[MeggieC]

Maia~
I'm sorry that your week is going so badly--even from the wording of your post you sounded so sad. I will pray that your week gets better. **hugs**

I have accepted the fact that a) she may never try to locate me. And that's ok. It's her decision. b) If she does find me, I have accepted that she may be furious with me, and I believe that she has every right to. I believe that unless she has walked a mile in my shoes (which I pray she'll never have to), she will not understand. And she will be hurt and confused. And all my reasons will seem like excuses to her--of course I'd never tell her that part of why I gave her up was because the needs of my future children outweighed her needs at that moment. Even I realize that that is harsh and is probably something that she doesn't really need to know. I will tell her, however, that we were both in a bad situation, where I could not, in good conscience, raise her. I will not trash her b-father to her because I won't need to. She'll figure out what a loser he is on her own--as long as she inherited a little bit of my common sense.

But deep in my heart, I honestly believe that I will never see her again. You know how sometimes you just know things, and you don't know how you know them, but you do? That's the feeling I get when I think about Rachel trying to ever find me. I'm not giving up hope, maybe it's just an acceptance of how things might be.

Meggie

[Chris516]

I totally understand, where you are coming from. I had a child put up for adoption because my fiance's behavior very clearly showed that, she was not emotionally capable of, being a parent. Prior to getting pregnant, all she talked about was, getting a tubal ligation. When the baby was taken by Child Protective Services, she was(and still is 1yr. later) angry. She is also angry at me, my mother and, the adoptive couple. While I am trying not to overreact, she keeps talking about the adoption, in one way or another, constantly.

Christopher(Bdad to Nicholas)

[michellemartin]

I hope you are getting the counseling you need together. It doesnt seem like a good relationship if one of you is angry all the time. I know you say she didnt want a child before hand, but is she angry because of your decision to place and that she wasnt really given a choice? It seems (from your other post) that you made this decision- And had I not been given a choice- Well I'd be pretty angry, too, and I'd probably never be able to forgive my bf if he forced me to place my child by calling CPS. Depression and being BiPolar can be worked through with some help. Is she on meds to help with her moods?

[Chris516]

Originally posted by shelliemart
I hope you are getting the counseling you need together. It doesnt seem like a good relationship if one of you is angry all the time. I know you say she didnt want a child before hand, but is she angry because of your decision to place and that she wasnt really given a choice? It seems (from your other post) that you made this decision- And had I not been given a choice- Well I'd be pretty angry, too, and I'd probably never be able to forgive my bf if he forced me to place my child by calling CPS. Depression and being BiPolar can be worked through with some help. Is she on meds to help with her moods?

Well, She denied there were any problems with the relationship during the pregnancy. When I would tell her where a couples counselor was located, she whined and said, she couldn't find it. I found several but, it was the same story every time. We didn't start couples counseling UNTIL after the baby was born. The counselor said he had worked with people that were sexual abuse survivors and, those that were brain injury survivors. I think that was pure BS because, he never held her accountable for her behavior. She has gone so far, as to, 'diagnose' me with ADD, ADHD, Bi-Polar Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, Dependent Personality Disorder, Diabetes and, Hypoglycemia. She does have prescription meds but, I don't think, they are working. I am not allowed to talk to any professional involved with her and, she does not want me talking to........ANYONE, about her. That is tantamount to saying, I can't have any feelings about the things she is doing and, has done to me. As to the call, to CPS, she thinks it is my mother, that made the call and, not me. Also, Since she behaved the way she did, about my medical problems, I wasn't going to let a baby put at risk, with the same thing happening. She doesn't think about other people. In hindsight, she was right about her having children, except, it is because, she still behaves like a child herself.

[RiverGal]

Chris Freud~ At the risk of being banned, I am going to tell you what a mean, nasty thing you have done to another human being...much less one you care about. I don't know what you thought you would accomplish by coming to an adoption forum and spewing your bile about how you lied and hurt your gf...many of us have been through enough of our own pain, and for you to admit how you are intentionally hurting someone is beyond my comprehension.

