[agathaj]

Jennyroo, hang in there. I have had xmas by myself and totally enjoyed it. I turned off the TV so I wasn't reminded about all that happy families stuff and indulged myself in good books and a long shower a walk on the beach and the food I enjoy eating. I slept and relaxed. It is just another day. But the ideal is to enjoy everyday, although it's been very difficult to do when I have dragged the bmother angst and hopesless and depression around with me for years and I am ready to bin that old birthmother hand bag. What I think my bdaughter feels to some extent is that I abandoned her and therefore I will always kind of 'owe' her. I will have to make it up to her but she can treate me badly whenever she pleases because of what I did to her. Until she forgives me or comes to a place of acceptance then I don't think we will ever have a friendship. It sucks and there is nothing I can do to fix it - hence the hopelessness. I have been told by adoptees to continue to send the bday cards and xmas cards because one day it may change. But how long could that take? I feel a card is not a big deal but close to her birthday it feels like a huge burden. You are not alone. I do know how you feel. It is so hard to put it into words, to tell other people, I feel only other bmothers understand.

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by agathaj

Jennyroo, hang in there. I have had xmas by myself and totally enjoyed it. I turned off the TV so I wasn't reminded about all that happy families stuff and indulged myself in good books and a long shower a walk on the beach and the food I enjoy eating. I slept and relaxed. It is just another day.

What I think my bdaughter feels to some extent is that I abandoned her and therefore I will always kind of 'owe' her. I will have to make it up to her but she can treat me badly whenever she pleases because of what I did to her.

Until she forgives me or comes to a place of acceptance then I don't think we will ever have a friendship. It sucks and there is nothing I can do to fix it - hence the hopelessness. I have been told by adoptees to continue to send the bday cards and xmas cards because one day it may change. But how long could that take?

Hi Agathaj,

I have taken on board what you have said and have a good book, some knitting, a rug making kit and my beloved pets to be with and I'm about to get some food tomorrow (24th) as well as pop into my friends bungalow that I'm house sitting (well kind of, I just pop in, to make sure its ok etc). I'm not really into TV like that and most of the films that are featured this season I have on DVD, so I will watch them when I want to fall asleep with my cat on my tummy! (LOL)

I have to say with how your daughter is behaving that a definite NO you don't have to take this punishment **** from your daughter. I have read Verriers "coming home to self' and she says to adoptees that are going on in this fashion, say after a year, KNOCK IT OFF, enough!!! and I say wholeheartedlly ENOUGH!!

Agathaj, no way do we have to go around for the rest of our lives being punished this way for something that was pretty much taken out of our hands some decades - read DECADES ago - not years. If parole is given to murderers who have served their sentence, then why is not true for us? who did the ultimate act and paid for it emotionally for the rest of our lives (I'm sure you can hear the anger in my post, but I'm livid as to how 'knocked about' you sound and what I've been going through for over 20 months and I have to say... NO MORE).

There is no way I can endorse your 'she can treat me how she likes' because that is not true, and if you need building up, I"m sure other bmoms on this thread would say the same and any counselling will help you to forgive yourself as they helped me 13 years ago. You do not deserve to be punished in this way and if your daughter cannot get her head around that, then like my son, she needs time to be left alone to get her head around it. We are NOT here as emotional punchbags. If we allow ourselves to be so, then in my thoughts, that means counselling is needed to help us overcome our own shattered view of ourselves.

Fortunately for me, I have had such counselling, I have been that punchbag and now I am withdrawing it. NO MORE beating me up son, thankyou very much.

There IS something you can do to help your daughter move on, the first thing I would encourage you to do is read Verriers 'Coming home to self' as she points out, yes there is anger, emotions and things that have to come out, but there is also peace and forgiveness and moving on. You don't need to contribute to any aura of bitterness by allowing her to treat you like this. Enough is enough and I am leaving my son for at least a few months to get his head around his emotions and what he wants from this 'relationship'. If I don't get the strength and follow through with this, I am going to be on the receiving end of his emotions that rule his roost, but I'm determined not to let them rule mine.

