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#1
10-12-2007, 05:41 AM
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On the subject of books
Robinsmom posted on the thread
I think my Bdaughter is schizophrenic And I wanted to reply to it here.. in a new thread.. I think it is a very important topic.. I would love to read comments on what books have helped with this healing or sorting giving a baby up for adoption. Robinsmom wrote. Jackie, Back in the seventies, we were told never to tell. Even though it was a time of freedom for most, having a baby and not being married was still looked at as something only the baddest of girls did. We were almost programed to keep our mouths shut. I think the main reason why I never told anybody was because I felt ashamed, because it was made to be such a secret. I did know one girl who had a baby at the same time as I did. We went to the same place to have our children. She took her baby home, where as I could not. I saw her often, but we never spoke of it. Her mother ended up raising her child. We went to high school together and never talked to each other about this horrible secret we both carried. Though I suppose I would have changed the subject if she had brought it up. The hurt was still too new for me to deal with. Everything back then was to hard to deal with, so I locked myself up inside. Maybe it was a test, to see how much one girl could take without giving up on life all together, who knows, all I can say is that I would wish it on no other. On the subject of books, I know to some, they are great tools in which to learn from, a place where you can find bits and pieces of the story that relate to you. For me, they have been little if any help, I had been taught to read for enjoyment, so books that were written as non-fiction, have never really been able to catch my attention. Maybe I am wrong, maybe the books would have helped, but for me, it would have been another escape into a world of being alone. Had I gotten into it, i would have spent more time alone pouring over those books, and never found a reason to open my mouth and talk about it. Don't get me wrong, I love to read, and do it quite often, but I can close out the whole world when I am lost in a book. In fact, I am reading a wonderful book right now, that my daughter Rachel gave me, "The five people you will meet in Heaven", it's a very interesting book about who shall guide us, when we get to heaven, it really makes you think. I highly recommend it to anybody who is feeling low about life. It makes you think about the lives you have touched while on your journey, people you don't even know about. Though i still miss my bdaughter, I have grown used to the idea of life without her. Her birth was a huge part of my life, and who I have become. If I could talk to her, I would thank her, for giving me peace, and allowing me to heal. I may not have been able to do that, had she not come back, or had shut the door right away, not allowing me to know her. I can no longer be angry about it. I got as much as she could give, and though at the time, I thought it wasn't enough, I guess it really was. I am a much better person for having known her. Even though it worked out the way it did, at least I don't have to wonder anymore. It has given me peace and has freed me from the awful guilt I carried for so long. Perhaps in time, we can work it out, if not, I can live with the knowledge I have. Colleen Last edited by Jackiejdajda : 10-12-2007 at 06:05 AM. 
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#2
10-12-2007, 06:03 AM
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I would not wish that kind of experience on anyone. The isolation that some of us went through was terrible... And I personally do not think that anything can be sorted in that kind of isolation.. There is no outside input.. No new ideas.. Our thoughts just go around and around in our heads with no resolution.. I know that was the way with me.. I just went on holding time with my issues around the trauma of giving my son up for adoption.. We are tribal people IMO.. Isolation helps no one.. Quote:
I remember when my first sponsor in AA had me read books and underline and mark pages of the books.. I remember when she sat with me and we read the books together.. and discussed what I underlined.. And I remember a sponsee of mine in Alanon years later.. I remember when we went over Melody Beatties twelve step book.. how we went over pages and pages of her words.. What she learned.. What I learned.. I was isolated locked up in my home when I first got into books.. heck the therapist had me read a book and we discussed it.. She had me write out a chart that was in that book about life situations and how I reacted.. What was the incident? What were my first thoughts? What was the actual truth of what happened? When I was isolated in my home I would think people were laughing at me when I went out.. I remember one time when I was going shopping (the main reason I went out) and it was raining and I had a rain coat on and some fellow was laughing at me.. I told the therapist about it.. and how I must have looked so awful that someone would laugh at me.. She said.. well maybe he was totally crazy.. ah.. Quote:
I talk with my mom and dad.. now.. I think of them being in heaven.. When I cook my mom stands over my shoulder and tells me how to do it.. I can hear their voices.. I love the Tibetan book of the Dead.. as it says that when we die we sort our past life.. and make a decision as to what to do next.. I like that.. Quote:
My bson the same.. My life was the part of giving him up in the closed era.. and the shame and guilt and the not talking.. etc Quote:
Its an amazing experience.. Its worth all of it.. it’s the circle closing.. the good the bad and the painful.. all coming together so we can find closure.. I was thinking yesterday that reunion tosses us into these emotions.. stuff that some of us are very capable of burying.. stopping.. making go away.. To me it was automatic.. I could not do automatic when he came into my life.. I had to deal with things.. Quote:
Yes.. me too.. Jackie Last edited by Jackiejdajda : 10-12-2007 at 06:26 AM.