It sounds to me like she doesn't want you controlling her, and this is your revenge. What kind of a despicable, miserable individual could have such little heart???? This really makes me sick.

~D

[michellemartin]

I think there is a big difference in talking to someone about her problems and talking to someone about how she makes you feel. If you are refering to her problems... NO I dont think you should talk to ANYONE about them. They are her issues and hers alone. Now as to how she makes you feel- that involves you. I dont think its saying you cant feel I think its saying you need to respect her privacy.

I am a very selfish person. I will be the first to admit that. I want what I want, and I'm not afraid to go out and get it. I dont think being selfish is a bad quality. I ALWAYS think of my needs first and the needs of others second. If I dont take care of me, how can I help someone to take care of theirself? Its not your responsibility to help her, and its not hers to take care of you either. We each are soley responsible for our own being. Maybe if the two of you cannot grow together as a couple, and I feel it unlikely she will ever forgive you if she found out the truth, maybe it is time to move on with your life.

After hearing that you have also hidden the fact that you called CPS from her I am outraged. This is something I feel you should tell her. Yes, maybe she would leave you- I would- but if you cant be truthful to her how can you be honest with yourself?

[dl]

I had a child put up for adoption because my fiance's behavior very clearly showed that, she was not emotionally capable of, being a parent. Prior to getting pregnant, all she talked about was, getting a tubal ligation.

Many women practice birth control that once becoming pregnant do become very good Mother's. You speak of her behavior "Prior to getting pregnant". Were there other behaviors after she became pregnant or after she gave birth that motivated you to believe that "she was not emotionally capable of, being a parent"? What are your qualifications to make such a decision?

You feel she is overreacting as she is angry that "the baby was taken by Child Protective Services"? I personally think most Mothers would be angry about that happening against their will and being given no choice. You are "trying not to overreact" because she "keeps talking about the adoption, in one way or another, constantly?" What behavior do you feel would be appropriate for a Mother who had her child taken from her against her will? Simply forget and put it behind her? That's a very outdated, and unrealistic, mindset as many biological Mother's will tell you. You state that the counselor "never held her accountable for her behavior". Are you holding yourself accountable for YOUR behavior? You state that you are not even taking responsibility for your behavior. You're letting your Mother take the blame and be the target of anger. You complain that "She has gone so far, as to, 'diagnose' " you. Have you not also gone so far as to diagnose her? You state "That is tantamount to saying, I can't have any feelings about the things she is doing and, has done to me." while whining that she should not be allowed to have any feelings about the things you are doing and have done to her. You have not even been honest about what you have done to her. You have not admitted that it was YOU that called Child Protective Service. Sounds like a double standard to me.

You state, "Since she behaved the way she did, about my medical problems, I wasn't going to let a baby put at risk, with the same thing happening. She doesn't think about other people." IMO, there is no way to assume that the way she behaved to you, a supposedly mature man, is the same way she would behave to a baby. You state that "she behaves like a child herself". Quoting from one of your posts on another thread, "My reasoning for this, is, on several occasions, when my medical problems became prominent, she was not, and refused to be, proactive about my health. She expected me to tell her every single time, instead of noticing signs." This sounds like you expected her to treat you like a child. With children, parents can't count on them to be aware and tell the parents when they feel something as abnormal. Why would an adult not be able to tell their partner if they were having problems? Is this not behaving "like a child". Most adults realize that they need to be proactive about their own health. I also find it behaving "like a child" to hide behind your Mother ~ to not admit that you called Child Protective Services ~ and instead allow her to be angry at your Mother believing that your Mother made the call. An adult man would admit to their own actions, IMO. Are you covering this up to for some reason in order to maintain a relationship with her? Why? Your posts do not indicate loving feelings for this woman ~ they certainly do not indicate any respect. Why are you still attempting to maintain a relationship with her? She's operating under false pretenses and being lied to. What's your reason? I also find it very odd that you don't seem to express any feelings about your child ~ other than depriving the Mother of the child.

