[Jackiejdajda]

79nic wrote...(Light bulb moment. No need for me to walk away just yet.... Leave it up to them, really. If they won't let me fulfill my role, then I can go away. But it doesn't hurt to ask.... Nothing to lose anyway, since I've been wanting to walk away.)

An amazing deduction..

Thank you so much for sharing all of this..

Jackie

[bromanchik]

Nicole,
BTW, I think Regina is right. I think Y has issues with your sadness. For many adoptive parents a birthparent's grief is difficult, for most adoptive parents a birthparents regret is taken personally.

One thing about your story. I explain to adoptive parents that children are smarter than we think. In their little minds they know that when you are not able to be with someone you love you are sad. For you not to be sad might make them feel it was easy for you to be seperated. You might try and work that logic in the story somehow.

On the other hand young childen do what they call "magical thinking" where they think there thoughts and actions caused events to take place. It is important to somehow let her know that her placement was because of your actions and that she is not responsible for your sadness.

It's tricky. If you want me to look it over I would be happy too.

I hope you get some alone time. Matt's parents started that with the first visit. They would be in the house, but they would make themselves scarce. Some of my most precious moments are those times.

[spitzlvr]

I was just reading this thread, and really wanted to make 1 little comment. Eariler in the thread someone spoke of gifts, and if they matter. I just wanted to give my opinion.

I am a 36 year old adoptee. If my house were on fire (and all living things out), and I could only grab 1 thing on my way out that would be a little pink dog named Sniffer. Sniffer lives in my bedroom - the only stuffed animal I still have. I have had Sniffer as long as I can remember. When I was adopted, I came with a little sunsuit, and Sniffer. Sniffer goes where I go. It is HE who has known me the longest.

I always wondered if my bMom gave him to me. I recently met my bMom. It wasn't. So that means Sniffer came from a foster mother. Some one loved me enough to give him to me, and he is the most prized possession I own. Always has been, always will.

So if you wonder if gifts matter, please know - they do.

My 3 year old son will tell you exactly who gave him each toy he owns. It matters to him. To me. And even if a child doesn't say it, I think it matters.

[coco46]

Nic Wrote:

Basically, I feel like I can't play the role I'm supposed to in Marie's life. My feeling about my role is this: to build a relationship with her so that she knows I love her AND she's comfortable coming to me with questions.

Nic:

This is SO how I felt in K's life for such a long time. Can I offer you the feeble comfort that it gets easier over time? I know that seems like a cliche, but it really does. Again, K and I have not yet had that "deep" discussion about why I placed, why she may have adopted sibs thru me & DH, etc. I stilll feel confident in my decision though, and I still know I made the best plan for her based on the "data" I had at the time.

Not to seen flippant but--don't we all question why we placed once we're more stable? For me, though, I know that the decision I made then was truly the best...I mean, could I have subjected her to 6-7 years of uncertainty, poverty and strife while I got it together? Sure. Would it have been "better" for her, or me? Unequivocably...NO!

You asked me how I made the relationship my own, without fitting it in to anyone else's ideas of how "open adoption' was supposed to be. It was hard, especially at first, but I made the contacts on my own terms. I'm a little shy myself and I don't want to take too much time here, but for me, that meant a bit less contact than the "generally accepted" definition of open adoption.

If you'd like me to tell you more about my story, please PM me. I don't want to bore anyone with my EXTRA long tales, lol.

You're doing a brave, difficult and ultimately personal thing here. No matter what you decide, I hope your chioces bring you peace.

[coco46]

nic:

I wanted to add that;

1. I never matched with K's aparents (now, of course, her parents) until after the birth. My choice, & only because I'm a habitual procrastinator.

2. Our adoption did not start as fully open. We exchanged pics & letters thru the agency until K was over a year old, then exchanged ID info by mutual agreement. In the early 90's, this was extraordinarily progressive!

Just a bit more food for thought.

[banjo]

Hi there, I have been up and down on an emotional seesaw of closing my open adoption for about three years. Most of why I feel that way is because i actually want to establish a closer realtionship with my 13 year-old bdaughter and I'm frustrated that that's not happening. She does not seem to want visits without her amother. She never, NEVER has ever asked me anything about the adoption - NOTHING. I wonder why I am bothering?? I recently pushed for and got a visit with her and her four year-old half sister but my bdaughter was SULLEN during the whole visit and my youngest has never spoken of her in the two months since! (the little one wanted the visit in the first place).

