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#76
01-14-2008, 10:16 AM
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Kim,
Thanks for that reality check...I think sometimes I am so prepared to defend myself at every turn, I look for signs were they are not...you are right, I have to watch and listen...LS even warned me that I shouldn't be scared by what I read on here...that when she first started the reunion journey, (almost a year before she made contact) that she, too, poured over these forums and boards and got so worked up, she almost chickened out...and now she barely even browses them... and she assured me that she doesn't have ill feelings about her experience and that she always felt loved by me...so I'm mostly reassured that all will continue to go well. I was just wondering outloud how Julie's daughter first started showing that she was in it for some waroped sense of retribution... I have such a deep rooted desire to be on the defensive and a tendancy to over analyze every situation...I'm like this with my son at home...he thinks I'm too panicky and paranoid...Generational effect? hmmmmmm....Giving up LS was not the first awful thing in my life, neither was it the last...I'm not even sure if it was the most significant...but it was the longest effecting event...I do know that I have always felt the need to measure up against super mom's to show that I was capable of raising a child...and doing it well (though I'm not always sure that I did more good than harm with my son) At times it has been an exhausting competition...I've oftened held my head in my hands and cried when I realized I was perhaps OVER mothering him and never could understand what was compelling me to have such high expectations of myself...I never allowed anyone to offer excuses for me...always had to have it "together"...gah! If only I had realized then that I was reacting to my own sense of unworthiness... But alas, we cannot change the past...I will persevere to make the relationships I have with my son and now with LS the healthiest I am capable of, and learn to accept my limitations... :P
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Last edited by LindaSusansMom : 01-14-2008 at 10:26 AM. 
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#77
01-14-2008, 10:20 AM
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Good post, Kim...
Nice post, Kim. I have to agree. Sometimes I think we would fare better by not reading anything at all. Just be compassionate human beings and active listeners. If you want to know what is behind a behavior, why not just ask? Gently, lovingly, and with an open mind.
While books, groups, other people's stories and the like can provide some insight, nothing can replace honest communication between the individuals involved. It's almost like watching a horror movie before we go to bed... and expecting a peaceful night's sleep. Where books have helped me is when what I read is directed toward my situation, and I am able to determine if the information fits. The information from books is less helpful if it is directed to someone else, someone I want to understand. Not being "in their head" makes it very difficult to determine if the information fits that person. Probably more accurate to engage that person in a discussion and find out where they are coming from -- from their own thoughts, words and deeds. But, doing so also takes courage. We have to learn to listen and accept the response to our inquiry -- not to become defensive, psychoanalytical, judgmental, offended, or accusatory. But rather listen to and really hear the response. It's more personal...more relevant... more truth-filled. Ask. Listen. Learn. The one book that I found helpful -- "The Girls Who Went Away" -- spoke to *some* of *my* experience. The historical aspect shed light, the stories of others showed me that I was not alone. You can read the book, but if you want to know *my* story, you must ask me. And then listen. What I have learned from these forums is that the stories cover a full spectrum, and that my story may fall anywhere in that spectrum, or it may even extend beyond the spectral limits as I have come to understand them. I have learned that many things are possible, and some things are more probable than others. But it is not about probability and statistics -- it is about the relationships in my life, and what better source to go to for understanding than those who are directly involved. It amazes me what can be accomplished by simple, honest and direct communication. Books are to be read. Life is to be lived. Peace, Susan Last edited by SuddenlySusan : 01-14-2008 at 10:22 AM.
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#78
01-14-2008, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
What I got from boards, email lists, group support, was things to check out, things to possibly expect, things to find out about and how to adjust too or take care of. Things I would have never dreamed of. Yes it can be scary. But if you don't know something can happen, don't react in the right way. Then you stand to lose before you begin. Genetic sexual attaction, the biggest scariest thing, though it wasn't an issue for me and son. I did meet a bmom who took herself and her bson straight to threapy. When she notice both she and he were reacting in a way that could lead them down a dangerous path. That scared her. She said that if she hadn't read about it in a book she might not have noticed when those feelings came up. Going into reunion and expecting everything to be "normal" can ruin a relationship before it starts. Many bmom's do need threapy of some kind. Even just talking about the past. Or acutally learning to deal with the past. For those of us who never dealt with the event when it happened. We need to look at the pain, slap it in the face and lean to deal. I am grateful for all the things I learned and even the harder things that were in a chat room. Angry adoptees who almost hated their bmom's before they even knew the circumstances. Talk about scary. For a bmom searching to even consider that her child will never speak to her or hate her, hurts so much. But being prepared, knowing how to understand, how to accept, how to be a mom when you aren't really expected to be one. To not be surprised and without resources, That is priceless.
