[zxczxcasdasd]

I agree with Raven that this girl is a wounded soul. Her story is SO similar to a good friend of ours (both parents doctors, divorced when he was young, always indulged, no consequences, learned to manipulate the adults in his life, sent away to an emotional growth boarding school, still indulged, etc., etc.) Makes me angry beyond belief at how these parents have destroyed these kids for their own selfish reasons. What happened to her is not her fault.

How she reacts to it, how she treats others, is her responsibility. So, I think you can move forward, but not in a way that allows her to rule over you emotionally in the way that she has become accustomed to with her parents (meaning, she never has to take responsibility for her own actions). You have to figure out how to love her without becoming another enabler in her life, another toy that she can pick up or throw down and rip apart at will.

It's part of my concern for her that she learn that love and domination/manipulation are not the same thing. You love her, and you will not be dominated by her. You love her, and she must treat others (including you and especially her half siblings) with respect. You love her and she is responsible for her own words and actions. You love her and there are consequences (i.e. no contact with your kids until she has proven that she can handle stress and conflict, be kind, behave maturely).

I'm reminded of the story of Helen Keller. She was absolutely wild with anger and grief at not being able to speak, or hear or see- none of them her fault. And no one challenged her wild behavior because they felt sorry for her. It was only when they found someone who had could have compassion without indulgence and who can could stand firm unbuffeted by her fits of anger, that she began to grow.

Ultimately, you can't heal her, anymore than she can heal you. She has to want to grow up and change how she relates to people. She has to want to learn how to love and be loved.

I hope that you can truly be in relationship, and that she is willing to learn what that means.

[JustPeachy]

That was a beautifully written post zxczx and there is much wisdom in it.

I also wanted to address this:

Why is it that when adoptees lash out, especially during the season of their lives that are normally times to lash out..(learning about themselves, hormones etc) its worse than when raised children lash out?

I don't have any raised children, but I imagine the shared history and long years of knowing and raising the children gives one foundation and a sense of responsibility that is not there with the placed child. With a placed child, the bmoms are not responsible for raising them as their children. In time, the relationship can be more solid, but if it's not there yet, there is no foundation, and just as you are getting to know your placed child, they are lashing out, I think it's going to be different. I guess you can also see it this way. If your amom who raised you developed some sort of illness that made her emotionally unstable, you'd likely be there for her in ways that would be different than, say, if you just met your bmom and she was coming at you in an abusive manner, lashing out, being angry (I'm reminded of Brock Baby's situation here).

I am in a recent reunion, and I try never to rock the boat. I don't say anything, but her other children, who are adults lash out always. She never denies them, but I am so afraid if I say one thing wrong, she will cut off ties.

I know this feeling, also from the other side. I try very hard to watch what I say, so as not to be misinterpreted (this is in semi-open adoption, in my updates), am afraid if I offend anyone, I won't hear from them again, etc. I'm sure my son's mom can say things to him that anger him, or they have their disagreements and such, but for me, I'd be terrified to express anger, simply because we don't have that shared history. I think it's common to all members of the triad and beyond. You just don't have that long-standing relationship and that makes everyone feel so vulnerable. I would hope in time, we could all reach a place where we could just "let our hair down" and be ourselves without worrying if the other will cut us off. In cases where people are abusive, however, lines do have to be drawn. Even in my own family, I've had to set strict boundaries with certain members. I don't know that I'd feel any differently if I did have raised, grown children who treated me in an abusive manner and made no attempt to change. I think I'd have to "detach with love" somehow, and let them know that I will be here when/if they are ready to have a healthy relationship, but will not allow abuse. And I do know many people who let their kids walk all over them and I can't understand how/why they tolerate it. Often, it becomes an enabling situation.

[gigglessa]

I don't want to rock the boat because I don't know how she would take it. she is always telling me what goes wrong in her family with her other kids. I just don't want to add more pressure on her. I am afraid she will think that the reunion was a mistake. Like she already has enough with her kept children, maybe I will be the straw that broke the camels back. I can't really explain.