[Chris516]

Originally posted by dl
Many women practice birth control that once becoming pregnant do become very good Mother's. You speak of her behavior "Prior to getting pregnant". Were there other behaviors after she became pregnant or after she gave birth that motivated you to believe that "she was not emotionally capable of, being a parent"? What are your qualifications to make such a decision?
The part about women becoming good mothers, despite having used birth control, is a valid and, justifiable point. As to any behavior during and, after the pregnancy, one day I became really sick and, she coralled someone to, give her some prescribed meds for me to take. I take an anti-convulsant to control my seizures and, the med she almost gave me, would have had, adverse affects, in addition to being illegal. She has threatened suicide on a number of occasions, if she didn't get something she wanted. Back in February, her bank account was almost down to $0 and, I told her that, I refused to pay any rent since, I needed to make sure, we had enough $ by May, to move. We were having to move because, the owner was tearing the property down. I had to have Rent/Deposit and, Moving Expenses. While I did have some $ left in my account, following paying for all that, the reason I did that, is because, after seeing her account, which was joint account at the time(too long and complicated to understand), I didn't want to end up on the street due to her spending habits.

You feel she is overreacting as she is angry that "the baby was taken by Child Protective Services"? I personally think most Mothers would be angry about that happening against their will and being given no choice. You are "trying not to overreact" because she "keeps talking about the adoption, in one way or another, constantly?" What behavior do you feel would be appropriate for a Mother who had her child taken from her against her will? Simply forget and put it behind her? That's a very outdated, and unrealistic, mindset as many biological Mother's will tell you. You state that the counselor "never held her accountable for her behavior". Are you holding yourself accountable for YOUR behavior? You state that you are not even taking responsibility for your behavior. You're letting your Mother take the blame and be the target of anger. You complain that "She has gone so far, as to, 'diagnose' " you. Have you not also gone so far as to diagnose her? You state "That is tantamount to saying, I can't have any feelings about the things she is doing and, has done to me." while whining that she should not be allowed to have any feelings about the things you are doing and have done to her. You have not even been honest about what you have done to her. You have not admitted that it was YOU that called Child Protective Service. Sounds like a double standard to me.
She keeps talking about it, in such a way that, it gives me the feeling, she might try to steal the baby during, one of the monthly visits. To expect, or, even tell, someone to 'forget' is insane. You say that, I exhibit a double-standard. Well, Due to her Bi-Polar she is constantly changing her mind and, I left to wonder, what to belive and, what not to believe. I never said, that, she could not have any feelings.

You state, "Since she behaved the way she did, about my medical problems, I wasn't going to let a baby put at risk, with the same thing happening. She doesn't think about other people." IMO, there is no way to assume that the way she behaved to you, a supposedly mature man, is the same way she would behave to a baby. You state that "she behaves like a child herself". Quoting from one of your posts on another thread, "My reasoning for this, is, on several occasions, when my medical problems became prominent, she was not, and refused to be, proactive about my health. She expected me to tell her every single time, instead of noticing signs." This sounds like you expected her to treat you like a child. With children, parents can't count on them to be aware and tell the parents when they feel something as abnormal. Why would an adult not be able to tell their partner if they were having problems? Is this not behaving "like a child". Most adults realize that they need to be proactive about their own health. I also find it behaving "like a child" to hide behind your Mother ~ to not admit that you called Child Protective Services ~ and instead allow her to be angry at your Mother believing that your Mother made the call. An adult man would admit to their own actions, IMO. Are you covering this up to for some reason in order to maintain a relationship with her? Why? Your posts do not indicate loving feelings for this woman ~ they certainly do not indicate any respect. Why are you still attempting to maintain a relationship with her? She's operating under false pretenses and being lied to. What's your reason? I also find it very odd that you don't seem to express any feelings about your child ~ other than depriving the Mother of the child.

I did not 'expect' her to 'treat' me like a child. I expected her to be proactive about my health. Also, If an individual does not behave proactive about an adult loved one's health, how in the world, can they be expected to be proactive when it comes to a baby's health. I love him with all my heart. I temper that love because, quite frankly, I am scared of 'over-loving' him to the point that, I would never see him again.