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Teri picture is me & bson 3 months after reunion
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#79
01-14-2008, 11:03 AM
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I agree, Teri, that preparation is not only valid, but even crucial. I asked my son to read "The Girls Who Went Away" but I also provided notes in the margins so that he would know what applied and what did not. He was not left wondering if what he was reading was my story. I provided that supplement. I think the problems start arising when we read things and then start wondering, "What if..."
I see knowledge and preparation as part of the "spectrum" but I also think it vital that we not expect our journey to be that which we read about, but simply to acknowledge that possibilities exist. Somehow we must find the balance between knowledge of possibilities and the fear that what we read will become what we live. For the record, I love books and I love reading them. Thanks, Teri.  Peace, Susan
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#80
01-14-2008, 11:38 AM
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Use the forums to get strength
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I've been concerned with a couple of posts I've seen that appear to have had a strong reaction to people's bad experiences in reunion. I would encourage those who 'read' into every experience any possibility of their own reunion going that way, to try and see the way that each person deals with it, the terrific support & strength they get here and in some cases (and I include myself here) the way they emerge out the other side, stronger and more able. Such support is invaluable. Yes you can find extremes of reunion, but when you follow the journey, the enlightenment is amazing. In fact all aspects of adoption are pretty much covered, and surely that has to be a good thing? Isn't to be forewarned, to be forearmed? For example, I had never heard of a RAD child until I joined these forums. If I had met a RAD child, I would have possibly concluded that the parent was at fault and had the same 'uninformed' opinion as most outside the experience seem to. Getting on the 'Special needs' boards has been a real education IMO and just because there are examples there of children with severe attachment disorder, doesn't mean a potential adoptive mother needs to hijack her own prospects for adopting by thinking "oh my *** look at this, forget it". But if she continues to read about the 'tricks' that social services do play at times on foster parents to get difficult children in care, the legal obstacles that have been overcome, the enormous efforts to get children care in that particular State, etc etc, its more than informative. Its first hand experience. The same applies to reunion. Its never a given that anyone's reunion is going to involve the extremes, and we can all be encouraged by those who post who are having good reunions, but isn't it best to be informed so that one can gauge carefully as one goes along and KNOW that there is someone here to catch you if you feel out of your depth in reunion (and I mean 'collective you') here on these boards. So yes, for anyone joining the forums - dont frighten yourself to death about possible directions reunion can take. Take on board the scenarios and you will be able to gauge (as others do) how successful you are at any given point in time, or what further help you may need to cope with not only reunion with son/daughter but your own feelings and depth charging that are sure to come. We are all unique and so is every reunion, so use the forums to get the best of both worlds and see the strength, kindness, understanding that can be yours, from others that have been through very similar situations. Just a few thoughts of concern for those that may have been put off from using the forums for fear of absorbing every experience as possibly their own.
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 Just when I was getting used to yesterday, along came today
Last edited by Jannyroo : 01-14-2008 at 11:41 AM.
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#81
01-15-2008, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
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Just when I was getting used to yesterday, along came today
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#82
01-15-2008, 05:28 AM
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I watched Dr Phil yesterday and it was way over the top in exploitation and emotions that were difficult..
But.. I got a thought about this topic generational effects.. after giving a baby up.. The show was about a woman that was angry IMO with her son.. (not relinquished or adopted) she engaged in a terrible banter with him.. saying awful things.. Dr Phil got his wife on the stage and she held the young mans hand.. he was a teen.. high school age.. She told the woman that she has never said a harsh word to her sons.. She has never every set out to deliberately hurt them.. etc.. Clinging to/loving to distraction.. our kids (kept) after we have relinquished may be a good thing.. showing them love no matter what.. may not be a negative thing for them.. if held up against a woman that was over the top in her inability to cope with raising a teenage boy.. Just some thoughts.. Wanted to share.. Jackie Last edited by Jackiejdajda : 01-15-2008 at 05:31 AM.