[gigglessa]

Quantum,
I understand what you are saying. I feel the same way, but am wondering how much my mother really loves me. I feel like I am not important to her. She has made plans to visit me and has broken her plans each time. But, its not because of her, its her daughters that have problems that do not allow her to make the trip here.
I feel like I would like to have some importance in her life. When I read posts like these it just reenforces the idea that adoptees are not as important as raised kids.
I feel if one of her kids needed her she would come right away. I have tried to tell her how important her coming was to me. I already went to see her..I wish she could come and see me.
I even offered to buy her a bus ticket but she said she couldn't ride the bus. Her excuses are valid, but my feelings are still of abandonment.
I almost feel like we are just phone buddies or something.
I just don't know. Its very confusing. We have only been in reunion since march. That might explain alot.
Still trying to get to know each other.

[gigglessa]

just peachy,
You have good points. I guess if my mother abused me verbally, I would detach and run and hide. I would be scared and worried and sad. But, I would hope that as a mother she would have more understanding or life experience that would help her if I lashed out.
I guess I also have a double standard. Its so hard to work this out. I guess as an adoptee I want a mothers unconditional love. And as a mother I understand that kids behave differently toward parents than parents do toward children.
Kwim?
Even raised kids might distance themselves from parents who are abusive..but don't they distance themselves regardless?
Sorry, I do understand that I have a double standard. I don't know why.

[tlee70]

Your daughter is acting from her "baby" self...
You should read the book "Primal wound"..it would give you understanding of the adopted child.

[Janeytwo]

Raven thank you.

Janey

[Jackiejdajda]

austin0i

If I were you, I would set clear boundaries and back the reunion up. Make the reunion about YOU and HER alone. I can tell she can not handle the emotions involved with dealing with siblings. Start it off with just the two of you and leave it that way, for at least a year. ( if not longer )

I have always believed that it needs to be one on one in the beginning.. two people learning how to communicate under extraordinary circumstances..


Jackie

[Jackiejdajda]

zxczxcasdasd

I'm reminded of the story of Helen Keller. She was absolutely wild with anger and grief at not being able to speak, or hear or see- none of them her fault. And no one challenged her wild behavior because they felt sorry for her. It was only when they found someone who had could have compassion without indulgence and who can could stand firm unbuffeted by her fits of anger, that she began to grow.

Ultimately, you can't heal her, anymore than she can heal you. She has to want to grow up and change how she relates to people. She has to want to learn how to love and be loved.

This is a great thread..

Jackie

[Jackiejdajda]

gigglessa

I understand what you are saying. I feel the same way, but am wondering how much my mother really loves me.

She may not be able to sort her emotions at this time.. Your reunion is early.. and she may be coming to terms with years of putting her emotions away on terms of you..

Zxczxcasdasd wrote “Ultimately, you can't heal her, anymore than she can heal you. She has to want to grow up and change how she relates to people. She has to want to learn how to love and be loved.”

And I think the same applies to your birthmom ..she may have to change and she probably will change but some of this takes time.. (some of us stopped our emotional growth at the time of relinquishment)..
It took me more than a year to finally start talking about and dealing with my emotions on terms of my bson..
And if her life has many demands on it she may be running in circles and not able to sit down and remember..

I feel like I am not important to her.

She may not know about any of it.. she may be just acting and reacting..

She has made plans to visit me and has broken her plans each time. But, its not because of her, its her daughters that have problems that do not allow her to make the trip here.

Or she may be using the daughters as an excuse to must keep on keeping on..
She may need more time..

I feel like I would like to have some importance in her life. When I read posts like these it just reenforces the idea that adoptees are not as important as raised kids.

I can not interact with my bson.. I do not know how.. I do not know when I am saying the wrong thing or the right thing.. I do not know his cues..
His body language or his phone language.. and we do not communicate in my language.. that being typing up emails etc..
I do not want to do the wrong thing so I hold back because I do not want cut off.. I do not want anger I do not want misunderstandings..
Especially misunderstandings..

