[79nic]

Ok everyone.....

Let me have it. I don't care what you say to me, I have to post this. Because I really need some reactions, ideas, thoughts. Good, bad, whatever. Bring 'em on.

Here's the story:

Since before Marie was born, I've fully supported open adoptions.

I have always maintained that open adoptions are (usually--barring extreme circumstances) the best type of adoption for the child.

I am NOT revising that opinion. I still believe this.

BUT

I am becoming less and less sure of how MUCH of a benefit it really is.

Thought process here:
Lots of adoptees grow up happy and healthy and do not search their birthfamilies out. Would those adoptees have benefited from an open adoption? Even if they did... would it have really mattered to their lives to have openness? I mean, yes, if they'd had an open adoption, they would have had more people in their lives that loved them. But considering they turned out OK (better than ok--at peace, happy, successful) without the openness, then would it have been really that much of a benefit? In terms of truly mattering to their lives?


Now...
Let's say we could quantify the amount of "goodness" an open adoption brings to an adoptee, OK? Let's say it brings, oh, 15 pounds of "goodness" to the adoptee.

Now let's say that you can also quantify how much "pain" a birthmother gets from openness. Let's say she gets 30 pounds of "pain."

At what point does the birthmother's pain outweigh the adoptee's good stuff?

Never?




...I am really struggling with this adoption right now. The truth is, I can't get the thought of abandoning contact out of my head. I've been through it a thousand times, and it always comes back to one conclusion: I'd be doing it for a selfish reason. I'd be doing it so I could have some peace.

So yes, it'd be a selfish choice. I'd be doing it for ME, not her.

But I have to tell you (and this is the truth), as much as I believe, intellectually, that open adoptions are the best type--that they are good for adoptees--that they are important--

As much as I believe all that in general terms, I just don't feel it in my heart in Marie's case.

It's not that the openness is BAD for her. It's just, I don't see that it matters.

It's so extreme, my lack of belief in it mattering to her, that when her mom, Y, says that Marie mentioned me, or tells me Marie asked how she was born, I actually wonder if Y is making the stuff up. Just to make me feel important.

In my head, I know Y would never do that. But in my heart, I just feel so unimportant to Marie that I can't believe she even cares enough to mention my name.

Maybe that is the problem? Maybe if I felt I was worthwhile to her, I could keep going with contact despite the pain? Maybe, even, the pain would go away? Maybe I wouldn't mind the birthmother label... maybe I wouldn't hurt so much when I think about Marie.. maybe?

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I tell you, in my heart of hearts I want to shut the door and walk quietly away.

Nicole

[michellemartin]

Nicole, I have missed you on the boards lately. Glad you are posting again.

How do the ap's feel about revising contact? If you are all okay with stepping back for awhile, I dont think it would adversly affect your birthchild. Just leave the door open. Have you talked to her ap's about your feelings at all?

I think my choice of adoption was a selfish one. I didnt choose it for my bchild, I chose it for me. Being selfish isn't an evil thing.

[kemf]

FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE I CAN SEE WHY YOU MIGHT WANT TO CLOSE THE DOOR AND NEVER LOOK BACK. BUT NO MATTER HOW YOU TRY THAT IS A DOOR THAT WILL NEVER CLOSE. ITS A PART OF YOU THAT WILL NAG YOU CONTINOUSLY UNTIL YOU HAVE PEACE.
PART OF THAT PEACE SHOULD BE KNOWING THAT YOU DID EVERYTHING IN THE COMPLETE AND UNSELFISH INTEREST OF HER. AND IF YOU TRUELY DID, WOULDNT IT TRUELY BE PEACEFUL FOR HER TO ONE DAY TELL YOU THANK YOU.
COMING FROM AN ADOPTEE, ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS TO DEAL WITH IS THE UNKNOWN. AND NEVER KNOWING IF YOU WERE WANTED AND LOVED. OPEN ADOPTION GIVES HER THE CHANCE, NO MATTER HOW LOVED, TO HAVE ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS THAT CAN ALSO BE VERY PAINFUL.
SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO KNOW, AND MORE THAN LIKELY SHE WILL WANT TO.

