[Janeytwo]

ODAT Pg. 103 Perhaps our too-heavy burdens have made us lose what faith we once had in a Power greater than ourselves. Perhaps faith was never a part of our lives and we are not convinced we need it. In Recovery we discover that the reality....of faith, as a force for good, can be demonstrated....When we let go of an overwhelming problem and let God handle it for us....



Ten years ago the loneliest place in my life was a gas station roughly 15 miles outside of Bowling Green on I-75. In terms of that station, it didn't have much to offer outside of stale Hostess cupcakes, a rack of gum, a freezer of pop, a choice between regular and premium unleadeds and a view of corn fields that stretched for miles. It also offered a subtle nuance of doom and disaster. (There was a storm coming in quickly from the south and so the wind was howling and the sky was black.)

It was eerie people. I felt like I'd arrived at some existential cross-roads and that God, for whatever odd reason, had decided to put a gas station there and then color the background with storm clouds. In fact, all that was missing was a line of evil-looking crows staring down at me from the powerlines waiting to attack.

And it didn't help that I was on my way to get married for the second time. I was terrified. Terrified of making the same mistake twice. See....I'd already done that on a far larger scale. Once upon a time I'd made the same mistake twice and it'd cost me two children.

I stood on the tarred pavement of the gas station; hands shaking as I slid my credit card at the pump, the "what if's" of life driving me near to a breakdown. What if I'm simply bailing out of my life by marrying this guy? What if I'm running again? What if he changes his mind in 3 months and bails on me? What if this marraige fails as my mother has predicted it will and that's one more thing my family can use to spit contempt at me with? What if....what if....what if....

The doubts were running through my mind faster than the gasoline pouring into my tank. A rediculous, fleeting thought came to mind that maybe I should grab my little 2 year old daughter who was sleeping in the back seat of the car and then run from the gas station and join some Amish community and hide out there. There had to be one somewhere abouts right? Maybe they'd take me in.

Then I thought back to the e-conversation I'd had with Jackie just the night before. How she told me that some decisions you simply had to make on faith and then see through to the end, no matter the outcome. Some decisions you simply had to place in God's Hands and then let Him run with them.

You are becoming the person you're meant to be, Janey. That's what Jackie said to me ten years and one week ago. Now, one decade later, I've learned some things...


Faith in a Power greater than myself has covered me in the last-chance-gas moments of life when I've felt that this was it; this was my one and only opportunity to get it right.

Faith in a Power greater than myself has carried me further in those times than my feet and my will ever could have.

Jackie....you were right my dear friend. You were right.

[shadow riderer]

Janey, I'm so glad you are posting again. I just got back from my hiking trip, which wasn't a hike but a freakin climb. I'll write about it later. I'm still recovering. Sheesh, am I out of shape. lol

Keep on keep'n on. (picture me giving you a thumbs up here) I'm proud of you.

[Janeytwo]

Hey Everybody!

Shadow thanks for the support. In my codependency I had convinced myself that you and one other in here absolutely hated my guts after my panic and run episode there!

Sigh...codependency really REALLY takes a toll on my sanity and for some reason re-routes itself to my ego!! Not good! I apologize for doubting you and the other person too. Oh and I hope that you are recovering from your climbing expedition!! LOL!!!

ODAT pg. 84 Sometimes I find myself relapsing into the old patterns that used to dominate my thinking....before I knew Recovery. I was crushed and defeated by the daily battering of living with codependency. Sometimes facing a new crises or challenge.....all the old fears and doubts come surging back. But only for the moment. I remind myself of all I have learned in Recovery and of the new dignity and confidence it has given me.


I was thinking last night that if someone were to ask me why I relinquished, I would only have a one-word answer; Fear

Not speaking in the "now" but in the "then", fear would've been my reasoning.

Fear has dominated much of my life; has driven me to make decisions in a sort of "seige" mentality; do-or-die thinking I guess you could call it. I've come to believe, in all honesty, that that was the way I thought I could combat fear. By sort of shaking my fist at it and saying, "Yeah I'll show you!!! I'll make this decision and then I'll laugh in your ugly face!! Take that "Fear"!!"

