[JustPeachy]

I'm not sure where I stand on the whole reincarnation/karma/predetermined life issue. Sometimes I think it can be possible, and other times I just don't know. Given that, I always had a strong feeling that my son was meant to be here. As far as was he meant to be adopted, I really don't know. I felt in my situation it was the best choice, but then again, my choices were limited, too. I just had to decide based on what my circumstances were, and unfortunately, they were not the best. So I think my decision was more of a "free will" type of situation than a predetermined one.

As far as life lessons, I can't say placing my child for adoption made me noticeably more tolerant or empathic or anything. I've always had LOW tolerance for B.S. (I don't suffer fools gladly!) and yet a pretty strong sense of empathy to begin with. One thing that I did notice, was that going through the adoption process and pain of relinquishment THRUST me into adulthood. I was on the verge of adulthood age-wise, but emotionally was no where near adulthood. This was the first very real adult decision I had to make in my life. And I remember maturing emotionally very, very quickly (maybe too quickly?) after having my son and then having to process all the feelings of grief and loss. I am one who believes it takes a lot of strength and courage to make an adoption plan for your child, but in my situation, I was not forced or coerced, and I was well-informed of my options. I never felt ashamed of my choice, though society and other people do try to make you feel that way, which is the real shame. I did learn to hold my head high while at work and other people were gossiping about me, and saying things such as I was giving my baby up becuase I did not know who the father was. I also believe that while relinquishing a child is very difficult, and probably the most difficult thing I've ever been faced with, it is (for me) not the worst thing that could have ever happened in terms of "life issues." I guess what I'm trying to say is, if our lives are predetermined, I would probably look at mine, even with my decision to relinquish, and choose it again, if I was faced with exchanging it with someone else who was experiencing other types of tragedies which I feel are way worse.

[Janeytwo]

Hey Raven,

In no way did I blame myself for the abuse that occurred, but I did consider that perhaps I went thru it for some type of human advancement, if you follow my drift.

Hmmm...thinking here. I haven't ever thought about anything that happened to me in those terms. It's simply part of my history. Excepting that the alcoholism another suffered was the path by which I found my way back. I would not say though that I wished that disease upon them. Quite the opposite.

But as to viewing my experieinces as having a higher purpose? I dunno. (No judgement meant to Raven).

I think that my legacy is so much different than many in here that I don't have the tools to see it that way. The War shaped how my mother especially would view the world and so it shaped me I suppose. It's shadow is long.

You know on the higher purpose question.....I asked my mom this very same thing once (almost verbatim) when I was a young teen because I was curious as to whether she believed there was a devine purpose behind War which is the ultimate form of child abuse; bar none.

She just laughed and said that the War didn't happen to shape anyone's destiny. And she highly doubted that if there was a God, that He had anything to do with it. She believed (and still does as far as I know) that it happened because all people are capable of being murdering, power hungry scum; just that some of us have the humility to realize that about ourselves - and some of us don't. And the ones that don't realize it sometimes attain their goals at the expense of everyone else.

"There will always be huns at the gate, Janey". That's what she said. I'll never forget it.

I can think of no group of people who understand what we're capable of like children who've survived such tyranny. I shall have to ask Lovemy2Boys to join us on this thread. She's got a lot to contribute on this subject.

Anyway, mom said that the War was a defining factor in her life, but that she could not allow it to be THE defining factor. Otherwise, Hitler would've won.

It took me some years to understand what she meant. Relinquishment, abuse, the street, all of it.....it is what happened to me. I don't know that there's a higher purpose in any of that. It simply was. The only question left is where do I go from here?

Because while some can argue (and rightly) that they had no choice, NOW I do have a choice.

Will my experiences define who I am or will they enhance who I am?

That's up to me I guess.

[paigeturner]

This is a very interesting thread. And, I’m struggling with it a bit. I have no business posting on here today as my schedule is a nightmare this week with the hamsters back in town for the start of legislative session…but…

On the topic of predestination and Gods…this is where I struggle. I always cringe a little when I read adoptive parents state that they “knew” their child was meant for them; that God meant for their child to be theirs. If that’s true, then it means that God meant for another set of parents to experience great loss; and that God meant for the child’s life to take a different and not always better path. If there is a God or a higher power, whatever, then I struggle with the fact that he/she could want such a thing. But, as those of you reading this can tell, I struggle with the idea of a God…I just look at the atrocities occurring across the world and think, “no way.” And then, I see an absolute act of love or experience the joy of nature’s beauty and I think, “oh yeah, he/she does exist.” But, I digress:

Originally Posted by Janeytwo

Will my experiences define who I am or will they enhance who I am?

That's up to me I guess.