If he doesn't seek and get help, that is not my fault, as everyone knows on this forum that has followed my story, this lad has not exactly treated me well, but I bore it like the self deprecating person I have been, but like any battered woman, I've reached the end of my tether and now I have to say again... thats enough. I would encourage you to do the same. Don't let what could be a great relationship with your daughter be overtaken by her ruling the roost. If you had have raised her, I would hope that you wouldn't allow this behaviour. We have to set boundaries and if they cross them, they have to learn that privileges are taken away.

With my son, I had to take away the privilege of telephone conversations. IN our case it took 7 weeks before he came into line and started showing more respect. Now that he's dipped into drugs a couple of times, we are back to square one, but I refuse to allow him to manipulate me and give me a guilt trip because he feels fit to 'beat me up' emotionally (whether he is aware of it or not).

From my point of view, I sent cards and I sent small appropriate gifts of affection and things that meant something to my son. I have now realised that this has fed his attitude of superiority and he needs an introduction to attitude renewal. That will only come about by withdrawing. Giving cards and gifts is only appropriate in a mature reciprocating relationship, not in a one way unrequited one. I would encourage you to draw back a bit. Doing so is not rejecting your daughter, but teaching her some valuable lessons in life.

I feel your pain and I'm furious that you are suffering so. If my fury gives you strength, then with all my heart, I hope it gives you something to try (and others have and it has worked) and stand back and see the results.

fondest wishes and (((hugs)))
Janny

[keds]

Hi Janny! I have to tell you that I may be right beside you in the "withdrawal mode". My daughters are home for Christmas and haven't exactly been the pillar of support. It's all about "them" which is a complete reversal of their usual personalities. I guess living with others have made them "selfish"? Anyway, not a card or letter from anyone so I'm feeling a little low and the only ones that are really "in tune" are the cat and dog (why animals "know" what is going on is still a mystery to me). I think most of my issues arise from the fact that I always put others first (my eldest daughter tells me that all the time) so when others are unconcerned it irritates me. I intend on heading to church first thing Christmas morning and being thankful for health, happiness for all my loved ones and then coming home and pretty much keeping to myself. No wonder so many people hate the holidays. I think it reminds us of the shortcomings of ourselves and others. It's the expectations that are out of whack not the people. We expect so much of everyone when there is only so much each person has to give. I never make new year's resolutions but this year I'm thinking that I should decide to expect nothing of anyone and I'll be presently surprised. All the best and I'll PM you on the 25th. Best wishes to all!

[agathaj]

Hi Jannyroo, I bet you'll love indulging yourself over xmas - anyway there's plenty of people to talk to online. Thanks for the comments. I am going to get Nancy's latest book on your recommendation - can't hurt to read it. I have read PW and was blown away with it. Merry xmas and kiss the cat for me xoxoxox

[kakuehl]

Hi Janny,

I doubt it will make you feel better, but no one has a perfect reunion. As in any relationship, there are ups and downs, periods of feeling very close and less close.

I've said it in other threads I know, but I consider myself blessed to have reunited with D when he was at a good place in his life. Had he found me when he registered on A.com, by his admission, the relationship would not have developed as easily. At the same time, the last two years we spent part of Christmas together -- the first year, they came here for Christmas Eve, last year we went to their house for Christmas Day. This year... they said don't buy us presents. While I know in my head that it's as they say, they've just had the 3rd child in under 3 years are strapped and can't reciprocate, it still hearts the heart.

When I was an adolescent and a young adult, I was incredibly aware of my mother's "failures" as a parent and person and how they had negatively affected my life. I have always refused to let my mother take "credit" for my mistakes even as I recognise why I make the decisions I do. We can't "fix" our children - those placed for adoption or otherwise - we can't ever make it up to them. As always, we can't change someone else, only ourselves (and we know how difficult that is!).

Janny, have a blessed day tomorrow. I will be thinking of you.

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by kakuehl

Hi Janny, I doubt it will make you feel better, but no one has a perfect reunion. As in any relationship, there are ups and downs, periods of feeling very close and less close.

Janny, have a blessed day tomorrow. I will be thinking of you.

Yes you are right. It doesn't help that no-one has a perfect reunion. I'm feeling a bit cross at the minute, so i apologise if I appear to 'bite' but I don't think the relationship in reunion is normal and can't be compared to normal ups and downs of relationships. There is nothing normal about reunion. Some of us have to put distance between the child we gave up for adoption and the now adult that threatens to destroy our very being.

having read on the special needs forums about RAD children, there is every possibility that some bmothers for similar reasons have to withdraw from reunion - to save their sanity and I have every reason to feel that this is the route I have to take.

