[Rylee45]

I know I shouldn't be upset or angry with my daughter for her feelings about wanting to adopt a child but I am.

She's watched me for years being a basket case before and after meeting my daughter I gave up for adoption. She knows the circumstances around giving my daughter up. She knows how hard it was on me all those years before I met my daughter.

Well, today she was talking about how she wanted another baby. She has had two and they nearly killed her so she's afraid to try to have anymore herself and wants to adopt a child.

She was telling me how she would allow the birth mother to see the child anytime she wanted, get pictures etc for the child's entire life under her care.

I told her that I didn't think it mattered all that much to the birth mother how much contact or pictures etc that she got, it would still hurt to give the baby to some other woman and watch that woman be called "mom".

I told her if she wanted to adopt then adopt an older child that is waiting in a home not an infant.

She said, "Why should I be punished and not be able to have an infant to adopt? These mothers now a days want to give their babies up or they wouldn't do it."

I couldn't believe it. I know most women/girls who give their babies up are doing it because they can't finantially take care of the baby, or they are unstable in their lives and feel it would be better to give the baby up, or they are being cooerced into it and lied to about how much better that some other family would do having a mother and father in the child's life.

I know that most mothers who give their babies up regret it after awhile or they didn't really want to do it in the first place and the emotions are there and the saddness is there.

My daughter just got so on the defensive that I couldn't believe it. Especially after her watching what I went through all these years over the adoption.

I'm sorry to say this but I feel it is selfish of a person to be so ready to take another girl/woman's child from them so they can have a child.

It seems to me that someone adopting a child doesn't care how the first mother feels about losing her child and it's all about getting a child to raise regardless of how the first mother feels or the pain as long as the adoption goes through and they get a baby.

I told my daughter this and she got very defensive about it. She said she didn't agree and that if a girl is giving a baby away then why shouldn't she have the chance to adopt it.

I'm sorry to say but I don't think adoption should happen. I think the first mother's should be helped in keeping their baby so they don't have to go through a lifetime of hell because they were forsed by circumstance to give the child up.

I see so many adopted people out there who have no interest in meeting their first mother or other family. Or when they do meet them they aren't able to keep a relationship going for whatever reason.

That hurts the first mother and the emotions are all back all raw again and nothing we can do.

The adopted person doesn't have to love the first family but it's still something that hurts when they don't care about us the way we care about them.

I truely hate the idea of adoption. I don't care how much someone wants to build a family for whatever reason they feel they need to have another woman's child, I don't like adoption.

I don't know if I could accept a child as my grandchild if my daughter adopted one. I would constantly be thinking about the girl who gave it up and how much pain she was in emotionally.

I guess that's kind of bad and wrong but it's how I feel. I hope I don't have to deal with that in the future and my daughter gets out of feeling the need for another baby. She's already got 2 wonderful boys and they love her so much. I love those boys with all my heart too.

Rylee

[quantum]

I live in Sweden right now.
There is so much government help for parents in general and single parents. When I moved here, my oldest daughter was 3 months old. Even though I hadn't worked in Sweden, I got over a years worth of paid maternity leave! Ok, it wasn't much, but it was a little.
Parents who want to study receive help with costs and daycare.

I found a statistic somewhere that in country adoptions was something like 5 in a year. That's right. In the entire country 5 in a year.. And who knows what the circumstances were/are.

I don't know how abortion rates compare, I know I have read articles in the newspaper where young girls feel their options are 1)abortion or 2) parenting.

Their are adopted children. They are from other parts of the world.

Anyway, I guess I just think it's interesting how in a country where parents get a lot of financial help, the idea of adopting is viewed completely differently.

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by Rylee45

She said, "Why should I be punished and not be able to have an infant to adopt? These mothers now a days want to give their babies up or they wouldn't do it."

You should have her come read the boards/ Or talk to me. I would be happy to discuss (generally) what I have learned working with first moms over the years. While there are some who feel the decion to place was the right one, I know too many that were coerced.

Originally Posted by Rylee45

I don't know if I could accept a child as my grandchild if my daughter adopted one. I would constantly be thinking about the girl who gave it up and how much pain she was in emotionally.

I guess that's kind of bad and wrong but it's how I feel. I hope I don't have to deal with that in the future and my daughter gets out of feeling the need for another baby. She's already got 2 wonderful boys and they love her so much. I love those boys with all my heart too.

Rylee

I would say that if she does adopt you need to work through this. No child should suffer (and your inability to accept this child would make her/him suffer) because of the actions of adults. Befriend the first mom and be there for her. Be there for the child.

[josh1788smom]

"I'm sorry to say this but I feel it is selfish of a person to be so ready to take another girl/woman's child from them so they can have a child.

