[kakuehl]

I was reading through a thread about who is the real mother in adoption and I began to think about the word my: my child, my mother or mom, my dad, etc. Historically both women and children were considered to be property... of the husband or father. I wonder if, without consciously thinking about it, a little of that remains today. My son belongs to me... and I am possessive. I resent anyone implying he is not mine! (Actually both my sons -- placed and raised -- are very much their own persons and would not respond well to being considered my possessions.)

What do you think?

[loveajax]

Kathy, I think "possessive" is one of those words that tends to have a negative connotation, but I have to say I am really possessive of my DD also! I think "possessive" in its positive light means that you have a connection and because of that connection, you take better care. (I think the "bad" connotation of possessiveness is more like "control."). I actually think its bad not to feel "possessive" of your children (adopted, birth or otherwise!), at least when they are young. Now 30something year old guys may disagree!! haha

[kakuehl]

I guess my question is where is the line between possessive and possession!

I just had a thought... the word in Hebrew that means to possess also means to dispossess: so when Israel poessess Canaan, they dispossess the Canaanites. I wonder if there is an element of that when we use the word in adoption... mine means not yours.

[loveajax]

Definitely....(I am hearing DD say, "MINE MINE MINE!" and that was a strong indication that she did not want to share...haha!). I remember talking to DD's birth mom when she was small and I said something like, "she's YOUR daughter too" and I think it made her uncomfortable (like I was trying to "discount" myself?). Very complicated, I guess (as usual!).

[Amandak249]

When I think of the word "possessive" I think of it in two ways.

Possessive, in a negative connotation, I correspond with "controlling"- a possessive mother is one who constantly butts into her children's affairs- long after her constant intervention has become unnecessary. Replace the word possessive with the word controlling and the sentence has the same gist.

Possessive, in a positive light, for me means "protective." A mother bear is possessive, or protective, of her young. The act of being possessive, when it is either perceived as necessary or appreciated by the other person involved, is far more noble than being controlling.

You can be possessive over someone without their being your possession. Few people, at least I would hope, would ever claim that their children were "ONLY their own"- especially in regards to adoption. I think the word "possession-" or " my own" strikes so many nerves in the adoption world because in order for one person to fully "possess" a child- the other must give up their own rights. Legally, that's what adoption is all about. Emotionally, biologically, and historically- the adopted child will forever belong to two worlds- at least in the eyes of the parents and birthparents. I sometimes find it's funny (in a very sad way) when birthparents and adoptive parents get into little spats about who the child "belongs to", as both feel possessive over he or she (though no healthy parent will feel that they possess their child.) It's amusing only because , IMO, neither set of parents really have the right to claim the child. Both can be protective, and possessive in that sense, but the arguments that turn up on these forums rarely have anything to do with who " feels more protective of, or who loves the child more." It all comes down to ownership, in a sense.

It is the child, ultimately, who will make the distinction of whom they will allow to protect, be possessive of, and love them. My only hope is that both parties are deserving.



Perhaps that didn't relate to your question at all. haha

[JustPeachy]

I wonder if there is an element of that when we use the word in adoption... mine means not yours.

I would say so, and not only in the adoption world, but in terms of bio famlies as well. I would much rather look at other human beings in not such limiting ways and rather like the idea of children belonging to the entire community rather than only one set of parents.

[zxczxcasdasd]

I would agree with children as belonging to the community as long as they are not seen as "owned" by the community. They are a part of the community and it is always the responsiblity of the community to care for and protect those who are unable to do so for themselves.



PLEASE NOTE: this post is by KAKUEHL: Heidi, you were still signed in on my laptop on my aol desktop!!!! I haven't used this desktop since you left! The foregoing opinion is NOT expressed by zxczxcasdasd.

[Janeytwo]

this post is by KAKUEHL: Heidi, you were still signed in on my laptop on my aol desktop!!!!

LOL!! And here I thought Heidi had joined us in this excellent discussion!


There's an old saying, "Our children are not our posessions. They are on loan to us from God."

I have never thought of my two raised daughters as "mine". I have always thought of them as their own people and that it is simply my job to stand by them while they grow into their own skins.

As I have often said to them; doctor or ditchdigger I love them just the same.

I'm not sure if that has anything at all to do with having relinquished two children. I would say it has more to do with having been one man's posession and all that that cost me as a child myself.

I have spent my daughter's entire lives preparing for them to leave me and go out in the world; to live their own lives which is really the point in the end - IMO.

As for the term "my". I dunno. I suppose it's how people look at it. Sometime in everyday conversation I will say "Oh my hubby is doing this," or "Oh my youngest is doing that".

I could take the "my" out of it but don't think to.

One thing I think would be interesting it to see if men interpret the word "my" differently than women do.

Fascinating topic Kathy.

Hugs to you guys!

[kakuehl]

Love, as a pastor I speak of my congregation, my God. On my good days, I mean the people and the God I am called to serve. On my not so good days I become possessive of them and don't want anyone else to have a relationship with them; I define who they are and what they do. When I speak of my child, I speak of my responsibilities as that child's mother; responsibilities that change according to my child's age. I do not parent my adult children the same way I did when they were infants or toddlers or teens. I think the challenge becomes for parents to determine what MY role is in my child's life at any given age.

[Janeytwo]

Hey Kathy!