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#3
10-31-2007, 08:41 AM
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"The Girls Who Went Away" by Ann Fessler
Glad to see a thread on books, Jackie... thanks!
I first saw this book as a new release in our local bookstore the summer of 2006. I picked it up to have a look and as soon as I realized what it was about I felt sick to my stomach. I put it back down and had to leave the store. When I "suddenly" found my son in Jan 2007, I wanted to understand "things." It was the first book I thought of, so I ordered it from the bookstore. It was the beginning of what I now call "The Great Purge" and it was what released the "Wall of Tears" that had been backing up for over 35 years. My husband read it, too, and he cried as well. I bought three more books to pass around to my friends and family. One of my friends was reading the book on a plane... he was crying so much that the woman sitting next to him asked if he was okay. I am unwilling to share my experience with others unless they are willing to share my tears as well. My story is not for entertainment purposes or to satisfy someone's curiosity. My son's amom and asis and I are now in contact with each other. I have asked them to read the book as well, so that we can have a common understanding of the historical context. Thanks for the thread... I hope others reply with books that have been helpful for them. Peace, Susan 
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#4
10-31-2007, 10:46 AM
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The Girls that Went Away.. is a hard book for me to sort..
I never ever want pity.. And I get angry about it.. I think it is something in me that does not want to grieve.. or do I not allow me that pain.. that pathos.. That it was done to me and it was the worst thing that could happen.. Reading the threads today a woman (that relinquished in the closed era) wrote that she had everything done for her when she found out she was pregnant.. All was arranged.. and I get angry about that as well.. Heck how do we process when everything is done for us.. How do we stay connected with what is going down.. I will not be an object of pity tho.. and yes it happened for some of us.. but we get to grieve that.. I hate that I was not allowed to see my son when he was born.. they took care of me.. tried to take my pain away.. Make it all go away.. but I will have my own pity.. not from everyone.. I do not know where this is coming from.. tho.. I had to be strong then.. and I have to be strong now.. Jackie PS re-reading this post.. I see I am a bit nutty about this..
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#5
10-31-2007, 01:44 PM
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Lancing the wound...
(((Jackie)))
From your post above... "The isolation that some of us went through was terrible... And I personally do not think that anything can be sorted in that kind of isolation..There is no outside input.. No new ideas.. Our thoughts just go around and around in our heads with no resolution.. I know that was the way with me.. I just went on holding time with my issues around the trauma of giving my son up for adoption.. We are tribal people IMO.. Isolation helps no one.." I agree, Jackie. I do not want anyone's pity, either. I simply want others to understand what happened. When people understand what happened to us back then, we will hear less of the "How could you..." type of questions. The irony: The daughter I raised is a 30 y/o single mom of a beautiful 2 y/o boy. She was and is supported by her family in every way. "Society" has not jumped all over her for being an "unwed" mother. There were no cruel people calling her child an "illegitimate b@$t@rd." She is simply a single mom, who was raised by a single (divorced) mom (me). I was a good enough single mom for her that she decided she could be a single mom, too. She, obviously, kept her son. One day, as she was cuddling with her son, admiring how beautiful he was, she started to say, "I just don't see how anybody could give their child..." and then stopped short as she realized to whom she was speaking. I was speechless, hurt and bewildered, but said nothing. And this was after my son and I found each other. She even helped me to search for him. She is a loving daughter, but she didn't and still doesn't "get it." She's at university and doesn't have time for outside reading. Maybe one day she will have time to read the book. The son I raised will not read the book, even though I brought a copy to him. I brought the book back home, unopened, and passed it on to someone else to read. My son "R" (surrendered in 1971, found in 2007) has read the book, though, and he understands a lot more. I believe it helped our relationship. I do not want his pity, only his understanding, which he has given me, and for which I am deeply grateful. It is not about pity, but rather education... so that we are no longer in isolation... so that we may have a shared history... and to help ensure that history will not repeat itself. The book splayed me open... and allowed the poison to leave my body. I am healing now... and I am no longer toxic, to myself, or to others. It was worth the pain, but lancing a wound is never a pretty sight... Love, Susan
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#6
11-01-2007, 07:41 AM
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Oh lordy another layer to the onion..
