[Rainbow mom]

For what it is worth and not wishing to argue my point. It is much easier to leave a window (open adoption) open than it is to open a closed one (closed adoption). There are many types of open adoptions and only one type of closed adoption. If you have an open adoption and (god forbid) your grandchild needs genetic information to recieve proper medical treatment the chance of the child getting the treatment is better.

Also If your daughter is sure she wants to relinquish ask her to fill out information about herself that her child will want someday. Maybe a scrapbook with: (ideas)Fav color, music, height, talents, eye color, pictures of your daughter growing up and while she is pregnant, haircolor, maybe a letter explaining why she relinquished and wishing the baby happiness. As an adoptive mom it comforts my boys that I have "things" from their previous life. Our one son has a well worn blanket his first mom gave him and a book she wanted him to have. He doesn't always have these things but when he wants them I get them down and we talk about them.

I wish you and your daughter well. What a life long choice she is making for three or more people.

[NCGirl20]

I am a birthparent also.

Let's begin with being straight... No one has any right to tell your daughter what she can or cannot do regarding her child.

If she wants to see, hold, feed, breastfeed, change, bathe, or take care of the baby entirely during her hospital stay, that is her business. If you try to pressure her into doing something she isn't comfortable with, she may resent you later for doing so.

While it's nice to be able to choose for our children what we think it best for them, unfortunatley, when they become parents themselves... we can't always make the decisions for them.

I am also going to agree it would be better to leave openness involved for the future. You may regret not being able to do so later... Ask your daughter what SHE wants. Please don't just think of whats best for you.

This is her child. Not yours.

[Missy M]

[quote]Originally posted by NCGirl20
[b]I am a birthparent also.

Let's begin with being straight... No one has any right to tell your daughter what she can or cannot do regarding her child.

If she wants to see, hold, feed, breastfeed, change, bathe, or take care of the baby entirely during her hospital stay, that is her business. If you try to pressure her into doing something she isn't comfortable with, she may resent you later for doing so.

While it's nice to be able to choose for our children what we think it best for them, unfortunatley, when they become parents themselves... we can't always make the decisions for them.

I am also going to agree it would be better to leave openness involved for the future. You may regret not being able to do so later... Ask your daughter what SHE wants. Please don't just think of whats best for you. {B}
****************************************
This is an excellent post as are many others here and I just want to expand on the above.
As a former RN in a very large hospital in Tx please know that while no one can tell your daughter what to do with her baby legally, what they can actually do is another story. When a young (teenage) mother delivers at the hospital I worked in and presents her plan to place the Social Services Dept is notified and if the mother is felt to be wavering in her decision they try and determine how much contact is appropriate ("allowed." ) The art of persuasion works well in first time moms with no experience, no mentor, and with the post partium hormones kicking in. I have heard things like "Oh Honey, you don't want the baby to see you all teary-eyed and sad; it makes the baby upset too; just look thru the window, don't try and hold him / her now. Or you know you made the right choice months ago, don't back out now, think of the waiting parents. Or breast feeding isn't a good idea, he may have problems with formula later if you do...( a big lie.)
I posted to say that as parents she'll need your support now more than ever. She'll need someone she can trust to make sure her rights are protected; someone who will listen to her and not the "professionals" who have various motives and ideas. Please be there for her.....Best wishes Missy

[snow princess]

Hi

First I hope that your and your daughter are able to talk about all that is going on - it sounds like you are and i'm sure that has to be helping her.

One thing I wanted to comment on was your comment:

"Our thoughts that this would make it easier on daughter and help to put "it all behind her"."

As a bmom who was told to "put it all behind me and get on with my life" I have to say that is one of the worst things you can say to any bmom regardless of her age. You never put it all behind you. This child is going to be a part of your daughter for the rest of her life regardless of her decision for open or closed adoption.

As you are talking about adoption I am assuming that the birthfather has agreed to relinquish his rights or is that not necessary in the state you live in for minors? I'm not familiar with that.

