, and I feel like my life as I have always known it has been turned upside down.

[finallyamom0310]

Originally Posted by JustPeachy

Personally, the more I think and read about adoption, the more I feel that it is still in so many ways a cruel system in terms of how it treats birth moms. I feel radical changes need to be made, and I'd like to see adoptions move more toward a struture where the birthparents were able to retain at least some of their rights and it was more of a shared, co-parenting type of situation. I don't like the punishing nature of adoption as it is practiced now, even in OA. The birthmom is making such a difficult and painful decision with the best interests of her child in mind, and for that she is treated as someone who must "pay a price" for not being able to raise her child. Why the need to be punative? I will never get this. If we know our limitations, and know we are not able to give our children what we feel they deserve and need, why does that make us "bad mothers?" On the contrary, I think that is something a GOOD mother does, and yet everyone will say we "abandoned" our children or "rejected" them. The whole thing makes me crazy!

I hope you don't mind my two cents worth but this comment really struck a cord for me. I am an amom that fully supports OA and have been flamed for already telling DD's BMom that the title of Mother is fully hers and my title will remain Mom / Mommy. I fully share that DD has two women that love her unconditionally just as I felt that way about my SS (his mother didn't feel that way of course). But I can not imagine a situation where adoption would be a co-parenting arrangement. I can't have my rules over turned by my daughters BMom that is only around when we schedule a visit. I also don't think that, if we decide when DD is older and has sleep overs, that she will be allowed to come home and argue with me over rules as my SS did because he had two sets of them. Co-Parenting in my opinion is not adoption. That is like telling the adoptive parents, you are only temporary and in no real way a part of the childs life.

I really don't mean to offend but this definatly struck a chord with me. I will share my daughter as I have promised. But I am Mom and will make the rules.

[belleinblue1978]

I am a mother, no matter what anyone tells me. I nurtured Kiddo in my womb for nine months, nine of the most painful months of my life I might add, had a c-section (not easy to recover from, my friends that delivered vaginally recovered much more quickly), saw him through six weeks of hospitalization, making all of his medical decisions while the doctors treated me like a drug abusing prostitute, refusing to answer my questions and at one point even implying that I have a low IQ. I love that little boy more than life. He is the only child I will ever have, I refuse to be anything less than his mother.

OA is a step in the right direction, I agree, but make no mistake, it is not a welcoming into the adoptive family for every first parent. I have been told that I am NOT Kiddo's family in no uncertain terms. Forget that he is the only biological family that I truly know, forget that I brought him to this earth and that I made his parents his parents. OA can be a very hard, very painful road, just as closed adoption.

I have two sets of very "real" parents. I do have some flip responses for when people ask if I have found my "real" mom and dad. I give them that, stop them in their tracks and then politely explain that all of my parents are real, they just have different roles (albeit not much for my firstmom) in my life.

I will always speak out as an adopted adult and a first parent. I refuse to be silenced. I am a sum total of my experiences and obviously adoption plays a large role in that. I continue to speak proudly of my son and my experiences and always will.

[blessedbybug]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

Okay, I admit it -- I'm frustrated today. I've read a lot of posts lately about how adoptive moms are the "real" mothers and how adoptees are the "real" children of the aparents. So, two out of the three sides of the triad are real. Where does that leave us, ladies? Are we fake? Did we never exist, or is it that we just don't really matter anymore?

Just who is it that defines us as birthmothers or defines the role of birthmother in today's society? Do you think it's the other two sides of the triad? Is it the adoption industry? Is it the media? Or do we define ourselves and our own roles in our culture today? Personally I'm a bit tired (and very jaded) about letting people who have never gone through what we experienced define who we are as a group.

So I put it forth to you now: are you real? What does it mean to you to be a birth/first mother? If you could stand up on a soapbox in front of the entire world, what would you say? What would you want your children to know? What would you want your fellow human beings to know about you as a birthmom?