In this past year as I've ventured onto the slippery path of the past, I thought I would not fall off the wagon, so to speak, because I have years of Recovery under my belt and that, much like a person who's studied the martial arts for some time, I had a weapon at my disposal to vanquish my enemy "fear".

When I was frightened of "telling the tell"? Well then my plan was to either intellectualize my fear and thereby rid myself of it before it could do me harm, or I would simply ignore it and pretend it wasn't there so that it could go on its merry way and bother someone else. Thank you very much.

That should've been my clue right there that I was in trouble. But I was blinded by my own denial and fear came rushing in where I thought my angels couldn't tread.

It took on a paranoid life of its own and made me question not only myself (which quite frankly I excel at anyway) but everyone else as well. I was like some psycho guy you see in a bar who's hidden in that corner booth, clinging to his drink like it's a liferaft, his eyes darting around the room like he's waiting for the devil himself to arrive.

And in some ways, you know, he did.

However, I've learned in Recovery that fear always masks something deeper. And behind my fear of course? Anger. An anger so huge that I didn't know how to acknowledge it.

Now in this quiet moment, in the very quiet corner of the forum, I am trying to remember that fear is not the enemy. Fear helps us to act; it is the alarm button that warns us we are in danger.

And I had been in danger of letting all of this consume me and cut me off from myself and my God.

My fear was simply telling me to stop and reassess so that such a thing would not happen.

And that's a gift.

Thanks for listening.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by Janeytwo

I was thinking last night that if someone were to ask me why I relinquished, I would only have a one-word answer; Fear

Janey, I'm right there with you, my friend. I can see now that fear was the undercurrent during the last trimester of my pregnancy. I was absolutely terrified... How was I going to work a minimum-wage job (in 1972, this amounted to $1.65 per hour) and be able to pay a babysitter? If I went on welfare, how in the world was I going to be able to feed an infant commodities, i.e., potatoes, processed cheese, powdered milk? There were no food stamps then - those didn't arrive on the scene until 1974. And what if all the adults in my life were right, I wondered? What if my child really was called that ugly name out on the playground? Would he resent me...would he come to hate me? Would I ruin his life if I kept him? Was I even worthy of keeping him?

Why was I so afraid? Why didn't I stand up to my mother? Lord knows, I'd done it plenty of times before. But the last time I had stood up to her, she dumped me into the system as "beyond control". I spent five months in Juvenile Hall and another six months in reform school. The crime that I was charged with, you may ask? Running away from home after she informed me she was taking my father to court for child support. We got into a terrible argument that night. In my teenage mind, I thought that if I didn't live in her house anymore, then my dad wouldn't be required to pay the child support, which I knew he couldn't handle at the time. My little 3-year-old sister, my dad's youngest daughter from his second marriage, was laying in a hospital bed in Portland, Oregon, waiting for kidney surgery. Every penny my dad could scrounge up was going toward her operation. So I ran away...and the rest is history from long ago. I'm glad they don't incarcerate kids anymore for status offenses here in California...reform school is brutal.

Anyhoo, I think maybe I was scared that if I stood up to my mom again that she would send me back to reform school. And if that happened...well, they used to place all the babies into long-term foster care until their teenage moms got released. And I could not stomach that possibility at all. I did not want my baby languishing in some foster home.

The thing that gets me now about it is that I told my mother a couple years ago what was going thru my mind back then. And she has said repeatedly that she never would have done that to me again. I wish I had had the courage to open my mouth and tell her I wasn't going to give my baby up for adoption. I tried to do this a few days before he was born, but the words just came out all wrong, and I only ended up sobbing uncontrollably. Still, though, I often wonder how in the world a mother can watch her daughter relinquish her firstborn child and not ask her why she's doing it or how she feels about it. She never asked me one single question. Years later, she said she regretted our family losing him, that she felt devastated when I relinquished him. Why in the world didn't she tell me that before I signed those darn papers? I wasn't a mindreader as a teenager...