I know I got something in me on this.. Susan.. I am going to spend some time.. searching me.. on this.. Your words make sense.. I know I am triggered.. Such a biggie this.. "How could you do this?".. my husband also said that.. I thought I was fixed.. I thought I was all better.. But still I can not speak on the phone with my bson without.. being afraid.. HELP  Jackie
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#7
11-01-2007, 08:35 AM
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I hate onions...
...they make me cry and give me indigestion!
Jackie, ask your husband to read the book. It really answers the "how could you..." question. For me, the decision to surrender was mine. My mother begged me not to. My father felt it was my decision alone to make, and he supported whatever that decision was. I was engaged, and my fiance abandoned me (at his mother's urging) when I became pregnant. He even came to our house to ask for the ring back. Of course, I told him that the ring was a gift to me and that I would be keeping it, thanks very much. My father asked me if I wanted him to make my boyfriend marry me. I thanked my dad for the offer, but told him that "shotgun" weddings were no longer legal. The influence that I was under was that of our society. It is the same influence that drove some of our parents to coerce us into surrendering. They were manipulated by the same society that condemned us for being "unwed." We were all "driving under the influence." It was in the air we breathed... few people were able to escape this unrelenting pressure from the "morality makers." But, just because my parents were supportive of me does not mean that all other extended family members were. I love my extended family, but there were a couple of very mean ones among the bunch of them. They were close to my mother, and I didn't see that my mom was able to fend them off very well. They brought her to tears on many occasions. There was no way that I would let them punish my innocent child with their words and hateful attitudes. I did what I felt I had to do in order to protect my son. It just about killed my mother... she was with me for my son's birth (well, they wouldn't let me see her until after he was born -- I was completely alone then). She was begging me not to do this... she called my father and begged him to stop me... I thought I would die that day... and part of me did... part of my mom died that day as well... I was 18 and I have to live with the fact that it was my decision. There is no one else to be angry at, except this nebulous thing called "societal expectations." And, two mean relatives who have since died. So, the only thing I can do is work to educate people about an era in our country's history that was hugely ignorant and manipulative. Jackie, you should know that no matter how "successful" my reunion sounds, I am also plagued with insecurity. And, I have never spoken to my son on the phone. He prefers email, and I feel more secure behind the written word as well. I am afraid to hear his voice without seeing him in front of me... and, I don't know why... I, too, feel that when I think I have reached the core, I find yet another layer to peel away. It is painful, and I hear your pain. May we both find peace... Love, Susan
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#8
11-02-2007, 05:36 PM
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Susan and Jackie, I stepped into this thread for a booklist and instead got so much more. It was like reading so many pieces of my own story.
