[paigeturner]

Originally Posted by Amandak249

Though we are forever real to our birthparents, they are not always so real to us. They want to feel loved, they want to feel important for having given birth to us.

I work very hard when I post here not to speak for other members of the triad…or even for other first parents. So, I get my back up when someone makes blanket statements in an attempt to speak for me.

Amanda, I am loved. My daughters love me; they admire me. I don’t feel important for having given birth to them, any more than I want to feel important to the son I relinquished for the mere act of giving birth. The act of giving birth…IMO is not a big deal…it’s the stuff that came before and comes after that is important. I nurtured all of my children from the time I found out they were nestled inside of me. I sang to all of them, read Shakespeare to them, lectured them about the importance of choosing their own religion and urged them to grow up with a strong backbone.

I didn’t do those things to feel “important” or because I needed to feel “loved”; I did it because I loved them; with an intensity that I cannot explain. Am I real? My daughters think so. If my son doesn’t then I suppose he has the life I was told he would have when I placed him. That’s a good thing in my opinion. But HIS opinion is really the only one that matters to me.

I have enough confidence in myself as a human being that it just doesn’t matter to me that others may believe there’s only room for one mom. That’s their disability IMO. I will, however, be here to fight against the stereotypes about women who relinquished a child. I refuse to be intimidated by those who wish to disenfranchise us. I am not broken. There is nothing I require from the son I parted from so many years ago. But, should I ever have the opportunity to meet him, I have a lot to share and so do my daughters. Whether or not he “needs” more love in his life is not the issue; the love is already there should he wish to have it. It’s there, without strings, without expectation.

[Amandak249]

Janey- I don't think that sarcasm is warranted, nor is it especially appreciated. I have had full relationships with both my adoptive and my birthparents, and I certainly have developed a strong idea about who means what in my life (as if it's possible to actually define it!)

I meant no disrespect, I was merely giving an adoptees point of view, one that I've seen often.

I think it's a pity that in order for one mother to be "real" the other has to be "fake."I am made up of four people, four people who all want what is best for me. I don't, however, feel that all four of those people have contributed to my life in the same way. My birthmother is who she is, and my mother is who she is. I couldn't be who I am without both of them, and I'll never tell my birthmother that she is not important, or that I don't love her. She IS important. For the first months of my life, she was everything. She is a loving, woman who has some demons. I would love a relationship with her, if she was able to have a healthy one. She will always be a part of me. I just have reservations with giving her the "title" mother. Merely my opinion, Janey. I mean no disrespect, and I apologize if I have hurt your feelings. Not my intention at all, please accept my apologies.

[Amandak249]

Oh Paige, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to speak for you, or for birthmothers in general. I see that I've upset everyone by disagreeing. I tried to express my feelings as eloquently as I could, but I suppose I can only speak from my own experience.

You have written something beautiful, Paige, and I agree with everything you've said. I suppose what I was trying to say got lost somewhere. Let me try again.

There are some birthmothers who are worthy of being coined" mother" and some who are not. Just as some mothers who parented are worthy of the title, while others are simply not. I don't think that continuing a pregnancy and giving birth makes you a mother. I just won't accept it. There are some birthmothers, like the ones on these forums, who mothered their children from the moment of conception, and who are mothers in their own right. Though I've encountered many amazing women who happen to be birthmothers on these boards, they are nothing like my birthmother. I do not see a mother in my birthmother, and I wish did.

Perhaps if my birthmother was like any of you, I'd feel differently. In fact, I'm almost sure I would.

Maybe I get defensive because , as someone else on this topic stated, I've been asked for as long as I could remember if I knew my "real" mother, how I feel about my "real" mother's choice to relinquish. I've been brought up, since I was very small, to think that a REAL mother was the one who mothered, not the one who "merely" gave birth. I was born back in the 80's, and I suppose that wasn't so long ago, but in my family and in my life, that was just how it was. My adoptive mother was my "only" mother, my birthmother merely someone who gave birth to me,and if I said any different, I was gently corrected. Open adoptions will ,in theory, eliminate this problem, as both mothers are a constant in the child's life. I don't condone co-parenting at all- and I don't think anyone wants that. The point of an open adoption is not to give the birthmother rights to the child,or, as I've heard very often, "allow the birthmother to have all the fun with a child without the responsibility." Open adoptions alleviate these issues of "who is mother?" I think we're all better of without these labels.