Sorry that everyone else is feeling upbeat with christmas and all, but I'm still angry and melancholy and yesterday was awful and I've had black moods (probably not helped by the kind of foods I'm eating which I dont normally, but I'm comfort eating).

And yet I feel empowered by my decision to leave my son to get on with it until he wakes up to the fact he has to make more effort than this. If I don't stand by my decision and let him 'find' himself I will lose my self respect, my pride and dignity and I'm not about to do that.

I wish everyone a successful stage to reach in their reunion for 2008. May all your tears be of joy and not of despair. Not likely, but I can always wish it eh?

Patience and self control - not my finest qualities but something I hope to nurture more in 2008.

My first resolve for 2008 - not to be a doormat for my son to walk over. But to enhance his appreciation for the person I am and that I am worth knowing. To NOT let him break my spirit and to keep him at a distance until he develops healthier mind sets.

Love to all that I've come to know since 2006! particularly FauxGina - mate, you have been great !!!

Here's to healthier options, healthy choices, healthy development.

Love Janny

[kakuehl]

Janny,
I'm sorry yesterday was awful... don't assume that everyone else is feeling upbeat about Christmas though.

I think it's important for all of us to remember that, no matter how we love our children, our identities are not determined by our relationship with them. If we give up who we are in an effort to please them and "make them happy", ultimately we all lose.

So, take time for Janny! You are a valuable individual even if your son never realizes it!

[Jackiejdajda]

Jannyroo wrote

Jackie, there is so much in your post that touches me deeply... and I mean deeply. "Words said and information not given" - I get that a lot - I may as well be emailing myself in the lack of things he picks up on and reflects back. Its self indulgent and its selfish, Unfortunately, those qualities dominate him. I cannot put it down to adoption anymore. His amom has told me what he can be like and she has had 29 years of him.

I want to control my daughter.. I want to do it more than anything.. but I cant..
In Melody Beatties.. twelve step book.. she wrote..(from memory)
“When I try to control people.. I end up making myself crazy”.

Such a lesson.. such a life lesson..
Such freedom in giving it up.. and just staying in the moment and getting on ..

To say I gave it my best shot, is too flippant. Only those who have followed my week by week, month by month, agony of a lad who seems determined to make me pay. I cannot make him do anything, true, but neither can he make me. I refuse to be blackmailed anymore by Verriers' take on 'dont you dare exit now'. I have been pummelled, bled, and left gasping with this selfish ________ (swearword) that has turned out to be my son. I don't think of blame. Blame doesn't come into it, but I'm darned if I am going to be a continuous punch bag for this oh so selfish creature that is making his amom pay, me pay and whoever else he wants to launch his diatribes at.

We can love them from afar.. We can love them and not let it take us to our knees..
That’s my thinking..
We can say.. “When you are ready to really see me and really know me. I am here.”

I have to admit, I had NO IDEA that such agony and pain would be worse in reunion than it was in relinquishment. The agony of knowing is turning out to be worse than the not knowing. Have I given up? only time will tell. This boy has got to learn a lesson and it would seem that I'm the only one that can behave in such a fashion that will make him learn that lesson. If he doesn't then he will have to carry on without his bmom in his life. I don't care to have the depth of my personality, love and core of my being being torn about by someone who is so self indulgent and so decided to make no effort to make available to himself the help that could easily be his, all he has to do is reach out for it, but its almost as if its wearisome to lift his finger.

All we can do is stand back and wait for them..

Love them from afar.. And acceptance of the maybe it may never happen.. Grieving that piece of knowledge!

I feel I've come to know a part of myself that has deepened my appreciation of me. I never knew I was capable of hanging in like this, to take this torture, this torment for so very long, to have to be on the receiving end with so precious little let up. To give such love and be so self sacrificing. I never knew that love could reach such depths for so little in return.

Giving a child up for adoption for me.. was emotional cut off..
Shut down time.. and when an emotion appears shut that sucker down too..
Finding my emotions is powerful.. feeling them.. be it anger be it incredible sadness.. or be it great joy.. Thats the thing to do IMO.