What exactly does it mean to be a birthmother? Are we blazing new paths in our culture when we refuse to be silenced...when we come out of hiding and say, "We're real, too....)?

I can only speak for myself, and truth be told, I have stopped posting in conversations about "real" versus whatever because I find it incredibly frustrating because adoptive parents seem to, at times (and I know I am generalizing) think it is such a big deal, this kind of terminology. I don't get it.

I don't get it for a couple reasons. The first is this... at least for me, and I can only speak personally about my specific situations, I have never felt less than a real mother, even with knowing and acknowledging from the very beginning that my reality was that my children had another mother who was just as real. In fact, the most basic reality is that if my children did not have another REAL mom besides me, they wouldn't exist. It took us both to make these beautiful kids be who they are. And that is just the bottom line for me. And if one or the other of us is real, and it means, as some like to think, that the other is fake, well, that could mean I'm fake too. And I won't stand for that. I am very real in the lives of my children, the babies I am privileged to parent, and I know that the facts are that they have another mother who is and has to be, regardless of anything else, be made real in their lives.

Discounting the power of nature in a child's life to me, completely disrupts the chances of a child reaching their full potential. They must know, to the extent that they are able, and to the extent that their other families are willing, about their biology and roots, their heritage, those from whom they came. If they don't I would be denying them an essential part of who they are. But in acknowleding the power of nature, that doesn't mean that I am diminishing the strength of nurture, which at least in the cases of my children, the choice by all accounts and evidence before and since, to place these children in another environment was a wise decision. For my children at least, this parenting decision made mostly by their first mothers, was a good one. And that is another reason to celebrate their first mothers in their lives. They chose this way to have their children parented, acknowledging that it was the best way they knew how to do it in that moment. And it has proven to be a wise decision, not because I am such a stellar parent, but because their first families continue to struggle at the most basic level.

The second reason why I don't get that this whole "I'm real, you're not" thing is such a big deal is because I believe that I have the power to define who I am in the world, and others can have a say if they want, but it doesn't mean that it matters. Just because someone says they are real, doesn't mean that I am fake. We can both be real. There's nothing wrong with that. We define ourselves for ourselves and we should not/cannot allow someone else to take away that power. I know that for me, my ability to do this comes from the fact I believe that I belong to an Other~Creator~God and ultimately, He defines my realness and it can't be taken away from me. I know there's alot of people that don't believe that and that's okay too. But for me, it has made it easier to let go and not worry about what others call me, but rather, to find within myself the ability to know who I am, and therefore, allow others to be fully who they know themselves to be.

I acknowledge that it is much easier for me as an adoptive parent in this culture (the adoption world) to find legitimacy. And I hope that I am doing my part to make sure that all who participate here, regardless of their roles are free to define themselves as they see themselves. I really hope that for all of you who struggle, it will be with good result, that slowly but truly, the eyes of the world will open up to the value of all mothers, regardless of the stage in their lives, or of the role they play in their children's lives. I know for me at least, it has been so freeing to admit that I am a mother by another's choice... I would not be a mother if it weren't for the choice of another mother. And that, I will not forget.

I hope that something I have said here has helped you to feel empowered to be AS REAL AS YOU ARE!!!! and (((((hugs))))) for the hard stuff...

[Amandak249]

Adoptive parents will always argue their legitimacy as the parent, just as birthparents will always do the same. I am an adoptee, and though I love my adoptive parents with an intensity that I cannot seem to muster for my birthparents, I will never deny either of them their place in my life.

I know that my life is better without my biological parents being my primary caregivers. There is simply no debate. My birthmother has 9 children, and she has burned every single one. When you look at me, my life and my accomplishments and my successes, you will see a big difference. There are 9 people in this earth who have the same mother as I do, the same genetic makeup and the same familial history. I am the only one (except for one other sister of mine who was adopted too) who has thrived.