I didn't mean to diminish or trivialize any of your feelings, truly. Especially to Janey Two and Paige, who have both been so kind to me and supportive of me in my own issues with adoption, and whom I respect. I apologize, guys. I wasn't as clear as I'd hoped to be. I would never hurt feelings on purpose.

[RavenSong]

Thank you everyone for all the great responses in this thread. There is one thing I want to be sure that everybody understands, however. I did not create this thread as a "pissing contest" over who is the "real" mother. I created this thread out of frustration of being told that I didn't know the definition of a birthmother. Lately I've been feeling marginalized...

I am so upset about having to continually explain to people that birthmothers love their children. I've been told that I have no understanding of the unique position of adoptees in the triad -- but it seems that everybody except the birthmothers themselves gets to decide just who we really are. I read daily remarks about birthmoms "giving their children away", rejecting their babies, abandoning their babies, not loving their babies. And it makes me feel ill. As birthmothers, we're being defined by other people, people who have never even met us.

The other thing that's been bothering me lately is the lack of knowledge or understanding by many people about what our society was like during the "closed era" of adoptions. Those of us who surrendered our children to adoption 30 to 50 years ago are being judged by today's standards and environment. Yes, you can read history books about what societal mindsets were like back in those years...but you'll never really be able to completely understand what it was like to actually live in this country when children who were born out of wedlock were referred to as illegitimate on a good day or as bastards on a bad day. It's like this: I can read all the books in the library about the Great Depression of the 1930's, but I will never truly be able to fathom what my grandparents went thru, simply because I wasn't born until the 1950's.

For any adoptee over the age of 30 who is reading this, I want you to know that your birthmother didn't have very many choices. Many of the government assistance programs and resources, like food stamps or day-care subsidies, simply did not exist. Licensed day-care centers did not exist. If you went on welfare back in those years, it was almost impossible to get off it. Everybody knew that welfare was a trap, and most women avoided it like the plague. If you were on AFDC, just how were you supposed to feed your infant in the years before food stamps? Welfare moms received food commodities back then, mostly processed cheese, potatoes, dry beans and peas, powdered milk, large jars of peanut butter. Can you feed an infant this stuff? I just couldn't figure it out. Working single mothers had to rely on babysitters to watch their kids. How are you supposed to pay a babysitter when you're working for minimum wage, which was $1.65 an hour in 1972.

It hurts me when I read automatic assumptions about why birthmothers place their babies for adoption. The assumptions are often stated as the gospel truth -- the thing that's so wrong about this, at least to me, is that oftentimes the reasons aren't given by the birthmothers, themselves.

I've read a lot of people's posts saying that the birth/first moms on these forums are an "exception to the rule" when it comes to caring and loving our children. No, we're not an anomaly; we are not exceptions to the rule. I've met many, many birthmothers during the past 37 years. Every single one of these women loved their children and wanted what was best for them. Please don't blame us for believing our parents and other authority figures when they told us that if we really loved you guys, if we really wanted what was best for you that we'd relinquish our rights. We surrendered to the system, to our parents, to our teachers, to the society we live in. We did not abandon you, we did not reject you, we did not simply give you away...we surrendered. If anything, we abandoned ourselves.

What does it mean to be a birthmother in our society? I'll let you know when I figure it out. I've been one for over 37 years now, and I still don't know where I fit in the picture, or if I fit in anywhere at all.

Thank you for listening to me vent my frustrations. I admit that I'm scared...I'm worried sick. I read about the pain and self-doubt that many adopted people seem to feel, and it scares me about what my own son may be feeling. I've tried my very best during the past 19 years we've been reunited...but some days I wonder if it really matters. Does he know deep down in his soul and heart that his first mother loves him? Will anything I ever say or do take away his pain? Or does he silently think that I abandoned and rejected him? Am I doomed to live the rest of my life being "one of those women"? I've been fighting stereotypes and myths my entire adulthood...and I've just come to realize that nothing has really ever changed.

[Amandak249]

Raven-

Your post made me want to cry. I regret ever having posted, as I seem to have misunderstood the point of the thread.

Never let ANYONE tell you that you are ANYTHING other than what you feel you are. I can speak from my own experience, but only that. I know how I feel about my birthmother and adoptive mother, and that's all I can draw from.

