[Jackiejdajda]

What a joy it is to know that the thread I started prompted a share like this one..

Originally Posted by Lis6191

.......... I’m not sure I can say we are in reunion yet. We write letters & have met for coffee once. She lives less than an hour away, so geography is not the cause of the “distance.” To put it plain & simple, I’m scared. Scared to death. Scared of everything. Not to mention confused, angry, carrying tremendous guilt & for most of my life in denial.

I can no longer allow others to define me.. That is what got me into the relinquishment of my son..

I am a person.. I am a person that has to/needs to deal with the world around me.. learn my lessons..

My bson never mentions his adoptive parents.. I do not ask..
That is separate..

Originally Posted by Lis6191

The fear, confusion, & anger are all understandable as long as they can be admitted. The problem is rooted in denial because you can't make someone admit what they are denying. The guilt was very hard for me to see & was a very recent realization.

We got to peel the layers of our onion..

Its a fight for me.. I could not learn about my anger till I met my bson.. I was just needy before that..

Its taking that leap.. Jumping in and sorting what has to be sorted..
Learning to accept that others have their own 'foibles'.. Your birthmom and your aparents..
Your aparents adopted you.. They can not control who you are..
Your birthmom relinquished you.. she can not control the reunion.

We can not change anyone but ourselves..IMO We can not climb into someones head and say "CHANGE YOUR THINKING ABOUT THIS!"

Oh dear.. LOL

I hope and pray my bson understands why I can not call him up.. I understand that he does not do email very often..
I have my crappy bits and he has his..

No blame..

The IChing says that..

Jackie

[Lis6191]

kersey, I'm laughing and crying, thinking that was going to be my next thread. . . you see there was a paragraph in my first post that I removed because it was just toooo long. But I have not figured out, in 8 long years, where she fits.

I loved psych -- I have to wonder if those most troubled go into the field, but I'm digressing. In Psych 101 I learned that your brain is like a file cabinet; a conflict occurs when you obtain info that doesn't match/fit with what you already have filed. My file cabinet already has a file folder called "Mom" . . . I have a folder called "Friends" with several subcategories (work, school, scrapbooking), none of which she fits. She is a single solitary file folder that I decided not to file until our relationship unfolded; I never wanted to go into this relationship under false pretenses or with a predetermined outcome.

It's unfortunate that it has not progressed in 8 years. Part of that was because she knew I was in denial and she pushed it; probably before I was ready to deal with it. I ran and then needed the time for introspection. And part of it is because my afamily cannot accept it.

So, again I digress. I wish I had an answer for you. I don't know what we want our bmom to be, but definitely not our shrink lol

[Lis6191]

Jackie, we must've been typing at the same time. Yes, I felt compelled to post after reading your thread. I was cautious as I felt I was "snooping" on the bparents forum. But I have just been devouring all the information/perspectives on this forum. I read about all the wonderful bmoms waiting for the next letter and my heart broke for them. . . and my bmom. My heart breaks for amoms, too. My friend Keith has told me, "Lisa, that's the type of person you are, you see someone in pain and you want to take it away. Problem is you carry it for them and that's what's going to kill you."

I've been peeling the layers of the onion and I hope to get to the point where others do not define who I am. I know I have a ways to go.

I have a ton of respect for both the bmoms and amoms out here listening to us adoptees. I'm a mom now and I have a ton of respect for all moms.

[kersey19]

Hey Lis -- in some respects my question -- how do I be a birthmom -- was a theoretical question. There is no book (can you imagine -- what to expect when you're a birthmom) and there are no models. It's what I came to realize early on in my reunion with my daughter. While many of our experiences are the same -- our relationship is unique. We define -- together -- the roles will we each play in our lives. We will very likely be defining those roles for years to come. That's one of the greatest joys of reunion -- the journey. But it is a rollercoaster. My relationship with my daughter is the most complex relationship I've ever experienced in my life. Trying to figure out when to ask, when to push and when to step back can be a struggle. Where do I fit? How do I fit? I've said often that there are times when I feel like a visitor to a foreign country (and I don't speak the language). I wouldn't change this experience, this relationship, this journey for ANYTHING in the world. I guess what I'm trying to say -- with way too many words -- is that you have to take the risk to determine roles, to build a lasting relationship. There will be pain, there will also be the most incredible joy and in the process you will find out a lot about yourself.

By the way -- your post made me laugh! I'm sure my daughter doesn't want me as her shrink either

Take care Lisa -- and enjoy the journey of self discovery. It really is pretty darn amazing!

