[lovemy2boys]

Hi guys,

Hope you don't mind me popping over with a question...It's something I've been thinking about for a while, and today it came up again in another thread...Now, I ask this out of genuine interest - not to make waves...

I know many firstmoms feel that making an adoption plan because of finances is not a good reason...but is it a valid reason?

I know that finances change, and where you will be 5 or even 2 years from now is not necessarily where you are RIGHT now...I know that there is financial assistance available...I know that money should not be "the" reason to make an adoption plan; but is it not valid? I mean, even though there is government assistance, it seems to be extremely difficult to obtain as of late! My SIL works for our county and says that she can't even TELL me how many people she has to turn away...

What about the people that have no home, and can't get into a shelter because it's full? What about the people who are turned down for food stamps/health care/utilities because they don't qualify? Or that can't get child care or an education, let alone a job?

What happens in the time frame between pregnancy and when they are on more stable footing, financially? I HATE to think of these women placing for solely financial reasons...but what if they can't "see" any other options out there?

I know I've touched upon this a while ago, but when looking through my old threads I just can't find it...

And please know that I am NOT "challenging" anybody's feelings - I've just been thinking of these girls/women who HAVE no financial options, and can't see past the dark into the light...Especially in these hard economic times when EVERYONE seems to be struggling...

Thanks in advance, guys - I really am interested in your answers, and finally after all this time worked up the nerve to ask...

ETA - After re-reading this post, I realize that it "sounds" argumentative, but please know that was not my intention - it was just how my thoughts happened to go down on "paper"

[Mommy24]

Love, I have no answers. I DID place due to financial restraints. However, not to the extreme that you are speaking of. It wasn't that I did not have a warm home, not that I couldn't have had a job, I wasn't starving by any means, but at 19 with an unplanned pregnancy and an uncertain relationship with the biological father I feared that my little place, no job, lack of money to buy every little toy, cutesy baby things, the latest and greatest bouncy seat.....I could go on forever was not enough and that my son deserved all of those things.

When I called the agency to inquire about adoption I was told what a loving option adoption was, how deserving my unborn child was to have 2 parents who could provide him everything he would ever dream of. I was not told that if I really wanted to parent that all the toys, bouncy seats, name brand clothes wouldn't really matter to him as long as I loved him and could provide a roof over his head and food in his belly (Hello...breastfeeding...free...)

So I do agree that placing for financial reasons is a valid reason, but we need to be making sure that e-moms who are inquiring about adoption realize that all of those material things aren't the end all be all of parenting. I was so hung up on thinking that material things would make me a better parent when in the end I had ALL that it took to be his mommy.

[lovemy2boys]

Good point, mommy24, and thanks for responding.

What you said makes a great deal of sense.

I know my example seemed extreme, but believe it or not, it is a situation my friend found herself in, but as a mom who already has 3 children (her husband skipped town and didn't look back), not as one who is expecting.

But it makes me wonder, because here she was - lost her home, had no job because she was a SAHM for 10 years...no income coming in, but no assistance because FOC said she was supposed to be receiving child support, etc. etc.

And it made me think about women/girls who truly have NO resources, and how it's not easy to get assistance right now...and how if they aren't placing with an agency or someone who will help them...they MUST feel hopeless!

And you're right - there is a big difference between baby gadgets and basic necessities.

Thanks again for responding!

[Mommy24]

I know the extreme situations are out there, for some e-moms adoption is the ONLY option for them. I totally get that and definitely believe that they have a valid reason for making the decision to place. Infact, I don't think we can judge anyone's reasons for placing. Each story is unique, each reason was the "right" reason at the time.

I regret everyday that I placed because I thought if he didn't have the newest Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle that his life was surely to be the worst.

Live. And. Learn

[lovemy2boys]

Thanks for sharing, Michelle...

That's why I'm here most days - to learn...

[Janeytwo]

Hey Lovemy2boys! Much hugs to ya today! (Please forgive how long my reply is - Yikes!!)

I just caught this thread. Good topic and discussion by all! I took some time answering as I wanted to honor your question because I can see from your words that it is an important subject you. So I tried to reach back and think of how I made my decision.

Let's see.....There is a short and immediate list of concerns for anyone who is pregnant and living at street poverty level (and I'm guessing that's the demographic your question addresses - hope I'm reading that right). I am doing this from memory and some things may have changed but knowing how society still hasn't addressed the issues of the poor, I'm realtively certain this list hasn't altered that much. (Sorry...didn't mean to get off on a tangent - just old stuff that still burns in the mind.)

Anyway.....

The list is always - IMO - in this order: Housing, food, heat, clothing.