I've read a lot of people's posts saying that the birth/first moms on these forums are an "exception to the rule" when it comes to caring and loving our children. No, we're not an anomaly; we are not exceptions to the rule. I've met many, many birthmothers during the past 37 years. Every single one of these women loved their children and wanted what was best for them.

I'm surprised to read this. And then again I'm not. I've never doubted my birthmother's love for me, and any adoptee who has most likely was never told about their birthmother's love as a child. I am in awe, though, when I read the posts on these forums. Though I don't doubt that every (or at least, nearly every) birthmother loves their child. I'm tempted to say that it is, in fact, 100%. I will say, though, that it is sometimes hard for us as adoptees to fathom that. We've been victims of the same stigma you have (albeit in a completely different way) Just as many birthmothers have been told that they "gave heir baby away," that they never could have loved their children, we as adoptees were sometimes told the same type of thing. At least " your birthmother loved you but love isn't enough."

We are exposed to the stigma and stereotypes just as you are, and it's difficult for many on all sides of the triad to understand the other's point of view.

It is hard for me, I suppose, to see my birthmother as my mother. Because if that's true, then I have lost a great deal more than I was ever told.

Very interesting topic, Raven. And a sad one too. All membes of the adoption world are so heavily influenced by a society where adoption is very misunderstood. How sad.

[paigeturner]

Amanda,

Never feel sorry for posting your thoughts. We’re all in this together and I learn from everyone! You hit the nail on the head: None of us has walked in the other’s shoes…with the exception of Belle - but she’s special - said in love Belliegirl! Please continue to post and also please understand that we are a sarcastic bunch. Don’t let us scare you away…we need your voice.

[dpen6]

Raven,

Am I detecting some resentemnt towards adoptees of the closed era?

Truly when I respond I resond from the heart...it is never to hurt or marginilize anyone. Its where Iam coming from. Amanda spoke of her feelings and was made to feel she said something wrong. I speak of adoptees feelings and yes those feelings WILL effect SOMEONE as are mere exsistence is either hurtful or dredges up bad memeroies. AND even with all of that we as adoptees, espceially from the closed era are usually quite good at attempting to understanding...its just when the reality of our experiances are voiced someone feels marginilized or dismissed. I know that I don't intentionally want to hurt anyoine, that is what has kept my mouth shut for to many years...the fact that my experiance and my judgemnts of my experiances could be hurtful to the 2 most important people responsible for my life is enough to gag anyone.

Do you not agree that an adoptees experiance is unique, Is it wrong to say that our experiance as adoptees IS unique in that we suffered a loss before we could even understand or verbaize what that loss was?...that is a not a judgment but a(...IMO..) a fact, is that not unique to the triad. Is it not a fact that as chidlren and trying to figure out who we are, how we fit and how it all matters is very differnt from the experiance of abmother.

Do you all really beieve that Iam tring to make it worse in some way..because I am not....I am trying to gel it all together ...or assure that if an adoptee comes on and voices their pain or experiance that it can be done safely without being called not compassionate, or being "put in their place" because they are not showing one mother or another enough understanding or respect?

I truly have made a huge attempt at trying to understand the mothers feelings and situaions.

But I definetly see a trend among 2 sides of the triads(the mothers) that when an adoptee attempts to gain some equel power in the situition there is someone crying foul....I see it as an adoptee not be able to discuss their situaion and not have SOMEONE take it personal. then we have to defend ourselves from others who feel we "just don't get it"...from their presecptive and because of that we are seen as not compassionate, being cruel, or dismissive.

Your right in the fact that general socity does not beleive that moms love their babies and thats wrong...but here on these forums I don't see it as much. I think that when adoptees that have not really been in tune with their adoptions you might hear some of that...but thats the pablum we have been fed.....then there are some bmoms that based on their blehavior towards their children that DON'T love their kids or are more concerned with themsevles and how they are percieved....thats another reality.

As far as your son and how he feels about you.....I think after 19 years and the struggles you have had and the total unconditional love you have shown must have proven that you love him. I am willing to bet that any feelings of abandonment that he may have had have(if any..not all adoptees claim to have them) have been helped with your actions. The reality is MOST of us are not born into the greatest of situaions...thats another one of lifes great realities...but I truly beleive that most people DO understand when actions are taken with the best of intentions...and years later when peole can continue to act with the best of intentions....kwim.....you did. Many do not.