Originally Posted by Janeytwo

However, I've learned in Recovery that fear always masks something deeper. And behind my fear of course? Anger. An anger so huge that I didn't know how to acknowledge it.

Janey, it kind of goes in the opposite direction with me. In my own life, anger almost always covers up my fear, especially if there is a feeling of helplessness involved. If I'm scared and feeling helpless, I get really angry. Nowadays when I feel anger rising up, I look quickly at what is triggering it. I usually find fear hiding there somewhere deep inside me... The anger I use as a guidepost these days - when I'm angry and out of sorts, I know something needs my attention and focus. As Jackie is always saying, anger is to be acted upon, not acted out. And I try to remember this whenever it rears up.

Well, I've rambled enough, lol. Thanks for listening...

[Janeytwo]

Hey Raven!! Hey Everybody!!

I'm right there with you, my friend. I can see now that fear was the undercurrent during the last trimester of my pregnancy. I was absolutely terrified...

It's strange for me how the fear went in stages. First there was that initial "Oh no! Am I pregnant? I can't be pregnant can I?" thing that young women do. I rode that rollercoaster of "yeah I am"...."no, I'm not" for weeks.

Then in the middle was the pretending stage for me. Pretending that bdad was going to step up to the plate and marry me and everything was going to be bliss!! (Good grief). It's almost hard to imagine at this age I am now, that I could've told myself such things. The hope of youth....a double-edged sword because it kept me going but kept me from facing reality.

Then of course those last few months when I knew that the decision I'd had in the back of my mind all along was to be reality.

What if my child really was called that ugly name out on the playground?

That was my father's one and only concern. Not that he cared about my child but that he didn't want any part of his life to "tainted" by the ugly name. Everything we did you see...my siblings and I...every move we made...every sound...was a reflection of his reputation of his idea of what he was. Sheesh!!

Would he resent me...would he come to hate me? Would I ruin his life if I kept him? Was I even worthy of keeping him?

Yeah this one I totally get. When I'm driving through the old neighborhood doing research and I'll see kids walking by, pounding the pavement, tattered clothes, that street walk, head down....and I know the realities of life in the rundown places. To be trapped. Would my children have resented that because with 3 children? The odds of "getting out" as it were are slim indeed. Heck, I barely got out with my eldest daughter. I barely got out then.

Yeah....I can see what you were picturing in your mind. I can relate totally.

Still, though, I often wonder how in the world a mother can watch her daughter relinquish her firstborn child and not ask her why she's doing it or how she feels about it. She never asked me one single question. Years later, she said she regretted our family losing him, that she felt devastated when I relinquished him. Why in the world didn't she tell me that before I signed those darn papers? I wasn't a mindreader as a teenager...

My mom always steals my grief over my children. Not...not that she's doing deliberately I don't think but the few times we've spoken of it recently she tells me how devastating it was for her. How much it hurt her. I've been upset by that. In the past she's accused of me of stealing her grandchildren; robbing her of them.

You talk about being scared I've never had the courage to confront her on that; to tell her how much she hurt me with those statements.

I dunno....perhaps it is overwhelming guilt on their part. I realized the other day that my mother has been doing my sentence with me....those long years in the shadows...

Still, I always have this feeling that, as a dutiful daughter, I should acquiese (sp?) and agree that it was harder on her than it was me. I hate that!! Because there is no way it was harder on her. Different maybe...harder? Uh uh.

And finding the courage to say "No! I'm keeping my baby!" I dunno bud....a 16 or 17 year old girl doing that? I don't see it. Someone in their late 20's...maybe. But I watch even people in their 30's and 40's who don't have the courage to confront their parents (me being one of them as per my writing above).

I think as teens we feel that the world is pulling us along and we are just there for the ride (if that makes sense). I am not sure the concept of personal power even crosses a teen's mind. I think that that is why so many teens in the 16 year old category who are being abused stay in the home....because they don't realize that they are at an age where they can be emancipated. They just believe it. On one hand perhaps it is a natural teenaged aversion to authority while at the same time believing we didn't have any.

