[Jackiejdajda]

RavenSong

And then a really weird thing happened ~ I suddenly understood what it means to use the anger as a map to guide me, instead of acting out the anger (as I've usually done in the past.) It's showing me some things in my life that I have to clean up, have to look at, have to sort.

And its hard work.. but it is worth it..
All the pain not looked at..

Just today I read a post written by a man that was relinquished and is triggered by his partner that is a birthmom in a not so good reunion with her bdaughter..

I wrote to him.. from my Codependents Guide to the Twelve Steps.. Melody Beattie..

page 21..

Step One gives us permission to relax, stop controlling, deal with our fear, and take care of ourselves..


Crazymakers that make us crazy or angry.. need to be looked at..

Yes.. we learn..

Jackie

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by Jackiejdajda

I wrote to him.. from my Codependents Guide to the Twelve Steps.. Melody Beattie..

page 21..

Step One gives us permission to relax, stop controlling, deal with our fear, and take care of ourselves..


Crazymakers that make us crazy or angry.. need to be looked at..

Yes.. we learn..

Jackie

I guess one of my fears about admitting I'm not in control of other people, that I don't need to control anybody else, is if I don't control things, who will? And I look at this sentence that I just wrote, and I so plainly see the absurdity of it.

When you grow up in a home where none of the adults are in control, it's scary as heck... And you learn real fast that by controlling things, you feel safer. But then it really comes back to bite you in the end.

I cannot believe that I'm almost 54 years old, and still learning new stuff every day... Thank God, Goddess, Higher Power, Universe, Cosmos ~~ it's kind of a relief not to feel that I have to control stuff and people that I really never had any control over in the first place. Does that make any sense??

[Janeytwo]

Hey Guys!

Back from work is me! :-)

I was musing on anger and I wanted to toss this out there....

For me, anger was a mask; a safe one. I had problems relating to girls friends growing up and to my family because anger was one of my issues in my youth!! LOL!

I had a problem not expressing my anger. I would front on people - no matter how many opponents I faced. I would throw things at people....I was viciously loyal to friends and visciously "against" enemies.

Anger was a drug; a way to feel in control.

Behind it though? Behind it lay fear....no....terror.

A nameless abject fear that consumed me within. Fear of what I'd witnessed in my younger life. Fear. If I stopped being a bad-a** long enough, I could taste it welling up in my throat like acid. I could feel it oozing out of my pores like sweat.

And the only way to stop it was to be fearless on the outside so that no one, most especially me, would figure out how truly frightened I was within.

So I can totally relate to Raven and Jackie in the acceptance of lack of control. Control may be the ultimate illusion in this life. Yet I cling to it whenever possible so that there can be order amidst my chaos.

Which brings me to a point about God and all that we've been discussing with him.....

I think I posted this before (or was I talking to someone IM)? Hmmmmm........ I am old and can't remember....

:-)

But anyway, there's this story in the book of Genesis (at least I think it's that book). In the story God and the devil are walking along the road and they come across these pebbles scattered on the ground in front of them. God looks at the pebbles and remarks on how wonderful the pebbles are just strewn about like that.

And the devil says, "Here. Let me organize them for you."

I think of that story often because so many times in my life I've tried to make sense of the various chaos instead of just remarking on it and accepting it as part of living. So many times I've driven myself crazying trying to make everything perfect.

Once at Christmas I decided to wrap presents using all manner of ribbons and bows and silk flowers - all color coordinated and shiny and glorious. I worked for hours wrapping each package until each one looked like a display worthy of the MOMA.

I took my preciously-wrapped packages to a family Christmas party where one of my 2 year old newphews promptly jumped up and down on them and destroyed the wrapping!

LOL!!!

At the time I was devastated but looking back I wish I would've enjoyed watching that little guy, eyes twinkling as he danced on the pretty pretty boxes, instead of going into the backyard to have a hissy fit about people ruining all my hard work.

