[Jackiejdajda]

Jannyroo wrote

Here's some of what Verrier says:

birthmothers who themselves had some kind of abandonment issues that haven't been worked through will have more problems sustaining the "mother" role than those who had stable childhoods.

And how many women or girls gave their babies up because of abandonment issues.. in early childhood..

I spent a lot of resentment time being angry with my mom and dad and their abandonment of me..
Then I realized I left my son the very same way.
That was really hard to face.. but face it I did..

This is why I like to post on threads where we are really really looking at the truth of the thing..

It is not unusual for sons not to communicate very much. For one thing, they think it doesn't matter (that they don't matter) so they don't bother.

I told my bson I loved him.. I tried to tell him how messed up I was back then..
And I stay connected..
I know this is all I can do here.. He has to deal with his abandonment issues.. I can not do it for him..
And I do not have to be in the guilt of my abandonment of him.. I can acknowledge it..
I can stand in it and know what I did..

But then I also know that all things are mulit determined..
Not one reason for giving him up.. and these are the real facts in this..

I looked at the pattern of my sons emails today. I tried to look at his world and his confusion and to stand back and not be affected by it, to be there for when he's ready and use the time I have to look at myself and what I need.

We can not make it all better.. Its life..
Its what happens in a society such as ours.. A society that expects people to sink or swim on their own.. and if they sink they go down and sort it there.. and then get back on the horse and continue on..
I knew my son was supposed to be born.. I knew I could not keep him..
Even if my mom and dad had of said.. we will help you from the very beginning.. I do not think I was emotional equipped to raise a son on my own.. I was a fool in those days.. I marvel at how I survived.. when I think of some of the things I did.. places I went..
But then I was abandoned when I was a child.. abandoned emotionally..
Mom and dad were drinkers.. and mom did not have a clue on how to mother..

April I heard nothing from him email wise and then it dawned on me - that is his birthday. Perhaps the anniversary of his birth has affected and overwhelmed him. November and December - nothing - he loves christmas with his family, so perhaps he felt under duress to share any of it with me? So, I'm trying to get into his world and see it as he may see it, as you say Jackie, it helps. The elastic of toleration can stretch that bit more when we have more insight I guess.

Its understanding the why of it..
In the movie Deep End of the Ocean.. the woman the mother has her baby snatched when the baby was very young..
They went for years and years looking for the boy.. and then one day the boy shows up at their doorstep.. wanting to cut the grass..
He was living down the street.. the woman that kidnapped him was dead and he was raised by the father.. the husband of the woman that kidnapped..

The boy moved home to his original family but was not happy.. He missed his home and his ‘father’.
The mother.. the woman that gave birth to him.. took him back.. drove him back..
She saw him in his map of the world and understood its what he wanted and needed..

"If you love someone set them free"..

I loved that song..

Trouble is, our own emotions cloud that and overtake us and send us into tailspin. Not fair, but thats the thing we have to accept, accept that its not fair, but thats the way the cookie crumbles.

We have spirals I think.. we go back to the feelings we felt or conclusions we came to when the first trauma happened..
We become (in some cases) childlike.. not in control of our emotions..
When I was traumatized while and after giving my son up.. I just closed ranks with myself.. buried it.. made it go away..
Nothing was solved.. nothing was worked through.. no grief work for me..

The emotional cloud.. IMO is a spiral a dropping back into those unsolved issues..
We need to look at that IMO.
Therapy.. journaling.. remembering.. and forgiving the self..

Calm in self - perhaps I'm feeling a bit better after 6 weeks of strong emotions, because I'm kind of feeling 'resigned', a weariness. I can't help feeling that that is what my son wants me to feel (without knowing it), what Verrier points out is that as a baby, our children cried and cried for us to come back... and we didn't. Perhaps now we know how it felt, to want so much, for them to come back to us... and they are letting us know how bad it felt, as babies, when we didn't come back to them - the same weariness, resignation, despair, then chameleon activity as they tried to adapt to the strangers that were now theirs as family.

I wonder if your son is conscious of this.. any of this..
We tend to think inward when we are emotionally involved with something that has not been looked at for a very very long time..
Not see the other person.. not able to fathom what they are going through.. we are too busy with our ‘self’.

A pain spiral and abandonment spiral.. is all inclusive.. IMO

So, I'm hoping to get some counselling for me to be that mother that I need to be. To work out my issues, that arose when I was a child and deal with it. I have tons of memories flooding back of my family, nice ones actually and that's taken me by surprise. Its as if the emotional ice is melting and I'm starting to 'feel' and 'remember' things that have been on ice too long. Yeh, painful memories, but good ones as well. I'll let you know how I get on, as counselling with this woman is just so productive, so helpful, so caring. (((hugs))) to everyone.

Reunion brings us into this stuff.. or did for me..
I had shut so much of it down.. and heck counseling is perfect because then you have a guide.. someone to show the right paths to take..
Someone to add things to your thinking..
Counseling really helped me.. and not just therapists.. sponsors and friends helped me as well..
You are talking about it.. you are exploring it.. that is sooo good..

I was away from the computer yesterday.. it was so nice to get your posts..