It seems to me that someone adopting a child doesn't care how the first mother feels about losing her child and it's all about getting a child to raise regardless of how the first mother feels or the pain as long as the adoption goes through and they get a baby. "

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[missymissus]

I'm a foster/adopt mom who usually just lurks on the foster boards, but your post caught my eye.

I don't know what its like to lose a child, so I can't say I know how you feel but I can see how your daughter wanting to adopt would upset you. I can also understand your daughter's desire to expand her family through adoption since apparently pregnancy is very hard on her.

Would you be more open to her adopting if she adopted through the state? Maybe you could suggest that to her. She could still adopt an infant, but she wouldn't be taking a child from a mother who could be a good mother if she had a support system.

My current fs who we will more than likely be able to adopt came to us at only 4 months old, so I have been able to experience the whole baby thing which is something I really wanted and sounds like your daughter really wants. I know his birthmom is suffering without him and missing him, but I also know that her "parenting" landed him in the hospital with serious injuries. He would not be safe with her. So, while she is missing him, its not the same as basic private domestic adoption where the mother probably wants to parent and could with the right support system.

This is getting longer than I really wanted it to, but I do hope either your daughter changes her mind or enters the adoption world in a way that allows you to feel good about the outcome and accept your new grandchild if she does actually adopt.

[crick]

I realize you have your feelings on adoption and they are not good, but that really has nothing to do with your daughter. If your parents coerced you and you know how that feels, why coerce your daughter into doing something she doesn't want to do? Or if not coerced...the pressure you put against her to do it "your way" and make the feelings known that you don't support her and likely will not be able to love your grandchild....is that not exactly what you feel other women faced or still do face if they face an unplanned pregnancy and their parents don't want them to raise the child?

I get that you feel adoption is not a good thing, but her adopting has nothing to do with you personally. I can see how it brings up all these feelings and emotions, and I hope you can work through those. Adoption is and can be a wonderful way to have a family for so many and while yes, it's not the rosy ole sunshine, I hope you can see that for many it is something positive and good, and perhaps even for your family.

Somehow you need to work through this and I hope venting about it helps. Hopefully you can support your daughter and future grandchild.

[Oceans]

I think some girls are coerced and made to believe they can't parent a child for whatever reason. I/we all could write paragraphs on this however, there are those who don't want to parent for personal reasons. I could write paragraphs on that as well but I will spare you unless you want some examples...

You are in a unique position to educate your daughter IF you can put your personal preferences aside. Perhaps explain to her the importance of knowing why an emom is placing and understand if the reasons are appropriate. Many times, the "reason" for placing can be a source of bonding for your daughter and the emom. Your daughter can become a source of positive influence for an emom if that is needed or wanted. KWIM?

She was telling me how she would allow the birth mother to see the child anytime she wanted, get pictures etc for the child's entire life under her care.

This tells me your story has already had a positive influence in that she desires an OA (not just settling for one).

I see so many adopted people out there who have no interest in meeting their first mother or other family. Or when they do meet them they aren't able to keep a relationship going for whatever reason.

I think this is more a product of the closed era and not a healthy OA. IMO, these are 2 entirely different types of adoption. So, gently, I suggest you may want to separate the 2 in your mind. I know OA's can be closed but with your positive influence, hopefully your daughter would never consider unless it was a danger situation.

I don't know if I could accept a child as my grandchild if my daughter adopted one. I would constantly be thinking about the girl who gave it up and how much pain she was in emotionally.

I think you would accept this child because quite frankly, how could you resist a baby and the baby is not to blame for anything. It's the circumstances you resist and coming from the closed era myself, I understand, but, as I said before, you can offer a unique perspective and positive coaching to your daughter. She may go down this road with or without you. If you have the chance to be a positive participant, I would suggest you educate yourself about OA (good and bad) and walk down this road with her.

[Rylee45]

First of all, I would never take out my emotions on an inocent child who had nothing to do with the adoption. That would be wrong. But I don't believe that I could ever feel it as my own grandchild. I would love it because it was a child but not MY grandchild. I can't even feel that my step-grandchildren are my grandchildren even though they call me grandma. I still love them and I still hug them and I have never treated them any different than I do my own blood grandchildren but I don't feel them the same as my own. I don't know why. I just don't.

But as for the way things are compared to the way they were in the closed adoption era as far as coercion goes, I see that it's even worse now.

Think about this, here's a girl "choosing the new parents" who have put out these "dear birthmother" letters with desperate "need" to be parents for these girls to read through.

So here they are, reading all these letters and seeing all these couples wanting to be parents who can't be for whatever reason. So out of the million they read they choose the one that seems the "most deserving" and then meets them.

All the time that this girl is spending getting to know these people, the people are on their "best behavior" trying to make sure they don't screw anything up so the girl won't change her mind about giving THEM her baby.