For me, the above statement is an absolute truism. The relinquishment of my son taught me that all choices, even the seemingly small ones, change our life path. That thought paralyzed me for a number of years. I mean, I went on, got married, had my beautiful daughters, built a house, enjoyed my family, but it was all sort of going with the flow. I wasn’t really taking control of MY life. My personal life. Apart from my husband, daughters and extended family. I just didn’t feel like I deserved A LIFE for ME. Then, one day I woke up. I woke up and started MY life. I started making decisions for me. I started looking at how taking care of me would teach my girls some valuable life lessons. I grew self esteem. I became strong.

Perhaps the strength was always there...I don't know, but Janey is right it is up to us to choose our path. I choose to let my experiences, good and bad, enhance who I am as a human being; not define me.

What do all of you choose?

[SoniaRose]

You birthmoms are all too hard on yourselves -- as long as you all get up each morning and go about your day, then you are learning and growing. Struggle is necessary for our spiritual development.

As an adoptee, I have always been searching -- for the meaning of life, as well as my identity. I had thought that belief in reincarnation was becoming more mainstream -- even Oprah had Dr. Brian Weiss on her show recently talking about his studies on past life regression. Dr. Weiss has also discovered that souls can share many lifetimes together (which is a subject that I still grapple with). But I have to think that I have known my bmom in another life, and I am convinced I will see her on the "other side" (souls can spend about 100 years between lives). I am sure she will be waiting for me. Then hopefully this will all make sense.

[julie23]

i have never given reincarnation much thought..... it isn't taught in the churches i attend.... and truthfully, i just haven't thought about it..... until about 3 months ago....

i met a 19 year old young man at the local YMCA last august.... and from the very beginning, there was this really really strange connection..... somehow, he went from teaching my kids to dive.... to babysitting for me... to becoming a member of our family.... literally.

and i found myself saying to my oldest, "it's like i've known him before"

and for the first time, i started thinking about reincarnation.

this kid is really a part of our family... my hubby and i refer to him as "our borrowed son"..... he eats dinner with us..... he shops with us.... he plays games with us.... he watches movies with us.... he just joined my hubby's martial arts class...and he goes on vacations with us....

when my oldest is trying to figure out whether or not she can do something.... she will say "well, Sam does it... so i can too".... and i just look at her... "Sam is not really your big brother, you know?"

this kid even looks like us... and strangers assume he is our son... he was goofing off at the bowling alley, and the lady yelled at him... then came over to me and apologized for yelling at him and explained why she did... like i was the mother??

sooo... this thread motivated me to look a few things up about reincarnation... which by no means makes me an expert an on it.... nor does it mean i believe in it.... but it does pose some really interesting thoughts....

Dr. Weiss has also discovered that souls can share many lifetimes together (which is a subject that I still grapple with).

this seems to be a theme in reincarnation.... they call them "soulmates"... not in a romantic sense.... but just souls that you keep getting incarnated with.... and they say it is often Parent/child....

just how Sam fits into our family has made me seriously wonder about reincarnation.... was this kid my son before? who knows....

I always cringe a little when I read adoptive parents state that they “knew” their child was meant for them; that God meant for their child to be theirs. If that’s true, then it means that God meant for another set of parents to experience great loss; and that God meant for the child’s life to take a different and not always better path.

we are adopting our youngest daughter.... and yes, i feel like i have the same "soulmate" connection with her... that i have with my other daughters.... that same, deep connection.... like she found us... and we found her... and now all is right in the world...

and just to throw it out there.... is it possible that when adoptee's and birthmothers are reunited and feel absolutely no connection.... that it just means there weren't any past lives together? and the adoptee grew up in the home with souls she had known before?

i don't know about any of this.... just thought i'd throw it out there for the sake of the discussion....

[kakuehl]

Julie, they are interesting thoughts.

I, personally, do not believe in reincarnation. I do believe in a God who loves us unconditionally and wants us to return that love. I agree with those who said we had free will. Unfortunately, we mostly use that free will to run the other direction. With my birthson, I learned never to say never! I definitely intended to "save myself for marriage." When I got involved with D's bdad, I used to tell myself that's the last time and then I'd meet with him again. (Did you know that the Greek word translated as sin literally means to fall short of the mark? I definitely fell short of the mark I aimed at.) I blame no one else for my actions; God was not punishing me, the "devil" didn't "make me do it." The lessons I learned: God always forgives; it's possible to forgive myself. I chose adoption for D, not because no one would help me, but because I believed it was the best choice. I have always believed that children deserve to be wanted. I have always loved D, but I knew I would resent him for things that weren't his fault. (My mother used to say to me, "I loved you, but I didn't want you." I never wanted to do that to D.) I made what I believed to be the best choice at the time; there is forgiveness for that choice as well. Are there things I would change about my life and choices? Of course. And yet, I wouldn't change any of my children or wish them out of existence.

I have been blessed to become a part of my birthson's life; to get to know his parents; to watch his children grow. Sometimes it is bittersweet, but still a blessing.

I have learned to judge others less, to try to share the unconditional love that I have received with others. Every week in my children's sermons, I will ask the children, WHY? The answer is always, because God loves us. My children, God loves each of you... no matter what and always!