[julie23]

this post is mainly for birthmothers who have also raised children....

as i have worked through my "birthmother issues" over the last several years.... i have become really aware of how deeply placing my first daughter affected how i raised the subsequent three....

an adoptive mother posted something about how she was loving her daughter like she was losing her... i think they called it "anticipatory grief"...

anyhow... that struck a chord with me... i've raised my three girls in the shadow of anticipatory grief... i'm sure of it....

I have pushed myself to be the best mom... do everything "perfect"... prove to the world that I am capable of mothering...

i've always been completely freaked out by any sign of distress in my kids... they have all been to the ER for minor bumps and scrapes... i think i've actually taken two of them at different times for sleeping too much....

I think i've lived with a really intense fear of losing them... the whole time I've had them....

honestly, some of this is probably a really good thing... I think my kids have benefitted alot from all the books I have read.. and classes I have taken... I don't think i was well prepared to parent, and i think i've been able to learn a lot of healthy stuff....

also... they do have GREAT lives... their bedrooms are always absolutely adorable.... they have my attention almost any time they want it... i volunteer in their classrooms... we do super duper fun things all the time... from vacations to day trips....

and I think all of that comes from having relinquished... and being completely focused on that never happening again...

and now... here is the crux of this post... my oldest (kept) daughter has recently become the proud new mama of a baby kitten... as she is 17, we agreed to this kitty if she took 100% care of.... both physically and financially...

we adopted this kitty from the infirmary at the humane society... so she has had some health issues... and alot of trips to the vet...

as my daughter has been doing most of this... she has been experiencing alot of the same anxiety and fears in regards to her "baby"... that she has observed in me all these years... I had once shared with her my thoughts about "anticipatory grief"... and I have shared alot with her about the whole birthmother thing... and after one particularly difficult vet experience, she came home and told me "In my psychology class (college level) we learned that children sense their parents fears and have the same ones." (Or something like that.)

she went on to say, that she thinks she is experiencing anticipatory grief with her kitten.... the same panic, fear, and protectiveness she has seen in me..

of course, a kitten is not a baby.... but i have always thought that my reaction and subsequent parenting choices were simply my own... that my daughters would eventually grow up and have their own children, and not experience the same type of fears that I had, because they would not have placed a baby for adoption....

and now I am wondering, if that is just not true.. that simply because they grew up with me "on edge"... being too protective..... too fearful of losing them... if they are going to absorb that and it will become a part of their parenting...

have any of you experienced parenting choices that you attribute to relinquishing.... and now see your grown children making similar parenting decisions?????

j

[keds]

J, I can tell you that I have made many decisions with my "raised" daughters that many have questioned but make perfect sense since reunion. It's funny as my oldest raised child wants 6 kids and the youngest wants to have 4 - I have 3 (including my bson). They have both said that my dedication and, as you said, over-protective nature as they grew up made them realize that family is most important. I don't think they are
"neurotic" as I can be about where their kids are and what they are doing but they will all make wonderful parents as I didn't have the opportunity do to so with my bson.

[Jackiejdajda]

Oh Julie you always pose (reflect on) some interesting issues..

I think I totally messed my second and third born up.. Naomi had dreams about me leaving her.. she dates male adoptees and has just found a new one.. I think she feels a ‘familiar’ with them..

I sometimes think I am such a failure in my parenting.. or lack of it.. but then I stand back and see that I am still hanging in with all my crappy bits.. And darn it I am with them.. I make sure that when their world falls apart.. I am there to make sure they are okay.. and this is sometimes at the cost of myself.. and hubby..

I know how important family is.. I know..

I work at it.. and if I am over the top in my working at it.. so be it.. I can only do my best.. I can only be who I am..

I got pregnant when I wasn’t supposed to get pregnant.. something happened and I was into it.. and I did the best I could and I followed the rules and I kept my mouth and heart shut..
And I think that was the toxic bit.. that my kids had to suffer from.. the holding back of emotions.. the secrets..

I said to Naomi once.. “I am sorry you have had such hard times in your life.”… I got stoned a lot in the early years..
She said.. “Mom I have something to write about when I write my book.”

Keeping our babies was not an option for some of us.. and society was the thing that deemed it so..
Our kids are part of that society.. that generation working on itself..
We learn and we progress.. and we sort and understand..