Jackie

[keds]

Hi everyone, I can't spend much time on the computer this weekend as I'm out of town and being watched by the "in-laws" like a hawk. I watched the "Deep End of the Ocean" with Michelle Pfeiffer so many times I think I wore it out! I could totally relate to her feelings and I try and think of it when wrangling with my emotions. "his map of the world" is such a good term and visualization. Oh, gotta go. Enjoy the weekend everyone.

[eliza4]

i had a rough time a couple of months ago...apparently i have a problem with control. i've felt extraordinarily overwhelmed and out of sorts with regards to my situation with my daughter. i am in therapy...and when i talked about my issues with needing a defined role and all the ambiguity of who i am to that child...well, technically, she's a woman with a baby...though she's still a teenager...my therapist said keep this in mind...you have had your experiences to become who you are...your daughter is on her own timeline and has stuff to figure out and as she experiences life...she'll start to define who you are to her...in her own time...and as i sat there...taking that all in...i felt this sense of DUH wash over me. i can't dictate what my role in life is...so i have to be ok with it...because if i'm not, i will spend my life being unhappy...and that's not fair to my other children. it's been about a month...six weeks since that breakthru and i've been more at peace than i have in the past year and a half. i still have self-esteem issues...but i'm comfortable with my own issues regarding my child.

[bfuddled]

[quote=Jannyroo]I really relate to what I've learned recently and what you are saying Jackie. I recently got this info, after reading Coming Home to Self which knocked me sideways, I was reading it to understand my son, but it pertained to ME and it was a huge shock. Here's some of what Verrier says:

birthmothers who themselves had some kind of abandonment issues that haven't been worked through will have more problems sustaining the "mother" role than those who had stable childhoods.

It is not unusual for sons not to communicate very much. For one thing, they think it doesn't matter (that they don't matter) so they don't bother.
-----------------------------------------------------
I HOPE THIS POST COMES THRU - BEEN HAVING TROUBLE WITH WEBSITE FOR SEVERAL DAYS ? AFTER REPLYING, AND TRYING TO SUBMIT MY NOTES WENT NO WHERE <SIGH> ALL THAT WASTED ENERGY AND BANDWIDTH <SMILE>


Hello friends....where has the list been ? ???? I have not been able to get into the forum or chat for days...just when I needed your support the most. Sorry to use the list for this but not sure if the problem is on MY end or if everyone had problems...SOMEONE please reply...thanks.

Now..this is an off topic ? as well....I need help learning HOW to use these reply options. I ALWAYS USE QUOTE because it helps me to stay on target and I feel helps others to follow the thread as well. DO MY QUOTES appear in thos gray boxes, all neat and tidy like I see on others posts...when I preview my submitted reply I DONT SEE THAT, NOR DO I SEE COLORS ETC so I think I am missing something...HELP.

Now...all I want to say on this topic of reunion...right now anyway is...THANK YOU for offering your experiences to the rest of us wandering around out here in the same circumstances. I welcome every post, every emotion...it has helped me tremendously.

As some of you know my BD wrote to me on the 15th..and 2 other times since then. She does have a life, I know...but her last note was full of OH SO MANY QUESTIONS that it took me 2 hours to write a reply...then I decided to put it on hold and I did not send it to her..........I felt I was getting in TOO DEEP too soon. I sent her a quick reply acknowledging her post to me...told her I would be back with some info...and I have not heard anymore from her. I guess she is waiting for my reply. I sort of felt like she was saying that she was thrilled with the communications...anxious to read everything...but at the same time she admitted she had to go on with life as it is for her...too...soooooooooooooo...what do you all think. Should I send her another quik reply to start some of the 'deeper thinking' she was passing on to me...or do I sit and wait until she writes back to me asking where I have been <smile> Last thing I want to be is a pest...truth is....i am/was being all consumed by this exchange of info and letting my own life slide...

The posts in this thread that I just read today...about the expectations of Reunion after being presented with a 28 yr old baby now (( in my case the BABY is 42 )) I could just relate to so well. At least I am not alone THIS TIME like things were back in the 60s...you all do understand and you do....get it ! ! !

big hugs

[Jackiejdajda]

What I do is write my reply (if it is a long one) in 'word'..
I then copy and paste it to the window in 'reply to thread'..

When I copy and paste my letter into the reply box..
I highlight what I want to quote.. and then click on the quote box..

its in the second row of things to cllick on (above)

B I U === etc.. till you get to the little box with a v at the bottom.. just before the # thingee..

I click on that and it puts the quote in the quote software mode.. then I keep the quote area highlighted.. and click on the 'sizes' and usually click on size 2.

And then I 'submit reply'..

I log on to http://forums.adoption.com/ and then click on
View a sampling of recent posts in the forum categories below. View all of today's posts.

I did the color bit by highlighting the View of todays post and then clicking on the arrow next to the capitol A next to 'Sizes'..

Hope this helps..

Jackie

[Jackiejdajda]

but her last note was full of OH SO MANY QUESTIONS that it took me 2 hours to write a reply...then I decided to put it on hold and I did not send it to her..........I felt I was getting in TOO DEEP too soon.

Its what we don't know that kills me in reunion..
All these emotions and we do not know what to do..

I sent off deep deep letters in the beginning and I expected words back.. I did not get them..

Its a dance..

Jackie

[kakuehl]

Befuddled, The forums were down Friday evening. As you say, it is frustrating.

As Jackie says... we involved in a dance, in a roller coaster ride, etc.

Have a good week all.