Sigh.......Oh I am glad that Shiney White Janey has found a bit of tarnish to paint herself with. :-)

Thanks for listening,

Janey

[quantum]

Hiya everyone. I've been away for a few days, a heck of a lot to catch up on here! and I really need a nap.

A weird thing happened while I was gone (well a few weird things really). I had thought that where I wanted to go with my 'art' was to work towards being an internationally known quilter and teacher and to teach all over the place getting my trips paid for and so on. My theory was that my family could follow with me for the weekend and also see the world.
Well first we decided to cancel a trip sort of like this to Stockholm, money was just too tight to justify the cost, so I'm going alone. Which is ok. But I am a little sad about losing the vacation aspect.
Then I met two American teachers who travel the world (Libby Lehman and Carol Taylor), both lovely ladies, BUT they do this 'dream' I had...and are home about 1/3 of the year. It's not something I want to do! I guess I need to trust in the Creator to show me the path that will fit my creative as well as emotional needs. I WANT to be here for my kids as they are growing. Being gone so often means I would sacrifice that...

Sorry, I need to take a nap! Thanks for listening.

[hollyhunter]

First of all, welcome back quantum. Glad your back.

Jackie,
About the Mustang, it was me threw in that bit, Janey just said "Muscle car". That was kinda weird about the significance of that Mustang in your story. Also, I found my dream house in the country last week. I got a real estate guy coming out tomorrow to put my house up for sale in hopes of getting it. I have had some disappointments to deal with recently and I hate to give into pessimism.

Janey,
I don't remember much about genesis.Read the entire Bible a long time ago but after 5 or 6 pages of "so-n-so begot so-n-so" I sort of got bored with that one. Cool story about the pebbles though. It says to me that we need to just let go, not control things to our own specifications. It also says that what we think of as perfect and beautiful is not at all what God thinks is perfect and beautiful.

One more thing, anyone got an idea what to do with the left over anger that tends to hang around past its usefulness? I mean, you go off and forget about it eventually and then one day something reminds you and there it still is! One more thing to put on the list, forgiveness. I'm ok with forgiveness as long as I know the wrong doer is sorry but when they aren't, or just don't know or care they hurt you its hard.

[SWGAgirl]

Hope you moms don't mind an adoptee butting into this discussion. I don't have this book- but I'm working on getting it. So far I've been to 3 bookstores and they were all out of the book. I thought to myself....... it was that dang Adoption Forum's fault- there's been a run on the book!! LOL But I'll get it soon.

I've been reading this discussion with great interest, and I think you all are helping me. Anger at my b-mom's inability to let me into her life and her still keeping me a secret after 5 years had been getting the best of me recently.

I wanted to "get back at her" by doing something like calling my brother and sisters or aunts, or sending pictures of me and my family to the siblings or something like that. (But I didn't b/c I promised her I wouldn't.)

But then I started thinking about love and forgiveness....and grace. Because "revenge" doesn't end anyone's pain, heal people or reconcile relationships- but love and grace can and does. It's love and forgiveness over "justice".

Now if I choose this route to try to accept, forgive and continue to love my mom......I know it probably won't make her change......but I will have changed and I will be able to have peace with the situation.

That's not easy to do.............but it can be done. (However, it will be hard work.)

I recently finished a book called "If Grace is True" (Why God Will Save Every Person) by Philip Gulley and James Mulholland. It had ALOT of these concepts in it, and it was a very powerful and comforting book for me.

Hollyhunter-good question about left over anger. I think that anger is like those nasty leftovers most of us have in our fridge. You go in there, take it out, look at it smell it, and realize it stinks.......so you throw it down the disposal.........or you just stick it back in the fridge. It's up to us.

LIZ

[quantum]

Welcome Liz!

I tend to think of this as a 'cool people' thread, not a birth/first mother thread or an adoptee thread or a-parent thread or whatever. So welcome to the cool people ;-)

Anger ANGER whoo I've got that one good. I also am ok at forgiving (mostly) but letting go...not something I've learned.