Giving birth does not make you a mother. Love does not even make you a mother. Anyone can give birth, nearly everyone can love. It takes more than that. Being a biological mother is easy- being a mother is not. My birthmother gave me a set of genetics, and a life that my mother could not. But my mother gave me everything else which my birthmother could not. I am made up of 4 people- my adoptive and birthparents.

My mother is my birthmother, plane and simple. She gave birth to me, and for that I will never deny her. But as a mother? No. She has done very little mothering, has taken very little of the responsibility for my life. She created my life, true. But I am who I am primarily because of my adoptive parents, who have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars raising me, spent hours loving me, spent weeks off from work when I was sick, who encouraged me and comforted me when I felt sad.

When you relinquish a child, whether you were too young, too old, too poor, to uneducated, too busy, too sad- you relinquish your right to be a mother. When you sign those papers, someone else will mother that child. It doesn’t matter if you were forced, if your parents made you do it, if you loved your child or if you didn’t. I think it is safe to say that every mother loves her child, at least in a primal sense. Birth isn’t enough. Love isn’t enough. Good intentions aren’t enough.

My birthmother gave birth to me, kept me for a while, and then let me go. She gave up her rights as my mother willingly and without duress. She said goodbye to me. I do not feel that I, as an adoptee who has been raised with wonderful parents, owe her the term “mother.” I love her, and give her every respect in the world. She gave birth to me, and she WAS my mother for a few short months. She loved me, and then placed me for adoption. She still loves me, and I love her as well. She made the CHOICE not to raise me, not to mother me, and my adoptive parents chose to take her place. They could have have given birth to me, but my birthmother could not have raised me (at least at the time).

I wouldn’t be who I am without the both of them, and none of the adoptees on this site would be who they are without ALL four of their parents.


All the birthmothers here gave life, and they gave love. They also gave everything to their birthchildren, most of whom have gone on to thrive and live wonderful lives. The adoptive parents have put their own needs aside, and have raised their children beautifully, just as parents do.

In the eyes of science, I have only one mother. In the eyes of the law, I have only one mother. In my eyes, I have two. One of them is my birthmother, and the other is my mother. Plain and simple.

[dpen6]

I, as the adoptee HATE the pissings contest that goes around, buzzes around the parentage of the child. There are adoptees based upon their personal experiance thatwill call bparents real, there areadoptees that will call their aparents real.....and IMO its ok because its where they are coming from,,. Most don't mean disrespect unless they arecoming from a place of hurt...and everyone knows how that feels right?

In my case, I grew up with kids asking me all the time "how come your REAL mother GAVE you away." Put me right on the defense. If my mom was not real, she must be not as good, therefore neither was I. Thereality is/was in my closed adoption my mom was my only reality in terms of mothering. I knew nothing else...so ya...she was my real mother, in spite of what everyone thought.

The horrible reasons for placing didn't even come into play, my bmoms feelings were not even a thought...closed adoption...she was not real to me. I had to deal with explaining that ...time and time again. After awhile it bewcomes rote and feelings become hard...they have too..in order to justify my place in my family, I had to justify time and time again that yes, my family is real and yes we are justlike any other family. Deep down I was always wondering...it is true? Is my family the same as others or not....Am I differnt...not as goodd as? Was there something wrongwith the women that gave birth to me? Does that affect who I am? Does that make me less then other kids? Do I not really "know" what it is to be in a real family.....I had to deal with others looking at me funny because you know "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" expecially with the nuns! Had to continually defend MY family, MY mother in order to protect myself and the thoughts that I was not as good as....

My amom WAS REAL...she had to be...it was my reality and in order to survive she had tobe real!!!! This all in the subconscience mind of a little child and teen searching for indenity...even as a young adult and meeting my bmom I NEEDED to hold on to that because otherwise what was the point of me being here to begin with, what was the point of me having a family andlivingthefamily life ifitwas't real.....I guess some may feel it was ok to feel less then?