I have alwys felt that the perfect reunion consits of 2 mothers that can put aside their own pain and insecurties to make the child they both love feel whole and put together. I think you did that right?

I think very often we personalize each and every post(myself included) instead of looking at it in a more clinical manner

Each of us are coming from our own experiances. I can't tell you how you feel about your child or adoptive experiance, neither can anyone tell an adoptee that they just don't understand what it like THIER bmom.

Many bmom from the close era HAVE rejected and dismissed their own child from any knowledge of name, heritage and medical....many people in general socirty also think its perfectly fine to do that as evidenced by the problems with opening records.....the main argument being "bmoms privacy".....not interfering with their life, so mabe thats why some adoptees of the closed era;s have the attiudes they have because it sure looks like to me that at this point in time it DOES remain about the importance of bmom emotional state as opposed to the practical kowledge for the person that wasborn. Another big argument regarding the closed era is protecting the aparents from emotional upse and having them feel less then...again dismissal of the person born.

I honestly never was angry at my bmom for doing what she had to do and I have said that from dsay one.....I DID understand her position....I also lived in those times and I saw and knew what the attitudes were

[RavenSong]

Dpen6,

No, you are misconstruing my previous post. I don't resent any adoptee, much less one from the closed era. I did not write my previous post to "make" Amanda feel bad. Please don't try to guilt-trip me about making her feel bad. I have enough guilt in my life without taking on the responsibility of everybody's feelings here on the forums.

I have tried daily to understand the adoptees' unique perspective and feelings in the collective sense on these boards. But birthmothers also have the right to voice their own feelings and thoughts about their own experiences, especially in this area of the forums. We may not be unique, but we are human beings, too. We do count...we do matter.

I think what you've stated about adoptees not being able to state their feelings without being taken too personally by bmoms or amoms also goes the other way around. Because it seems that whenever I post anything about how I really feel as a woman, how I feel as a birthmother, I get some type of guilt trip put on me. I am always reminded by someone that adoptees have it worse. I know you guys have it worse...I know this, and I'm truly sorry for that. But there are some days that I dare to think of myself first, that I dare to admit that I have my own feelings, wants, and needs. And I think it's okay for me to share my feelings with other birthmoms on the birthmother-support boards.

For what it's worth, I have always put my son first...in every way. I knew when I signed the relinquishment papers that it was the best thing for him, but the worst thing in the world for me. If I had known then what I know now, I would have torn those papers up and walked out the door. It caused too much damage to my own soul...and I don't think it did him any favors either in the grand scheme of things.

[lovemy2boys]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

But there are some days that I dare to think of myself first, that I dare to admit that I have my own feelings, wants, and needs.

Yes. There are moments when we MUST think about ourselves and put ourselves first in order to unwind all of these feelings/emotions/puzzles within.

There is so much that has to be said on this very heavy, very important thread.

Just wanted to send hugs

[RavenSong]

Lovemy2boys - Can you feel that? That's me reaching thru my computer screen and giving you a great big hug. I usually put other people's feelings ahead of mine, but I'm burning out. I need to take care of myself today. Thank you for understanding.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by belleinblue1978

I am a mother, no matter what anyone tells me. I nurtured Kiddo in my womb for nine months, nine of the most painful months of my life I might add, had a c-section (not easy to recover from, my friends that delivered vaginally recovered much more quickly), saw him through six weeks of hospitalization, making all of his medical decisions while the doctors treated me like a drug abusing prostitute, refusing to answer my questions and at one point even implying that I have a low IQ. I love that little boy more than life. He is the only child I will ever have, I refuse to be anything less than his mother.

Belle, I've had the honor of reading your words as you've walked on your journey for the past several years...and I know how much you love Kiddo. I don't know if I've ever told you this or not, but I think what those doctors and nurses said to you and how they treated you while Kiddo was in NICU is despicable. I know they wounded your heart and soul. I'm sorry there are such ignorant people in this world.

You may never be Kiddo's mom, but you truly are his first mother. He has two mothers, plain and simple: the first one gave him his life and her love; the second one gave him her love and the ability to live that life to the very fullest.