Another question I have is :

Has your daughter received any counseling from a professional counseler who has dealt with bmoms and their issues after placing?

I agree 15 is young and your daughter must have been so scared to have waited so long to tell you about her pregnancy. It sounds like she is blessed to have parents who are so loving and concerned about her and her welfare and trying to lookout for her. So many do not have any family support.

I think that counseling is a must for any bmom before placing, they need to realize that you cant have a baby, place it for adoption and walk away like it never happened. I know there are some bmoms out there that close it all out of their lives but I cant imagine how they do that.

Has your daughter stated why she wants to place her baby? Is she considering placing because it is what she thinks you would want her to do? Does she have options if she wanted to parent? Would you and your husband be supportive of her and your grandchild if she choose to parent? Many areas have programs for young moms in their schools where they can finish high school - children are in a day care at the school - the moms (and dads if parenting also) interact with their children all day long. In addition to their schooling they are taught parenting skills. They are also given xtra tutoring if needed and encouraged to continue on to college. They are helped to find programs to help young single parents to be able to succeed in life. Programs like that are available and if they are not then you can find assistance thru local social services etc.

Basically Make SURE that your daughter is made fully aware that this is HER baby and even if she places her/him for adoption, she is always going to have that child in her heart and mind.

Just so she knows that even if someone else raises her child, she will most likely always wonder how he/she is, very few bmoms "forget or put it all behind them"

I think it is important for you adn your husband to know that too and to have some counseling as this is your grandchild and if your daughter does place, you will also have emotions to deal with yourself along with your daughters emotional needs.

I truly wish you all the very best of luck in going thru this most difficult emotional time.

[prolife4life]

You have gotten a lot of wonderful advice! Our daughter's bmom was 13 when she got pregnant as a result of rape. She did not know the man and she was being coerced into abortion. Her mother and many other family members recommended abortion and the abortion clinic doctor and counselor were applying pressure on her to abort. They told her a lot of misinformation, like that no one would want a "bi-racial rapist's baby" and that at 20 weeks, the baby isn't formed yet!!! She was told she would die if she didn't consent to the abortion (she had a totally problem free pregnancy and delivery) and she was not given information about her oprions, fetal development, or the abortion procedure...including risks. She was so scared...afraid she would die having a baby no one would even want! Our daughter was nearly aborted twice...once at 20 wks where her bmom was in the stirrups and the "procedure" had begun and again at 21 1/2 weeks. The young lady got some information and decided on the day of the 2nd abortion attempt that she wasn't going to abort.