All we can do.. I think..

Jackie

[julie23]

J, I can tell you that I have made many decisions with my "raised" daughters that many have questioned but make perfect sense since reunion.

I remember once when my oldest (kept) daughter was about 4 months old... my stepmother-in-law was holding her and she began to cry.... i stopped what i was doing and went to take my baby into my arms.... and the woman turned away from me... moving the baby out of my reach and said "you can't always pick her up when cries."... i moved around her and took my baby... the gut reaction i had when she moved the baby away from me was pretty scary....

I am pretty much a non-confrontational person... pretty much go along with the program.... perfect victim, actually.... but when it comes to any of my three kids, i put up with nothing... nothing... no one stands in between me and kids... and God forbid I think you may be trying to hurt one of them....

I think that i always had some kind of sense that i was over the top on this.... that i was a little more extreme than most mothers.... but when i really began processing all of my birthmother stuff... then it all began to make sense...

it's very very sad that I wasn't able to understand it from the beginning... i think birthmothers today have a lot more resources than we had... well, like Jackie said... we were told to shut up about it... and get on with life...

I don't think they are "neurotic" as I can be about where their kids are and what they are doing but they will all make wonderful parents as I didn't have the opportunity do to so with my bson.

mine are still young... so I hope that they can manage to be less neurotic than I am.... for me, it's still that shaky panic.... that gut ripping fear.... even though I am aware of it all now, it still happens... on my way home the other day, there was an ambulance and police at the freeway exit for my house... since my oldest is driving now, my heart just crashes.... until i can see that it is not her car... when she is out driving, and i see an ambulance, i will call her ... and make sure she is fine... and a part of me knows it's crazy.... and neurotic... but I can't stand the thought of anything happening to any of them....

Jackie... our favorite topic, eh? Failure....

I sometimes think I am such a failure in my parenting.. or lack of it.. but then I stand back and see that I am still hanging in with all my crappy bits.. And darn it I am with them..

I was at the ortho with the kids the other day... and I picked up an oprah mag. An article caught my eye... it was titled "The Woman Who Fell to Earth To fail is divine-- Martha Beck has, repeatedly, and she has nothing to show for it except freedom, serenity, and a surefire recipe for success...."

I was so caught up with this article... that i went and bought the magazine... (Oprah, December, 2007)

the author talks about a "The Optional Agony of Defeat"... and she tells the story of a friend who breeds dogs... and her dog, Ewok, didn't place at the dog show... and the her friend was quite mournful... but Ewok... the dog... was perfectly happy... He didn't seem to be affected at all by losing at the dog show...

and she says "Laura's desolation stemmed not from what actually happened at the dog show but from her ideas about success and failures. Lacking such concepts, Ewok was simply enjoying life. Going to dog shows and winning, going to dog shows and losing, going to the park and scavenging -- from Ewok's perspective it was all good."

She goes on to higher stakes... careers... and raising children...

"But when it comes to things we think really matter, like creating a career or raising children, we hunker down, tighten up, and absolutely refuse to fail. Anyway, that's the theory. The reality is, we are going to fail. Then we make things worse by refusing to accept this."

boy... does that describe exactly what i did when I gave birth to my second daughter... i hunkered down... I absolutely refused to fail... I suppose I viewed relinquishing the first as a result of my inadequacy... i think i thought those around me thought i was inadequate.. or why would they have thought the baby would be better off away from me... so.... with number 2... i was determined not to fail her in any way.... i was determined to prove myself not only adequate... but a spectacular mom.....

She goes on to talk about Tammy...

"Tammy came to me distraught because her 17 year old son, Jason -- her perfect son, whom she'd raised with perfect love, perfectly following every known rule of perfect motherood -- had been arrested for public intoxication."

"I've failed," Tammy sobbed. "I've failed Jason; I've failed myself!"

"Yup," I said. "You've got that right."

"Tammy stared at me as though I'd slapped her. Clearly, that was not my line. I shrugged. "you've failed a million times, and you've succeeded a million times. Welcome to parenthood. Do you know any mothers who never fail their kids?"

she goes on to tell her to be real with her son... "Every moment you're real with him, you're succeeding as a mother. Every moment you lose yourself by trying to be perfect, you're failing. And the moment you accept that you're failing, you're succeeding again."