[antifloyd]

Originally Posted by Lis6191

I was cautious as I felt I was "snooping" on the bparents forum. But I have just been devouring all the information/perspectives on this forum.

Don't feel like you were "snooping"! I personally like to hear different perspectives from all sides of the triad. When we just stick to our respective "groups," (birthparents, aparents, etc) we can share similar experiences, but I think we can often learn more from the other "groups."

[marimari]

Lis, it sounds to me like one of your major struggles is to let your amom's fears not become your own; you are her daughter, that she surely knows...yes, maybe she has in her heart an awareness that you are "different" from her and your family...hopefully we have all been encouraged to be our own unique individual selves...that is OK..it's good! But, you don't have to assume guilt or saddness because of her. She may be afraid of flying...because she is doesn't give her the right to instill it in you, nor does it mean that you should be as well...you are not a shadow of her, nor is that true of your birthmother...you are not her shadow either. Having graduated many, many years ago with a major in psychology and sociology, I'll tell you that your bmom may possess an awareness of some issues, may even have done her homework and made an effort to understand some of the ups and downs and inside-outs of reunion...my guess is that she's way too close to this situation to be a "shrink" to you...she'll know better than to do that; she just may understand better, which is cool for you, rather than having been like some of us who were clueless. Your amom's insecurities are not yours; your bmom's issues, if she has them, are not yours either. You can't fix any of them and sometimes we can't please anyone...not even ourselves. So why try? Again, be the best that you can be and be true to yourself. You will always be you, you'll always share a history together, you'll always be a part of that great-looking family, and possibly be a part of another great family, too, creating more history...new stories. How cool would that be?

[InionGrinn]

Originally Posted by Lis6191

I tell my husband all the time, "I'm not a bad person." And he says, "of course, you're not. You're loving, caring, compassionate...." -- so why do feel so bad all the time? I know now that it is guilt . . . not sure yet how I get past it.

I wish I had some pearls of wisdom on how to get past this...I feel this too. Sometimes my heart wells up with the compassion for others that I feel - I just want everyone in the UNIVERSE to feel whole - including myself.
Listen to your husband - you are NOT a bad person because you need time to work through your reunion! Maybe part of our guilt stems from that 'belief that has been pounded into us that we "have no issues" that we are "whole"?

Originally Posted by Lis6191

My whole life I've been a parrot "I don't have any issues with being adopted" and "I'm fine with being adopted."

Did I write this or did you?!
It has been less than 6 months since I have realized there's more to adoption than being 'well adjusted' - which I consider myself to be. Maybe I'm not fine, maybe I do have issues...much of this stems from the fact that I feel I am hurting my aparents.
OK, feeling like I got tangential...
Lis -I am so glad you are posting here...you are an excellent writer -you really convey your feelings beautifully. I hope you stick around and continue your journey here...we can all learn and benefit from one another, no matter what side of the triad.

[chrismh]

Hello, I've been reading this whole thread and found it very interesting. I got pregnant 40 years ago and gave birth to a girl. She was adopted out to somebody else. Back then, you were hidden away and nobody talked about it. So the years go by and, yes, I made some bad choices over the years. But giving her up wasn't one of them, I knew that. It was the best thing for her, and me at the time. So a year ago, she found me. I don't think of her as my daughter. I gave birth to her, but I didn't raise her. I got married and had two kids. A boy and a girl. I feel differently about my daughter and my bdaughter because I raised my daughter and have a history with her. But my bdaughter and I have just met. I'm not her mother and don't feel like it. She has a mother. Our reunion is going very good, in fact my daughter and her are together as I type this. When she found me, she asked me questions about everything. I aswered her as best I could, being honest with her. I am true to myself in this relationship and try not to worry about what goes on in her head. Thats her problem. Her aparents know about her finding me. She also has a relationship with her bdad which is going good. But, she tells me her aparents aren't happy, overly excited, or don't talk about what is going on with the reunion. That makes me feel bad. Seems like they, of all people, would want to know whats going on. Now, do they not want to know out of fear or what? Now that I'm writing this down, I've discovered if I want to know, I'll have to ask her. And I will.

This thread has made me think about things which is good. I'm glad you started it Lisa. If we all keep reading and writing we will figure out that we can't control anybody or anything and should just take care of ourselves as best we can.