You are traveling to 'whole'.. like I am traveling to 'whole'.. all of it..

It will pass.. this is what I hold onto when the bad times come..
I have survived a lot.. and I can survive more..
And I can forgive.. now..
A biggie to me..

I am numb with shock that I now find myself in this position, but tough mother love is all that is left. His aparents are letting him be self indulgent. I'm not crowing, because I feel their pain, but like heck is that going to be me. I will not accept that he can't change, he can, like any of us can. But I will not be a doormat for someone who shows so little regard for everyone's feelings and every micron of sensitivity to his own. I know there are words for that, but I cannot write them for fear of upsetting others as well as myself.

You got to take away the drugs.. The drugs are in control.. know this..
I was an addict for some time in my life.. and boy I was self indulgent..
I only thought of myself and my problems.. I did not see what was happening to the ones around me..
The drugs take us inward.. and take us to a place of self indulgence..
He has a disease according to AA and the Big Book thinking.. a disease just like cancer..
“What would you do if he has cancer or something like that?”.. an Alanon member is asked..

He is not in his right mind..

What on earth has gotten me to this state? He has. And I have allowed it. Being persuaded by others to take this masochistic stance for far too long, but time has prevailed and so will my reputation. With him, with my friends and those who know about us two. He has the power to lift me up and take me to a place no other human being can. Every child has that propensity to do so. He has chosen to whip everyone around him and expect them to understand him.

You are just where you are supposed to be..

This is a big big lesson.. a big big learning..
Life happened to you and you had to give your child up for adoption.. and now you are dealing with what has happened..
Kids are difficult.. kept kids are difficult.. given away kids are difficult.. (some of them as always)
I remember you have not had any other kids..
You have not had the years of learning from having kids and accepting that they are selfish.. difficult etc etc.. and loving..

Stand back and see him.. and know it is not you.. you are doing the best you can..

Like you Jackie, every bone in my body is protesting - not fair? Sex with a worthless man 29 years ago and to pay the price with 29 year solitary confinement with parole coming from the only person who could release me from that - my son, then to be put into a worst state than all those 29 years???? I DONT THINK SO!!!!!! Sorry for the anger, but I'm livid. I don't see prisoners of war getting this deal, or even criminals in the justice system.

Perhaps blame is not the word, but he is accountable for his actions as well as lack of them. So he will have to learn that his bmother is no longer available. I will see whether there is any change in attitude and behavior, and my goodness, he has a real attitude problem. This 'relationship' where I feel very very used, is off limits. I don't think anyone else on this planet could have got away with treating me the way he has and I now have to call time for my own sanity.

“You do not need to be loved.. not at the cost of yourself”.
Gibran.. says..

And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, "Speak to us of Children."
And he said:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.

I have not celebrated Christmas for over 20 years. I don't acknowledge it for a variety of reasons, but with the sentimentality that is marketed with more strength each and every year to feel that unless you are joining in the 'festive fun' and successfully with family, well, what a poor creature you are. This has exacerbated my emotions and feelings of being unmarried, no family, dysfunctional family since I was the age of 11. I would 'manage' to get through these scintillating torturous scenes of 'family bliss' each year by finding something worthwhile, someone worthwhile to spend my time with, but as I get older, I realise just how little family I have. Whatever happened to me after relinquishment, left its mark branded in my soul and affected me and my lack of ability to 'mix' for life.

This is the first day of the rest of your life..
I do not like Christmas.. It is over for me thank goodness..
I got married and I tried and tried to love and all that good stuff.. and I was detached from all of it..
I wonder what I have done to my kids.. because of this detachment..
Life happens to all of us.. and sometimes its easy and sometimes its incredibly hard..
We can not wish for something to ‘be’.. when it is not..
All we can do is work towards a place of peace and calm and acceptance.. IMO

but when my son found me and I learned that he had a stronger family unit than I ever had, to think that he was surrounded by love, when I never was, when his family are 'there' for him, when mine abandoned me emotionally and when my son was born, is more than I can bear. Since first contact and the first Christmas since then, 2006 and this year 2007 has left its emotional mark and I too find it far too much a 'season' to cope with. I don't think I'm missing out on anything but the adverts will make me feel as if I am - because of the family life I wished I'd had, the husband, the subsequent children, all vapourises into nothing after the 25th and 26th and every year I ask myself, why does it get to me???