Here's a lovely sentiment I got...when I was pregnant with one of my daughters (I think my youngest) my dear sweet lovely father said 'I hope it's a boy who makes your life difficult' (as in not sleeping etc etc). How nice is that? And here's the kicker...if I get UPSET! Well, c'mon, can't you take a joke?
Apparently the base of this is that I was a HORRIBLE baby who was never happy blah blah blah. Of course, how could I, an infant, be miserable on purpose? Did they ever stop to think that maybe the problem wasn't me the problem was how they were parenting? Maybe I needed more than to be thrown into a crib alone and told to sleep...maybe I needed to co-sleep.

Sorry, this just hit me yesterday when thinking about anger. :-)
Maybe I should bring it up the next time my dad says 'Oh and she was a terrible baby' I should say 'Hmm, maybe my needs weren't being met'

Wonder how that would go over? :-D

[hollyhunter]

Yeah, I hope this thread keeps going as people, reguardless of their circumstances, just trying to see the bigger picture and walk away having benefited from the experience. Give more ground to healing, ya know? I want to define myself as me first, acknowlege I lost something, of course, but it isn't all that I am. Once someone asked someone on the chat if she was a birthmom and she replies, "yes, and more". I hang onto that.

Liz,
The comment about leftovers, loved it! I have been thinking of anger in those terms sort of vaguely but you really put it in words that made me laugh. Good not to take ourselves so seriously. As far as wanting people to change, you'r right, we can't change them, we can only change ourselves. Your mom has an "image" she wants to present. Maybe like me, she needed to go be "someone else" after she lost you, then got wrapped up in her pretending. She wants to be someone who don't make mistakes.We all make "mistakes". She is only hiding the truth from herself, a bigger mistake. She has closed herself off from the love that your being might have presented her as she continues denying her heart. About forgiveness, letting go is another way to say "I forgive". Throw out the leftovers! We don't have to excuse the person that caused us pain but we do let go of the pain/anger if we can. Don't let your mom's response fool you, God meant you to be here, like one of those pebbles that the devil tries to rearrange.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by Janeytwo

For me, anger was a mask; a safe one.

I had a problem not expressing my anger. I would front on people - no matter how many opponents I faced. I would throw things at people....I was viciously loyal to friends and visciously "against" enemies.

Anger was a drug; a way to feel in control.

Behind it though? Behind it lay fear....no....terror.

Janey, we sure sound a lot alike in a lot of ways... It's always been easier for me to become frustrated and angry over small things, over rejections, over self-perceived slights, over hurts... I, too, was that type of loyal friend in childhood who would face the bullies down who were picking on the smaller kids or on my friends. And I was also the type of kid who took on a dare, especially if it was a double dare. I got physically injured pretty badly a couple times from playing "chicken" in the middle of the road against older kids on bicycles. I was the one who refused to flinch and move out of the way... I stood there and let a kid twice my age run into me with his bike. Fearless, foolish, and scared to death underneath it all.

The strange thing I find, though, is that the real issues that deserve my fury, my righteous anger are the ones I don't deal with, the ones I bury deep inside of me. And those are the ones that scare the hell out of me, that I'm afraid to face head-on. Those are the ones I'm having trouble with now.

[hollyhunter]

Oh, quantum tell your dad next time it isn't a joke if no one is laughing.

[hollyhunter]

We avoid the anger we feel may consume us I think. We don't realize it can consume us from the inside out.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by hollyhunter

We avoid the anger we feel may consume us I think. We don't realize it can consume us from the inside out.

Holly, this is what I've come face-to-face with this past week or so. It is all so darn scary, isn't it? This anger business... If I keep it buried and silenced within myself, it will consume me. But the other day when I let some of it surface, I was absolutely terrified...I felt it would consume me, would blow me to smithereens... Anger feels like a double-edged knife to me sometimes...

[Jackiejdajda]

RavenSong

I guess one of my fears about admitting I'm not in control of other people, that I don't need to control anybody else, is if I don't control things, who will? And I look at this sentence that I just wrote, and I so plainly see the absurdity of it.

From Melody Beattie.. from Codependents Guide to the Twelve Steps..