So I have this long history with this bdaughter but no connection. After the visit with the little sister, amother said that we should go back to only three visits a year.

Since I had my second child, contact with my bdaughter and her family has reduced - which is not my wish. It's what the afamily want. I get the feeling they think - well you have your own family now so you don't need contact with the afamily anymore. They don't want me to see my bdaughter's little abrothers and I doubt my parents will see her this Christmas either. WE agreed in the beginning to have three visits a year. I've always had more visits. But now that has got less and less. Why? I don't know really.

The amother says that the boys got upset after they saw me because they did not see their bmother and hence they cut that contact with me. But then she was going to bring the youngest boy to the visit with the little sister??? Go figure? I think the amother just wants it (me) to go away. I think that she has her family and wants it to be "normal". She seems to talk the open adoption talk but no longer wants to put it into practise. I think she thinks if she makes it too hard that I will go away. She was putting the resonsibility of the relationship on to my bdaughter but she's still to young for that.

So I'm just a mess about it all and often think that if I stopped contact that I too could get a good head space and more focus on my own life. I'd like to email my bdaughter but am afraid to ask as I don't think the amother would allow it. I do know that my bdaugther is a full on teenager who is angry that her mother will not let her go out as much as she wants and she thinks that I'd let her do more things. But although she threatens this she Never rings me to discuss these things. I feel that I don't have a role and it's all pointless.

I throw my hands up in the air in frustration. The only good thing is that they are sticking to the 3 visits - but it's not enough for me. I think our relationship would grow or fizzle after some one-on-one time. ya know...we'd find out that as two individuals if we can establish a friendship or if it's pointless and we should just be relative strangers...and move on with separate lives.

By the way I don't tell anyone about being a bmother - I stopped doing it years ago. People do NOT understand unless they are part of the triad. When people ask me how many children I have I say "hubby and I have one child" That's the truth. I have two children but I only have one with my husband. No one has ever picked up on the subtle difference of my response.

Perhaps your time as an educator has come to an end and it's someone elses job now. I think many of us have done our time in that role so somewhere along the track we will have made a difference.

I think that I have ranted a lot ...sorry. This is a great thread. I'm so glad you posted. lol Banjo

[79nic]

Thanks for your post, banjo.

It is so so nice to hear from someone who "gets" it. That's exactly it... what is my role? And if Marie and I don't have any connection, what's the point of me being there?

I have written the letter to Marie's aparents. My hubby and my parents read it and all think it is good, respectful, non-emotional, etc. They all say to send it. So far, I haven't. So far, it's enough to have written it.

I'm sorry to hear about your bdaughter's parents' behavior. It's just so wrong. I'd like to go on a tirade about openness being legally binding and ethics and morality, but... guess we've all heard that before, and have the same thoughts, so I'll just shut up now. But I am very, very sorry that they are trying to inch you out.

For now I am sticking with it. The best visit I ever had with M and her family was this summer, the week of her birthday. Elise (dd I parent) and I went alone. Not having my parents around was GREAT. I love my parents, but sometimes it is hard to always have them along.... my mom tries to speak for me (trying to be nice cuz she knows I'm so shy), but it makes me feel like a little girl, and then I seem to regress emotionally. My dad is the opposite, very out-going and so he can fill up the whole time talking politics or bicycling or camping or traveling with M's dad. Hard to get a word in edgewise around him... and he is very, very good with kids, so he's always rough-housing with Marie and Maya.

But the visit without them was different. Got to talk alone with D and Y, and without my dad there, Marie actually came up to me and asked me to read her a story two different times and cuddled up next to me.

So maybe I need to just ask for another visit without my parents around.

As for educating... I have given up to some extent. All the new girls at my retail job don't know I have a birthdaughter, and it feels fine to me. At my "real" job, well... everyone knows, but they are all adoption caseworkers... we work with older-child adoptions, so there is still stuff they don't know about voluntary relinquishment, but for the most part, talking with them is refreshing.. they "get" it more than the general population, that's for sure.

Oh, now I'm just rambling. Sorry.... Think I'll get off here for a while and go check out what's happening on Ebay (new addiction).

N

p.s. Anyone else read the thread on clothing allotments for kids in foster care? It's got me thinking... can people donate clothes to public (county) agencies for foster kids? I would like to do this. At my retail job I can get brand new kids' clothes for under $2.00 a piece sometimes... often even winter coats.... do you think I could just pack up a bunch of clothes and drop them off at a county agency? And btw, I'd need to remain anonymous.... because I work professionally with county caseworkers, I think anonymity would be good... Anyone ever do this?

