[Janeytwo]

Crick

the common ties everyone has points to the same need for understanding and acceptance.

Our voices are all important, but not always right for everyone and you know....that's okay.

I was going to add something but this is perfect as it sits!!!

I knew if I asked you and Kathy to post, that good stuff would come out in here!



Thanks!

[In_limbo_for_now]

From what I read it seems there is self-doubt and a feeling being abandoned which both birthmom and adopted child have to deal with. Though it may be the best for both mother and child to make the adoption decision there is little support and sometimes very little understanding of how both parties feel. The child may feel abandon or wonder what was wrong with him/herself. But the mother it seems would feel the same doubts and maybe wish that things were different and that they did not leave the hospital with empty arms. birthmom may hope to share in the child life in some way. To feel left behind sucks!! To make the choice to be left behind doesn't always mean you are joyous about it.

You all are welcome to tell me I am way off base but this is how it seems to me, and I have thick skin and have been wrong before...

[lahdh4]

I have thought about this alot.
I cry
I scream
I smile
I bleed
I am real.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by belleinblue1978

I'm one of those people that is a short timer and actually a lifer. It's so difficult and emotional sometimes and I don't know where I fit. I feel silenced as an adopted person sometimes and sometimes as a first mother. I feel like I can't win for losing.

Belle, I think you got a double whammy in life...I know it's really difficult for you at times. Do you have any idea, though, how much you are valued here on the forums? You're one of my joys, kiddo -- I always look forward to reading what you have to say on the different threads.

Originally Posted by belleinblue1978

I will say, when the going gets tough I think of those that have gone before me...

I do the same thing, Belle. When I start feeling sorry for myself (which seems to be happening a lot lately), I think of the women who only two generations before me were thrown into state mental hospitals and insane asylums for the crime of becoming pregnant outside of wedlock. That is what happened to many women in the first half of the 1900's, especially if they were unwed teenagers. Their fathers could simply commit them to the asylums, no questions asked. Even if they didn't land up in the looney bin, the social workers deemed them "feeble minded"...in later years they were labeled "delinquent". If you ever want to be horrified, there are some old books and social-work journals available thru Google Books from that time period.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by bromanchik

Raven, you have no idea as to whether or not your words matter. More than likely you have touched thousands of souls without being aware of it. How do you know how just one of your posts made the difference in the lives of others? That is what pay it forward is all about. We send things out there and we do not know the chain it creates.

Brenda, I want to thank you for giving me a wake-up call on this thread. It's funny...shortly after I posted my last response on this thread (the one that you replied to), I thought to myself, "Brenda's probably going to put on her therapist hat and knock some sense into me." It's strange...I worked thru so many of my birthmom issues a long, long time ago and healed from a lot of the pain. But lately I've noticed that I still get triggered at times. I don't know if it's because when I'm trying to help another birthmom, I often go back into my own memories and recall the feelings and experiences. Maybe I am tearing open old wounds or something.

Originally Posted by bromanchik

I keep plugging away (and I think you do too) because we truly believe in our hearts that what we have to say matters. And if it just touches one life, it is worth the work, and making ourselves vulnerable by putting ourselves out there.

Yep, you're right...I do keep coming here and plugging away because deep down in my heart, I believe that our voices do matter. I know that by sharing our experience, strength, and hope with other birth/first mothers, we help each other in the healing process.

Originally Posted by bromanchik

In the Velveteen Rabbit, the little stuffed rabbit becomes a real rabbit not only because he has been so loved by the little boy, but because he loved that little boy first. Loving our children, whether they love us back or not, is what makes us real.

You've said something really, really profound here...something I have to think about today. (I think I'll also pick up a copy of the Velveteen Rabbit at the library.)

Thanks for your help, Brenda.

[Janeytwo]

Ravensong Hey there!

I know that by sharing our experience, strength, and hope with other birth/first mothers, we help each other in the healing process.

I think that's the key right there. If other people pick something up along the way in what we say then that is a good, good thing, but we must -IMO - be saying it for ourselves first.

It's like with Bill and Bob. They were helping each other deal with a powerful illness that had them both it in its grip. Later, AA/NA would come to be respected so much so that the courts of the land would recognize it as a positive force. But that's not why Bill and Bob did what they did.

That's how I see it. Yes, we may change the way people view birthmotherhood (though if you'll pardon me my dear dear friend - I won't wait with baited breath for that to happen), but that's not why I share.