The clothing part is the easiest to solve. There are many charities who donote clothes; Salvation Army and St. Vincent de Paul coming to the top of my mind straight away. I am fairly certain (though Kathy would be better at corroberating this) that clothing is not an issue at this point for charitiable organizations. I.e., they still have enough to go around. For us northern folks, of course, the clothing issue extends itself to winter coats and boots but I believe those are just as easy to come by. And even if a person doesn't qualify for free clothing through churches and the like, these items are still quite cheap at thrift shops. So that part of the equation for a poor pregnant mom would be a relatively easy hurdle to overcome and being poor she would know that. In the larger issue of adoption, a pregnant mom would more than likely consider this but then cross it off as a top concern. (Again - from my experience only)


Housing: This is of course the most urgent problem and a difficult one. I'm not sure what the waiting list is for Section 8; if they put unwed pregnant women at the top of that list over, say, poor people with more than one child, or over senior citizens. Brenda Romanchik would probably know the answer to that. You might want to PM her and ask. I'm sure she'd have the information. The other type of housing.......uhmmm....I can't remember it's name but it's controlled-rent lower-income type of housing. That has a 5 year waiting list; it might be more now.

As for Section 8 itself; the first thing on a pregnant mom's mind would probably be (again - my experience only) how unsafe it is. That's not a judgement of the poor. I've been there - I understand the challenges. But it is a reality. Crime is more rampant in poor neighborhoods than in richer ones - there's no way around that. Section 8 is dismal and frightening and oftentimes overrun with drugs. Not a place a person would think of as optimal in raising a child.

Both those housing types would depend on a person's ability to qualify for state-funded aid for housing allowance. And if you didn't? (And kudos to you for pointing that out!)

Well then, there are apartments if you have the downpayment and the first month-and-half rent. Forgive me if I sound cynical (I hope not) but that kind of money is difficult for the poor to scrape together.

Then there are trailer parks - if you can qualify for the lot rent. And I hate to whip a dead horse but if anyone wants to know what trailer life is like for the poor - well then, watch 8 Mile. I'm not talking about manufactured housing communities here. I'm talking about reality. Real trailer parks filled with real people in desperate straights. Again - not the life I'd want for my child.

As for heat. Well that sort of falls in line. There are programs available but I know you've seen it on the news up here; poor women who've had their heat shut off and are reaching out to the community out of fear that their children will freeze to death.

Food: I've read lately that food banks are running out of stock 1/2 way through the month on any given month. There are many more hungry people in the U.S. today than there were when I was young. Also, food stamps (again, if you qualify) are not covering even 2 weeks worth of food for a family of I believe 3 is the quote I read. Governer Granholm and her husband and kids went on food stamps voluntarily for I believe it was ten days. They were alloted the standard $49.00/week for family of 4 food stamp payment. Pretty scary.

And yes, babies get well-child food allotments but their mothers still have to be able to eat themselves. And then there's the challenge of finding work that will sustain the needs of both the mom and her child. ANd if you have a job that meets very basic requirements? Chances are your state assistance will be cut or removed. Also - babies won't stay babies. They will grow and need more food - good nutritious food. Fear of starvation is a terrible reality for the poor and it drives our decisions. I can't stress that enough. Food or the possiblity of my children not having it? That is a major decision-maker on a pregnant mom's decision to place - I lived that - I can tell you it was way up there for me.

It's a nightmare. A rat's wheel. THere are people that make it out of such poverty. They are either very lucky in some way or I would bet my last dollar that they have outside help through family or some such.

It's so so hard to get people to understand that poverty is a difficult situation to drag oneself out of and with a child? That's even more so - way past double. Not wanting to condemn my children to extreme poverty was for me a valid decision. I can't say if it was "good" or "bad"...just necessary to their survival and to mine.

Hope I didn't sound preachy. I didn't mean it to, honest.

Love and respect all you guys greatly!


Oh and you didn't sound argumentative Lovemy2Boys! You sounded like your usual kind and compassionate self! Love ya much!

[BrandyHagz]

I placed for financial reasons as well. Nothing like what you posted - but enough so that I didn't feel I could provide for myself, my son and the daughter I was pregnant with. We were already getting all of the help that was available to us, but it wasn't much - due to other circumstances.

There are a class of people, called the 'working poor' who don't qualify for services, but can't afford to meet the basic needs of their families. It is these people who are most at risk.

If I had been poorer and unemployed, there is a good chance I would have made the decision to parent, beacuse I would have had the services available to me to help me do that. However, because I didn't have those services, I felt I had no other choice.

So, at least in my case, it's not always the super poor who are making adoption plans...

Within 2 years of her birth, I was moving into my new home, driving a new vehicle with an excess in the bank (not huge, but helpful).