[79nic]

Let me clarify.

I am not talking about disappearing off the face of the earth.

I am not talking about limiting my parents' contact with Marie.

I am not talking about going into denial.

There is no way to get around the fact that I'm a birthmother. I don't like it, but I can accept that.

What I am talking about is saying to her parents, "Here. Here is ALL my identifying info: my social security number, my name, my birthdate, my phone number, my address, my employer's address. Here it all is." (They have all this except the SS# anyway.) Then, handing them another piece of paper... a letter to Marie. A letter of explanation, and message telling her that if she ever wants to look me up, I will welcome her back into my life.

Then, stepping away.

Closing the door; not locking it.

I said this to my hubby tonight. He said, "Yeah, but if you do that in ten years you know she'll just come looking for you anyway."

My response to that is, "Yes, but at least I will have had those ten years of peace."

Michelle...

No, I haven't talked to her ap's about any of this. I am really scared to. They soooo want an open adoption. I've been racking my memory, trying to recall what exactly I signed. I don't have a copy of the contact agreement. Not sure if D and Y do.

In June when I visited, Y said something about the agreement being put together hastily. (The match and placement happened so fast for us.) I remember her saying they put down "updates and letters once a month, visits 6 times in the first year, and then after that whatever we were all comfortable with." Something like that.

I'm kind of hoping it's true. That I didn't sign that I'd continue contact forever.

(sighs)

(Have to go get Elise now, she woke up and is crying...)

[79nic]

Elise is back in bed.

I put her down in her crib, tuck her in, pull her classic Piglet on the side of her bed to make the music play.

She curls up in a ball, sucking her two little fingers and clutching her blankie.

I look down at her. She is so innocent. She has no idea of all the turmoil in life.

She has no idea that she has a sister out there, 200 miles away, sleeping in another bed, in another house, with another family.

I think about cutting off contact with her sister, Marie. I know I will still have to answer Elise's questions.

What will it do to Elise if I cut off contact? Will she feel Marie's a subject she can't broach with me if she needs to? Will I be putting up a barrier between not just one daughter, but two?

_ _ _ _ _

I am just so tired. I haven't slept a full night in ages. Elise usually sleeps through the night--tonight was a rarity.

No, it's insomnia keeping me awake.

Night after night I try to shut down my thoughts just to sleep, and night after night they keep coming.

I am so TIRED. Of everything....

...Of reading between the lines every time Y sends an email.

...Of putting forth the effort to build a friendship with D and Y, when they are 200 miles away and thus nearly impossible to do so.

...Of wondering how the answer the question "How many kids do you have?"

...Of racking my brain trying to come up with Christmas present and birthday present ideas for a little girl I really don't know.

...Of trying to figure out my place in her life.

Everything.

_ _ _ _

I am sapped of energy.

This is what I mean when I say I want some peace. I want to go to bed at night NOT wondering what Y meant when she said "xxxxx" in her last email. I want to be able to look someone in the eye when they ask me how many kids I have and say "one," and not feel strange about it. (It would feel so much more honest saying one if I didn't have contact with Marie! And then I wouldn't have to say "two" and explain.) I want to be let off the hook from all the educating. I don't want to be "Nicole the birthmom."

I want to be "Nicole, the mother, the artist, the wife, the reader, the department store employee, the caseworker, the writer, the friend, the granddaughter, the niece, the cousin, the sister, the daughter... who happens to have placed a child for adoption."

I don't want to live in denial.

I just don't want to live and breathe Marie's adoption every single day.

_ _ _ _

There is another forum I post on. Last week, I took a break from it. Stepped back. Read some posts, but didn't post myself.

It was so freeing. Now, it's hard to bring myself to even go back.