Surrendering my son was my decision, and I can’t blame anyone else for it, nor do I want any pity. I’m also not sure I can expect anyone to really understand unless they’ve faced a similar challenge. But support? Acceptance? Truth-telling? Yes, all of that. I want to be able to talk about my experience and not be judged or feel that members of my family are still ashamed of me after 28 years! It will be a year next week since I was contacted about my son, and I still have a sister and a brother who have not told their children who range in age from 17 to 1 year old (that’s ten of my parents’ 27 grandchildren) that he exists. Not long ago my mother told me she knew that she “could never have done it”—given up her child. It reminded me of the people at work at the time of my pregnancy in 1978-79 who would say, to my face, “What kind of person gives up her own baby?” I know my mother didn’t mean to ask that particular question, but it felt pretty much the same. I wanted to say, “Live my life, be in my situation and then see what you might decide to do.” Almost every time I have told my story to someone over the years, the response has seemed supportive and well-meaning, but has also included some kind of phrasing like, “You must be a very strong person. I don’t think I could have done it.” It sounds like a compliment, but it really isn’t. It’s like I’m some kind of freak to whom no one can relate. I would always brush aside the “compliment” and say that my decision to place was best for both of us, so as to deflect the feeling of being a sinner in saint’s clothing. But the question nagged and nagged and this year I’ve had a violent inner struggle with it. Once in the process of reunion, I found it so difficult to remember my reasons for placing him. Everything I could list seemed to have a solution, or at least seems like it would have been solvable, had I worked hard enough on the problem. Guilt and shame abounded. A common theme that ran through all of the reasons, however, was that lack of true support. As my husband was watching my meltdown as I explored the horrific realization that placing my child was probably a mistake, that I had made a choice that could not be taken back and that had caused so much pain in my life and the lives of so many others (including my son’s, whose upbringing was quite different than I had hoped for him), I told him that no one in my family ever tried to talk me out of it. It was hard to say this without sounding like I was blaming others for my choice, but I had to say it anyway. I know my parents thought they were being supportive of my choice, but I had to wonder why no one said “Stop! Think about this.” I was 21 years old and had never been a parent. How could I know what I was giving up? The choice was mine, but how could I really know what I was choosing? I think of my own daughters at this age, (currently 25 and 19) and I wonder how they would feel prepared to be able to make such an irrevocable decision. I know that I felt that no matter what my parents said, they were so ashamed of me that they thought it would be best to just have this thing be over, close the book, bury the evidence that their Catholic-raised daughter had had sex without being married. Well, fast forward to last month, as I’m dealing with the stress of the sibling reunion, (and, of course, all the stuff that goes along with the ongoing new relationship with my son…) and my mother tells me that she knows that I’ve had a lot of pain over the years, but the choice was mine. And, after all, she had written me a letter during my pregnancy telling me that if I wanted to change my mind about the adoption and keep the baby they’d support me 100%. I have absolutely NO recollection of ever reading this letter. My mother tells me that I replied asking her not to say this to me again, because if I talked about it I could never go through with it. Of course, I have no recollection of this reply, either, but it made me sick to my stomach because it rang so true to my feelings at the time. I didn’t even see my son after his birth, never held him, because I knew instinctively that had I touched him I could never have let him go. I knew what I had to do to get through the relinquishment and I did it. Again, this will sound like I’m blaming my mother for not stopping me, but if my daughter had said that to me, I hope I’d say, “Hold on a minute. If even the mention of a different possibility is enough to make you change your mind, maybe we need to look at things again.” I want to think that my mother was trying to respect my decision to place, but I can’t help remembering how they hid me from my grandmother as soon as I started to show. I didn’t want my child to grow up under the judging eye of my family for whom my pregnant stomach was viewed as a flaunting of my sin. At the time, my mother kept telling me she didn’t know what she was supposed to tell my younger brothers and sisters (ages 10-19 at the time), and how it was insensitive of me to get pregnant when my older married sister had been trying to get pregnant and couldn’t, and the least I could do was consider giving her my baby. It sure felt like a hostile environment to me! I can’t go back and change the past, and maybe my mother’s offer was sincere, maybe she’d processed all of it and was ready to be supportive at a certain point. If I don’t have any recollection of the letter, it’s impossible for me to judge whether the context and attitudes had shifted, but I think at the very least they remained ambivalent. Despite this, I do know that my mother and father loved and love me, and did what they thought was right and that they believed their offer to help was sincere. I think the problem does lie in the cultural disease of shame and judgment, whether it’s a family culture, a religious culture, or a general societal failure. Everyone thinks it’s so wonderful that couples get to adopt, but no one wants to admit that these