Page 22..


...."I hate that I can't control... I hate being vulnerable and
helpless. I don't like feeling uncomfortable or being in emotional
pain. I get sick having to detach and surrender. But the love affair
with this step comes in when I admit the truth.. I am powerless over
much in my life, and when I try to have power where I have none, I get
crazy. I can't control others, no matter how much I want to, no
matter how much better I think I know what's right for them.


I can't control what others do, think, or feel, whether or how they
choose to interact with me, whether or when they choose to grow and
change, and whether or when they choose to recover from their
addictions.


Sometimes I can't control myself.


I'm powerless over the backlog of feelings and negative beliefs I've
accumulated. I'm powerless over my own and others people's addictions,
including addictions to alcohol and misery.. I can't control my
children or other people's children.. I'm powerless over results,
life, circumstances, events. I can't control the course of
relationships.. I can't control timing..


God, I wish I could control timing..


But I can't..


..............further down the page..


When I try to control people, I make them and myself crazy. When I try
to control addictions, the addictions control me. When I try to
control what others think of me, I turn into a puppet on strings.
Controlling makes me and others crazy. It puts me under the control
of whatever I'm trying to influence. I lose myself. I lose touch with
myself.


And other people get angry with me. and tend to back off..


When I try to control situations and circumstances, I set up blocks
to events moving forward.. When I spend time and energy trying to have
power when I have none, I lose my ability to live my own life..



you wrote.. “is if I don't control things, who will?”


Thinking I have power when I have none.. key..
Understanding that trying to have that power just keeps us running in place and distracted..
Thinking of them and not ourselves.. doing them.. and not ourselves..

What Julia Cameron does not want us to do.. because you don’t do the creative when you are into someone else..

When you grow up in a home where none of the adults are in control, it's scary as heck... And you learn real fast that by controlling things, you feel safer. But then it really comes back to bite you in the end.

That’s codependency.. taking care of others at the cost of yourself..
Being vigilant..
Making sure..

I cannot believe that I'm almost 54 years old, and still learning new stuff every day... Thank God, Goddess, Higher Power, Universe, Cosmos ~~ it's kind of a relief not to feel that I have to control stuff and people that I really never had any control over in the first place. Does that make any sense??

Yes.. that’s it..
That’s the key..

That’s the letting go.. and knowing that you can just throw up your hands and take care of you..

All you can do..


Jackie

[Jackiejdajda]

Janeytwo

I had a problem not expressing my anger. I would front on people - no matter how many opponents I faced. I would throw things at people....I was viciously loyal to friends and visciously "against" enemies.

And that is acting anger out.. not upon..
Not finding the way away from the anger the way to resolve it.. sort it..

So one can be calm.. and together and a good person to live with..

I think of that story often because so many times in my life I've tried to make sense of the various chaos instead of just remarking on it and accepting it as part of living. So many times I've driven myself crazying trying to make everything perfect.

When I got pregnant all those years ago.. I knew it was meant to be.. I forgot this for years but I knew at that time..
And by trying to blame others when I first got into reunion and was angry.. I found I forgot that this was meant to be and I was powerless over it.. any of it..

When I dropped a lot of acid.. yes folks I dropped acid.. I would say.. “The absence of knowledge is knowledge.”

I did not really understand this.. but I knew it to be true..
Its about the letting go..


Jackie

[Jackiejdajda]

quantum

Then I met two American teachers who travel the world (Libby Lehman and Carol Taylor), both lovely ladies, BUT they do this 'dream' I had...and are home about 1/3 of the year. It's not something I want to do! I guess I need to trust in the Creator to show me the path that will fit my creative as well as emotional needs. I WANT to be here for my kids as they are growing. Being gone so often means I would sacrifice that...

The morning pages..
A talk with ourselves.. when we are half asleep..
Thats core communication..

I hope you enjoyed your nap.. I love my naps..

Yesterday hubby and I drove to Toronto and back..
and I had a nap in the evening.. one and a half hours..
Ohhhh glory..

Jackie