"You're telling me to accept failure as a mother?"

"Whenever you fail," I said. "Got any other options?"

"Well, no... but accept failure? As a mother? I can't."

"Sure you can," I said. "Try this: Think about the fact that you failed to control Jason. Notice how you're all scrunched up, thinking, OH, NO!!"

Tammy nodded.

"Okay, now unscrunch, and instead of saying, "Oh, no! say 'Oh, well... '"

I beamed at Tammy. She waited for me to go on. I didn't.

Tammy laughed. "I can't believe this, " She said... "I came here thinking you could tell me how to fix my son and the best advice you've got is, 'Oh, well'?"

"You're right." I said. "I've totally failed you." I took a deep breath, and relaxed. "Oh, well..."

"Tammy looked at me for another long minute. Then she said, "Just your saying that makes me trust you." This is the magic of accepting that you've done your very best but failed. Own your failure openly, publicly, with genuine regret but absolutely no shame, and you'll reap a harvest of forgiveness, trust, respect, and connection -- the things you thought you'd get by succeeding. Ironic, isn't it?"

hhhmmm.. no shame... owning failure without shame... a hard thing to ask, i think of birthmothers... we are kind of steeped in shame...

"I owe my ability to accept maternal failure to my son Adam. Though I bred young, never smoked or drank, ate right, and all that, Adam showed up with an extra chromosom e, mentally retarded. Ooops. From the word GO, I'd failed to make him a successful student, athelete, rocket scientist. In my mind, nothing could compensate for such massive failures.

This was when I discovered that the bigger the pereceived problem, the better it delivers failure's great gift: freedom from attachment to ideas about success. A lucky person escapes her enemies. But a really lucky person (as the poet Rumi puts it) "slips into a house to escape enemies, and opens the door to the other world."

This can happen in tiny ways and huge ones.... Accepting that I'd failed to create a "normal" life for my child blasted away much bigger assumptions, bone-deep beliefs like "Successful mothers have smart children" and "My kids should never fail."

This hurt like a ............, but when the rubble cleared, I found myself in a world where all judgements of success and failure are arbitrary and insignificant, as ridiculous (no offense) as the American Kennel Club's definition of the "Perfect" poodle. Without judgements, it's obvious that joy is available in every moment -- and never in anything else.

I can see that Tammy gets this. Jason's rebellion becomes a gift as failure does for Tammy what I've seen it do for so many others: soften, mellow, calm enrich, embolden. The poet Antonio Machado expressed it this way:

Last night as I was sleeping
I dreamt -- marvelous error! --
that I had a beehive
here inside my heart.
And the gold bees
were making white combs
and sweet honey
from my old failures.

I can't say I look forward to to the failures that await me. But they'll be along in no time, so I feel lucky to know what to do when each one arrives. It will work for you, too. Unscrunch. Exhale. Let go of "Oh, no!" and embrace "Oh, well..." Then, whatever door opens, walk through it.

i now believe that i failed my first daughter in the only parenting decision i made in regards to her... i failed... I am working on unscrunching... I am working on "Oh, well"

j

[kune]

think that i always had some kind of sense that i was over the top on this.... that i was a little more extreme than most mothers

Or maybe we had a past sense of failure...something we measured ourselves with. We knew what we did was "motherly" wrong and were/are constantly on the lookout not to repeat it or let anyone know we fell so low . But we will fall ....and we will fail.

BUT...(ahah) After reading the wonderful post above I know what to do. Say.... "Oh well"....learn and move on.

Ann

[julie23]

Or maybe we had a past sense of failure...something we measured ourselves with. We knew what we did was "motherly" wrong and were/are constantly on the lookout not to repeat it or let anyone know we fell so low . But we will fall ....and we will fail.

was it a "past sense of failure"... ann? or is that part of our bottom line... simply living with a true sense of failure... a present sense of failure... when it comes to placing a baby...

and how does a mother living with this sense of failure, day in and day out.... withstand the inevitable failures of parenting...

as i have worked on all this junk.... i had to reevaluate what i consider "success"... and what I consider "failure"

once upon a time.... success was having "happy, well adjusted children".... when my poor oldest daughter displayed any emotion other than "happy happy"... i immediately would strive to "fix" her... to make her happy... to brush off her sadness... her disappointments...

because if she were ever sad, angry or disappointed... then I was failing....