AA/NA takes a lot of flack from the uneducated. From those in armchairs who either wouldn't know addiction if it came up and bit them in the rear, or those who've suffered beneath it and have nothing but hate left in them.

The members just keep going. When they're called the ugly names, they simply smile and shrug and say, "My name's Paul, it's tween y'all." They don't bow and scrape to what others have decided they are. And they must be doing something right, buddy. They've got how many members now? I know it's in the tens of millions.

They accept their past actions, atone for them with themselves, their loved ones and their God. They understand that there will always be those outside looking in with hard hearts and closed minds. They acknowledge that and continue on. Otherwise, the hard hearts and closed minds win.

I hope that made sense. Guess I'm just coming to feel that I can't fight prejudice by yelling at it and/or trying to reason with it. I can't reason with hate. I can only do my very best not to give in to it.

Thanks for this thread! It's great!!


BelleinBlue Hey Belle! There was this famous man back in the 60's during the heydey of the Civil Rights movement.........uhmmm....I actually looked for this thing that he said on the net so I could quote him by name with the actual quote but I couldn't find it. I remember it well though because my mom taught it to me as she felt it was important. I hope you can bear with me because I feel that this applies to those in the unique position of being adoptee/birthparents.

Apparently the man said (loosely quoted) that the only way the line between White America and Black America would ever be erased was when all White Americans and all Black Americans married and had children. He said he believed that only when all of our children were mixed-race would we make peace with each other because our love for our children would overcome our distrust and hatred.

Whether or not that man was right I cannot say. I am from the most racially segregated city in the United States and have my druthers about people's ability to see past color. It would be a good thing though.

But to my point.....whenever I think about you and the other few adoptee/birthparents I've met in here, I think of that quote.

IMO - you are all living in a strange country where you are neither black nor white but a combination of each. Not fitting in on either side yet part of both. Coming at arguments with an understanding beyond those of us on "separates sides of the road" as it were. You guys are like the proverbial 8 Mile; a deviding line between one faction and another. Yet the road that forces both to meet in the middle.

How does a person get adoptees and birthparents to see our commonalities beneath the shadow of adoption? How does a person get people to live in peace with that? I imagine it is eternally frustrating to truly "be" both sides of an argument yet because you are both sides, both sides argue with you about how wrong you are!!!

I can't think of anyone treading a more challenging path. I believe you tread it well, Belle, with dignity and compassion. You really do!

[my2sons]

Im sorry that you feel this way. In my opinion anyone can be a mother but it takes someone special to be a MOM. I do have a mother, she carried me under her heart for 9 months and loved me enough to want better for me. And I have a mom, she carried me in her heart for 44 yrs and loved me enough to give me the best life. Who are we to say that someone who gave birth to us is not our mother? What is she if not a mother? I do agree on the fact that my mother is just that, my mother and my mom is my mom. But I bet the love was no different.

[barbie12]

I agree... I consider myself the "real" mom. My love and connection with my child will always be.....only the "real" mom understands the "bond".

Others say things like you gave up your rights...the adoptive parents raised the child ....

But the unseen connection, the bond, the energy is never given up......

That is why many write/research adoptions because of the many dimensions the unseen bond, connection that can not be broken..

Only "we" adoptive children and bio parents know...

[LasVegasMom]

Do I exist? Yes. Being from the closed era, I felt that I never ever existed to my son. Boy was I wrong. My son's aparents were reminded of me every single day because my son longed for both of his mothers. He has two moms, two dads, and I try to keep the "real" or "first" or "natural" or whatever out of the equation. It is not fair to his mom who raised him for me to act like I take precedence or something. I am grateful he calls me mom, mother, even mommy sometimes even though he's 28! It is special to me. However I have noticed that he refers to me as "Tracy" when he talks to his mom but refers to his mom as "mom" when talking to me-some unresolved issues there for sure.
What do I want to world to know about me as a birthmother? That I love my son, have always loved my son, would jump in front of a truck for him, that I made a lifechanging decision for both of us at a young age that was the hardest thing I could ever do, that I never ever forgot him, that I thank God every day he found me again. That I love his family, his mother and father and sisters because they made him who he is today, that I love his mother because she did the job I could not do, which was raise my son. The labels don't bother me anymore, as long as I have HIM in my life, as long as my family is complete again, as my grandmother used to say, it will all come out in the wash!

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by barbie12

I agree... I consider myself the "real" mom. My love and connection with my child will always be.....only the "real" mom understands the "bond".

