[Chris516]

There is one problem with being 'anti-adoption'. While I totally and, unequivocally agree that, when pressured to give a baby up for adoption, I would not do it. The flipside is, when, one of the biological parents does not the exhibit the behavior to be responsible. While I did not wish to be a 'single-parent', I also, did not want my fiance to be one either. My reasoning for this, is, on several occasions, when my medical problems became prominent, she was not, and refused to be, proactive about my health. She expected me to tell her every single time, instead of noticing signs. I have Depression, Epilepsy, Hydrocephalus and, a brain aneurysm. Since she took that position, I was not going to be made to take sole care of the baby. She was abused by her step-father for 13yrs.(4-17yrs.-old, 1972-85) and, to this day, our relationship is not equal. It is a 24/7 parent-child relationship. Additionally, She is somewhat, emotionally incapable of taking care of herself. I had report our situation to Child Protective Services. We get to see the baby on a monthly basis. I am happy with that. It allows me to love the boy, from afar, without creating any tension between myself and, the adoptive couple. In addition, my fiance is Bi-Polar II. She is making outlandish, illogical and, irresponsible statements constantly. I wasn't going to allow a baby to be subjected to that. Initially, All she talked about was, getting her tubes tied and, that, she never wanted to have children, this being prior to getting pregnant. Well that all changed completely, once she was pregnant and, the baby was born. She did not want me at pre-natal visits yet, she expected me to be supportive. I was not going to expose a baby to the uncontrolled atmosphere, of her, Bi-Polar Disorder.

Christopher

[RiverGal]

Christopher ~ How does your fiancée feel about having the baby removed? I'm confused as to whether or not she wanted to place, or placement was a result of your report to CPS.

~D

[Chris516]

Originally posted by MissngLinkInFL
Christopher ~ How does your fiancée feel about having the baby removed? I'm confused as to whether or not she wanted to place, or placement was a result of your report to CPS.

~D

D, While she did not initiate CPS's involvement, she had said, prior to the pregnancy that, she never wanted to have children. Then, when the baby was taken, she was completely different. She was diagnosed in 1999, with, Bi-Polar II. Here is a link to a description of Bi-Polar Disorder...
http://www.dbsalliance.org/info/bipo...toms:confused:

She does not feel, that, she needs make anymore progress where, the recovery from the abuse, is concerned.

I will be mentioning her behavior, to my therapist when I see him on Wednesday.

[RiverGal]

Chris ~ I have thought long and hard before responding to your post because I don't like to be unkind, but your attitude is awful. You supposedly love this woman, yet you have hurt her in a way far greater than any abuse her step-father could have heaped on her.

She is NOT your "child," she is a woman who carried and birthed a baby...your baby. You betrayed her in the worst possible way, and I don't (for the life of me) know how she can bring herself to even look at you.

You act like the fact she wanted a tubal prior to becoming pregnant renders her incapable of being a mother...well, that's a load of bull. I was on birth control when I got pregnant with my youngest daughter 26 years ago. I'm certainly glad my husband was nothing like you, because my daughter is the joy of my life. Believe me...carrying a baby under your heart for nine months, sharing your blood with that child, feeling it move and kick...all of that has a way of changing a woman's outlook. You could not possibly understand that, as you will never give birth.

Secondly, bipolar is highly treatable...and very common. Many bipolar women are wonderful mothers...in fact, there are a-moms here on the forum who are bipolar. Sounds to me like with your plethora of mental and medical problems, you should realize the advances in medication.

You seem to think this woman is your subordinate...someone who needs to defer to you and tend to your needs above her own...and possibly, above those of a child. You stated that, "She expected me to tell her every single time, instead of noticing signs." when speaking of your illnesses. Why? Why is it that you should not have to tell her when you are having issues? She is not your nurse...nor a psychic.

You have done a really cruel, underhanded thing to her by calling CPS. From someone who is in therapy himself, you sure have no problem trying to analyze her. Perhaps instead of "mentioning her issues to your therapist, you should ask him to help you deal with your own issues of CONTROL.

What doesn't make sense to me is that you mention the child is in foster care, then you mention the adoptive family...so which is it? Foster, or adoption? And how could you possibly think the mom would have any kind feelings toward either you or the family trying to adopt her child? That is ridiculous. All she feels is that, once again, her feelings don't matter.

