[radical]

I am pretty much anti adoption--unless it's from the Humane Society! Yes. I do not make apology for this conviction. I beleive that the number of infant adoptions should be drastically reduced, and frankly believe that the number of births per capita should be drastically reduced. The world is over populated and we as a species have burdened the planet beyond sustainability.

However, I guess you could say that I have had my "Malcolm X" moment....it really struck me last night reading through these posts that people who adopt are not "devils". This is a huge step for me, because I typically hold in contempt those who have profited from an industry which systematically exploits women and babies.

I am a woman capable of great sneering cruelty, and capable of moments of powerful compassion. Most of us on this forum share this complexity...it's part of the human beast.

I guess I would like to propose that this thread be less for debate than to "brainstorm" about how we might humanize adoption, and how we might neutralize the polarity of our issues.

How can we as natural mother's help adoptive couple's see our predicament, while not "guilting" them for having a desire to parent? How can we raise the level of awareness and respect for the primal unity of mother and infant without mitigating the joy that an adoptive couple might feel in their adoption?

How can we persuede the world that adoption should only be a very, very last resort without destroying the hope which infertile couples hold in the possibility of creating a family through adoption?

There is absolutely no room for scapegoating mother's for becoming pregnant. There is no room for contempt of the poor. At the same time, we must also learn to tolerate the longing of infertile couples to parent children. This does not mean that anybody owes anybody else a baby, no way! But, speaking for myself, I must learn not to resent the joy a cuple may take in parenting an adopted child.

I am still anti adoption...I just want to deepen my compassion, since that's what this life journey is all about....

Please talk here about your feelings of ambivalence, your concerns, your surprises, and if possible your satisfaction with your adoption experience and adoptive couples.

I'd like to learn...

radical

[wanttobeparents]

Radical,

How can we as natural mother's help adoptive couple's see our predicament, while not "guilting" them for having a desire to parent? How can we raise the level of awareness and respect for the primal unity of mother and infant without mitigating the joy that an adoptive couple might feel in their adoption?

You can help us adoptive parents see your predicament by being honest about your feelings. I do not feel guilty for having a desire to parent. I have forgiven my body for betraying me with infertility. You want to parent your child. That is your right. I want to parent a child as well. I may not have the right, but someone has entrusted her child to me for that purpose. I am now entitled to be that child's parent.

My guilt is from the knowledge that the pleasure I have in parenting this child may be based upon someone else's grief. Perhaps she has moved on, perhaps she trusts that I am taking good care of her child. I do not know. I know that she must have felt pain during the pregnancy knowing that she was not ready to be a parent. I know that when her child was airlifted to a major medical facility immediately after birth that she was not given the chance to say hello or goodbye.

If we were able to have a completely open adoption with visits and phone calls, would that help her? I don't know. Perhaps it would add to her pain, perhaps it would relieve it. I will not know unless she tells me.

How can we as adoptive parents be aware of the first mother without mitigating our joy? I don't know if that is completely possible. I think of my child's mother everytime he does something wonderful. I wish I could tell her that his current favorite thing to do is dump... everything. I have tears in my eyes because she is missing the gallon of soap in the carpet and the little one perched in the middle slinging his hands and giggling madly. But I write it down. And I hope that one day when it is not painful for her, she will be ready to hear about him. And I have joy with the pain. Isn't that what parenting is about? Extreme joy with extreme pain?

As I am an adoptive parent, not a member of the birthfamily, if you are uncomfortable with my posting on this forum, please let me know and I will back off. I am quite aware that this is your sandbox, and promise to behave myself.

Peggy
BTW - We've had a few Humane Society critters around here before. Ask my husband about coming home to 14 assorted animals one night.

[A_mothers_love]

It saddens me when you speak of guilt. You have the right to parent. everyone has that right. It must be difficult to carry the pain of guilt every time your son does something silly...I hope you write all this down, those are the things that we want to hear from our childrens parents. Those are the happy moments that you can share with us.It is your right to enjoy parenting your child. I wish I could take your guilt away, know that even when we are in pain that we know it is ours even in moments of lashing out we are well aware that this is something we must work through, it is not about you parenting your child. never feel guilty for loving your child. Love him twice as much for her. Yes it is hard for us at times, I for one do not hold any anomosity for adoptive parents. It is hard to hear our pain, just as it is hard for us to hear of the antics our children play. If I had a choice to hear about them or not, I would hear them, even in pain.
It would be good if every adoptive parent was aware of the pain of the birthmother, but it is not good when it turns to guilt. You are only guilty of love. there is no harm in that. I think it is healthy to share feelings. even though some of us do not want to hear it. Validation for our feelings is what is most important.
Hugs
Melissa

[dl]