Christopher

[dl]

"As to any behavior during and, after the pregnancy, one day I became really sick and, she coralled someone to, give her some prescribed meds for me to take. I take an anti-convulsant to control my seizures and, the med she almost gave me, would have had, adverse affects, in addition to being illegal."

Perhaps I don't really understand. Are you medically incapacitated to the degree that you have no understanding of the medication that you take? But yet you seem to feel that you are capable of judging whether another is capable or not capable of parenting a child? This situation, from your perspective, seems to be only about you, and your medical problems vs. the needs of the Mother and child.

"Back in February, her bank account was almost down to $0 and, I told her that, I refused to pay any rent since, I needed to make sure, we had enough $ by May, to move. We were having to move because, the owner was tearing the property down. I had to have Rent/Deposit and, Moving Expenses. While I did have some $ left in my account, following paying for all that, the reason I did that, is because, after seeing her account, which was joint account at the time(too long and complicated to understand), I didn't want to end up on the street due to her spending habits."

You mention her account, which was a joint account. Then you mention that your own account did have some $ left in it. Did not having to support a child alleviate your financial concerns? Did not having to support a child lessen your chances of "ending up on the streets?

Why is it that you did not address the issue of your letting your Mother take the blame for your call to Child Protective Services? Why is it that you are not admitting to this woman that YOU called Child Protective Services?

Why do you "expect her to be proactive about your health" instead of yourself being proactive about your own health? Do you honestly feel that you were being "proactive about her health" by having her child taken from her? Or was it about your own needs and desires? You state, "If an individual does not behave proactive about an adult loved one's health, how in the world, can they be expected to be proactive when it comes to a baby's health." Could the same also not apply to yourself? If you are not proactive about your own health ~ or her health, the Mother of your child ~ could you be expected to be proactive about a baby's health? Is this really about her limitations or your own? Perhaps I'm missing something but your posts seem to be focusing on your medical problems and your needs vs. the needs of the Mother and the child. Except of course where you posted about the mother's bunnions. I still fail to see the relevance of bunnions affecting her ability to parent.

Did her psychiatrist feel that she was incapable of parenting a child? Or was this only your conclusion?

[BrandyHagz]

Keep it on ONE thread, or I will close them both.

[Chris516]

Originally posted by dl
Perhaps I don't really understand. Are you medically incapacitated to the degree that you have no understanding of the medication that you take? But yet you seem to feel that you are capable of judging whether another is capable or not capable of parenting a child? This situation, from your perspective, seems to be only about you, and your medical problems vs. the needs of the Mother and child. You mention her account, which was a joint account. Then you mention that your own account did have some $ left in it. Did not having to support a child alleviate your financial concerns? Did not having to support a child lessen your chances of "ending up on the streets?
No, It is not a case of not understanding the meds I take. Not having to support a child, did not alleviate my financial concerns.

Why is it that you did not address the issue of your letting your Mother take the blame for your call to Child Protective Services? Why is it that you are not admitting to this woman that YOU called Child Protective Services?
It was pointless because, trying to explain things of any nature to her is, purely pointless so, why should I try.

Why do you "expect her to be proactive about your health" instead of yourself being proactive about your own health? Do you honestly feel that you were being "proactive about her health" by having her child taken from her? Or was it about your own needs and desires? You state, "If an individual does not behave proactive about an adult loved one's health, how in the world, can they be expected to be proactive when it comes to a baby's health." Could the same also not apply to yourself? If you are not proactive about your own health ~ or her health, the Mother of your child ~ could you be expected to be proactive about a baby's health? Is this really about her limitations or your own? Perhaps I'm missing something but your posts seem to be focusing on your medical problems and your needs vs. the needs of the Mother and the child. Except of course where you posted about the mother's bunnions. I still fail to see the relevance of bunnions affecting her ability to parent.
You are obviously missing it. I am always proactive about my health. She is not. I can't be expected to tell her, what needs to be done, if, I am having a seizure or, projectile vomiting. I would be physically unable to tell her. Thankfully, I have not had one of those, in more than a year. When it came to the baby's health or her's, I chose the baby because, the baby couldn't make decisions about their own health. I was only thinking about my own health and, the way she approached it, in respect to the baby. I have always been proactive about her health. The bunions are an example of it. The brain surgery is an example of it.