You need to check yourself. If you are half the person you are putting yourself out to be, then you truly need a lot of therapy.

~D

[michellemartin]

While I totally and, unequivocally agree that, when pressured to give a baby up for adoption, I would not do it.

Above are your own words- is this not what you have done to her? Pressured- even forced her child to be taken from her? I know you say she didnt want a child before hand, but is she angry because of your decision to place and that she wasnt really given a choice? It seems that you made this decision- And had I not been given a choice- Well I'd be pretty angry, too, and I'd probably never be able to forgive my bf if he forced me to place my child by calling CPS. I agree that just because she wanted a tubal before getting pregnant doesnt mean she should have her child taken from her and never be allowed to parent. I'm suprised she is still with you.

Depression and being BiPolar can be worked through with some help. There are lots of different treatment plans for each of these conditions. I am uncertain to even believe some of the conditions you have. A brain aneurysm is not an ongoing condition. A person has one and the blood vessels around the ruptured vessel take over for the one that ruptured. So it isn't continuous- its more like breaking a bone- it heals. I definitely think you should speak to your counselor about YOUR issues. You cannot "fix" someone to be who you want them to be- you can only alter your own perception.

I was not going to expose a baby to the uncontrolled atmosphere, of her, Bi-Polar Disorder.

I agree with MissingLink- it can be easily treated- Agreement with MisingLing again- your girlfriend is not psycic. I need to tell my bf when I'm in a down cycle of my depression (very mild however and not on meds) (and I am a wonderful parent to a 6 yr old despite my depression issues and being diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) Stop treating her like a child and let her take care of herself. Again I agree with MissingLink that you appear to want to control her. It seems as if you are continuing the cycle of abuse she endured from her step-father- even if it is a different type of abuse, the end result is typically an attempt to control another.

MissingLink- I also was unsure how to respond as this post actually upset me very much. I try to not be negative, and well this post just doesnt seem positive at all!

[Chris516]

Originally posted by MissngLinkInFL
Chris ~ I have thought long and hard before responding to your post because I don't like to be unkind, but your attitude is awful. You supposedly love this woman, yet you have hurt her in a way far greater than any abuse her step-father could have heaped on her.

I am glad you thought long and hard. As to your insuation that I have hurt her far more than, any abuse her step-father did to her, that is both, assinine and, tantamount to, justifying what he did to her. I did it for the sake of the safety of the child. Numerous other 'survivors' I know, have told her to 'grow up'.

She is NOT your "child," she is a woman who carried and birthed a baby...your baby. You betrayed her in the worst possible way, and I don't (for the life of me) know how she can bring herself to even look at you.
Bless you for stating that she is not my child. If she were, she wouldn't be allowed to take things so 'willy nilly'.

You act like the fact she wanted a tubal prior to becoming pregnant renders her incapable of being a mother...well, that's a load of bull. I was on birth control when I got pregnant with my youngest daughter 26 years ago. I'm certainly glad my husband was nothing like you, because my daughter is the joy of my life. Believe me...carrying a baby under your heart for nine months, sharing your blood with that child, feeling it move and kick...all of that has a way of changing a woman's outlook. You could not possibly understand that, as you will never give birth.
On this, the fact that, she wanted a tubal ligation does not render her incapable of being a mother. The state of her Bi-Polar Disorder does. While she probably wouldn't have drowned the baby, as did, Andrea Yates drowning her five children. At the same time, Andrea Yates ex-husband(he divorced her), Russell Yates admitted that, he didn't keep an eye on her moods, especially during the pregnancies. Also, I have several major health conditions that, flared up during the pregnancy and, she told me that, she would do nothing for me, medically, unless I asked her to. You can't ask a baby.

Secondly, bipolar is highly treatable...and very common. Many bipolar women are wonderful mothers...in fact, there are a-moms here on the forum who are bipolar. Sounds to me like with your plethora of mental and medical problems, you should realize the advances in medication.
Ditto on BP being highly treatable....as long as the patient is not manipulating the psychiatrist. A very good friend of mine that is, both, a survivor and, has BP, thinks that, my fiance has a lot of growing up to do, with the online conversations they have had. I don't disagree with you on, the advances in both, treatments and meds. They are only as good, as, the BP patient utilizing them. Also, Her therapist and, her social worker have, BOTH, chewed her out for her behavior. When I 'ask' about, her taking her meds, I get chewed out big time so, I keep my mouth shut.