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#83
01-15-2008, 05:52 AM
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Julie, i have been reading this thread and i wanted to say two things . . .thanks for posting the Oprah article because i have been struggling with an issue relating to that (career failure . . . or now rephrased as "career rejection" on my part). That article really helped put my situation into persective.
The comment that the Adad wrote to you. I have to say something about that because it is the most insensitive, phony, hateful thing an adoptive parent could say to a birthmother (and I have my doubts if your bchild really said/thought any of that). That one comment alone made me think instantly that the adad is a fake, a phony, insecure and raised his child to care about his version of success. I hope and pray that she sees that he is warped and not looking out for her best interest. You, on the other hand, seem like the kind of birth mom I wish I had.
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Cradle Baby Closed Illinois adoptee Adoptive parent Found bmom 8/06 - currently in reunion Adoption-related blog at www.myspace.com/lynard1210
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#84
01-15-2008, 05:54 AM
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quick note
hi guys...
my daughters adad told me flat out from the very beginning that my daughter hated me. this was without ever knowing me... only knowing whatever awful things her parents told her about her genes... And she lived her very young life in a way that indicated she had huge anger issues.... hurt.... pain... hate.... rage... but as her and her parents will tell you.. no adoption issues... whatever. other than what could pass for "teenage stuff"... she didn't really act out a whole lot during our reunion... just the regular inconsiderate stuff you could say "any" teenager would do... i now believe she simply spent that whole three years trying to figure out where she could hurt me the most... and once she figured it out, she did it... and she had her aparents support with the whole thing..... thus my first comment... i do believe that if she ever came back into our lives it would be with the intent to hurt me... i don't think she's capable of anything else... and my fear is, she would use my kids to do that.... not all adoptions go well... i think new adoptive parents can learn a lot from story.... the what not to do part.... reunions, though... are all so different.... are there common threads? sure... can we learn a few obvious things of what "not" to do... probably... on both sides... but we do have to be careful not to project other peoples experiences into our own... and as Janny so nicely pointed out... even in my failed reunion... wow... the journey... truly a time of enlightenment and growth for me.... i am definitely stronger.... wiser..... more compassionate.... even though it didn't turn out well on the surface... in terms of her and I.... for me, i would do it all over again.... just to learn... and grow.... and begin to find myself again.... yes. jackie... i saw that dr. phil... i watched it with my lovely teenage daughter.... loving them to distraction just may not be the worst thing in the world... i remember that being one of original goals of parenting... that my kids would know they are loved... that they would know that in their gut... in the very fiber of their being ... that there would never be a single doubt about my love for them.... and that just can't be all bad... j
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#85
01-15-2008, 05:59 AM
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posting at the same time!
Lynard.. we must have posted together...
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my relinquished daughter is young... and manipulative... i am pretty sure she said all that... most likely to manipulate her parents (who would have been easy to manipulate!).... to get them to do what she wanted... and THAT wasn't the only awful thing the man said... and you are right, it is crazy... that Oprah article is AMAZING.. isn't it? it helps with perspective, i think.... i mean, suggesting that we create our own perspective... thanks, julie
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#86
01-15-2008, 06:22 AM
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Julie,
It's refreshing to hear someone talk about the positive side of a negative experience...I feel the same way about just about every awful thing I have experienced in my life...not many ppl can come thru something like that and appreciate the opportunity for personal growth... I got one of those fw: fw: fw: emails one day that had a story about determining what kind of person you want to be, and it demonstrated the point by discussing the effects of putting an egg, a carrot and a coffee bean into hot water. The egg started out soft inside, and became hard from the experience, the carrot, that was hard to begin with became soft, But the coffee, refusing to give in to the perils of the rough experience, took a look around and decided to change it's environment...yada, yada, yada...I would definietely label you a coffee bean... How old was your daughter when you first had contact? You mentioned typical teen behavior. I'm almost glad LS was already nearing her 21st bday when she contacted me. She wanted to wait until she felt emotionally mature enough to handle the possibility that I would not want the reunion. I'm so proud of myself for quickly responding to her, even though I was terrified about what it could mean for my son. He's still on the fence about getting to know her. Just this morning, I was trying to encourage him to ask her for a ride home from school. She had offered up the idea that if ever need be, she would be happy to help out...anyway, his reply was that he didn't need a ride home...I tried to explain that it wasn't a matter of needing a ride, but the idea was to let her feel needed and to give them an opportunity to spend a little time together, without me present...as a way to ease into things...his reply was that they have nothing in common...I raised my eyebrow and said "Nothing?" (I mean, obviously, they came from the same womb, share DNA, are nearly cut from the same cloth their personalities are so similar!) and well, he just kind of shrugged his shoulders and went back to getting ready for school and that was that... Sigh... LSM
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#87
01-15-2008, 01:31 PM
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Getting siblings on the same page is difficult...and it certainly makes it more difficult for you. You love them both so naturally would like to see them interacting. My eldest kept son had difficulty accepting his newfound brother. He steadfastly refused to make any gesture or action to encourage bson into the family. I spent almost 2 years throwing little tit-bits into the conversations I had with kept son. Things like "I was talking to ***** today and he has been ........." etc etc. Making him aware that they both shared the same interests and there was something to build a brotherly connection on. When he began to show an interest, I waited for him to ask whether I had seen or heard from bson, and eventually they started texting which led on to time spent together. After 5 years it's very easy and amicable. There's still a sort of reservation there - for both - but they are like cousins. Connected but not quite.