Did her psychiatrist feel that she was incapable of parenting a child? Or was this only your conclusion?

I don't know, what her psychiatrist felt but, it wouldn't surpise me if, it was the same as her therapist and, social worker.

[michellemartin]

Just so you all know...
I'm keeping all my responces to Chris on his origional thread titled Adoption.

The origional post of this thread was about not regretting our adoption choice, not about someone being forced into adoption. I dont think my negative posts to Chris have any right to be on this thread where origionally a woman was coming to ask for support from us fellow firstmoms out here.

Again for those of you who havent been there, the thread Chris started is titled Adoption.

[michellemartin]

There is another thread now just started also titled adoption so here's the link to the one Chris started Adoption

[MeggieC]

First of all, I can't believe how PETTY everyone on this thread is behaving. Second of all, I am also tired of everyone behaving as though adoption is purely a woman's choice and the father should have no say in it whatsoever. Thirdly, if I'm going to be honest with everyone, I really didn't give my bfather a choice because I felt that he was emotionally incapable of raising a child for various reasons. Why is a bfather not allowed to do the same thing? It's sad that more bfather's don't do this and save a baby from its mother who has no desire to be a parent or ever having wanted to be a parent.

Next, it seems to me that BOTH parents in this situation are emotionally unable to care for a baby and I have to say that giving the child to CPS was probably the best thing FOR THE CHILD. Isn't that what adoption is about? You're trying to do what is best for the child? When you're bank account is down to $0.00, this indicates to me that not only are you emotionally unprepared for a child, but also financially unprepared.

No, Chris, you weren't right in calling CPS without having consulted the mother or at least told her what your plans were. But your lack of reasoning leaves us with little other way to interpret your actions. Was she a bad mother? Was she ignoring or abandonning the child? Or did she have other emotional problems that left her incapable to care for her child? I'm just wondering as I see that there may be valid reasons for your call to CPS. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

As for why your fiancee is angry, since she expressed that she didn't want to have children to begin with, I can only imagine that her anger stems from the fact that she was given no option. You called CPS without her consent and had the child removed. Just as it took two of you to create this child, it was a decision you BOTH should have made unless, as I said before, there were extenuating circumstances that we are unaware of.

Finally, the two of you are WAY too dependent on one another emotionally and probably financially. She will continue to be angry with you and having you around all the time will not make things better. You need to get away from each other. Stop pointing fingers at one another and take responsibility for your own actions. It's not just "her fault" or "your fault", it is the responsibility of both. Take your first step toward independence, admit that you were the one who called CPS (what's she going to do? get angrier?), and leave. Get your stuff and go out to become your own person. She will be fine without you, and you will be fine without her. DO NOT GO RUNNING BACK TO MOMMA! That is not a step towards independence but a step backwards into further dependence.

This doesn't mean that you have to feel guilty or apologize for having called CPS. If you are glad that you made that decision, more power to you. After all, at the end of the day, you're the only one who has to live with your decisions. However, remember that you can make your decisions, but you cannot choose the consequences.

I have to admit, though, that if she REALLY wanted your son back, she would go to CPS and work her tail off to get him back. Are there circumstances that prevent her from doing this? I am not familiar with the mechanisms of CPS as my adoption was private.

I hope you both get your heads on straight and clean your lives up. What a mess!

Now, can we PLEASE get back to what this thread is SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT?! If you want to verbally accost someone, PM them. But leave it out of here. Those of us who are using this forum for healing and cleansing do not appreciate it.
Meggie

[Chris516]

Originally posted by MeggieC
First of all, I can't believe how PETTY everyone on this thread is behaving. Second of all, I am also tired of everyone behaving as though adoption is purely a woman's choice and the father should have no say in it whatsoever. Thirdly, if I'm going to be honest with everyone, I really didn't give my bfather a choice because I felt that he was emotionally incapable of raising a child for various reasons. Why is a bfather not allowed to do the same thing? It's sad that more bfather's don't do this and save a baby from its mother who has no desire to be a parent or ever having wanted to be a parent.
THANKYOU!!!!