You seem to think this woman is your subordinate...someone who needs to defer to you and tend to your needs above her own...and possibly, above those of a child. You stated that, "She expected me to tell her every single time, instead of noticing signs." when speaking of your illnesses. Why? Why is it that you should not have to tell her when you are having issues? She is not your nurse...nor a psychic.

I agree absolutely, she is not my 'subordinate'. I want an 'equal', not a 'subordinate'. She doesn't 'tend to my needs' because, she doesn't think, she needs to be responsible at all. I have had to do fix problems that, her mother n' step-father never took care of. Signs would be things like an epileptic seizure and/or projectile vomiting. On the latter example, that is a sign that, my shunt is blocked. We both have Hydrocephalus so, that latter example would a sign to watch out for, with both of us. To give you an idea, say for instance, you were bleeding profusely from the arm and, someone was with you. Suppose that person saw what was happening to you and, instead of wrapping your arm in a tourniquet, a proactive reaction, they asked you "What do you want me to do?". Wouldn't you be dumbfounded by the stupidity of that reaction?

You have done a really cruel, underhanded thing to her by calling CPS. From someone who is in therapy himself, you sure have no problem trying to analyze her. Perhaps instead of "mentioning her issues to your therapist, you should ask him to help you deal with your own issues of CONTROL.
I have dealt with that and, her blaming me for all her problems when, I had nothing to do with them. One of the things about people, with BP that, I have read is, they 'project' their problems on to those, closest to them.

What doesn't make sense to me is that you mention the child is in foster care, then you mention the adoptive family...so which is it? Foster, or adoption? And how could you possibly think the mom would have any kind feelings toward either you or the family trying to adopt her child? That is ridiculous. All she feels is that, once again, her feelings don't matter.
I mentioned 'Foster Care', that was my dumb mistake. Her feelings, are predicated by, her recovery and, not handling the BP correctly. As for the adoptive family, they have done nothing wrong. They only have the sad situation of, not being able to biologically have children. Their daughter is also adopted.

You need to check yourself. If you are half the person you are putting yourself out to be, then you truly need a lot of therapy.
Well then, you obviously are not a good judge of, behavior and, what is best for the child.
~D

[dl]

she told me that, she would do nothing for me, medically, unless I asked her to. You can't ask a baby.

Do you feel you are equivalent to a baby and need the same type of care?

[Chris516]

Originally posted by dl
Do you feel you are equivalent to a baby and need the same type of care?

Obviously not, but, when taking care of the one you love, is called for, she refuses to do it, yet, she has no problem 'diagnosing' me, when she is not even a clinician.

[dl]

Are you "even a clinician"? In your posts, you have diagnosed her. Should you also not be taking care of her as "taking care of the one you love"?

[Chris516]

Originally posted by dl
Are you "even a clinician"? In your posts, you have diagnosed her. Should you also not be taking care of her as "taking care of the one you love"?

I am not a 'clinician'. In terms of, her Bi-Polar Disorder, that was diagnosed by a psychiatrist....not me. She even says she has Bi-Polar Disorder.

I have been taking care of her.

1. A major reason for the migraines that, she had been having since she was 18yrs.-old, was due to, her Hydrocephalus. I supported her choice to have the operation since, I have the same condition and, I have had six brain surgeries, all before 9yrs.-old(I am 37, she is 36).

2. While I have not mentioned it here, she recently(about 3-5wks. ago) had surgery to, remove a bunion from her right foot. At first(10/02-07/04), I really struggled with, what should be done, until, she started having pain in that foot. We went to an orthopedic surgeon and, he told her she would need surgery. Once she has fully recovered from this foot surgery, we will have to go through it again, since, the other foot needs the same thing done.

Her mother has always taken the attitude of 'ambivalent ignorance', when it comes to my fiance's healthcare. To this day, her mother still thinks, that, my fiance's step-father, never abused her.