Thanks,

Chris

[dpen6]

Hi chrismh....and christy ,

This is exactly the kind of dialogue I love to see. This is what I think I wanted from my bmom. Total honesty. Where her mind was at the time and how she has evolved and learned from it. I was unable to hear any demands on me. In other words when my bgrandmother said at our first meeting..."she is your mother after all!" and angrly put something down....I didn't say a word, which was good because It was NOT a time for confrontation...I did not want confrontation....when my bmom said she really didn't sign the adoption papers (her signture is on them)...I detected some lying....it immediatly put distance between us. My first feelings were...aww man she is going to lie to me.....did not say a word. Actually never said anything about that to her. Later I would just beg for honesty and she agreed...but she never really told me about the circcumstances or her feeelings at the time. She would gloss over them and sometimes get angry if I pushed. So I did not.....I DO understand why she may have done all that....she was unable to "go there", but where did that leave me?? Thats the problem ...if I were an "angry adoptee" I would have pushed...if I were a "needy" adoptee I would have cried for info...but I don't consider myself either. As a result....the questions remain for me.......it gives me the feeling that my questions, concerns, and general feelings really don't matter much.

Originally Posted by chrismh

, I knew that. It was the best thing for her, and me at the time. So a year ago, she found me. I don't think of her as my daughter. I gave birth to her, but I didn't raise her. I got married and had two kids. A boy and a girl. I feel differently about my daughter and my bdaughter because I raised my daughter and have a history with her. But my bdaughter and I have just met. I'm not her mother and don't feel like it. She has a mother. Our reunion is going very good, in fact my daughter and her are together as I type this. When she found me, she asked me questions about everything. I aswered her as best I could, being honest with her."

BUT You can work on a relationship...some relationship...and christy can at least know and feel validated. As an adoptee I do understand that my mom is my mom and Ginger was my bmom.





"I am true to myself in this relationship and try not to worry about what goes on in her head. Thats her problem."quote

My next questions are honest questions...there is no defensiveness or anger...please don't take offense!!!


Do you care what it may be.....going on in her head? Whats going on in her head may be a result of your decision to place. Do you want to help her figure it out......do you care about that?




," I've discovered if I want to know, I'll have to ask her. And I will."


THATS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT....the ability to ask the questions and have them anserwed honestly without self protection or being defensive....being able to step outside ourselves for a minute and figure out why someone is asking ...as an adoptee I do that often...as lis said at the beginning of this thread...we as adoptees do that because the most important people(moms that give life and moms that give us life)....feelings are on the line here and most of us DON"T WANT TO HURT ANY ONE...hence the guilt...hence the inability for us to figure out OUR NEEDS.....we are tryiny to protect everyone else. I am not there now...but 19 years ago I was and it made for a distant relationship with my bmom...thats sad...because now that I think I get it...she has passed away!!

This thread has made me think about things which is good. I'm glad you started it Lisa. If we all keep reading and writing we will figure out that we can't control anybody or anything and should just take care of ourselves as best we can.

Thanks,

Chris

I AGREE!!!

Donna

[dpen6]

sorry if my previous post is confusing...don't quite get the quote thing yet......some of my comments are contained in the quoted part.....sorry

[chrismh]

Hi Donna, of course I care whats going on in her head. And I'll try to help her figure it out as much as I can by answering her questions. But in the end, what she thinks is up to her.
I was just talking to her on the phone and asked her why her mom doesn't ask about how the reunion is going. Her answer was, in her opinon, that the answer may be the reunion is going good and we get along good. That is something she doesn't want to hear. I am not part of her world and probably won't ever meet me, so she doesn't ask about what is going on.
Hope that helps.
Chris

[Lis6191]

Donna, you nailed it, what many of us adoptees get caught up in.

)....feelings are on the line here and most of us DON"T WANT TO HURT ANY ONE...hence the guilt...hence the inability for us to figure out OUR NEEDS.....we are tryiny to protect everyone else.

That's where I've been stuck. I've been paralyzed. Seems like no matter what I decide to do someone is going to get hurt. I've often told people that I feel I'm walking a tightrope. . . . being here is helping me to finally make sense of it all. Thank you.

Chrissy, I feel I am more sensitive to other's pain, knowing that I've been in pain my whole life. And how awful it would feel to be the cause of someone's pain. I hope we can move past the guilt together and get to the place where Donna is.