Others say things like you gave up your rights...the adoptive parents raised the child ....

But the unseen connection, the bond, the energy is never given up......

That is why many write/research adoptions because of the many dimensions the unseen bond, connection that can not be broken..

Only "we" adoptive children and bio parents know...

Actually, many adoptee get stressed, feel torn, and have their own opinion on who the "real" mom is.

It really is horrible to feel we have to "pick" due to circunstanses that belong to us...its our existence that is making someone real or unreal.

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by LasVegasMom

Do I exist? Yes. Being from the closed era, I felt that I never ever existed to my son. Boy was I wrong. My son's aparents were reminded of me every single day because my son longed for both of his mothers. He has two moms, two dads, and I try to keep the "real" or "first" or "natural" or whatever out of the equation. It is not fair to his mom who raised him for me to act like I take precedence or something. I am grateful he calls me mom, mother, even mommy sometimes even though he's 28! It is special to me. However I have noticed that he refers to me as "Tracy" when he talks to his mom but refers to his mom as "mom" when talking to me-some unresolved issues there for sure.
What do I want to world to know about me as a birthmother? That I love my son, have always loved my son, would jump in front of a truck for him, that I made a lifechanging decision for both of us at a young age that was the hardest thing I could ever do, that I never ever forgot him, that I thank God every day he found me again. That I love his family, his mother and father and sisters because they made him who he is today, that I love his mother because she did the job I could not do, which was raise my son. The labels don't bother me anymore, as long as I have HIM in my life, as long as my family is complete again, as my grandmother used to say, it will all come out in the wash!

Las Veges mom,

I too, beingfrom the closed era never saw my bmom as real...she was not there, she was a story, a big question mark regarding how she actually fit into who I was. Unfortuanly during the closed era that was "how it was suppose to be".

As we have evovled most of us see it as you said...their are 2 mothers that make up this child. that is fact, its reality and no amount of squabbling over who is real or not can change it.

I do understand how both mothers can get hurt and confused when the squabbling starts because when one is saying the other is not real, or that one is more real it can be seen as minimizing and an attempt of one side to gain power over the other....thats sad and realy unnessesary. The true way to celebrate the child is when both mothers, adoptees, society would just acknowledge yhe fact that both are real!

[kimkrantz]

I think the problem is not what "they label us" or how we "label us", it is society still has a very jaded view of birth mothers. I think allot of us birth mothers to feel guilt, and sorrow and all the emotions we have, what ever reason we choose to place our children for adoption do not go away when that happens. We still suffer depression, we stilll feel alone, and now we hurt and feel whole diferent kind of loss and emptiness in our lives. We tend to try to grasp at a label that makes sense to us.

I do not care what terms anyone wants to use, I am just me. I am not sure what I should refer to myself as. I do consider her my child. However, I do think her parents, and she has the right to think of me however they want. tI am sure they have emotions, and fears, and their own personalities that make them think and feel the way the do.

As for adoptive parents, I myself do consider them her parents. That was my goal, I wanted her to have a stable home, with two parents that would love her just as much as would have liked to.

[CGoldenthal701]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

Okay, I admit it -- I'm frustrated today. I've read a lot of posts lately about how adoptive moms are the "real" mothers and how adoptees are the "real" children of the aparents. So, two out of the three sides of the triad are real. Where does that leave us, ladies? Are we fake? Did we never exist, or is it that we just don't really matter anymore?

Just who is it that defines us as birthmothers or defines the role of birthmother in today's society? Do you think it's the other two sides of the triad? Is it the adoption industry? Is it the media? Or do we define ourselves and our own roles in our culture today? Personally I'm a bit tired (and very jaded) about letting people who have never gone through what we experienced define who we are as a group.

So I put it forth to you now: are you real? What does it mean to you to be a birth/first mother? If you could stand up on a soapbox in front of the entire world, what would you say? What would you want your children to know? What would you want your fellow human beings to know about you as a birthmom?

What exactly does it mean to be a birthmother? Are we blazing new paths in our culture when we refuse to be silenced...when we come out of hiding and say, "We're real, too....)?

I know exactly what you are speaking of. I feel when I receive mothers day cards from my parents and my fiance, I that I am a mother. I carried him for 8 months and I did so as though I was keeping him.
Just because we don't stay up and clean their diapers doesn't mean we're not their mothers.
You gave the best gift as a mother to their child, as people keep telling me. You did as any mother would do protecting your child.
So I guess I'm saying
we're real mothers, who
deserve mother's day cards
too.