Originally Posted by belleinblue1978

OA is a step in the right direction, I agree, but make no mistake, it is not a welcoming into the adoptive family for every first parent. I have been told that I am NOT Kiddo's family in no uncertain terms. Forget that he is the only biological family that I truly know, forget that I brought him to this earth and that I made his parents his parents. OA can be a very hard, very painful road, just as closed adoption.

When OA first started happening in the early '80s, I was envious. It wasn't until I came to these forums that I began to really understand how incredibly difficult it can be. I really don't know if I would have had the inner strength and courage to do what you are doing, Belle.

Even though I never participated in OA, I can identify with a lot of your posts, especially when it comes to tiptoeing around Kiddo's parents in order to remain in his life. I walked on very similar eggshells when my son was a teenager and young adult. I remember how it felt to carefully weigh each and every word coming out of my mouth when I was talking to his mom and dad. It felt almost as if they had the power of life and death over me. I knew I could never afford one mistake, one slip-up...it was beyond hard. DS is now 37 years old, and I still wake up in a cold sweat after dreaming about those years.

Originally Posted by belleinblue1978

I will always speak out as an adopted adult and a first parent. I refuse to be silenced. I am a sum total of my experiences and obviously adoption plays a large role in that. I continue to speak proudly of my son and my experiences and always will.

I refuse to be silenced. Those are incredibly important words, Belle. Your voice and the voices of all other adopted adults and first parents must be heard if things are to change in our society. Many of us have tried since the late 1970's to make our voices heard. Many of us, myself included, have been activists with Concerned United Birthparents (CUB) for many years. There is still so much work left to be done, and it's going to be up to your generation to carry it out. Whether it's speaking up and having a visible presence on forums such as this one, or speaking before legislative bodies about adoption reforms, or just speaking about our own experiences and feelings to friends and neighbors -- our voices must never be silenced.

I love ya, kiddo. You're an amazing woman.

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by Amandak249

It is hard for me, I suppose, to see my birthmother as my mother. Because if that's true, then I have lost a great deal more than I was ever told.

Well I think that says it all. Why would anyone want to face a loss like that? But the bottom line is that you did lose a mother even if you do not conscously remember the experience.

[kakuehl]

Raven, I'm sitting here reading your words and thinking about a conversation I had with Janey last night. Even as I sit here in my "air cast" it's hard for me to think about putting myself first. I really struggle with self-care because it has been (at least in my mind) my responsibility to care for others since my mother brought my sister home from the hospital and taught me "this is our baby." I was 13 months old at the time. Take care of yourself, my friend.

[dpen6]

O(h Raven,

I am sorry if you think(or anyone else thinks) that Iam trying to guilt trip anyone. I am really sorry ifmy words were percieved to be hurtful..they are not. I DON"T want to silence anyone. The fact that you think I am trying to say that adoptees had itworse is telliong me you are not gettingwhat Iam trying to say. Thats what I am trying to get accross..we had it DIFFERNT...our experiances are DIFFERENT and what is needed is for both sets of parents to sit back and just listen and attmept to understand and support. But often we get hit with "but you don't understand about me" There are threads "realting to the adoptee", there are books with the theme "of "dealing with adoptees....therre are NO books on realating to aparents or realting to bmoms from an adoptee side...we are a "group" that needs to be dealt with...and yes, there are some books for aprents to "realte to" bmoms

What an adoptee feels is different but I really feel we are the ones that are "silenced" because our words are judged..time and time agian. I was stating my reality and you accused me of guilting you...it really had nothing to do with you or any other bmom here...it was mine alone and it was found to be hurtful...thats what I am talking about.

Did you not get the fact that Ihave alwys respected the bmoms that do make an attempt? I have huge respect for your relationship with your son and the fact that you do attempt to understand.

I truly just try to express my views and it is taken as an attack ....I am very sorry for hurting anyone.

I have had many adoptees tell me that I am spot on and they get what I am saying but then they are silenced because their is SOMEONE waiting to slap those little buggers down. Because you see, they don't get adoption right...they don't understand the hurt that everyone else feels...after all its not about them is it?

[dpen6]

Another question..is it because some of us feel that are aparents are "real" that was hurtful? Do you think because I felt that way that I was purposly trying to hurt bmom's? Because I explained WHY I felt that way....and it was about my experiance...not as a means to hurt!

I am really confuse3d and hurt here...I am really not getting why I am getting the bad vibes.