I think the challenge becomes for parents to determine what MY role is in my child's life at any given age

I've often found myself wondering at some other parents I've personally known. They let their little ones rule the roost when they're toddlers and youngsters but then they try to reign those same kids in - add on all sorts of rules and regulations - when the kids reach their teens years.


It seems to me it should be reversed. Our kids should be more "in check" so to speak as little ones but the older they get the more we should let go a little. You know, let them know we're still in charge but keep the lines open; trust them to make choices and stand by them as they make them.

I am remembering when my eldest was 19. By then, she was in college, had her own job, her own money and paid a small rent to me on a monthly basis.

Usually on the weekends she'd stay at friends and would call me to let me know she wasn't coming home. That was cool. She was 19 and responsible for herself. I figured at that point it had become my job to be her mom but from a respectful distance - if you get my drift.

However, she had a friend who was a spoiled brat. I mean, this kid had been handed everything under the sun and spoke to her parents like they were servants. Her parents didn't approve of my methods of making my daughter pay for her car insurance and clothing and having her pay rent. They thought I was a barbarian!!!

(Sorry didn't know this was going to turn into a vent)!! LOL!!!

Anyhoo...most weekends this girl's mother would invariably come pounding on my door at 6:00 a.m. - usually on a Sunday no less - demanding that I tell her where her daughter was. Apparently the kid had stayed out all night again. Now, this kid was a 19 year old college student like my daughter but with a 10:00 curfew!! Good grief!! (A 10:00 curfew for a college student. Yeah THAT'S gonna fly!)

So this happened several times. Finally the last time I said something along the lines of , "Look, it's not my job to keep tabs on your daughter. Please stop coming to my door at all hours demanding that I tell you where she's at because I don't have a friggin clue."

She called me an irresponsible mother with bad priorities for letting my daughter quote/unquote "run all over town".



Stupid woman.

If memory serves I came back with, "My daughter's got top of the line Nikes so it's all right if she runs all over town. She won't get blisters."


Yeah I know. It was a cheap shot but I mean really. When my daughter was 5, 10, 15 even. Okay, I'd better dang well make sure I know what's going on in her life at any given moment. But a 19 year old college educated woman with her own job? I'm going to try and run her life?!!!

Give me a break!!!

Sigh....something tells me there's more parents like that other mother out there than I'd care to think about.

[Amandak249]

Janey- Oh no! Was my birthsister hanging out with your daughter? If not- it's seems we've found her twin.


I agree with you 100%.

[zxczxcasdasd]

haha on "my" post! Sorry I didn't sign out, Kathy! But I totally agree. I haven't digested all the posts yet, but I like the discussion.

I know that a lot of what was hard for me in the beginning was the idea of "mine, not yours" especially with a stepparent adoption in mid-childhood, where every single thing is set up as "you replace her because of her unworthiness." That's all I knew of adoption until I had to face that she is not erased, ever, no matter what a judge or a piece of paper says, and I can never be to him what she is. It's inalterable. We are both what we are forever. But it took a while to conceive of it because the whole process reinforced the possess-dispossess concept that Kathy refers to.

[kakuehl]

Hi, Heidi,
Sorry I didn't notice I was posting as you until I had hit post.

That mine/not yours is what's so hard, I think. While S is D's mom forever, D is, as he always has been, my firstborn. D is one who decides where we fit into his life. Just because he is my firstborn doesn't mean I am entitled to a place in his life. I thank God that he no longer thinks of me as the one who "walked out of his life."

[Bamamom07]

I tell my children that we are adopting, that when the adoption does take place, they'll become "mine" for real forever, and I'll become "theirs" for real forever, and nobody can ever take us apart. They've been through a lot of placements and separation. I don't want them to feel like I think adoption makes them "my" piece of furniture, I hope speaking this way encourages them to develop trust that they have possession of a mom who will belong to them forever. They have been treated like furniture all their lives.

[Janeytwo]

Wow! Great stuff being said here!!

Heidi

I had to face that she is not erased, ever, no matter what a judge or a piece of paper says, and I can never be to him what she is. It's inalterable. We are both what we are forever.

This past year, I've watched your journey with such empathy! I think you're amazing and could write books on how to negotiate the term "aparent/stepparent" and all that comes with those. Your love for your sons is obvious in every line you post. (((( Heidi )))).

And you are right. You are forever. Maybe all of us who've touched a child's life with love and kindness are forever. Like the teacher I had in 3rd grade who was so nice to me; who sat with me while I struggled with math and encouraged me through my tears and frustration. Mrs. Meyers. I'll never forget her; I'll never forget her name. Or Mrs. Lafayette across the street who made me and my siblings caramel apples for Halloween and taught my brother's how to throw a mean curveball. I'll never forgot her either.


Kakuehl

D is one who decides where we fit into his life.

So true of all our adult children isn't it? Sigh...there was a time when I set the boundaries for my eldest daughter. Now she sets them for me. Oooo...it's tough isn't it? Watching from the sidelines as our children's lives unfold? Waiting for them to invite us in? Still...there's nothing as uplifting as watching them live their lives for themselves. Soon now, my youngest will be on her way. And while I will stand at the door encouraging her to go out into the world, I will also be hugging her...holding on for dear life.

The parents' path. Not an easy one to tread.

Bamamom07

I hope speaking this way encourages them to develop trust that they have possession of a mom who will belong to them forever. They have been treated like furniture all their lives.

(((( Bamamom & kids )))) All God's peace to you and yours.