There are a few women there I would still like to talk with. Some friends. Some people I genuinely like and care for even apart from adoption.

But I realized that the others, I don't really need. I did OK on my own.

The funny thing is.... right at the end of my week off, an amom posted after having been absent for several months. One of her comments was, "Where is Nicole? Is she still around? She taught me so much, and my relationship with X's bmother is stronger because of it."

It should have made me happy. It was sweet, a compliment.

But it just reinforced to me that, over there, I am "the educator."

I got the "tired" feeling when I read it.

_ _ _ _ _

It was so nice to come here and talk mostly just about books and religion and irrational fears. (Thanks for all those threads, Michelle! ) To concentrate on non-adoption issues.

For the first time in years, I actually picked up a sketch pad and drawing pencil and sketched.

_ _ _ _

I want to get back to that. I want to get back to reading, and drawing, and painting. To everything I was before I placed.

But it's so hard to do when I get an email from Y. It's hard to do when I announce to someone (in the hopes of educating, of course) that I am a birthmother and there is nothing but silence.

I've always been a person of extremes. It seems this is no different. This "middle ground"--seeing Marie but not mothering her--is not working for me.

[Free_to_be_me]

Nicole,

How old is Marie right now? Does she ever talk to you about her being adopted or ask you questions that no one else knows the answer to?

My birthdaughter is 9 1/2 years old now. One of the rituals we have is that when I visit I ususally stay overnight. We sleep in the same room and usually spend at least an hour talking. One of the subjects we almost always talk about is her birthfather. She does not remember him (his last contact with any of us was when she was less than a year old) and is really bummed out that she can't know him. I know that it REALLY bothers her. She doesn't generally ask her adoptive parents about him because they didn't know him very well. I am her only connection to him.

Another thing that makes me very aware of how important I am in her life is a conversation she had with my sister. Now, it was a pretty basic conversation, not as morbid as it might sound here. She was hanging out with my sister and said "You and my birthmom sure are good to have as family. Now I know who I could live with if my mom and dad ever died...my birthmom or you (my sister and her husband)."

Of course, her mom and dad have a legal guardian in place in case anything ever happened, but it feels good knowing that my birthdaughter is so comfortable and feels so loved by us that she isn't worried about what would happen to her.

So, the point of all of this is that my birthdaughter wasn't able to communicate what I mean to her when she was younger. I could tell there was some attachment, but had no clue if she ever thought about me when I wasn't there. Now, I know she does. Also, the first 4 or 5 years were pretty tough for me. I always had to take an extra day or two off work to process and deal with every visit...I wouldn't even consider working or having anything I HAD to do on her birthday or mother's day... After almost ten years, I am doing well enough that it isn't stressfull to visit. It is the comfortable normalness that I hoped it would become. My question for you is: Do you think that more time might ease your pain? Will your pain be eased more if you visit or don't visit?

I really hope that you maintain a way for the adoptive family to contact you in case you move or change jobs or something, but if you need to take time to heal, don't feel bad about it. It's really important to take care of yourself. It is also okay to be selfish. I mean, really, you are the most important person to you. Do what you need to to feel right.

Lynn

[michellemartin]

I understand about wanting to not cut off a possible relationship for your daughter. When I first started going through profiles I really wanted a family that would be open so Karma could know her sister. I wasnt sure then if I would want to be a part of that then. I wanted for Karma to be able to go every other year to spend a weekend with them. With or without me depending on if I could have a relationship with them. Maybe Marie's parents would be open to having your daughter visit every other year when she gets older. I had this sort of relationship with my cousins who live in another state. I was able to know them, and form a relationship with them. Yeah, it was mostly letters and phone calls, but those visits always will mean something to me.

I left a group... and no one noticed... at least someone cared enough to notice.

You will be okay. Do you want the letter technique from John Gray? It can be pretty helpful. If you'd like it let me know and I'll pm it to you. It might help to have that "format" to write out your feelings to Marie's parents. I really think you should tell them how you are feeling.