Its not that I love him less.. I love him.. I can not cope with the situation..

I feel if one of her kids needed her she would come right away. I have tried to tell her how important her coming was to me. I already went to see her..I wish she could come and see me.
I even offered to buy her a bus ticket but she said she couldn't ride the bus. Her excuses are valid, but my feelings are still of abandonment.
I almost feel like we are just phone buddies or something.
I just don't know. Its very confusing. We have only been in reunion since march. That might explain alot.
Still trying to get to know each other.

When some of us gave our babies up we were sworn to secrecy.. and nothing was said.. I do not know if this is what happened to your birthmom.. but for some of us its like coming out of a deep emotional well.. and the going is real difficult.. So many issues to confront..
I did not meet my bson for a year or so after we connected and even then it was hard..and it was me going into his territory..


Jackie

[gigglessa]

Jackie,
My mother does have lots of similarities and difference to most bmoms. First, she just gave us up to another family. By us, I mean first my brother and then me. We were raised by the same family but different mothers. He wants nothing to do with her.
She had lots of opportunties to be around me and actually when my amom died my abrother found her to get guardianship of me. I was not legally adopted. So I know she feels terrible for giving me up a total of three times. The third was when I was just dropped off at her house when I was about 8 yo. After a couple of months she gave me back to my afamily because I was actually not eating etc. Plus she was heavly into drugs so she just felt it was better.
So..she has lots and lots of guilt. I know that. But I just seperate my feelings with my adult logical thinking.
I know in my head, many things. I can explain the reasons...but my heart I feel different.
Its hard to explain.
I think you are right, we just need time..or maybe we will never connect.
I know she feels like she doesn't deserve the relationship. At least thats what she said concerning my brother.
They lived in the same town and she tells me about driving by his house hoping to see him but feeling that his amom would accuse her of trying to take him away.
Its different with me, since my amom died when I was 5. But I was moved out of the city and she lost all knowledge of me.
So, she does have guilt and remorse. I know she suffers from depression.
I don't want to add more pain to her life, so I keep all my feelings to myself.

[Rylee45]

gigglessa,
you know, I am absolutely possitive if birth moms could be able to have a relationship with the child they gave up and not have to worry all the time about saying or doing the wrong thing and having the placed child suddenly "punish" us for saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing it would be a lot different.

It's kind of like the placed child makes all the rules and if they don't get their way, or they don't like what they are told (such as when they are rude and are told the birth mom isn't going to put up with it) they can just drop out of sight with everyone on the adoptive side of the family saying, "Well, it's is your choice to have a relationship." or "You can do whatever you want. After all you were given up for adoption". Or any other number of "support" by the adoptive family for the way the placed child feels and how it's "fine" that they don't contact the birth family if they don't want to.

I guess sometimes I feel once the relationship has been started everyone should be able to depend on the other and not have to walk on eggshells in order to have a relationship.

I don't think the placed child should have to walk on eggshells either. Once a relationship has been started and both parties are willing to have one, there should be no dropping out of sight or temper tantrums etc. They should work together to become friends and get to know each other.

I know that when I met my daughter I was willing to do ANYTHING for her. My other children were very jealous of my daughter. I didn't neglect them but they had to share me with her and it was very difficult for them.

I went out of my way to be there for her for years until her adoptive mom decided she didn't want me around "her" daughter. I'm talking, I went across country on a bus (3 days of riding one way) 4 seperate times because she needed me. I would STILL be doing that kind of stuff if she didn't treat me so bad and disapear for months at a time where I can't get hold of her.

I love my daughter. She may have been taken from me at birth and may have pulled a LOT of crappy things but if she came back and started treating me better and acting like I mean something to her, I'd still be doing things she needed from me.

I just don't feel it's right to deal with all the abuse. My other kids and I have arguments every now and then and we may not talk for a few days but they always come back and we always talk things out. It's the way it should be.