As I mentioned, our daughter's bmom was 13. Her mother had gotten pregnant at 17 and had made and adoption plan...even had the aparents at the hospital. She told me the staff kept bringing the baby girl in to hold and they bonded. She couldn't relinquish the baby and took her home. Then, reality set in. She knew in her heart she wasn't ready to parent, but she couldn't "give up" the baby...for a year. When the baby was a year old, the lady relinquished her daughter. She told me she thought it would be horrible for the hospital to have the baby in the room constantly with the bmom. (The hospital staff said that constant visits is difficult for many bmoms...they were particularly upset by her age and thought she should have been on the floor with the younger patients and that having her on the maturnity floor surrounded by mothers and babies was too difficult, but they couldn't make that call). Anyway, the 13 yr olds mother did think that seeing and holding to say "good bye" was appropriate. Then she was born and suddenly, the "grandma" changed her tune. If you met this woman you would think that what she did could have been a form of punishment for the pregnancy and for not following through witht he scheduled abortions. The bmom didn't want to hold the baby and just looked at her at 1st, but then her mom took the baby and said, "Here, you hold your baby. You earned it!" And from then on, that woman ran the show! She hadn't really been involved withthe process (luckily the young lady had a helpful, older sister who was VERY supportive and AMAZING!!!). Well, that baby roomed with them for 2 1/2 days and the "grandma" did everything. The bmom laid in bed and had the baby placed in her arms. She talked ont he phone (duh...she is a teenager! LOL!!) she watched TV, she visited with friends who came to see her and the baby. The day she was to leave the hospital, she had a HORRIBLE time! Very painful, lots of tears and she thought she may want to "try" parenting for a week or a month, despite starting her freshman year in high school in a week. She had no idea of what was required to even get the baby home, food, clothes, doctor, childcare, etc. She had not planned to parent and didn't have anything prepared to do so. Her mom was very odd that day. She claimed she didn't want her to bring the baby home, but she said she thought it might be easier to try it like she had done to see how hard it is and then maybe she would relinquish eventually. I think it was just painful for her to leave her 1st grandchild especially after she had placed her 1st child. It was an emotional nightmare for all of us! After 5 hours of tears at the hospital, we all went home. It was painful for us to know that she was in such agony and that our joy in recieving our daughter was causing such pain. We also were in pain with fear that we would lose the baby we desperately loved already. We were 2 women...2 mothers, one young and one older sitting on the hospital bed, holding hands and crying together. I didn't want her to have regrets, but we all knew what she had planned and wanted for her future and for her daughter's future. She realized she wasn't ready to be a mommy yet...not the way she wanted to be and not the way she wanted for the baby. Her mom refused to speak to us when she left the hospital becasue we had become "those people who took my daughter's baby!!!", but this young lady had the strength to, after some alone time to say her "good-byes" and "I love yous" and after she sent the baby tot he nursery, come out to tell us good bye and we hugged and cried and cried and held each other and we promised to do our best to give her daughter the life she wants fro her and to love her with all that is in us and to tell her about her bmom (of whom we are just so amazed and impressed...what a strong, couragious person!!!).

There has been a lot of pain for all concerned following placement because she wasn't sure she could do it. She was experiencing all the pain of her loss and of post pardum and she refused counseling (which I would HIGHLY recommend!!!). We have a semi-open adoption where she emails us and we send pictures and update letters, cards, etc. Sending the pictures seems to be helpful as she can see the baby and see that she is healthy, growing, cared for, LOVED. Like others have said, it eliminates much of the mystery.

I think that seeing and holding the baby is good. My fear is of the unrealistic hospital setting. The baby sleeps a lot and others are carring for you and the baby...you actually get to sleep! You don't have places to go, expenses, worries like you do in the real world. We really wanted this young lady to be able to have a childhood. Finish her education, have a social life, get her drivers licence and 1st job...spent the money on CD's, clothes, make-up...not formula and diapers. Go out with friends and not worry about a sitter. Not worry about welfare and daycare and finding a pediatrician and getting transportation to the doctor for the constant vaccines and checkups required that 1st year! We were ready for that responsibility and we welcomed it. We were prepared emothinally, financially, and materially (crib, carseat, etc). Yes, she "could" have done it, but it would have required a LOT of help...help that wasn't there and it would require HUGE sacrifice of youth and fun and possibly education. Not that placing a child for adoption isn't a HUGE sacrifice, but there is a difference...know what I mean?

Well, that is my story. Sorry it was so long.

Blessings as you go through this time together. I'm so glad she has you to love her through this.

[bromanchik]

Originally posted by prolife4life

We really wanted this young lady to be able to have a childhood. Finish her education, have a social life, get her drivers licence and 1st job...spent the money on CD's, clothes, make-up...not formula and diapers. Go out with friends and not worry about a sitter. Not worry about welfare and daycare and finding a pediatrician and getting transportation to the doctor for the constant vaccines and checkups required that 1st year! We were ready for that responsibility and we welcomed it. We were prepared emothinally, financially, and materially (crib, carseat, etc). Yes, she "could" have done it, but it would have required a LOT of help...help that wasn't there and it would require HUGE sacrifice of youth and fun and possibly education. Not that placing a child for adoption isn't a HUGE sacrifice, but there is a difference...know what I mean?