Watch out for more upcoming threads in chit-chat completely unrelated to adoption...

[L-A-J-C-R-C]

Hi,

79nic, speaking from an adoptive mom's point of view, I would think that if you need to close (but definitely not lock) the door right now you should do that.

You will be no good to Marie or Elise if you continue to feel the way you do, if you continue to lose sleep over this, if you don't move forward.

I cannot speak as a Bmom as I have never placed a child for adoption, however, I can speak as a compassionate human being. You are obviously in a great deal of pain and, IMHO, it is more important for you to be taking care of yourself right now. You have another child and a life that you need to start leading again. You need to take this time for yourself to heal so you can be the best person/parent that you can be.

I just have to believe that Marie's parents will totally understand and support you if you explained this to them. You think this will be selfish and maybe it would, however, I think the idea you have about giving them all of your information, pics, etc. is a good one. I believe you will want contact again sooner than when she's old enough to search for you. Even if you don't, THAT'S OKAY! You have already told her to feel free to search for you.

Best of luck to you. May you find the peace you so desperately need.

Michelle

[Volfe]

i understand ya. I too wanted Michelle's planned set up where the kids would have unending visits, but mine would taper off after the first couple years. But now I'm afraid to back off at all for fear that it will close on their end...

But i wanted to share how I contact Nathan...
Pretty much I do not contact them very often. The past 6 yrs has been mostly contact every couple years. That might sound bad...but it just kind of happened. The trick is that I can call if I want to call and they can also... That in itself is reassurance.

As it is I owe him pics and I haven't gotten any to send - I'm camera shy.
This month...I am getting all my pics for the kids in place!

But I guess that just having the reassurance of openness... having it be passive... is enough for me. I think he is ok with it although we don't talk adoption. He talks about his life today with us. His mom said he doesn't like to talk on the phone but he talked to us for an hour, she would peek out at him (she told me later - too cute).

Does open adoption need to be constantly active to be beneficial? Can't it be passive too?

I do understand where you're coming from...
Who wants to live in pain constantly?

Maia
PS We need to draw together, I'm having the same problems... not creating... understand totally.

[79nic]

Thanks for the responses, everyone.

It feels so good to get this out. It's been inside me for a while now... thinking about cutting off contact.

Lynn--

Marie is three and a half.

I have to admit I felt jealous when you talked about your "overnight" ritual with your birthdaughter. How did that evolve? Was that your idea? Hers? Her amom's?

I can't imagine ever having that close of a relationship with Marie. I am not natually good with kids. Never been a kid-magnet like some women are.... My sister can walk into a room full of toddlers and have them all clinging to her leg within a couple hours. Not me.

I am also very shy. Always worried about people judging me in social situations. The worry is magnified a thousand times with Marie.... I don't want to be "some woman" who expresses all this emotion and affection for Marie, and have her thinking the whole time, "Get a life, lady... I barely know you.... I don't WANT to hug you."

Did any of you ever feel this way? Or did you just express your affection and not worry about it?

Lynn... You said,

So, the point of all of this is that my birthdaughter wasn't able to communicate what I mean to her when she was younger. I could tell there was some attachment, but had no clue if she ever thought about me when I wasn't there. Now, I know she does.

How did you know there was some attachment when she was little? Were there certain things she said, did?

Marie does not hug me voluntarily. She doesn't kiss me.

The closest thing I've gotten is her taking me by the hand this past summer and leading me down closer to the band at an outdoor music concert. She willingly initiated it and we sat on the grass together and she told me all about the music and the drums.

Other than that, I've never been alone with her since the hospital. And it is really, really hard for me to form a relationship with someone without one-on-one time. I do OK one-on-one, but groups... (shudder).

Michelle and Michelle,


Thanks for your responses, too. I honestly keep expecting someone to come on and start yelling that I can't close the adoption. And if anyone does, that is fine. I really want opinions and experiences from people on this even if they're not supportive of closing it. Maybe I need a good kick in the pants to wake me up and give me the strength to keep going with it. I honestly don't know. But the compassion is nice, too...