Nicole

[79nic]

Talking to myself... not sure what anyone can say, or even that I need anyone to say anything...

It's been a couple months and I'm still utterly drained of energy, can't focus... now I can sleep, but at odd times of the day...

I noticed this week that when I look at Elise, I don't smile anymore. I can't believe I'm admitting this on a public forum, but all I see when I look at her is a lot of work. I have this desperate feeling inside me that I made mistake in having her.

Meanwhile, she loves Matt so much, I almost feel superfluous. He is clearly the preferred parent at this point and... oh god, now I'm crying. Right in the middle of work.

That's it, I'm going home for the day.

[spaypets]

(((NIC))). Sounds like depression -- that cold you have probably isn't helping. Maybe you should go see your doctor and figure out what's going on.

[79nic]

Thanks spaypets...

Ok, deep breaths. Still teary but under control. ALMOST got out of the office without anyone noticing something wasn't right... (At least getting to make my own hours means they're all used to me leaving at strange times anyway.)

I called the psychologist I saw while pregnant with Marie. Have an appointment for first week of January.

Matt is having the opposite experience these days, he's a bit hypomanic IMO. He's got multiple projects going all at once: he's writing a book, he's composing a song (and no, he's in no way a musician), he's creating databases at work that no one's even requested of him, and he's writing poetry. Plus he talks non-stop (not at all like him.) He worked 50 hours last week, up from his typical 35, and is staying up till 1:00 am and getting up at 6:something. He keeps sending me installments of his book to read and asking me to listen to his song (I am also NOT a musician) for feedback... and I love him so much, and am happy for him, but it's exhausting to keep up with him.

As for Elise... the first few months after she was born I couldn't wipe the smile off my face. Everyone commented on how this was the happiest they'd ever seen me. So this is scary. Well, at least I have a husband to help out with caring for her when it's too tiring.... although I'm sure letting him do everything isn't helping her to love me any better.

[michellemartin]

Nicole, I get that way after being really happy, then its a huge low... times where I cant even work I'm so depressed also. Hasnt happened in a while, now that I know what's going on with my head I can help myself better when I start to get into a low cycle. And yeah, having someone with tons of energy right next to me while I'm depressed... I'd get frustrated!

[sonata]

Do you want to hear an adoptee's two cents worth?

I am from a 60's closed adoption and I absolutely believe that closed adoptions are WRONG. Wrong for everyone involved. I hope that closed adoption will very soon become a thing of the past. It was a social experiment that was a complete failure, IMO.

Having said that, let me comment on your situation. It seems clear from your posts that you are depressed because of your conflicts about your b-daughters open adoption. I personally don't have any experience with "open adoption" but I have 42 years experience as an adoptee and FOR ME, this is way I wish things would have been:

I was perfectly happy growing up with my Mom and Dad and extended family. I didn't want or need "another" mother in my life. Especially as a child, I think I would have found that somewhat frightening and confusing. (Heck, since I've been reunited with my b-mother nearly 3 years ago, I find it frightening and confusing now sometimes!)

What I DID want was having answers to my questions about my birthmother and adoption at the times in my life that I needed to know. In other words, I always knew that I was adopted and that was fine. But when I got to be about 12 years old, I wanted some more details (which my parents wouldn't give me). When I got to be 18 or 19 I actually wanted to know WHO my birthmother was and WHY I was given up. I wanted to know my ethnic heritage and my family history. But I still didn't want "another" mother. My Mom will always be my Mom.

To be perfectly honest with you, I think that the most contact I would have been comfortable with as a child would have been maybe a card on my birthday and Christmas. I didn't necessarily want to meet her or know her. I just wanted to know the truth and the details as I grew older. But that was denied to me even as an adult and I spent 20 years searching for the truth. No one - no adoptee - should ever have to do that!!

I guess what I'm trying to say is, please let yourself off the hook here. "Open adoption" is a very broad term. To someone like me it simply means that the information is there when and if I want or need it. In fact I thought your idea of giving the a-parents all your contact info along with a "letter of explanation" to your daughter is perfect. That is EXACTLY what I would have wanted. And it probably wouldn't have been until my early adulthood that I would have pursued it.