[NanieB44]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

Okay, I admit it -- I'm frustrated today. I've read a lot of posts lately about how adoptive moms are the "real" mothers and how adoptees are the "real" children of the aparents. So, two out of the three sides of the triad are real. Where does that leave us, ladies? Are we fake? Did we never exist, or is it that we just don't really matter anymore?

Just who is it that defines us as birthmothers or defines the role of birthmother in today's society? Do you think it's the other two sides of the triad? Is it the adoption industry? Is it the media? Or do we define ourselves and our own roles in our culture today? Personally I'm a bit tired (and very jaded) about letting people who have never gone through what we experienced define who we are as a group.

So I put it forth to you now: are you real? What does it mean to you to be a birth/first mother? If you could stand up on a soapbox in front of the entire world, what would you say? What would you want your children to know? What would you want your fellow human beings to know about you as a birthmom?

What exactly does it mean to be a birthmother? Are we blazing new paths in our culture when we refuse to be silenced...when we come out of hiding and say, "We're real, too....)?

I gave birth to a daughter in 1963. I searched for and found her in 1989. In those days, birthmother's were told if they truly loved their child, they would surrender it to a better home and not let them have the scar of being "illegitimate". You were told it would be selfish to keep your beloved baby. Once done, it was never spoken of again, and we grieved and cried alone, and never, ever forgot.

I am so blessed to have now such a wonderful, warm and loving relationship with my daughter and her 3 children. Her adoptive father accepted and embraced and thanked me. Her adoptive mother never has and even lied and denied the adoption. Everyone's journey is different. My only concern has always been my child. She is more whole having all her questions answered, and when she is troubled, it is I that she calls and turns to. She is now complete, and that's all that matters. Don't let anyone, anyone make you feel diminished any longer. Our children have a right to ALL of their background and all the love that may be waiting for them. I guess I will never be her "mom", though I am in my heart, but I am her mother...and even more special, her very, very special friend who gave her all the answers and missing love she needed and had a right to. We should never, as birthmothers, any longer hang our heads in shame and feel unworthy. Hope this helps some!

[RavenSong]

Kim, Goldenthal, and Nanie -- First of all I'd like to welcome all three of you to the forums! We've got a lot of really great members from all three sides of the triad here. I'm made a lot of wonderful friends, and I'm sure you will too! Second, I apologize for not seeing the new replies to my thread -- I haven't checked my "Subscribed Threads" list in a while, so I was surprised tonight to find new posts made on it.

I think many of us have shared the same struggle when it comes to how we define ourselves. I know that how the world views me and how I view myself are two very different things. I know in my heart that my son has two mothers, and I am one of them. I know I never gave up the right to love him, to cherish him, to want the best for him, to pray for him. I never lost a sense of being connected to him in some spiritual way, not even in the days when I didn't know if he was alive or dead.

I've had people tell me that I have no right to even love him...as if that is a feeling that can simply be turned on or off. There are some people, even within my own family of origin, who believe I have no right at all to receive the love my son shows me. (We reunited 19 years ago.) I never know what to say to those people -- how do you explain a primal connection that you don't quite understand?

Nanie, you placed your daughter for adoption nine years before I surrendered my son. I know the times you speak of, and you are so right about the mindset back in those days. We were all told that if we truly loved our babies, we'd let them go. I remember being told that the most selfish thing I could do would be to keep my baby. A lot of people nowadays don't realize what it meant back then to have a child outside of wedlock and the mindgames they played with us. Love = Relinquishment...what a cruel world it was. Some days I wonder if it would have been better if I hadn't loved him so much.

I read a really interesting study a couple years ago about birth mothers. The researchers went into the study with the hypothesis that the majority of birthmoms came from seriously dysfunctional families, many from abusive homes. By the time the study ended, the researchers stumbled across an unexpected finding. They discovered that almost all the birthmoms in the study rated really high in "overprotectiveness". At first they thought that birthmoms became overprotective as a result of relinquishing their firstborn children. But then it became clear at some point that these women were most likely very protective mothers to begin with. The study's authors concluded that many of us may have relinquished our children as the ultimate way to protect them, not only from our own chaotic or dysfuctional families but also from a cruel society that stigmatized illegitimate children.

Nanie, it's so good to hear of another positive reunion that has resulted in a lifelong relationship. It's really amazing when you think about it, isn't it?