[FallenChild]

Julie - you don;t know where you'll end up because the whole experience was huge, and your obviously still sorting it through....as for me, I've come to realize that we moms have been left to do such sorting because adoption was bigger that we could have ever relized at the time we went through it - I relize now as an adult (I was 14 when I gave birth) the reason I struggled with so much sifting through terms is because adoption was never really explained to me - all of the consequences it would ultimately have on me and my child - and more importantly how we would be effected in relation to one another as mother and child was Never sorted out then, and is now much harder to do now - clearly Informed Consent was not part of my pretty little adoption picture!!! So sort if you must, through these semantical contortions, but in the end you are not just Mother to a Child, but a Mother whose relation to her own child is one filled with separation peppered with the selfish need driven manipulative influences of others - best, Fallen Child

[FallenChild]

Yeah Raven- I've been told not to take things personally too - just more dehumanization, I think - it's sort of like cutting one's wrists and asking them not to bleed. Sure, I won't take it personally when you remove both my kidneys either!!! Fallen

[julie23]

susieloo... wonderful idea... let's all go to NZ... wow!

kathy... the adoption class. what an experience.

somehow, i managed to sit through both of their stories without crying..... their pain was certainly obvious. but they had a different sort of "peace" about them... some here might call it denial... i sensed that is was sincere.... authentic.

one placed in 2006 and the other 2004... for many of the same reasons that we probably did... without coercion.... though.... it seems that both their families would have been supportive of them raising their babies...

they placed to "give their babies the life they deserve"... both of them said that... i would have said that 22 years ago...

they both expressed how much they love their babies...

they placed so their babies would have a two parent home, financial stability and opportunities that neither of them could offer... (my story! with the additional threat of homelessness if i kept her)

both of the adoptions are open... and it was very very clear to me that both these women feel very loved, respected and valued by their children's afamilies....

they both can pick up the phone and call whenever they want.. they both LOVE the adoptive mothers.... one commented how she talks to the adoptive mother for "hours"... they both are "talkers"...

i found it very interesting that they both talked about "being exactly like the adoptive mother"... (I suppose I think that is interesting because i discovered in reunion that my daughters amom and i are complete opposites.)

they both get pictures and video... one commented that she has "thousands" of pictures of her daughter...

i sat in wonder and awe... i was amazed... what amazing adoptive parents....how would this have felt? what if my daughters parents had kept their promise?

when i had my daughter TIDNR*, i was sober... i stayed sober for quite a while afterwards...

i waited.

i checked the mail everyday....

i was making some good choices with my life right then...

and nothing ever came.

and i kept waiting.

and i kept hoping.

and finally, when that single update letter came... around her first birthday...without a picture.. i was crushed.

she sent an update... it was cold... it was dismissive.... it completely lacked any warmth... (although, now, having met her, that is just her personality)

and i knew i would never hear from them again.

and i didn't.

that's when i started binge drinking again... that's when my life fell apart again...

so, as i sat and listened to these women tell their stories... i just wondered... how would that feel? would i have had peace..?? would i have been able to "move on" with my life to a certain extent? would i have been able to skip the years of attempting to the numb the pain with alcohol?

sadly, i do not know. because it didn't happen for me.

i have always wished they had kept their promises...

when the women were finished speaking, i left the room behind them and went to introduce myself...

that's when i cried.... and hugged them. they cried too.

it was a connection that is rare. it's like when i meet someone who has had their brother die.... or someone who has lost a baby at 24 weeks into the pregnancy....

when the adoptive mothers spoke, i noticed that one of them cried when the other told her story of infertility... and their first match with a first mother that decided to parent... this was a deep connection too....

there are some things that connect us on a very deep level. maybe it is relative to how wounded we were by the event....

julie

[julie23]

hello fallen child,

we must be posting at the same time...

So sort if you must, through these semantical contortions, but in the end you are not just Mother to a Child, but a Mother whose relation to her own child is one filled with separation peppered with the selfish need driven manipulative influences of others

well, that is certainly another way of saying it... and in many aspects, i agree with you.... i can see that can describe my adoption experience...

my experience can be described in many words... and i've decided that how i define my experience gives me my own perception of self and identity...

Your definition brings on the feelings of being a victim... i don't want to be a victim. i want to be a surviver...

other definitions give me different perceptions... and feelings... i don't want to be "just" a biological mother..or worse yet, an incubator..... I don't want to be the "kind of woman" who gives her baby away....

were others involved in my decision? sure. they were. but only because i became pregnant before i was ready to provide a proper home on my own... only because i put them in the position of having to choose whether or not to help...

i am 42 years old... and i am just tired of having society and other people define my personal experience...

semantical contortions, maybe... but for me, defining my experience as one who relinquished her parental rights and consented to the adoption is an empowering definition.. it is the truth. it was i said in court... this is the legal definition for what i did... and for me, it makes sense.... it is something i can feel better about..

i don't know.... as you have noted, i am certainly on a journey... and certainly sorting... and i don't know where that journey will end.

j

[susieloo]

I wonder how many of those two parent homes are still two parent homes.
My daughters parents separated when she was 21. It still screws her up 8 yrs on. I soooo wanted to be there for her, but had to hold back my urge to smother!!!! She knows I am here tho...I have made sure of that.
I can never help wonder about other aspects of those 'oh so perfect' two parent homes.
You know in NZ in the 1940s and 50s there were sooooo many babies up for adoption that the judges would not regard the social workers reports that deemed some homes not suitable. The babies were sent there anyway...just to get rid of the accumulation of illegitimate babies in the hospitals. Now that is sick!!!
Semantics yes...but those semantics that julie introduced to this thread I have tucked away in my brain,and they kinda gave me a sense of peace.
Susie

[SuddenlySusan]

Julie23,

I would agree that, without a doubt, we need to define ourselves...with our own words...and without the influence of others.

Words do matter. If not, then emotional abuse is not a legitimate claim. "Sticks and stones may break my bones...but words can kill my soul." If emotional abuse exists...then words do indeed matter.

I'm loving your journey, Julie... thanks for sharing.

Peace,
Susan

[FallenChild]

Hi Julie - yes, I can understand you feeling empowered by defining your passed experience with definitions that allow you to perceive yourself in control and not victimized. I can, but I don't believe my adoption experience defines me, or really had anything to do with me as I really didn't define the situation at all - unfortunately, I had no such control over the situation. Indeed, to the extent that I was controlled instead, and subject to things that others knew would ultimately harm me, then yes, I admit I was victimized - exploited - a simple means to someone else's end. Perhaps I am not a victim, as I could never be lead astray as I once was as a nieve child, but certaily I WAS victimized.

Best, FC

[Jackiejdajda]

i don't know.... as you have noted, i am certainly on a journey... and certainly sorting... and i don't know where that journey will end.

A twelve step sponsor once told me that I was exactly where I am supposed to be..
This when I thought I was being wrong.. in my thinking.. or I had done something I thought as wrong..

Anger points the way..

Jackie