I like what Jackie said about anger.

Hugs to you today!! :-)

[quantum]

Originally Posted by Janeytwo

My mom always steals my grief over my children. Not...not that she's doing deliberately I don't think but the few times we've spoken of it recently she tells me how devastating it was for her. How much it hurt her. I've been upset by that. In the past she's accused of me of stealing her grandchildren; robbing her of them.


I dunno....perhaps it is overwhelming guilt on their part. I realized the other day that my mother has been doing my sentence with me....those long years in the shadows...

Still, I always have this feeling that, as a dutiful daughter, I should acquiese (sp?) and agree that it was harder on her than it was me. I hate that!! Because there is no way it was harder on her. Different maybe...harder? Uh uh.

This one hit me today Janey. Especially with my upcoming visit to my parents and how they are going to have their first FTF with my son and so on.
Some months ago my mom said something to me on the phone about 'oh those years we missed with him'. I just wanted to SCREAM
They lay the blame on ME. 'Hey it was YOUR decision blah blah blah' But they never offered any other options. Well a have baked 'we could adopt him and raise him as your brother' which my dad did NOT want to do.

*SIGH*

Anyway I had to tell myself and my husband 'I have TOO MUCH pain myself, I CAN NOT deal with her pain' no way no how.

hope you have a good weekend...

[RavenSong]

Janey and Quantum - Great big hugs to you both. It sounds like we're dealing with the same stuff when it comes to our parents...

Originally Posted by Janeytwo

My mom always steals my grief over my children. Not...not that she's doing deliberately I don't think but the few times we've spoken of it recently she tells me how devastating it was for her. How much it hurt her. I've been upset by that. In the past she's accused of me of stealing her grandchildren; robbing her of them.

Janey, I know exactly what you're talking about. My mom always, always makes it all about her, not me and certainly not my son. If she's feeling particularly nasty towards me, she'll make some snipe at me about him. And she'll start the infuriating thing about how much she hurt when we lost him, how she never really told me I had to give him up, how adoption was my own idea. Like Quantum said in her latest post, she never once offered any other option. I have a hard time getting past this thing with my mom. I'm tired of her throwing it in my face. You know, we're always telling each other here on the forum that birthmoms aren't responsible for amom's pain, and amoms aren't responsible for birthmom grief, etc. I would like to have the guts to just come out and tell my mom that I'm not responsible for her grief. It's not like she ever protested me placing DS for adoption. Thirty-seven years later (today is his birthday!), she says that she didn't want to add to my pain at the time of relinquishment by sharing her own feelings with me. That's a load of crapola...the woman never has hesitated one second in my entire life to hurt me or to lay the responsibility of her own feelings and the outcome of her life, for that matter, on my shoulders.

I don't have much patience with her, I guess. She makes me tired.... If it's my responsibility to deal with my own emotions, feelings, and experiences, why isn't it her responsibility to do the same thing for herself? I can't carry the burden of her "grandmother grief". It's all I can do to deal with my own grief and the emotional damage that adoption caused my son. I can't do her too...

My dad had very deep feelings about losing his firtborn grandson. He kept those feelings pretty much to himself, unless he was drunk. And then he'd throw the whole thing in my face. I tried to make it up to him, I think, by introducing him to my son the day after reunited with him. What I didn't realize was going to happen is that my dad's issues with the relinquishment came bursting up to the surface when he met his grandson. You know how birthmoms often find themselves facing unexpected emotions, memories, and issues during the first year of reunion? Well, the same thing happened to my dad. It broke my heart, especially when I watched him interacting with his grandson. The two of them are eerily alike in so many ways. In fact, the initial photographs that were taken during the first week of our reunion show the two of them together mirroring each other in their poses...they look almost like clones of each other.