No matterwhat thereasons, I was put in that situation.

When i met my bmom my self defense was so strong I didn't let myself feel anything...if I didthen my whole childhood, daughterhood, family life was a big fake story

It was't until I was sitting in the services of her death thatI actually allowed myself to feel the depth of losing her...and again had to coveritup as I was sitting with strangers..could't let them see me upset...after all I was "the one she gaveaway", I was a point of curosity...stuff those feeling deep down and continued with its ok...everything is ok.....

So you see, its NOT just about "loyality issues" towrds my mother...its more so how I percieved myself that made her real and bmom less real. But never felt I could let anyone really know how I felt because the issue was't me at all...it was how my mothers would feel.

So all and all...I personally didn't mean to offend anyone in my feelings...but itis my reality.

[kakuehl]

Hmm... What is a real mother? I personally am an "earth mother." I will mother anyone who needs mothering. (I work at doing so in a healthy way, lol) I have a number of women who call me mother who I neither gave birth too nor adopted. It's who I am. I love the children I "birthed" with a mother's love. D does not call me mother, nor do I expect him to do so. Our relationship is unique to us and I love that he chooses to be in a relationship with me. If he didn't want to hear from me again, I would love him the same and rejoice that I got to see the man he has become. I know this doesn't quite address what you are talking about Raven; these are my own thoughts about myself. Ultimately, my primary relationship is with God; it is he (she?) who judges us. I thank God that judging others is not my responsibility.

[Amandak249]

DPen--

You hit the nail on the head. Though we are forever real to our birthparents, they are not always so real to us. They want to feel loved, they want to feel important for having given birth to us. What they don't always see is how we, as adoptees, have already considered very deeply who and what is important to us in regards to family. And you know what ? Who has been there for us since birth? Our adoptive parents. They are the most real to us. They are who we see everyday. Our mothers have mothered us, whereas our birthparents have seemingly dissipated into the woodwork (regardless of their actual intentions)


I think our parents have every right to be considered our "real parents." They've done the majority of the parenting. Our birthmothers gave birth to us, and then made a choice they felt was right that removed us from their lives. I recognize and love my birthmother for who she is and what she did, but I don't know that she will ever be my "mother" in the sense that is being discussed in this thread.

[Janeytwo]

Ravensong

Did we never exist, or is it that we just don't really matter anymore?

Hey bud.

I hope I don't sound blunt. You are too dear a friend to speak platitudes to.

Do you want to know my percieved thruth?

Well, I cannot speak for the birthmothers of OA.

But for the women of the Closed Era? No. We do not matter.

With rare exceptions on the part of enlightened souls on the outside looking in....with those exceptions....we will never be respected or understood and I think that when we've accepted that, then and only then, can we go forward.

But as long as we keep looking to others for validation, as long as we keep feeling the need to explain ourselves, as long as we keep apologizing for what was? We will remain in the basement.

The goal to attain is for us all to truly come to understand that it does not matter what anyone outside of our experience thinks of us. It only matters what we think of us. That will be our saving grace....my saving grace....and when we all reach that apex, we can leave people to argue and live our lives in peace.

That may mean that we live apart; that may be the price we must pay but really - given all we've witnessed - is that such a terrible price?

It is up to the young women of OA on all sides to blaze this new frontier. Our job is to be able to live with some serenity.

And that can happen. I've got to believe that. That has got to be my new mantra. Anything else just may be the death of me.




lovemy2boys You are not "less than" my dear friend. And never will you be. I once told someone that I've seen the smile on your face and the sparkle in your eyes when you talk of your sons. You are proud of them and love them dearly.

You are a mom in every sense of the word and I would challenge anyone to say different to me.


Amandak249

When you relinquish a child, whether you were too young, too old, too poor, to uneducated, too busy, too sad- you relinquish your right to be a mother. When you sign those papers, someone else will mother that child.

Thank you for clearing that up.