So, she's spends a lot of time with the "new family" having to listen to the "stories" that may not have been in the "dear birthmother" letter about how much they wanted a child, how they couldn't conceive, how many children they may have miscarried etc etc etc (to make SURE this young girl knows how much more they need the baby than she does. After all she can have more children later).

So the big day comes, she gives birth to the baby, but changes her mind about giving her baby away and wants to keep it but here are these "excited new parents" with their arms stretched out waiting to take the baby as "their own"

How can this girl in good conscience say, "Sorry, I changed my mind"? She can't so here she is being forsed to give her baby away because of these "poor unfortunate people who can't have children of their own" Or who have one other adopted child "who needs a brother or sister" so they have a playmate to grow up with.

Or here's the other senerio. The girl DOES decide to say something about keeping her baby and guess what happens? There's a lawsuit put into place where she is forsed to give her child up because a judge sees a "two parent family" as the "better choice" and there she is losing her child and the adoptive parents saying things like, "Well she wasn't a good parent anyway. She would have probably abused the baby and the judge could see through that."

The whole goal is to "get a baby" and the adoptive parents don't ever have to hold to agreements made with the girl about getting her baby. When/if they choose they can run out of the picture and never have to account for that or ever keep the promises to the first mother.

They get the baby and now hold all the cards and the first mother has to walk on egg shells the rest of HER life so as not to piss the adoptive parents off because they may see a "threat" (whether real or imagined) and that promised contact is no longer kept.

That in MY opinon is coercion and wrong and unfair to the first mother and is as bad and maybe even worse than the closed era adoptions where they only lost their child once.

I also think that the first FATHER isn't cared about in any way shape or form or his parents. Of course if the boy was "young" and couldn't marry the girl or she decided she didn't want him in the baby's life or hers after she got pregnant then his needs or wants OR the desires of the baby's paternal grandparents are nil and void as well.

I've been in a situation where my granddaughter was being kept from me because my son's wife decided to lie about what he was doing and had a father who had enough money to hire a liar of a lawyer who stopped him from seeing his daughter and along with that me too.

My son may not have ever been a good custodial parent but he is a good father. But his wife got custody and all rights because she lied so well and had the money through her father to pay for an attorney. My son didn't have the same privilage. It's all about money.

I think about that boy who lost custody of his daughter because the adoptive parents took him to court for custody after the mother of the baby had chosen then to be the parents of her baby. I feel so bad for that boy AND his parents. It makes me sick that there are people out there so willing to take a baby from the first parents no matter the cost to those first parents or the heartache.

All for what? "So they can have a baby to raise". Makes me very sad and very angry.

But I do know there are circumstances where the child truely is better off being in another home. Things such as drug addicted mothers who would harm the baby, and no other family maternal or paternal want it, rape victims who couldn't love the baby and would hurt them because of the hate and anger of how the baby came into being, and many other such circumstances where other family are not willing to take the baby and raise it. I'm not talking about those situations when I'm talking about adoption being wrong. I'm talking about the regular, "lets choose a family because I'm not good enough to raise a baby because everyone says I'm not" kind of adoptions.

Rylee

[MrsHoot]

(((Rylee))) I hear you, I understand - I would go APE if any of my daughters opted to participate in an adoption.

I wish I had some fantastic words of wisdom or some great books to recommend but my greatest fear is that this will divide you and your daughter...the more you try to "inform" her or help her understand where you're coming from - the more she will resist...so I don't know what the right thing to do is...I just wanted you to know that you were not alone.

C.

[mommytoEli]

It seems to me that someone adopting a child doesn't care how the first mother feels about losing her child and it's all about getting a child to raise regardless of how the first mother feels or the pain as long as the adoption goes through and they get a baby.

As an adoptive mother, I respectfully disagree. I think this is a statement that may very well apply to some AP's, but not all. I very much care about my children's firstmoms...even though due to circustances outside of my control, they are not a part of our lives. I am saddened they were unable to provide a home for their children, but the bottom line is these children needed a home and a family. If not mine, than who's? And of course we are excited about raising a baby. Who wouldn't be? Most women desire to be mothers. Getting to be one is a dream come true. There is nothing that says we can not both be pained for the loss that is sufferred by both the parents and the baby, while also being excited to have a new human being in our family.

I'm sorry to say but I don't think adoption should happen. I think the first mother's should be helped in keeping their baby so they don't have to go through a lifetime of hell because they were forsed by circumstance to give the child up.

I agree....but let us remember that regardless of the amount of help offerred, it is still true that some ladies do wish to make adoption plans for their children. And it is their right to do so. Just bc all the adoptive parents go away, would not mean there would be no little babies in need of a place to live.