My son has made it clear that he doesn't want to see me. The enthusiasm is nil. I am not on board anymore, the lightswitch in my eyes has gone out. I felt nothing... now I feel the pain. Its excruciating.

I have not been on line this Christmas and I missed this post Janny.

I am so sorry it has hit you so hard this year.. How are you doing now?

Love Jackie

[Jackiejdajda]

agathaj wrote

The Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie. I have also found good stuff in an Alnon - I don't think that's not the right spelling but the organisation for people living with an alcoholic.

The most intense grieving that I have ever done is in an Alanon meeting..
I finally found out my bson birthdate.. I had managed to forget it for years..
In that forgetting I had ended up locked up in my home unable to conduct a functional life..
I went for therapy when I knew I was in trouble.. and I went to Alanon.. and AA and NA and OA and a few other A’s.
But Alanon was the group that was the best for me..

That first year that I recognized my bsons birthday I felt so detached.. I got out of the house and got on busses and traveled all over my city.. I walked and sat in a park as well.. (I remember that)
I ended up at my weekly Alanon meeting that nite and I ended up sharing my grief.. about my bson..
Such a lot of hugs.. I got after that meeting..
Such a lot of love..
Love helps so much I think..

I do not think I got love or grief or any of that when I gave him up.. I may have but I think I missed it.. or it was not shown in a way that was healthy for me..

But that meeting.. and that group.. what support I got..

And I love Beatties book.. The Language of Letting Go..

The title says it all..

Jackie

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by Jackiejdajda

“When I try to control people.. I end up making myself crazy”.

Such freedom in giving it up.. and just staying in the moment and getting on ..

We can love them from afar.. We can love them and not let it take us to our knees..

We can say.. “When you are ready to really see me and really know me. I am here.”

Finding my emotions is powerful.. feeling them.. be it anger be it incredible sadness.. or be it great joy.. Thats the thing to do IMO.

You are traveling to 'whole'.. like I am traveling to 'whole'.. all of it..

It will pass.. this is what I hold onto when the bad times come.. I have survived a lot.. and I can survive more..

You got to take away the drugs.. The drugs are in control.. know this.. I was an addict for some time in my life.. and boy I was self indulgent.. I only thought of myself and my problems.. I did not see what was happening to the ones around me.. The drugs take us inward.. and take us to a place of self indulgence..

He is not in his right mind..

You are just where you are supposed to be..

This is a big big lesson.. a big big learning..

Life happened to you and you had to give your child up for adoption.. and now you are dealing with what has happened..

Kids are difficult.. I remember you have not had any other kids.. You have not had the years of learning from having kids and accepting that they are selfish.. difficult etc etc.. and loving..

Stand back and see him.. and know it is not you.. you are doing the best you can..

“You do not need to be loved.. not at the cost of yourself”.

I do not like Christmas.. It is over for me thank goodness..

We can not wish for something to ‘be’.. when it is not..

All we can do is work towards a place of peace and calm and acceptance.. IMO

I am so sorry it has hit you so hard this year.. How are you doing now?

Love Jackie

Hi Jackie,
I'm spent. This is the last post I am responding to, as I'm totally spent and its late and I need to get an early night after many nights treading the boards until 02.00am.

I related a lot to the sentences above. I am printing it off, to 'absorb' it a bit more in the morning. I saw it earlier and it moved me. I felt it had some direction I could follow. It gave me some anchor to lose pointless stances and gain control over my situation and let him to his. Thank you.

I'm still feeling **** but I wanted to thank you for your thoughts... and feelings... I just need some sleep for now and some calm. The worst bit is yet to come. Here I am making all these decisions and he doesn't realise it yet. Its only a week since I last contacted him and he has NO idea that I am pulling away.

Its when he emails or I see the mobile ringing with his name on it... then it will be hard. Thats when I will see what I am made of and if I can carry through my intentions....

Night for now, peaceful dreams
Janny
and thanks

[Jackiejdajda]

You can still love them.. thats the bottom line..

You can be there for them when they or he is willing to treat you with the respect you deserve..
Its about loving yourself and learning how to do that..

Loving yourself enough to protect yourself..
And forgiving yourself..

Take your time..

Jackie