The woman at the agency that handled my adoption, and has been working with me to find bparents gave me the following information: There are many young women in college that when faced with finishing school and continuing with their career plans or raising a child due to an unexpected pregnancy, choose to finish school and place the child for adoption. These of course are the ones that did not choose abortion. The social worker told me this has been one of the most common explanations why a bmother chooses a plan of adoption for her child since the late 70's. Next most common is girls younger than 16 that choose not to be "children raising children". It was stated that it is no longer so much an issue of the family forcing the decision on a young girl out of shame as the stigma of single motherhood is no longer so prevalent. Young women today are less easily manipulated that those in years past and many make the decision for themselves. Extra marital affairs, both married women getting pregnant by someone other than their husband and women getting pregnant by a married man is the next most common explanation. There are also women that are emeshed in their careers and when faced with an unexpected pregnancy choose adoption. Victims of rape placing children for adoption is also very common. The number of bmothers that place a child for adoption due to being unmarried, poor, and without family support have decreased in recent years due to the acceptance of single motherhood and financial aid and services that are available.
The number of infertile couples that show up and ask the agency to find a fertile woman and convince her to get pregnant so that she may provide the infertile couple with a baby - ZERO.
This is a large agency in the midwest that does offer counseling and alternatives to bmothers. Contrary to what some believe, there are many bmothers that do not want to parent. Certainly not ALL - that's obvious by the posts that are made with the hindsight 20/20 vision - but they do exist in large numbers. Do we abolish adoption and force these women to "keep her baby in her own arms"? Good chance the abortion numbers would increase.

[radical]

I'm honored to have your posts on this thread.

Yes, I agree with you. Adoptive mothers are NOT the enemy. We should be working together with them, and they with us, to revise the system. As long as we're busy squabbling among ourselves, nothing will ever be accomplished. It only makes me defensive when a-moms present a smug, self-righteous attitude, telling me that nothing is wrong with the present system of adoption and acting as if I have no right to be dissatisfied with it. That said, I'm willing to try and work on my own attitude...I feel like yesterday I really went over the edge and got pretty mean (must've been PMS-ing or something). I apologize if I hurt anyone. I agree with Radical, we need to work TOGETHER, and brainstorm together to come up with ideas about how to improve adoption for everyone. I'm not holding any grudges against anyone, and I hope no one will hold any against me. Love, ivy

[longgreengrass]

Being a parent is not a right. being a parent is a privledge.

[dadfor2]

radical, its funny, i never thought id respond to something from you. I am a true believer, "dont add fuel to the fire" but this thread seemed a little more responsible.

i understand you are anti-adoption. but my children came from an abusive home where the b-mom abused them physically, emotinally, and i wont get into what else. She was mentally ill and many times refused to stay on her medication.

i guess for all who dont agree with adoption, what would you do? should they of kept the kids in the home and wait to see what would happen? Put the kids in foster home until the birth mom stayed on her meds? how long before she would have to stay on her meds would you decide she is ready to take her kids back? what if her kids on visits would scream "i dont want her here, i hate her" then they would tantrum to the point of needing to be restrained...theres just so many questions to ask.

just for the record, i am all for open adoption, i would love to know where the bmom is so if one day, when the children are ready, it is easy for them to get in touch with her, and then i can help them, but to be honest, it would have to come from the child and not the request of the birth mom.

I have no problem with birth mothers seeing thier birth children, im actually all for it, but when there is a loving home for some of these kids.....it just saddens me to think you would take this stance.

its just a thought
dadfor2

[radical]

Thank you for your post. The reason for this thread is to help me soften a few of my edges. I want to be more understanding, more compassionate of others who are coming from the polar site. I....do have to admit that not everyone is fit to parent. That is also true of those who adopt.

I want to learn to accept that some things in life are just too complex for easy answers....and I also want to teach that the issue of adoption is too often seen as the simple solution to a complex problem.

I also believe that older child foster and adoptions are a different matter than infant adoption.

I have very few conservative agendas....but substance abuse while pregnant is one of them...so is drunk driving. Any woman who uses or drinks or smokes while pregnant is abusing her child and should be court ordered into rehab.

I want to thank Ivy, Melissa and Kelli for their nice posts as well. I would love to see progressive adoption legislation become a reality. But the money talks...and it's the adoptive families who are spending. Let's all push for mandatory open adoption legislation-- in the event that adoption is necessary.

[mckenna]

i am in the process of adopting and want an open adoption, my adoption specialist (through dfs) states that mo does not recognize open adoptions, i think what she meant was that mo does not hold open adoption agreements legally binding. my questions are (1)does any state hold open adoption agreements legally binding and (2)if open adoptions were legally binding, is that for both sides birth and adoptive parents and who would over see that open adoptions were being maintained. i hope this is not too contraversial because i really like this thread, but am new to the adoption world and how things work.

[Jensboys]

Radical - you seem to have had lots of amom responses (and I hope more firstmoms respond too!) but here anyway here is another.

What I would change - more education regarding the grief of birthfamilies (either in infact adoption or in older child adoption) education by ALL parties as to the importance of openness - not for the bmom or the amom but for the CHILD.

I am in a bit of a unique situation I think. We adopted older children through DFS (after they had spent 3 years in a foster home). Shortly after having them home, I searched for and found their birthmom and her family and have had contact with them since. (including a visit with me, videos, letters and phone calls - she can call us anytime she wishes). Bmom recently (last 6 months or so) has cut off all contact with us. This does not hurt me directly, or even her directly, but it does hurt our sons. I dont think she realizes that.