Michelle, I know if I just search some of your posts I could find that letter format. Lemme try that and if I can' t find it, will let you know. Thanks.

Sorry these posts are so long... guess it's just been bottled up for a while.

N

P.S. Marie's birthfather is not involved in her life. So yes, I am her best link to knowing about him. Our relationship was secretive, so no one in my family really knows him. My parents have met him twice, but that's it.

P.P.S. kemf... you said "She has a right to know and most likely she'll want to." Do you think most adoptees want to know their birthmothers? Or do they mostly just want to know ABOUT their birthmothers and the circumstances? I guess I'm having a hard time believing Marie will really want to know me. Her story, yes. Me, no. Am I wrong?

[79nic]

Oops Maia, sorry didn't respond to you. You must've posted while I was typing my long-a$$ response. LOL.

I hear what you're saying about the passiveness of it. I think for me, I'd like to say "No more,"but still have some link. For me, that'd be my parents. They'll never stop contact with Marie, she's their first grandchild and they love her to no end, and she honestly loves them, too. You can tell she has affection for them. (Another struggle--seeing her eyes light up when my dad is in the room, and never seeing those eyes light up for me.)

As far as Elise having access to Marie... she could always go to visit with my parents.... LOL, Mom and Dad would be on cloud nine: visiting one grandkid while getting the other all to themselves overnight... Ha, I can just see the excitement on Dad's face!

[michellemartin]

Nicole, I'm terrible with kids too. They just dont seem to connect with me. I thought about doing day care after high school, so I took those classes... going to the day care's to see what they're like... I knew it wasnt for me. Just not a kid person.

I think for me it will be better when she is older and can email.(I'm a horrible phone person, too) (get all nervous) When she has real questions and concerns... but right now... It wouldnt kill me to not see her, although I do like to contact her parents. One thing I sometimes feel really really terrible about is that I dont think about her every day. I feel like I'm supposed to think about her everyday. I'm usually on the boards everyday, and I talk about adoption just about every day, but I dont always think directly about her. Most of the time even when I do post about her its because I use the term "Kara's parents". Then I get around to feeling like a "bad birthmom" for not being more concerned about her...

[RiverGal]

Nicole ~ This may be considered selfish on my part, but I could never have done an open adoption. Our arrangement was for yearly pics and updates...a long story, but the amom never followed through.

The adoptive grandmother (amom's mother) did locate me and for 16 years, she was in touch (secretly) with me, providing pics and many stories. At one point, she suggested that she could arrange a "meeting" for me to actually see Jennifer when she was about 7 or 8, as just a stranger at a party her parents would not be attending. I told her no. My peace was in knowing that Jennifer was safe and loved, that she was happy and well-adjusted.

In my mind, there was a cozy place that the two of us shared, a place where I could go and hold her close to my heart; a little fantasy place where we could talk and laugh, where she related to me...where we drew pictures together, talked and held hands. To actually meet her could have dashed all of the peace I had painstakingly pulled together. What if she was afraid of me? This stranger who would not have been able to stop staring at her? What if she didn't like me? What if...what if....

Like you, I did not wat to go through everyday reliving the adoption, nursing feelings that left my heart heavy. I truly believe that because two people are biologically related does not assure there is any other bond, whatsoever. Relinquishing was the most selfless act I have ever done...and perhaps choosing to keep a certain distance was the most selfish, but I chose that. I have always remaind easily "findable," and will answer any questions and give all Jennifer might want of myself...but I want that to be HER choice.

With as many well-adjusted, happy adoptees as there are who had no openness in their adoption experience, I don't feel like I slighted, or damaged Jennifer by not "meeting" her. There seems to be quite a lot of pain in many of the more open adoptions, and my heart truly goes out to those of you who wrestle with those feelings. When I first came to the forum, I thought differently...but after seeing all the hurt, I have a new opinion. Selfish? Quite possibly....but self preservation is sometimes necessary.