The bottom line is that once you have a baby your life is forever changed, no matter what you decide. This girl's innocence is gone. Most birthmoms would tell you they would rather have time with their child than CD's, clothes and dates. There is a difference, but birthparents make the sacrifice in not parenting their children. In shouldering the pain and grief that is inevitable with that loss. We sacrifice youth and fun in placing because grieving is the hardest work you can do.

[Sharon]

Unfortunately, that's true (what Brenda said).
I too had ideas about ... well, not exactly clothes and makeup and social life and dates, but about getting on with my education and such after the baby was born and relinquished. It didn't work out that way for me, either. Not saying it can't work out that way for anyone. But in my case, I was just too hurt and too sad to go back to being an ordinary teenager. I married the birthfather and had another baby the year after I relinquished, and began my adult life. Going back to being a teenager was simply not an option. My innocence, for whatever that's worth, was gone. That does not mean I've never been happy, never had any joy in my life; I have. It just means that that part of my life, the carefree part of being a teen (overrated in my opinion, anyway) was effectively over once my child was born. I think it's unrealistic to expect anyone to go through such an experience and come out the same, ready to buy some CDs and hit the shopping mall with their friends (if that's what they ever did in the first place). There is a lot of grieving involved in the process of relinquishing a child. There is a lot of on-going worry and stress involved in being a mother, whether or not you ever see or hear from your child again. I think someone already mentioned this, but many, many teenagers who relinquish their children are pregnant again almost immediately. I've read statistics about this, which I won't bother to share, because the last time I shared these statistics they were shot down and I was told that "anyone can twist statistics to prove whatever point they want to make". Suffice it to say that many, many teenaged birthmoms are pregnant again within a year to eighteen months after placing their first child.
I'm not saying this happens to everyone. I think one way to avoid it is to acknowledge that your life will not be the same after relinquishment, and to get some counseling to work through your grief, your issues, and your feelings about being both a mother and a birthmother.
JMO, ~ Sharon

[LegallyKim]

To Sacramento1, the original poster: You have gotten so much advice on this, I was just wondering how you felt about everything now? PLease keep us updated on what your daughter decides to do, and how everything works out. My prayers are with you.

Sharon, I am interested in the statistics that you are aware of regarding teenagers who place their baby for adoption and then become pregnant again. What figures do you have? I am keeping in mind that not everyone will agree that those are accurate, I was just curious. I had a child 3 years after I placed my son for adoption, still not ready to be a parent, but determined that "no one was going to take this child away from me" and it worked out really well. I did have to put off college for a couple of years, but I managed to work, got to college and take care of my beautiful daughter who is 13 now. Of course, this time I had a lot of support and help from my family, which was not available when my first child was born.

[Kindreds]

Dear Sacramento - I want to give you some insight as to what may happen years down the road. My parents portrayed themselves as supportive, but I was 16, very young and trying to please them because I had made a horrible mistake, having sex without enough protection. My parents gently coaxed me towards adoption. I did not realize what they were doing at the time. They essentially offered me no options, therefore my only "choice" was adoption. Years and experience have now caused me to understand what was done to me. I played the nice daughter for many many years and to meet me you would still think I was a nice daughter. But I have essentially cut my parents out of my life emotionally. I moved just far enought away that I could do this. They rarely see their grandchildren (those that I raised once I was properly married) I have been married now for 28 years, raised 3 children and my husband's family is now my family. I will never forgive them for not being there for me - they got what they wanted, a cleansed daughter - and I emotionally cleansed them from my life in return.

[prolife4life]

Oh, I did not mean to imply that I thought she would just return to the "carefree days of being a child"...I know that isn't really possible. I know she has been forever changed by this experience and that pregnancy (whether you parent, place for adoption, or abort) has lasting effects, particularly emotionally. Having 2 biological children I can some-what imagine what she is experiencing, but I don't KNOW how she feels...I can only imagine what it must be like and I ache for her!!! I cry and pray for her daily and beg God to grant her peace and strength now and as the years pass. We are trying to make this as barable as we can and we are trying to do what is in our power to soothe her.