Radical - having said that you are anti-infant adoption I wanted to ask you something. Have you ever worked with or loved an abused child? A child who is terrified of police or any adult wearing belts? A child who screams in terror at night? A child whose scars will never heal and whose cuts and bruises take months and months? Now dont get me wrong, I by NO MEANS am saying or even implying that all moms who make an adoption plan would of been abusive if they had parented BUT I am suggesting that if our sons bmom had had the courage or forsight to see that she wasnt capable of being the type of parent any child needs - the boys would of been spared SO MUCH. Our boys bmom loves them so much, needed them so much but still couldnt parent = and although, yes her grief now is severe, their grief from having been parented by her, then in foster care and then to be adopted is more. Infant adoption would of spared them alot (not that it would of spared them entirely of course) and would, in my humble opinion, been miles better for them then their bmom "trying" to parent and failing.

So I suppose, in saying that, although I absolutely agree that adoption should be a last resort for expectant parents, I am very wary from people trying to change a potential birthmom's mind. Suggesting that she should just "try" may be a sentence of horror for her child.

[radical]

Does anybody have the answers to Mckenna'a questions? As far as I know there are no states in which open agreements arelegaly enforcable...though I may be wrong.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

I am one birthmom who has been blessed with the support that I got and get from both the agency that I placed through, and the agency that I go to support group through. I also feel very blessed that faced with an unplanned pregnancy that I had a choice other than keep the baby, or kill the baby. I had a daughter when I was 18 years old, and chose to parent her. At 20 I found myself pregnant again due to a low-dose pill failure. I was working full time, going to school full time, and raising a two year old. I felt, and still feel that it would have been unfair to both children to raise the second one at the time, especially since I had a bad situation with the birthfather. I chose adoption. And from the start I never felt any pressure to place, as a matter of fact, I felt more pressure than I wanted to feel to keep the baby. I chose her adoptive parents, and knew right away that they were the perfect ones....but I did look through all the other profiles out of obligation..some had been waiting a lot longer than others, and some only wanted girls....but the couple that I chose were perfect and have been wonderful. I have a semi-opened adoption, I get pictures three times a year, and have the oportunity to call them through an 800 number whenever I want to. I would not have wanted to have been forced into an open adoption, so that I could relive that good-bye over and over, or would I want to interfere with how they raise her. This is not co-parenting and they have the right to raise their daughter as they seem fit, without my views even coming into it. So this leaves me with the peace of mind that I need to know that she is ok, and them with the privacy they need to raise their child. The extent of the openess will now be her decision when she gets to an age where she understands what is going on. They also have an adopted son, but as I understand it the birthmom can but hasnt had contact in a few years. I commend all of the adoption professionals that I have worked with. I even called the local agency here in Texas after I moved, and am able to attend support group at an agency that I didnt even place through. I would say that is pretty wonderful that they would provide a service to not just their birthmoms, but others, too. Im sorry for rambling....I just wanted to give a good opinion of both adoption agencies and adoptive parents. I do not support forcing anyone into a decision they dont want to make.....being forced to have an open adoption is just as bad as being forced to have a closed one. It should be what all parties are comfortable with... It would be terrible if a girl saw no other choice but abortion, because the 'new' adoption theories were not comfortable bondaries for her... i say that the varying degrees should stay the way that they are and parties should concentrate on finding a match that wants the same boundaries that they do! )K...Ill shut up now!!!

McKenna...In response to one of my posts, (can't remember which one now, or else I'd cut & paste it) an adoptive mother informed me that there are in fact four states that currently enforce open-adoption agreements. I don't believe she mentioned which ones. I do not know if this (the four states) is accurate or not, but it might be worth looking into if you are planning to enter an adoption agreement, either as an a-mom or a birthmother. -ivy

[HappyTwinsMom]

Radical, thanks for starting this out. I hope you don't mind one more adoptive mom's thoughts.

Regarding the question about legally enforceable open adoption agreements, I believe Washington is one of the states that has them. Not sure on the others.

As I was reading the thoughts someone posted (sorry, can't remember who right now) about feeling guilty because of the birthmom's pain and grief, I got to thinking about how fortunate I feel to be developing the relationship we have with our daughters' birthmom. She wanted these babies more than I can imagine. She loves them deeply and misses them always. She did know, however, that she wasn't capable of parenting them (and, in her own words, never even considered abortion). She chose us as their parents and has told me time and time again how pleased she is with us as parents. Because of this, I've never felt guilty or not entitled to parent my girls. She has given me the honor and the privilege of being a mommy, and I will be forever grateful for that.

Our adoption started out as semi-open, but is now completely open and I can't begin to tell you how excited we are about that. There will never be a time when my daughters don't know who and where their birthmom is, that she loves them completely, and wants the very best for them.

Again, Radical, thanks for starting this thread. I hope you find what you're seeking. It takes a very strong woman to admit when she needs help to deepen her compassion (I think those were your words?)...and I'm sure there are many here who want only to further each others' understanding and not to just fight.