Next, it seems to me that BOTH parents in this situation are emotionally unable to care for a baby and I have to say that giving the child to CPS was probably the best thing FOR THE CHILD. Isn't that what adoption is about? You're trying to do what is best for the child? When you're bank account is down to $0.00, this indicates to me that not only are you emotionally unprepared for a child, but also financially unprepared.
While I disagree about, me being 'emotionally incapable', I have a hard enough time, dealing with, BOTH, the residual behavior as a result of her being an abuse survivor(her step-father abused her for 13yrs., 4-17yrs.-old and, the behavior stemming from the Bi-Polar Disorder. Putting a baby into that mix, is pure hell fire.

No, Chris, you weren't right in calling CPS without having consulted the mother or at least told her what your plans were. But your lack of reasoning leaves us with little other way to interpret your actions. Was she a bad mother? Was she ignoring or abandonning the child? Or did she have other emotional problems that left her incapable to care for her child? I'm just wondering as I see that there may be valid reasons for your call to CPS. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.
I repeatedly asked to go to couples counseling with her, during the pregnancy and, it was the same reaction every time. She came up with one reason or another, not to go. CPS was a move, I made because of her refusal to go to couples counseling. Prior to the pregnancy, she had been diagnosed with Bi-Polar Disorder back in 1999 and, is an abuse survivor. Neither one, in an of itself, deems a person incapable of being a parent. It is the extent of recovery from the abuse and, how the Bi-Polar Disorder is monitored. She is constantly exhibiting the behavior of a child, instead of that, of a 36yr.-old woman.

As for why your fiancee is angry, since she expressed that she didn't want to have children to begin with, I can only imagine that her anger stems from the fact that she was given no option. You called CPS without her consent and had the child removed. Just as it took two of you to create this child, it was a decision you BOTH should have made unless, as I said before, there were extenuating circumstances that we are unaware of.
I could never discuss anything with her. She has said countless times that, she could not deal with 'heavy' stuff. I gave up trying to discuss it with her.

Finally, the two of you are WAY too dependent on one another emotionally and probably financially. She will continue to be angry with you and having you around all the time will not make things better. You need to get away from each other. Stop pointing fingers at one another and take responsibility for your own actions. It's not just "her fault" or "your fault", it is the responsibility of both. Take your first step toward independence, admit that you were the one who called CPS (what's she going to do? get angrier?), and leave. Get your stuff and go out to become your own person. She will be fine without you, and you will be fine without her. DO NOT GO RUNNING BACK TO MOMMA! That is not a step towards independence but a step backwards into further dependence.
I could care less, whether she knew or not. I take solace in knowing, I did the best for the child. She will have to move out, not me. I definitely won't go back to my mother, even though, she has tried to convince me to do that numerous times. I like where I live.

This doesn't mean that you have to feel guilty or apologize for having called CPS. If you are glad that you made that decision, more power to you. After all, at the end of the day, you're the only one who has to live with your decisions. However, remember that you can make your decisions, but you cannot choose the consequences.
I like that answer because it is to the point.

I have to admit, though, that if she REALLY wanted your son back, she would go to CPS and work her tail off to get him back. Are there circumstances that prevent her from doing this? I am not familiar with the mechanisms of CPS as my adoption was private.
They wouldn't allow her to keep him because, they have numerous reports from therapy professionals in the city about, her behavior.

I hope you both get your heads on straight and clean your lives up. What a mess!
'Mess' is too subtle a word.

Now, can we PLEASE get back to what this thread is SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT?! If you want to verbally accost someone, PM them. But leave it out of here. Those of us who are using this forum for healing and cleansing do not appreciate it.
Meggie

Thankyou!!!!