What I meant was, she had plans (like all young people do) of college, dating, etc. The day we were in the hospital for the delivery she was saying she wanted to have the baby and be out by Friday so she could go to a local festival. We all knew that was unrealistic. We tried to explain that she wouldn't feel up to a carnival right away. How could she understand that? She was thinking like a child. Then, suddenly, she was a mother. I know this is agony, but much of the reason for placing was so that she could go on and try to salvage her teen years...they ONLY just began! She was just about to start high school. She wanted to still be a kid...as much as possible under the circumstances and we wanted that for her too. We enjoyed the prom, getting a drivers licence, hanging out with out any REAL responsibility...the only worry was getting homework done on time. Yes, she has the added worry of "wonder what my baby is doing now"...but we try to keep her informed so that she doesn't have the constant mystery and she knows was love her. Plus, part of placing is to try to provide the child with the kind of life you want for him or her...particularly if you feel you are not ready or are not inthe position to provide that life. She looked at her life and what she wanted for herself and what she wanted for her baby and chose adoption as the best way to accomplish both goals. VERY mature for a young lady! That is difficult for adult women to do...a completely selfless act! But, as mothers know, once you become a mother, it stops being all about you and what you want and what will make you happy. It is about what you believe is best for the baby. She decided adoption was best for the baby. We are all hoping she can finish her education and go out with friends and with boys. Do the fun stuff without all the responsibility associated with raising a human being. She shouldn't have to deal with all that stuff...she has been through enough. Had she decided to try parenting, she would have had our support (although it would have been very painful for us), but she did not. She had a life before the pregnancy and she still has one filled with promise and joy. She can do the things she may not have been able to do if she had the responsibility of parenting. We love this young ladya nd we want onlythe best for her. We want her to be happy and fulfilled and to enjoy her teen years...they are so special. We hope that in some way, this decision to place will help her to fulfill her dreams and achieve her goals. We hope that our efforts to send letters and pictures etc help (at least in some way) to ease the pain of relinquishment and seperation.


Oh, BTW, the pro-life community has long quoted statistics concerning "replacement pregnancies" where women who abort get pregnant again shortly after their abortion. They feel that they want to replace the aborted child and then the problems that led them to feel they needed to abort the 1st time compell them to abort again...that is partially why the rate of women having a repeat (2nd or greater) abortion is about 50%. I don't doubt that this phenomenon occures with women placing children for adoption as well.

[Dixierae]

I have sent you a privite message on this matter when you first posted and I have read all six pages of what bmoms think and the amoms, I have agreed with most and was upset by others, but this is life welcome to it right?

Well I belive everything is up to the young girl your daughter
why not let her bring the baby home and be there for her, watch your Grandchild only when shes at school or at a part time job, then if she desides its to much let Her deside what to do

You can be there to help her or not I just wouldnt want to be the one who hurts her in away she may never recover from, or you eirther, just my thoughts, and if I can ever help in anyway, baby things clothes hey just let alot of us here know we are here to help each other, may God keep you and let your daughter find some peace of mind,

[bromanchik]

Originally posted by prolife4life

Oh, BTW, the pro-life community has long quoted statistics concerning "replacement pregnancies" where women who abort get pregnant again shortly after their abortion. They feel that they want to replace the aborted child and then the problems that led them to feel they needed to abort the 1st time compell them to abort again...that is partially why the rate of women having a repeat (2nd or greater) abortion is about 50%. I don't doubt that this phenomenon occures with women placing children for adoption as well.

There are many birthmothers who find themselves pregnant within two years of placing. No statistics are really kept on it, but I would not be surprised if it was 50%.

Where did you get the statistics on abortion?

[loveccl]

To be honest as usual I didn't really read much of what you all wrote.