I would treat my placed daughter in the same mannor I treat my raised children if she treated me with the same kind of respect they did. But it doesn't mean I don't love her just as much as I love my other children. I just know my other children respect me and won't run off for months without talking to me over some stupid thing that really didn't matter in the first place. They wouldn't even do that in situations where it was serious because we've had a few serious situations happen in their lifetime after they left home. They know I love them and I know they love me. We all cool down and then talk things out.

My given up daughter has her adoptive mom helping her to be rude, inconsiderate, and every other thing and she (my daughter) knows she doesn't have to be nice to me if she doesn't want to be.

Rylee

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by austin0i

She is young and hurting. She needs firm direction and unwavering support. Will it be a lot of work for you? Of course it will.

I would say this.

If you do not have the energy, or commitment, then do not accept another go around. Let her go, because in the end, if her problems are too much for you and you have to sever ties, that will devastate her.

If I were you, I would set clear boundaries and back the reunion up. Make the reunion about YOU and HER alone. I can tell she can not handle the emotions involved with dealing with siblings. Start it off with just the two of you and leave it that way, for at least a year. (if not longer)

Back it up and slow it down with boundaries, clear expectation and baby steps.

Whether she acts like it or not, she needs your unconditional love. Give her that, or nothing at all. Anything short of that will damage her more than she has clearly been damaged already.

Kim

I agree with every single word Kim wrote in her reply on this thread. Casandra, I really think that this reunion should just be between the two of you for the time being. As Kim recommends, a one-year period without interaction with her half-siblings and your husband would be ideal. I think Jenna needs to feel secure in her relationship with YOU before she'll be ready for a relationship with her siblings.

I agree with taking baby steps, having clear expectations, and placing boundaries ~ just make certain that the boundaries don't become barriers....

[Jackiejdajda]

Gigglessa

She had lots of opportunties to be around me and actually when my amom died my abrother found her to get guardianship of me. I was not legally adopted. So I know she feels terrible for giving me up a total of three times. The third was when I was just dropped off at her house when I was about 8 yo. After a couple of months she gave me back to my afamily because I was actually not eating etc. Plus she was heavly into drugs so she just felt it was better.

Oh my goodness.. This must have been so hard on you..

So..she has lots and lots of guilt. I know that. But I just seperate my feelings with my adult logical thinking.
I know in my head, many things. I can explain the reasons...but my heart I feel different.
Its hard to explain.

Maybe you learning about drug taking and the consequences of that.. may help.. you..
I hear you about things being in the head but not the heart.. but learning that she was a sick woman and could not cope may lead you (in your heart of hearts).. to forgiveness.. and in turn her forgiveness of herself..
But then that is your journey.. your decisions..

I think you are the leading edge of adoptees that were basically left with others because of addiction and hard drug taking..
I just wrote about my into drug taking in 1967.. and how I just took a pass on life for a while..
I gave my son into secrecy.. and I basically took off to have my life.. or get into my life..
I wonder what would have happened if I had of tried to keep him.. and in consequences was unable to do it proper..

I know I would have some of that there guilt..

I think you are right, we just need time..or maybe we will never connect.
I know she feels like she doesn't deserve the relationship. At least thats what she said concerning my brother.

When I read this I said out loud.. Yes…

They lived in the same town and she tells me about driving by his house hoping to see him but feeling that his amom would accuse her of trying to take him away.
Its different with me, since my amom died when I was 5. But I was moved out of the city and she lost all knowledge of me.
So, she does have guilt and remorse. I know she suffers from depression.
I don't want to add more pain to her life, so I keep all my feelings to myself.

I can’t remember or you may not have posted.. but is she into twelve step.. or therapy?
I know I said to my bson.. I am so sorry I let you go.. and he said (I can not remember his words right now) its okay..

It was part of my steps.. make amends.. tell him I won’t do it again.. and I don’t.. I can’t handle much on terms of him but I stay connected..

Jackie