In closing, I just want to make it clear that I am not opposed to open adoptions; however, I think posts like yours are beneficial for possible birthmoms who are looking for the right arrangements to see that open adoptions also have major psychological drawbacks.

Wishing you the best of luck in your decision.

~D

[FauxClaud]

My son's adoption was closed...sometimes it feels like it was one of the last (1987) traditional closed adoptions.

At times I have wished that I could have known more...17 years of wondering where, who he was, was he OK...and so wanting a picture..just to be able to see my child's face again....but so many other times..hearing words like you type here, I am thinkful that I did not feel the obligation of an open agreement.

When he was born and after I had surrendered, I had the opportunity to learn where he was going "home" to...and though so tempting, I knew then that I did not want to tie myself to a "place" for a life time...I would have to then keep on going back there and watching quiety from the bushes..and really, I did not want to do that to myself. Sometimes I wish I had taken the chance, but mostly I am glad that I knew better.

I have often stated that I wonder sometimes about the benefits of an open adoption. We just really won't know until the children who have lived it will be old enough to speak of the experience and tell us how it feels. Sometimes it seems like it is something that is there to make it seem more alluring to place..and it sounds great on paper, but them those nasty human emotons come into play. And there is no way to tell before how it will feel, but how many have said that there is no way they would have placed without knowing that you coud see your child? And yet, it does tie you to the experience forever...

Closed, there were large pockets of time, when life was not all about "the adoption".. places where I was no longer a "birthmother" but just me living my life. Times when all the feelings and doubts just sat quietly and did not nag at my very being.

I know where my son is now and I have pictures of his beautiful face. And as much joy as it brought me, the aftermath was harsh...such a high point is counterbalanced with such a low that follows...I knew again, that I could not have lived with this constant cycle all these years. The anxiety that I had while "waiting" for this update...the tension that filled my house each day and did effect my family while waiting to see what the mailman would bring...as much as I would love more..I hesisitate still to bring this into my life.

I think self presevation is a very good word to use in this kind of situation..and , I . for one would not condem at all you for thinking of yourself. Sometimes it just seems like "how much can one trully take in and suffer and still have the will to live?"
I know there are those who feel they have truly benefitted froma good open relationship and that's fine, but when it comes down to it, we are all so different and only we are able to know for ourselves how much we can truly carry on our shoulders.
Sometimes you got to put that weight down for a while so you can get to the next level.
Thinking of you.
Claud

[abcg1977]

Boy this post got me wanting to talk. First let me say. I was relinquished at birth. Adopted to a good family however, they got a divorce and life was alright anyway. Not great, but no family is perfect, right. I had non-identifying info. and nothing else. I decided for my own reasons I had to look for who and why. When I found my bfamilies they were both good with it. It is all working out well, I am going through all the rough emotional stuff but I'm trying hard to deal. I am determined to have peace in my life. The thing I learned from my bmom was that closed adoption gave her peace. Now that I know her better I can understand this. Watching the child you don't parent must be like mental abuse, I say this as a mom myself. If you have to take a step back, so that your relinquished child can find you later a whole and mentally sound person then step back and let go. Don't feel guilty. I said in another post if you leave a child behind just let them know you loved them. It will hurt but frankly this child will hurt on some level anyway knowing they couldn't be kept. Minimizing their pain by telling them the truth, even if delayed until adulthood is a wonderful gift. Needing peace yourself does not make you a monster. You have to maintain your sanity or you will not be good for either of your daughter's. You also said that you always have to tell everyone about your oldest and explain... No you don't. She will have no problem calling Y mom. So you have given her a mother. You can be her bmother or whatever, later when you two are both ready.You are torturing yourself by telling everyone. The day will come you can reconcile it all with Marie, let that be the place for all your explainations.,