Christopher

[dl]

Did her psychiatrist judge that "she was not emotionally capable of, being a parent" and advise you to call Child Protective Services and have her child taken from her against her will? Bi-Polar disorder is a treatable disease, in many cases controlled by medication, and many Mother's parent successfully even though they have bi-polar disorder. How does her having "a bunion from her right foot" or even a bunion on both feet affect her ability to parent?

[Cheryl62]

Chris:

Just so you know where I'm coming from -- I'm an adoptee, a few years older than you, and while not a birthmother, I am the mother of 4 and stepmother of 2 more. I am frankly too stunned by the tone of your posts to even begin to be able to articulate a full response now.

I did have one question though -- your profile on how you have been touched by adoption says "I gave up my children". How many other children do you have? And who are their mothers, if I've understood correctly that this was your fiance's first child?

By the way - I agree with the other posters that not planning to have a child before it is conceived has little or any correlation to love and parenting abilities after it is born, so I would advise you to drop your argument that her earlier comments about tubal ligation have ANYTHING to do with her feelings now.

I also think you should read some of the posts from birthmothers on this forum to understand the depth of grieving they go through when they WILLINGLY make a decision to place their babies with adoptive couples. Perhaps educating yourself would make you more understanding of the pain your fiance (whom you supposedly love) is feeling now, rather than full of the impatience you express with her understandable grief, anger, and feelings of powerlessness. You sound remarkably clear about your own needs and feelings, and quite willing to pass judgement on her -- but what you've written expresses an astounding lack of understanding of how mothers react to the loss of their children.

One last question -- why are you still with her? Everything you've written sounds like you see her as weak, unloving, and undeserving of you. I haven't been able to find anything in your posts that indicates the slightest concern for her. Perhaps you've explained poorly - or perhaps I've misunderstood -- if so, try again, because I think the other posters shared my interpretation.....

[dl]

One last question -- why are you still with her? Everything you've written sounds like you see her as weak, unloving, and undeserving of you. I haven't been able to find anything in your posts that indicates the slightest concern for her. Perhaps you've explained poorly - or perhaps I've misunderstood -- if so, try again, because I think the other posters shared my interpretation.....

Yes Cheryl62 ~ this poster certainly shares your interpretation.

[RiverGal]

Excellent posts by Shellie, dl and Cheryl...very good questions raised...questions I am anxious to see replies for.

Chris, you state you went so far as to wrestle with the decision for her to have bunion surgery before you supported it. For God's sake...frankly, what she does to her feet is none of your business. But it is making more sense to me how you could rob of her of a baby when she is expected to defer to you about something as personal as her foot pain.

Chris, in order for therapy to be successful, one must be totally honest with their provider. Have you told your therapist the truth about how your relationship is held togther by the fibers of your web of lies and deceit? I'm hoping your therapist is ethical enough to set you straight on the implications of something this crude. If not, perhaps you will listen to some of us here and take a second look at what you are doing.

You may be controlling her now, but one day your lies are going to crop up and bite you in the pants...it won't be a pretty sight. You, who this woman obviously loves and trusts more than anyone else in her world, are the number one betrayer. How can you look at yourself in the mirror each morning, knowing what you have done? I am amazed at your cavilier justification of your behavior.

~D

[michellemartin]

Still shocked over here...

Chris when do you plan to tell your girlfriend the truth and take responsibility for YOUR actions? It seems as if you are continuing the cycle of abuse she was subjected to by her stepfather.

I am also confused by your profile- GIven up my children- So this is not your first? Did you subject the other mother to the same as you are your current girlfriend?

My mom was abused as a child in many ways by her own father and her mother to this day refuses to believe her 7 children. It is not suprising. Many people men and women would rather believe in the good than the bad and it is very hard to accept that someone you care deeply for has hurt someone you also care deeply for. In a sense if she doesnt admit to it happening she can protect herself.

As I mentioned in another thread- where I will no longer be posting about this as Brandy asked us to keep our words here in one spot- you have no reason to diagnose her or to talk to your therapist about her medical problems- Those are her issues and it sounds like she has a therapist of her own to talk to about these things. Now talking about how she makes you feel concerns you. I dont think she's telling you that you cant feel- as you are telling her- but rather to respect her medical privacy.

Step up and take responsibility for your actions. Tell her the truth. Stop making your mom take the blame. Be an adult not a child.