If you choose to go this route, I honestly think it is FOR THE BEST for ALL OF YOU! I don't know anything about your daughter's parents but it is just possible that they give you so much information and encourage so much contact because they think that is what YOU want. In their gratitude for you choosing them to parent your child, they want to be sure that you are never pushed aside or left out. If that is the case, I admire them for that. But perhaps if you make your feelings clear, that you WILL ALWAYS LOVE Marie but you need to get on with your life and let them get on with theirs, they will understand (and possibly even be relieved!) Of course you don't want to CLOSE the door and SEAL it shut. Just step away from it for a while. Let your daughter grow up with the security of her family for now. Mother the baby you have at home. You will reunite with each other when the time is right. Be honest with the a-parents about exactly what you want (a letter and picture once a year, or whatever) and let them know that you are "there" if they ever need you.

I hope everything works out for you. Surely once you have resolved this the depression and sleeplessness with get better. Goold luck.....Sonata

[79nic]

Still wondering about donating kids' clothes to county agencies, for foster kids.... Anyone know anything about that?

sonata,

Right now I sort of wish you were right, that Marie's parents would be relieved if I went away.... but I know they wouldn't be. They'd be like Regina: angry and upset. They'd let me do it, but they'd be sad.

Y was a potential birthparent counselor as an intern in college. At the time, the agency she was with did not really do open adoptions.. .only semi. She used to tell the p-birthmothers to GO TO A DIFFERENT AGENCY if they thought they'd ever want more than just letters/pics.

She also has a friend who is a birthmother. Her friend's bchild's aparents (ya with me? LOL) are closing the adoption. She has expressed utter disbelief to me that they would do this, not just because of the impact to her friend, but more because of the impact to their child...

She speaks at the agency Marie was adopted through and urges p-aparents to forget about their comfort zone and think instead about their children...

Yes, I know she means it when she says she's glad I'm around.

I know what the right thing to do is... it's to keep going. To keep going... but to somehow strike a balance so that the sad thoughts don't consume me and prohibit me from loving Elise fully.

Hoping my former psychologist can helpt with that. With balance. We will see.

[coco46]

Hi Nicole,

You might want to consider talking to a good, or even decent, Internal Medicine doc. Talk to him or her about how you're feeling and ask about medication.

BEFORE anyone crucifies me for suggesting this, I've been on medication specifically geared to me for over two years now, and it's made a big difference in how I feel.

Nicole, I was especially struck by how alike you and I are (in my opinon, of course) in that we're introverted and we seem to deal with relationships in a similar way. I get exhausted in dealing with many of the kinds of "loving" relationships that others seem to get with ease.

My doctor has been kind and respectful, and let me just say, that many of my anxiety and fear based problems have been eased, at least a little, and at most, have been nearly erased, by medication therapy, and I've never tried talk therapy as an adult. Frankly, I doubt its benefits for me, although I know others have had great success with it.

To be fair, I am lucky to have one of the best doctors in the industry. If your doctor seems reluctant or makes you uncomfortable, I don't want to make you feel like you need to go forward with anything that's not gonna work. However, I do want to stress that especially if you're trying other avenues that aren't working for you now, like traditional therapy, maybe a little aggressive reaction can go a long way.

Depression and anxiety are real disorders. Panic attacks are real physical illnesses. These can be debilitating to the sufferer in a real and physical way. It can be devastating, as it has been recently to me.

Nicole, I don't want you to think I'm trying to diagnose you. I'm not a doctor, therapist, or any professional. But some of the things you're describing are so similar to my symptoms. I just wanted to let you know what worked for me, although we are different people, and my solutions may not be your solutions, of course. Also, don't be afraid to tell your doc that the medications they're giving you aren't working. I went thru 3; there are literally more being discovered every day. If you don't feel better in 2 weeks, tell them. If ya feel worse, tell them RIGHT AWAY.

I hope you're not offended by any of my message here; I only want to help if I can.
Take care,
Coco

[79nic]

Coco,

Not offended at alll.. just absolutely touched that you wrote.

Can I ask a personal question? If you don't want to say or would rather pm that is fine...

What medications have you tried?

I've been through Wellbutrin, Depakote, a very brief period of Prozac. None of those worked.... wellbutrin helped but gave me such bad stomach aches that I started feeling mentally bad just from feeling physically bad all the time.

Carbatrol for a week in the psych ward (there, now you all know how truly crazy I am)--that just made me so dizzy and sleepy I couldn't even walk a straight line.

And I HATED my psychiatrist. I mean, truly hate. He is awful. My OB made him come visit me at the hospital, after E was born, and hubby hated him too after meeting him then, so I know it's not just me.

Guess he's made me a little gun-shy to try anyone else. Maybe I just need to hear success stories.