I don't measure it that way anymore... being sad, angry, disappointed... unhappy.... is part of being human... it is part of life... and i am not failing my children if they feel these things...

in fact, I am failing them if i do not allow them to feel these things.... to name it... to feel it.... and to work through it...

once upon a time... i viewed myself as successful based on the "success" of my children... and to a certain extent, i still do... mainly because I have a profound believe that parents have great power to influence their children.... but i no longer view "perfect" children as "success"....

my two youngest children, will benefit the most from my journey into finally dealing with relinquishing.... and the consequences of that choice....

my oldest is already 17... and pretty much "done"... fortunately, at this point, she seems to be no worse for the wear... and every day that she laughs with me... that she hugs me... that she shares her life with me.... every day that she tells me she loves me... that is what success is... it's not perfection... it's when a relationship develops with mutual respect, love, and kindness.. when we temper ourselves with compassion... mercy and grace... when we forgive each other... and laugh about the mistakes...

(but... as a side note... she is tremendously successful by the worlds standards as well... lol!! And I am waaay too proud of her...!!!!)

julie

[kune]

I found this on another thread and really want to share it with you. If I can read it and believe in it, maybe I can soften the "fall and fail".

You do not need to be loved, not at the cost of yourself.
The single relationship truly central and crucial in a life is
the relationship to the self. It is rewarding to find someone
whom you love, but it is essential to love yourself. It is
quickening to recognize that someone is a good and decent
human being, but it is indispensable to view yourself as
acceptable as well.
It is a delight to discover people who are worthy of respect and admiration and love,
but it is vital to believe yourself deserving of these things.
For you cannot live in someone else. You cannot find yourself in someone
else. You cannot be given a life by someone else. Of all the
people you will know in a lifetime, you are the only one
you will never leave nor lose. To the question of your life,you are the only answer.
To the problems of your life, you are the only solution

Ann

[julie23]

thanks for sharing that ann... when my reunion fell apart... one of the many things the afather wrote in an awful letter to me was that my daughter still felt "unfulfilled" after meeting me and my daughters... and was wanting to meet my sister (and her NFL playing husband, of course) to continue pursuing fulfillment... I was very sad to read this... it's a perfect example of how they raised her.... instead of looking inside herself... or looking to God for fulfillment... they have taught her to look to the world... to look to things... none of which can ever satisfy the soul....

j

[julie23]

i think that placing my daughter for adoption was a life event that literally rewired my brain... i think it changed me in a physically profound way... like, my DNA.... like permanently altered...

i don't know if it was PTSD... I don't know if it was grief... I don't know if was loss...

I do know... that i became a different person... i don't mean just my perceptions changed... or my attitudes shifted... i don't mean a surface change.... i mean a fundamental change...

When my brother was alive, he struggled with a chronic illness... his illness and eventual death certainly changed my perceptions... changed my attitudes... I experienced something (living with a chronically ill loved one)... that i had never experienced before... and i learned many things... i learned a deep compassion for those battling cancer... i gained empathy for other caregivers... I believe my character gained depth... i grew as a human being because of this experience...

but it did not change ME... it did not change who I am ... or my perception of myself... or who I could become...

relinquishing did.

relinquishing changed everything about me.

i am only now becoming aware of all the different ways it rewired my brain....

i am different from a woman who has never relinquished a baby...

you could say that i am different from a person who has never cared for a chronically ill person... but i don't think that is true... i think all people have the capacity to change their perceptions... to gain empathy... though any life circumstance that forces them to stretch... to grow...

relinquishing did something different...

relinquishing changed the essence of me.

in my journey to work through all the effects of relinquishing... I am discovering myself...

I am finding the woman that was lost....