babies come from someone! Or it’s more comfortable to think that they come from bmothers who somehow “deserve” the pain of separation from their children. My own family of origin is vigorously anti-abortion and pro-adoption, but when it came to my son returning to our family’s life, I’ve encountered so much angst and resistance, the need to “wait until we know,” the shame of what happened 28 years ago resurfacing all over the place. Not a very good way to support adoption, if you continue to punish the one who followed the stated cultural norm and gave up her child! But that’s because the stated cultural norm is not the de facto norm. The truth is that those of us who surrendered our children, for whatever reason, for whatever good we created (“At least you provided a baby for a couple who couldn’t have one, so your pain has purpose,” says my well-meaning mom…) violated the agreed upon definition of what it means to be a mother. In family and in society, we are often seen as freaks, the “kind of woman” who can give up her own child. This is where the isolation comes from for me. I don’t personally know of another single woman who placed a child. I don’t know if education will lead to understanding, per se, but I do think it’s absolutely essential for illuminating the truth that’s been forever hidden in the darkness of lies and misconceptions and stereotypes. When my son came back to me I gently put my family of origin on notice: I won't keep the secret anymore. Susan—although my son and I do talk on the phone very occasionally, I never, ever call him. We stick to topics like work and food and “it’s so good to hear your voice.” He usually ends the conversation with “I love you, Ma. I’ll call you tomorrow” but, of course, I know he won’t and I’m used to that now. I’m not secure enough, either, to discuss anything of substance on the phone. When he’s truly present and “in the zone” with me, we have been able to cover some amazing ground together via instant messaging, but I’m always careful to be sure he isn’t too tired or distracted or short on time. It’s taken some months to figure this out, and there’s never enough contact to satisfy me, but at least now I generally know what to expect, so it’s getting easier. Jackie—I know what you mean about being unable to process and sort these things out in isolation. Staying in my own head is the worst thing I can do. I think we were meant to live in community with those who understand our pain, so we can learn from, comfort, and support each other, but also with those who might not be able to understand it so we can bring our stories into the light and air, and maybe prevent them from being repeated.
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#9
11-03-2007, 06:48 AM
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Ode to the onion.. And there it is.. it is what it is what it is.. You Susan have turned me around on this.. I have been ranting in other places about this book.. I have been saying the anti’s have been using this book.. and getting into fights.. But yes.. Just so they know what happened.. and its okay to be vulnerable.. I hate being vulnerable.. Quote:
I immediately want to write.. Ohhhh he is not like that any more. But.. Always the but.. Quote:
Wow.. Hard things.. Hard hard things. Quote:
My sister and I spoke about this once.. We talked about how my parents were first generation over to North America.. and they were from poor struggling people.. in the new world.. My grandmother rolled cigars in the cigar factory.. Mom was terrified of being poor.. And then if society turns its back on you.. you may end up poor.. not have made it.. “How will you get a husband?” mom said.. and that was the prime directive in my early years.. Getting a husband and getting safe.. home free.. Quote:
Yes.. Mom and dad were drinking full time on those days.. I could not have left my son with my mom while I worked.. And my sister would have gotten in some awful stuff if I had of kept.. she agreed with me years later.. She married well.. married money.. married the doctor.. And his parents would not have tolerated my son born out of wedlock.. He would have had to have suffered..from cruel words. Quote:
Oh.. I can not imagine what you went through.. at least I was able to shut it down.. Pull back and be no one nothing.. You had to go into emotions.. Quote:
Wake Up Little Susie.. and Beggars and Choosers.. were written by a historian.. And those books tell it all.. Rickie Solinger said that when she wrote Wake Up Little Susie.. she was writing and or researching.. the way African American women were treated.. as opposed to white anglo Saxon women.. The treatment was awful for African American women.. they were told to go away.. No help for them.. But white women needed to be saved.. able to get a clean slate.. crap. Quote:
Me too.. And you have just showed me one of my flaws.. My anger.. My place that is unsorted.. Quote:
Ah.. A poem.. TS Eliot.. The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock I grow old … I grow old … I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled. Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach? I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think that they will sing to me. I have seen them riding seaward on the waves Combing the white hair of the waves blown back When the wind blows the water white and black. We have lingered in the chambers of the sea By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown Till human voices wake us, and we drown. So here is another book I recommend.. TS Eliot poems... Prufrock.. Waste Land.. and Four Quartets Quote:
My daughter has been disturbing me more.. and my anger points the way.. I have a quote from Beattie I am going to type up about anger.. And the lessons from it.. I really was/am unreasonably angry with the adoptee that wrote The Girls that Went Away.. Over the top.. Jackie Last edited by Jackiejdajda : 11-03-2007 at 06:53 AM.