My reply is to the soon to be birthmother in hopes that she may read this.

I was 15 and knew the day I found out that adoption was the only decision I could make. Funny thing is that I never really looked into to it until people started wanting my baby or knew someone who did. I was about 7 months pregnant when I went throught an agency and found the couple. I can imagine you sitting in class with a handfull of resumes tucked in your binder. Not really sure who the right couple would be to guide your child through life. I was there and to this day I know that the hands on my stomach from my class mates and the feeling I got walking down the halls were more than just moments in time. They are forever carved in my brain. I thought life would go back to school dances and getting my drivers license. It didn't, I had my child in the summer got back to school and everyone just made me feel like I was crazy. I was hurting and I didn't need to pick up my freaking boot straps and move on with life. I needed to greeve and know most of all that my child was safe, because only that would validate the decision I made. My dear you are a mother and its your decision to become a birthmother. I want you to know its ok to follow your heart and ask for pictures and an ocassional letter. Just get it legal, because even the sweetest couple will want to move on with the baby and play as if you are out of sight out of mind. Don't feel crazy if your at a high school football game and get lost in thought about your baby. Honestly, even with a year of coulseling I dropped out got my GED and went to college. You grow up real fast and people treat you as if your 15. Funny at 25 I feel 45. I wish you all the best and if you know in your heart that becomming a bmom is right for you then just remember we are all just a click away.

Darcy

PS. To the mother, protect your daughter and make sure all her request are in writting. She will need validation to know she did the right thing. Take pics of the baby, and help her see her decision and a positive thing for her and her child. I know your job as a mom is a little tough right now. Just asking us was enough to show you want whats right for her.

[prolife4life]

bromanchik,
Basically, according to to the information I have , up to 33% of women who abort develop an intense longing to replace the aborted child following the abortion and 18% succeed within 1 year of the abortion ("Follow-up of Patients Referred for Termination of Pregnancy"; the Lancet, "Aborted Women Silent No More" by Reardon; and "Psychosocial Sequelae of Theraputic Abortion in Young Unmarried Women" by Wallerstein in the Archieves of General Psychiatry vol. 27.).

As for the repeat rate of abortion, generally the 18% who succeed in a "replacement pregnancy" still find themselves witht he same problems that "forced" them into abortion to begin with. Many of those pregnancies end in abortion.

According to Leach in the article "THe Repeat Abortion Patient" in Family Planning Perspectives, S. Fischer's "Reflections on Repeat Abortions: The Meanings and Motivations" from the Journal of Social Work Practice, and B. Howe's "Repeat Abortion: Blaming the Victima", American Journal of Public Health...
There is an increased risk associated with having a prior abortion due to a "conscious or unconscious desire for a replacement pregnancy and increased sexual activity post-abortion. Subsequent abortions may occur becasue of conflicted desires to become pregnant and have a child and continued pressures to abort...aspects of self-punishment through repeat abortions are also reported".

Joyce says in "The Social and Economic Correlates of Pregnancy Resolution Among Adolescents in New Yorkby Race and Ethnicity: a Multivariate Analysis" in the Am. J. of Public Health and Tietze says in "Repeat Abortions-Why More?" from Family Planning Perspectives discuss the phenomenon where women who have one abortion are 4 times more likely to abort a current pregnancy than those with no abortion history.

The stats concerning the repeat rate of abortion being about 50% is from the Alan Guttmacher Institute, the research arm of Planned Parenthood...our nations leading abortion provider.

According to the CDC ina published list of stats from 1996, "About 54% of the women were obtaining an abortion for the first time. Approximately 17% of the women had had at least two previous abortions (Table_12)." The article additionally states" The percentage of women who were obtaining an abortion for the first time decreased from 75% in 1974 to 54% in 1992 (Table_12) (19)."

I hope this is of some help to you and answers your questions.

[prolife4life]

loveccl,
GREAT post! Thanks so much for sharing! My prayers are with you and your child.

Take care!