When my dad died, my son was with me at his bedside. We both prayed together at the moment of my father's passing. I know that he feels he missed out on a lot when it comes to his grandfather. I found out about a year after my dad's death that my son visited his grave at least once a week. That made me sad, thinking of him sitting alone next to his grandfather's grave. I wish they had had more time together....

Originally Posted by quantum

Some months ago my mom said something to me on the phone about 'oh those years we missed with him'. I just wanted to SCREAM
They lay the blame on ME. 'Hey it was YOUR decision blah blah blah' But they never offered any other options. Well a have baked 'we could adopt him and raise him as your brother' which my dad did NOT want to do.

I get the same exact thing from my mom, Quantum. And I understand about wanting to SCREAM when she does it.

I found out a long time ago from one of my mom's friends that she always tells people that she didn't force me to relinquish my baby. The thing is, though, she did make it abundantly clear to me that I would never be welcomed into her home if I kept him. She never once sat down with me and talked about how to raise a child or how to be an adult, for that matter. She gave me no guidance at all, and I just had no clue at all about how to operate in the adult world. No options equal very few choices, IMHO.

Thanks for listening to me this morning, my friends.

[BrockBaby]

I have skimmed this thread several times, but could never bring myself to post on it. Perhaps it was the "fear" of having to face some of those things that I dealt with in an open forum kept me from doing so. I just want to say that your honesty, integrity, and obvious support of each other is heart-warming to read.

I think when things are brought out into the light, exposed so to speak, they start to lose their power. No, I just don't know that..it's the truth. So many times we all carry things inside of us...thinking nobody else feels this way. Or, If they only knew what I really thought. We are then tormented by those thoughts and feelings. Then, one day we share it...we open up, maybe even just a little bit. And we realize...nothing horrible happened. I'm okay. And while we still have to deal with the effect of whatever it is we went through, did, ect...the power it had once held has started to lose it's grip..even if it's just one tiny bit at a time. And in that, we have the hope that one day it will lose it's power over us. And while it won't change what happened, we'll change. We'll change our thoughts about us. We'll change our responses. We'll grow.....

[-maggie]

Hey guys! I REALLY hope its ok that I join you here! I have been dealing with some serious anger with my mom lately. I have been beating myself up for not being able to forgive her for everything.

On one hand I guess I’m fortunate that she has never discusses anything with me. She never makes any remarks or even acknowledges any of the past. I feel for you all having to take on their pain…. That is not your responsibility. I am so sorry that they put that on all of you. You have enough of a burden to carry without their guilt. On the other hand, I do wish my mom cared, even just a little bit would be nice.

For me, my mom could care less how I feel or that I have suffered at all. I wish she could. But, it is what it is and it will never change. I have FINALLY come to peace with my mom. I can’t forgive her yet, but I am at peace. I’ve just accepted.

Janey, I too am that dutiful daughter that will always do as expected. And you are right about personal power never crossing a teen’s mind. At least it is true for me. I was a terrified girl that was on my own. Not one person cared about me. I was weak. I desperately wish I could have been strong then.

I have been so terrified of facing my mother now, now that I have communication with my daughter. I didn’t think I could face her with all of this anger that has built. I have the strength to face her now. I am still terrified, which seems odd, but now I really understand how I am not responsible for everything in the past and I refuse to let her have control over me. I will still break down after and that is ok. She will not recognize me that day. I have changed my entire mindset with her. I will be able to finally stand up for myself, 20 years too late, but finally!

RAVEN – Happy Birthday to your son! I know how hard birthdays can be…. Hang in there!

You are right that you shouldn’t carry the Grandmother Grief. That is hers to bear. Don’t even try.

“no options means very little choices” – exactly what I faced too. What other “choice” did we have? I felt it was either adoption or the streets…. Raven, we did the best we could under the circumstances. I know I’ve gotta learn to accept that one! It’s a toughy for me.

Quantum - Good luck with their first f2f. I hope it goes well!

I never understood why dealing with mothers is so darn hard. I am trying so hard with my rchildren. I desperately hope that our relationships will be able to continue when they are an adult. I refuse to pass on ANY of my mother’s issues. All the “stuff” and lies are ending with me. I will not allow my children to deal with any of it.