One thing I did learn over those 5 years was that my relationship with bson (and kept son) is not reliant on them being friends. As adults, it's their work and so if it works or fails, it doesn't impact on what either son and I have. Hope some of that helps you. Ann
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Dont spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; but remember that what you now have was once among the things only hoped for.
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#88
01-15-2008, 10:10 PM
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Thanks for the post, Ann. I admit to feeling a bit anxious about how my sons will connect. They only just met F2F in October, and the son I raised is by nature very aloof. I think it will just take some time... thanks again. Good to know that things are better for your sons.
Peace, Susan
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#89
01-17-2008, 05:41 AM
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Dr Art posted here once that the relinquished sons and daughters need to 'pattern themselves' with the family they grow up in..
My interpretation of his words.. It was an 'aha' moment for me.. He was telling an adoptee that she needed to sort her home life before heading into sorting herself with her birthfamily.. again my interpretation of his words and he may not have been saying that at all.. But bottom line to me is you need to get it right before setting out to find more.. And the sad part is when what we see in an adoptive family is wrong.. and we do not know what to do.. and I think our kids know better than we do on how to cope.. They are more detached in some ways.. (always some of them.. never all) My kids are distant with my bson.. Its almost like there is an avoidance there.. and it teaches me that there are two worlds here.. two separate families.. each with their own dynamics.. and sometimes the bridge can not be gapped.. But we each need to keep out dignity.. we each need to keep our 'self' and not buckle under for the good of all.. I can not and will not buckle under for the sake of peace or whatever..I did that when I relinquished and I will no longer do that.. If something is not right I will say it.. and I will honor the ones that have backed off or call a spade a spade.. and I will hear them when their pain is more than they can bear.. This stuff is difficult.. beyond difficult.. Jackie Last edited by Jackiejdajda : 01-17-2008 at 05:44 AM.
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#90
01-17-2008, 03:11 PM
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beyond difficult
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This in turn led to my son getting increasingly frustrated with his adoptive family, as they are unable to see the real self, they only see the false self he presents. The sad thing is, as you say, he doesn't know what to do. All he knows is that he fights them tooth and nail demanding respect, and demanding them to identify who he truly is. All they see is the surface response to life by taking drugs, alcohol, not seemingly able to recognise that deep wound of abandonment. As such, he has never found a landing place of peace, leaving him with nothing for the 'relationship' that he started with me nearly 2 years ago. I acquiese to the fact that his relationship with his amom is one that is always going to be at loggerheads, its the only way to keep my sanity. Which means, that he and I are going nowhere. I'm ok with that now. I know where he is in the universe, what he's chosen to do with his life and what kind of boy he has turned out to be (for now). I now no longer feel an overwhelming need to impress him into my life as if my life depended on it, I am now at peace, but as you say, and I totally agree with you... Quote:
I have spoken to his amom, laid a foundation for better things, she is ordering 'Coming Home to Self' - whether she is the kind of person that can take it on board and act on it, I don't know. Maybe one day in the future he may find out who he truly is, but I don't see it on the horizon yet for some years to come. But you know, as you say, its beyond difficult, and I have a life to fulfil.
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