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#10
11-03-2007, 07:15 AM
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books
It is strange that you should start this thread with Robinsmom quote.... and part of her quote is something i have just been wondering about...
Quote:
i have been wondering if being reunited and then crushed was worth it all.... if knowing what was in store for me, would i still have chosen contact? and i think the answer is "yes"... it is a cruel thing to be denied even a picture of your child.... it is not a good way to live, not knowing if your child is dead or alive... and I don't think I hurt MORE than when i initially placed.... pain is pain. many aspects of my relinquishment have been healed... through all this. many parts have been sorted.... new wounds have been created.... new hurts.... she wasn't responsible for the first ones.... but she's responsible for these... i don't know if this is the right place to post... but i am reading a great book.... Quote:
I find this very interesting. i made an adoption plan.... without influence from anyone. Giving birth, I changed my mind. I have told my story for years as being unwilling to relinquish. doing so against my will.... however, the truth of the matter is, I spent 9 months figuring out how NOT to raise this baby.... I was not prepared to parent. I was not prepared to give the baby a home. and i certainly did not have any support from my family.... If they would have allowed me to change my mind... I think i would have realized on my own that it just wasn't possible for me to raise her at that time.... OR I would have become an ambivalent mother.... in all my discovering of the mess of her life... my relinquished daughters pain.... it has always been at the back of my mind that she would have been better off with me.... even when I say "we can't know what would have happened." I can still point to my raised daughters... none of who have the major pain and issues the relinquished daughter does.... and kind of think, "see.... i could have done it" but i know i am the mother i am today, in large part, BECAUSE i relinquished the first... because it motivated me to be the best mother i could be.... i don't know what it would have been like to raise the first... you know? anyhow... just rambling, i guess.... j
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#11
11-03-2007, 07:38 AM
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I love it when this happens.. Quote:
This is where I am lost.. When I tell my story.. I automatically think I am looking for pity.. and shut it down.. Quote:
Yes.. I was not allowed to tell family members.. My sister and I stopped speaking for years.. twice! I know my sister is not ashamed of me.. thank goodness.. She and I have talked a great deal about this.. It was a road into our getting back into a complete (well maybe) knowing of each other. And its weird.. she had been reading the same books in the years we did not speak.. Adult Children of Alcoholics books.. and how to find the true self books.. Quote:
Its about not letting others think for us.. by using negative hurting words.. My husband said that when we were fighting in our early marriage.. when things were terribly difficult.. We were down town and fighting on the street.. and he said that.. I think he was trying to scale my emotional wall.. and I turned and walked away from him and did not forgive for a very long time.. It sat in me.. Its hard to stand on our own.. to make our decisions.. Its hard to turn and face and accept our decisions.. But I swear its easier in the long run.. I believe that when we blame we are not.. doing any healing.. we are concentrating on the blaming.. And we are not.. again Julia Cameron.. The Artist Way.. Standing knee deep in the flow of life.. and paying attention.. Standing in the truth.. Quote:
Those kind of words sends me back into isolation… You are sooo right.. Quote:
Wow.. The role of the hero.. Quote:
Yes.. For me its like being pulled under.. and ‘they’ (whoever they are) are in control again.. My truths.. can get lost in the truth of others.. |