I am finding myself....

j

[Robinsmom]

J,
Great thread. Hits a place deep in my heart. I can so relate to how you are feeling. I agree with you on the part about being changed, as I feel that way too. I have spent a lifetime raising children, hoping with each one, I will find the part of me that was lost. I was the best mother I could be, and I started young, 17, to be exact. I went and did everything I could to prove to the world that there was no mother out there, that could compare with me. I think in my mind, I was competing with the amother who was raising my birthdaughter. I was fearful, and guarded with my children. I watched every move that they made, and in doing this I have raised some of the clingiest children alive. My 30 year old daughter, calls me daily to ask help questions about herself and her children. My 27 year old daughter, is a mess, and could not find a job, so I gave her one. My son, is fearful of going off to college next fall, as he does not want to leave me. Thats just the first 3, I have 3 more, who are still young and do need my constant care. When i was raising them, I had no idea how much damage I was doing. I thought I was doing everything right. Now as I look back, I was doing everything right for me, maybe not for them. They were to me, a balm, to heal my soul. By letting them be this, I made myself the most important thing in their lives. Now they don't know how to let go, and I can't let go. It is crazy. To think that it all was started by one decision made by a 15 year old, who did not know what she was doing. 32 years, and 6 children have not been able to break this cycle. My question is, how do I stop, before I make the last 3 as needy as the first. How do we get back to the girls we were supposed to be.
Colleen

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by kune

But we will fall ....and we will fail.

I wake up every day and wonder what small thing I will do to fail them. The poster is right. It is a part of life. My parenting is far from perfect, but the important things are amply covered.

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by Robinsmom

J,
By letting them be this, I made myself the most important thing in their lives. Now they don't know how to let go, and I can't let go. It is crazy. To think that it all was started by one decision made by a 15 year old, who did not know what she was doing. 32 years, and 6 children have not been able to break this cycle. My question is, how do I stop, before I make the last 3 as needy as the first. How do we get back to the girls we were supposed to be.
Colleen

Go to parenting classes, get some counseling, read books. It is possible.

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by julie23

i think that placing my daughter for adoption was a life event that literally rewired my brain... i think it changed me in a physically profound way... like, my DNA.... like permanently altered...
j

How old were you at the time you relinquished? Being young can be one factor. As adolescents (anywhere from 12 - 25) our brains are experiencing amazing amounts of new neural activity... comperable to that of an infant. We are learning new things all the time and those lessons are being wired into our brains. It is no wonder that our experiences with loss and trauma deeply effect us years later.

I do beliee it is possible to "re-wire" ourselves and our reactions. Good therapy can help with that.

[Jackiejdajda]

Julie quoted

“But a really lucky person (as the poet Rumi puts it) "slips into a house to escape enemies, and opens the door to the other world."”

i now believe that i failed my first daughter in the only parenting decision i made in regards to her... i failed... I am working on unscrunching... I am working on "Oh, well"

I have not read the rest of this thread yet.. and was not on yesterday.. but Julie when I read your post I thought of this..(I have not finished my dishes and have not made lunch yet.) (hmmmm failure?)


Sooooo.... from The Vein of Gold.. Julia Cameron

From The Kingdom of Story..

Page 46

It is my belief that the stories we choose to tell and cherish about ourselves are the true stories, and the road map to the real lantern-hearted self. Until we do the work of excavating, claiming, and owing our own life stories, we run the very real risk of seeing ourselves, describing ourselves, and proscribing ourselves as others see fit. We go along with their plot lines for what is our life story. This is both dangerous and damaging. How often have you known someone to accept limitations that to your eyes are illusory? How cheered are you when someone………..has the charity and courage to become larger than their circumstances would suggest?

We must learn to deconstruct the negative story lines that hamper our growth.


And what Cameron has a person do in this book is look for the ‘pings’ when we write our lives down.. the places where the black holes lie..
She calls them ‘cups’ and or gold.. she says to mine them..

We find a place like when I gave birth to bson and felt total shame.. and write about it.. We write down how we felt at that moment.. how horrible it all was.. and then we look at it from our now eyes.. and really see what happened.. see where the negativity came from/comes from..
See where the shame spiral starts..
That unconscious shame spiral.. Not known about.. shame spiral.

Sort it with your adult eyes.. and then it seems to become ‘laid to rest’..

Jackie

[Jackiejdajda]

kune wrote

Or maybe we had a past sense of failure...something we measured ourselves with. We knew what we did was "motherly" wrong and were/are constantly on the lookout not to repeat it or let anyone know we fell so low .

And then I look at the woman that gave her baby up because she knew she could not parent..
The judgments of others on this woman..

If we can turn our heads around and know that what was motherly wrong.. was motherly right in some situations..

Jackie