I have adopted 4 children now. An infant, a toddler, and 2 older children. None of my children were in need of a home any more or any less than the others. Plus, raising adopted older children is very very difficult. It is not for everyone. And it is very different than parenting a child that has been in your home since he was a baby. So I would tread lightly on reccommending this as an option to others, especially those who still have younger children.

I don't know if I could accept a child as my grandchild if my daughter adopted one.

I bet you could....and I would encourage you to. One thing I've learned about adoption is that people can say alot of things, but once the baby is here, things are different. First my parents thought we were crazy for adopting.....then My dad told me I have too many kids. But....my parents LOVE my children....knowing each of them like they do now, i bet if they could go back in time, they would be a lot more supportive from the beginning.

I'm sorry you are hurting. There IS an element of loss in adoption that some people seemingly do not pay attention to. And it is real. However, babies need families too, and it is your daughter's right to build her family in the way she chooses. I see nothing wrong with sitting her down and telling her how you feel...not to be confused with telling her what to do, but you also have to know that at the end of the day, it is her decision to make.

My daughter just got so on the defensive that I couldn't believe it. Especially after her watching what I went through all these years over the adoption.

Maybe she wants to make a difference, and be a different kind of AP because of what she saw you go through. Maybe she wants to make sure everyone is involved. Is this a possiblity? Maybe she wants to be the kind of AP that is the very opposite of the type you are describing. Maybe she will surprise you.

[MamaS]

Crick, I could not have put it better myself.
I am not a birthmother, but I am an adoptive mother and proud of it. I did not adopt due to infertility, I adopted by choice. I had a good home and there were children already born who needed a good home. I have raised two girls and am now raising a boy.
When my oldest adopted daughter told me that she and her husband (who have a biological daughter) were planning on adopting a child, I was pleased. Her decision tells me that I must have done at least a satisfactory job as a mother, and she must not be miserable, depressed and constantly mourning the loss of her birthfamily. She thinks "growing up adopted" was good enough that she would wish it on her child!
And the child they adopt will be my grandchild and will be loved by them and by me just as much as the biological child!

[Oceans]

I respect your right to have your own opinion. I also respect the fact that this is a bit of a vent and no where have you asked for anyone's opinions or thoughts on the matter. But this is just bothering me.

As a first mom from the closed era, a member of a birthfamily in an OA, and someone who was adopted by a step parent at a young age - ALL of my experiences are so different and I don't believe I'm just lucky. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong - I hear your pain, I really, really do.

But painting either side of the triad with one brush stroke or making generalizations for one, two or three sizes fits all scenerios is really getting under my skin lately. I don't have much to say except that IMO you have many misconceptions of what OA is, or what takes place in the majority of cases. Anymore than I believe that society has an accurate view of who birthmothers are....Maybe I'm too sensitve lately... I wish you the best with your daughter

[startedover]

I know this is not a board for adoptive moms but I would love to put your fears to rest. I have two wonderful bio. kids and adopted the third because a birth mom chose me. This was not a young girl that would not know the consequences as she had other children. She made this choice instead of abortion and has been through all the emotions I would assume most go through. I just know that she tells me she is so grateful (although I am the one that should be grateful) that things worked out this way. My main point for you, is that you will LOVE that child. My mom was so worried that I had "bitten off more than I could chew" by taking on a biofamily. With that said she is also the reason I keep in contact with birthmom. She was always worried about how she was doing. ANd I am ashamed to admit this, but out of 7 grandchildren my mom will tell you that "L" is her favorite. Maybe that is because of the emotional issues that surrounded her , but maybe it is simply a grandma that loves her grandchild. No blood ties, no matter. Give yourself some credit.

[SuddenlySusan]

My daughter, currently a single mom of her 2 y/o natural child, also said that she wanted to adopt. It made me sick to hear. And, I know she does not understand the pain of a first mother... not mine, nor any other first mother. It made me truly physically ill to hear her talk about adoption.

We talked about adopting older children, but as was mentioned above, this is not for everyone, and she needs to ensure the safety and welfare of her son before taking on that commitment (i.e., waiting until my grandson is much older).

The thing is, she just loves children, and having another child naturally may be more than what her body can handle. She is a wonderful, loving mother, and has always wanted a home full of children... lots of them. I do understand. And, I accept any and all children as my grandchildren... even the children of her friends, just like I accepted my children's friends as my own children. No problem there.

But, when it comes to adopting a child through open adoption, I'll say this: I will never, ever support open adoption until the adoption industry itself takes on the task of supporting legislation which requires open adoption to be legally enforceable.

Once my daughter has actually worked for adoption reform, then maybe we can talk about her desire to adopt. Until then, I'm afraid she is either uneducated or unwilling to see the truth. And the truth is, first mothers are powerless. I will never support that.

Peace,
Susan