I hope everyone is having a great day! Thanks for letting me interrupt….

[quantum]

Hear hear Maggie! I'm also trying very hard to break the cycles of my Mom and my Dad.

It was interesting what you said about your mom not talking about it at all. That's what it was like for me until the day I told them about finding my son! 22 years of SILENCE. Really! Then, get this, I was visiting them at the time...I told my mom over lunch. My dad called me in after she told him and said he was pleased that I wouldn't get any 'surprises' (as in my son showing up out of the blue WHICH I WOULD HAVE WELCOMED) and asked a couple of questions and then....NOTHING not a word, NOTHING.

I have let loose a couple of times on my parents, one thing my mom said after that trip was 'we didn't want to talk about it over the years, we didn't want to pull the scab off of that wound'. I answered with 'not talking about it meant that wound NEVER HEALED'

Anyway, it's a bit better now, especially since I realised no matter how my parents react it pisses me off! I think it's because my pain never gets acknowledged. I don't know 100%.
What I would do for some therapy! :-)
Oh yea, that's why I'm here...

[kakuehl]

Hey Quantum, think we can find time for a talk while you're here with your family???

[Janeytwo]

Hey everybody!! :-)

Thanks for all the great replies!!! You guys are awesome!! :-)

I want to respond but, if you guys don't mind, I am exhausted today and need to call it a day I think (vis-a-vis the emotional stuff) LOL!

So I will post in the morning. I bet you're all just waiting by the computer with baited breath!! (evil snicker)

Oh and Brock and Maggie. You guys are welcome here anytime to this quiet little corner of the eworld.

Lots of love, support and recovery. Which I certainly know I need.

Love you guys very much! :-)

Janey

[kakuehl]

I had to learn that I was not responsible for my mother's happiness. I grew up feeling that no matter what I did it wasn't good enough. Imagine how I felt when I had to admit to her that I was pregnant (not married). (Her lectures when I was a teen -- about sex-- usually contained the line "I wouldn't do that to my parents." I'm not sure she ever forgave me for choosing adoption. The bottom line was that whether or not I chose adoption I would not have raised D. Everyone talks about wishing they had had support -- I had it; Mom would have kept D until I graduated college and got a job. My dad agrees that it would have been difficult to be D's mother because Mom would have taken over. As it was, when I had the children I raised, Mom spent a lot of time telling me how to raise my children -- when to potty train, etc. She would tell me what I was doing wrong and then on Mother's Day she sent me beautiful Mother's Day card telling me what a great mother I was! I don't think that she ever quite forgave me for placing D. (For years she included him in the number of grandsons she listed in her Christmas notes.) It does sadden me that she will not meet D (she died in 1996).

I have worked over the years to let go of the emotions that come from feeling like I never was good enough. The funny thing is that my mother did love me unconditionally... she just took responsibility for my actions. (They reflected on her ability as a mother, you see.) Like many of you I have sought not to do the same things to my own children. (My son J likes to say that she really did a number on me.)

[-maggie]

Hey Quantum!!! This subject is about to be brought up with my mom and I pretty much KNOW how it will go… after all these years she’s pretty predictable. But, that doesn’t make it hurt any less. I am finally at a place that I can focus on my daughter & myself and let Mom deal with herself. I refuse to do it this time!

You are ABSOLUTELY right that not talking about it meant that wound NEVER healed. I finally understand that I need to talk. I also hear ya on your pain never being acknowledged. Honestly, we deserve at least that!!! IMO

Thanks for sharing everyone!

[quantum]

Originally Posted by kakuehl

Hey Quantum, think we can find time for a talk while you're here with your family???

I'm counting on it Kathy! :-)

It actually helps maggie (and others) to know that I'm not the only one getting these reactions! One starts to wonder if one is insane and alone in the world!
It helps to hear others stories.

BTW Kathy, my mom NEVER spoke to me about sex! She carries a huge burden thinking this is all her fault. Good grief.