[lovemy2boys]

Originally Posted by BrandyHagz

There are a class of people, called the 'working poor' who don't qualify for services, but can't afford to meet the basic needs of their families. It is these people who are most at risk.

If I had been poorer and unemployed, there is a good chance I would have made the decision to parent, beacuse I would have had the services available to me to help me do that. However, because I didn't have those services, I felt I had no other choice.

See Brandy, this is kind of what is sticking in my mind...The people out there who are getting turned away left and right, HAVE no support, and feel like they have no other alternative...

Like I said, my SIL and I have been talking about this a great deal lately (I was trying to find assistance for my friend) and she was saying that she can't believe how many people she's turning away because the funds simply aren't there...

And Michelle mentioned before that there's a difference between necessities and "extras", and I can totally see that...there's a difference between no heat and no exersaucer.

So in essence, as my mind is processing all of this, I'm just trying to consider a woman who is pregnant...and in her mind can't "see" that far into the future...Where does she go from there? Especially if she's working with a less than reputable person/agency that isn't so free with giving options...

Sometimes I will read things on the boards that will trigger something that is either happening IRL, or has happened with one of my kids firstparents...and then my brain starts to short circuit...

I appreciate your point of view...Thanks.

[lovemy2boys]

Hey Janey! Thanks for the response!

I know we were talking the other day how bad things are in Michigan right now...and how we ALL seem to be taking hits left and right...

And just looking at the condition of our state and the rest of the country really makes me think about how some women who are concerned about how to supply basic needs for their children may not be able to see past their toes, let alone into a brighter future...

So it makes me think that for those who have been looking for work, or looking for support and find themselves in a situation such as an unexpected pregnancy, times may seem very bleak.

Like you said - it's a rats wheel...Trying to find decent housing, trying to find a job, trying to find good childcare...a vicious cycle.

Thanks for responding! Have a great day!

[Janeytwo]

Brandy
I understand exactly what you're saying about "working poor". When my mother was widowed, there were still 5 kids to care for but because she had a home she could get no aid at all. Her husband didn't believe in insurance of any kind and she was left to feed my siblings and keep a roof over all their heads. I resented extremely that she had to do this but couldn't get food stamps. It is terrible to see hardworking folk fall through those cracks.

The working poor have their backs up against a wall through no fault of their own.

So, at least in my case, it's not always the super poor who are making adoption plans

I am hoping that I in no way implied that only the "super poor" are making adoption plans. I certainly don't think that. People make those plans for all types of reasons - all of which are valid in their particular circumstance.

[Janeytwo]

Hey Lovemy2Boys!

You're right that it is hard to see into a brighter future when the current "now" seems so difficult. And as I've read others stories in here, how they would've made different choices if they would've seen how things would be a few years down the road for them?

It is sad all the way round.

I hope your friend finds some peace and that you, in your efforts to help her, can find some answers too.

[BrandyHagz]

I do think there is a stereotype in adoption that paints birth parents are irresponsible, dirt poor, uneducated teenagers who are homeless or on the verge. While I believe that this is a reality for some birth parents and some situations - it is not, in my opinion, the status quo. It most certainly doesn't ring true for me.

I wasn't saying that anyone here had said those words - but more addressing an unspoken assumption that I see all to often in the community.

[SchmennaLeigh]

It simply depends. It's very case-by-case, unique to every situation.

[Janeytwo]

Hey Brandy,

Thanks for clarifying. I worried that I had offended you and others in here. It is a tough road for all of us, isn't it? All 3 sides; everyone.

Being women is a hard thing some days.

[RavenSong]

Personally, I believe that finances have almost always played a huge part in the decision to relinquish. I know that a lot of babies were placed for adoption during the Great Depression of the 1930's. In my own case, I think finances were my major concern, as well as DS growing up in a single parent household. That just wasn't considered normal or healthy in the early 1970's. The professionals back then seemed to always emphasize the importance of a stay-at-home mom and a working dad, a two-parent household. I know my caseworker went on ad nausem about what the PAPs could give my child, music lessons, art lessons, college education, summer camp, well you get the picture.

One thing I find sad is how the system of foster care has changed through the years. When I was growing up, foster care was mainly designed to temporarily provide a home for children whose parents (usually single moms) were financially struggling. Most often in those years, the decision to place a child into foster care was voluntarily made by the parents, just as a temporary stop-gap measure until they found another job and got back on their feet.

Nowadays, it seems that only abuse and/or neglect cases end up in the foster-care system. I'm always saddened when I see children living in homeless shelters or under bridges. I think the "old days" were a bit kinder in that regard, when a parent could request help from the country when they were struggling economically.