Chris, thanks for pm'ing me and making me feel welcome. I was a little overwhelmed at the 59 pages of Deb's Thread I've got a lot of catching up to do!

kersey, I figured your question was rhetorical, glad I could make you laugh

[kersey19]

Keep in mind Lis that decisions you make are decisions for you. You can't control how other's react to what you are doing for you. How they react (hurt, angry, jealous) is their responsibility. You are not intentionally trying to hurt anyone. I hope that makes sense. I've lived my life trying to make sure everyone else is happy, that no one has hurt feelings. It is how I am wired. By doing that, I often was unhappy because I was sacrificing myself for others. It's hard to move yourself from that point but it is a must. When my daughter contacted me my husband went into a tailspin -- he was dwelling on my past relationship with her birthfather. It's a long story that I won't bore you with ...it was the first time I looked him in the eye and said "you will not deny me this opportunity. I'm sorry you are hurting but I will not give up a relationship with my daughter because you are struggling with this situation." He was hurt for awhile but in the end he came around because he saw the pure joy I felt in having my daughter in my life. I know my situation is different -- but there are times when we need to be selfish, to think about ourselves and our happiness.

Best wishes Lis -- I wish you peace and happiness. -- Jill

[dpen6]

chrismh,
Thanks for clarifing that....and I agree totally that after questions answered what she does with it IS her problem. Hers to figure out ect. Although knowing your daughter , just from these forums...she does a darn good job of figuering things out!!...sorry christy...don't mean to talk behind your back! I think we as adoptees need to take that info, if given honestly, and seperate that from ourselves...personaly.....see the person that bmom is...I think some adoptees do think..."well how could you do that to me!!! When in fact it was not being done to us ...PERSONALLY.....you were reacting to a situation...and react the best way you could at that time....even with our distance sometime, in our relationship I always felt compassion for her situation....the potentional for negative judgements in my bmoms situation was great....but I think I always intuitivly KNEW..that she did the best she could given what she had. I wish we could have talked about that because I think it would have giving her some peace. it was not a great picture if looked at ..especially in the fifties. I did often tell her I would not judge her.

I also totally understand the aparents fears....they have loved us, we are their children....I loved my mom as any daughter could. She did support my reunion...she watched my kids the first day I meet my bmom. She often told me she understood...again we did not talk deep about feelings ect.....I was afraid to go to deep...it may have hurt her and at that time I could not have lived with myself for hurting her. Hence more distance.

I NOW know that if we all could have talked and expressed our feelings how much better thinngs could have been. I often told her she could not be replaced and she would always answer she understood...but.....I never asked if she was fearful, of what she really felt....so I don't know how she REALLY felt about it.

Lis...this is a work in progress and for many years I was stuck...in the middle...not knowing if or who I was hurting. Its a hard place to be. Its ok to verbalize that we need to put ourselves front and center its a whole nother thing to live it. I avoided it for many years. It is very difficult to tell ones parents that I am going to do this no matter what you feel. When you love your parents and something like this does affect them...you don't want to be the source of their pain...its also very difficult to say...well ...its your problem to deal with(and it really is).....it sounds cold and not compassionate. I don't think you need to be forceful about it...just attempt to tell them what is needed for you and they will never be replaced. they may surprise you...my dad helped to to go to georgia for my bmoms funeral...shocked the bejesus outta me!! I thought he was less understanding .....you never know.


I was not in pain about my adoption...I knew and continue to learn how it really was such a good thing for me. I never felt abandoned....was the reunion that had me tied up in knots....

Kersey...I agree....there are situations in our lives that our ours and ours alone...it is so conflicting when someone comes in and makes things difficult...offers opinions on what we should or should not do...and we know ...its more self serving for them then anything else...its fustrating.

[Jackiejdajda]

Originally Posted by Lis6191

Jackie, we must've been typing at the same time. Yes, I felt compelled to post after reading your thread. I was cautious as I felt I was "snooping" on the bparents forum. But I have just been devouring all the information/perspectives on this forum. I read about all the wonderful bmoms waiting for the next letter and my heart broke for them. . . and my bmom. My heart breaks for amoms, too. My friend Keith has told me, "Lisa, that's the type of person you are, you see someone in pain and you want to take it away. Problem is you carry it for them and that's what's going to kill you."

Melody Beattie.. 'The Language of Letting Go'.. Her daily reader..
There is incredible wisdom in that book that applies to this IMO.. It has an index in the back.. I don't have a clue where my book is but I bet she has some good words about boundaries..

Setting a boundary with lots of love in it

But I know how hard that is.. You can't insult.. I can't insult my bson.. He asks personal stuff and I do not want to answer..
Same issue you are dealing with..

But I can also see where it is very different.. You say you feel unconnected in some ways.. (my interpretation of your words)
Can you speak more on that ?

Jackie