[WVMOMof2]

I'm not sure how to do a "poll" but I need some input on the best way to tell our child she is adopted.
She is 21 months old and was placed with us at 2 months from an abuse/neglect situation. Once she was with us for 6 months we were told her bio-mom was pregnant again and the new baby would be placed with us. 7 days after the new baby was born we were told he was being placed with his paternal bio-grands (no relation to my daughter). I sent the clothes and diapers I had set aside for the new baby to his grandmother and disassembled his crib. The grandmother sent me a Thank You note with a picture of the new baby enclosed and asked me to pray for them. The CWs recommended and the judge ordered they be placed separately. There were "compelling reasons" that it was in our daughter's best interest to be raised by us and it was "the law" that the boy had to be placed with the grandma. The court ordered a separation of siblings and you all know they have to have "compelling reasons" to do that. It is not taken lightly.
As an adult adoptee... how would you like to find out about a bio-sibling born after your story began with your adoptive family?
1.) Being told you were adopted from the beginning (age 3-4), then being told about bio-siblings and given the right to meet them when you are verbal and old enough to ask for yourself (age 5-6-7-8 depending on you) while your APs maintain contact with the grandparent of the half-bio-sibling.
2.) Being told you were adopted and about siblings between the ages of 8-11 when you were old enough to understand?
3.) Being court ordered to have visits with your half-bio-sibling who was 7 months old when you were 21 months old and have court ordered visits every 2 weeks until you were 18?
4.) Being told you were adopted and bio-half-siblings woven together from the beginning through stories and pictures (age 3-4) and, then, being encouraged to meet the bio-half-siblings when you were ready.
5.) Want to start your "own story" with your new family who loved you and wanted you and you know you were adopted and had siblings and contact them in the future at your discretion as an adult?
I know hiding it would be harmful and she should know her "story"... but, if she has been with us since she was 2 months old, came from abuse and neglect, the new baby was conceived after she was placed with us, the bio-mom's rights to my daughter were terminated before the new baby was born... what is her story?
This is difficult for me and I appreciate any feedback you can provide from the prospective of an adult adoptee.

I'm sure there are other options I am not thinking of. Since my daughter is non-verbal and this is a confusing subject... I want to make sure she doesn't have identity issues or problems with emotional development because she is told too early or too late.

[Dickons]

Originally Posted by WVMOMof2

1.) Being told you were adopted from the beginning (age 3-4), then being told about bio-siblings and given the right to meet them when you are verbal and old enough to ask for yourself (age 5-6-7-8 depending on you) while your APs maintain contact with the grandparent of the half-bio-sibling.

I was told early so I have no idea when, just that I have always known and with the story of how my adoption came about...to me that was the best way to handle things.

Not sure about biological siblings...think I started thinking about whether I had siblings when I was a pre-teen/teenager. Different because you have the info so not a clear cut answer from me.

2.) Being told you were adopted and about siblings between the ages of 8-11 when you were old enough to understand?

Way too late to tell a child about being adopted in my opinion...would have caused me to question everything else...was it all a lie?

3.) Being court ordered to have visits with your half-bio-sibling who was 7 months old when you were 21 months old and have court ordered visits every 2 weeks until you were 18?

Seems pretty strange to me...but I am a closed era adoptee. Perhaps the younger adoptees will have a different view.

4.) Being told you were adopted and bio-half-siblings woven together from the beginning through stories and pictures (age 3-4) and, then, being encouraged to meet the bio-half-siblings when you were ready.

The meeting of the bio siblings when ready (and mature enought to understand reality).

5.) Want to start your "own story" with your new family who loved you and wanted you and you know you were adopted and had siblings and contact them in the future at your discretion as an adult?

Somewhere in the latter stages of the teen age years or as an adult...but then I am old...

I know hiding it would be harmful and she should know her "story"... but, if she has been with us since she was 2 months old, came from abuse and neglect, the new baby was conceived after she was placed with us, the bio-mom's rights to my daughter were terminated before the new baby was born... what is her story?

Her first/birth mother was not in a good place and needed to find her own way before she would be able to be a good parent??? I don't have any good answers and have wondered how parents will deal with the issue in cases like yours.

This is difficult for me and I appreciate any feedback you can provide from the prospective of an adult adoptee.

I'm sure there are other options I am not thinking of. Since my daughter is non-verbal and this is a confusing subject... I want to make sure she doesn't have identity issues or problems with emotional development because she is told too early or too late.

Just never lie to her (but use age appropriate information based on her maturity)...and I think it is okay to tell her she needs to be older if she asks for more details...

Kind regards,
Dickons

[suzie3309]

Hi There

i love your thread and i think your going to make wonderful parants by facing these issues a lot of parants dont.

i can only answer your questions by my expirience. I am one of four children taken from our parants from abuse and neglect. I was too young to remember any of this and eventually i was adopted with my younger sister where as my older siblings were seperated and placed in different homes.

i would agree a lot with what the previous response was. my advice is to make a book, call it a life book. remembering that your child would have had a life before she was placed with you. include any pictures, like the baby picture. and make sure that you go through it when she is 2 or 3. explain simply there was originally a different mummy and daddy and sibling but that now she is part of a different family. yours. she wont question this as the parants we are raised with are the parants that matter, not the biological ones. just re assure you love that child and it changes nothing. if asked why just say that the original parants were not able to look after her so she became yours. you dotn have to go into details. the younger you do this the more normal it is. PLEASE do not wait until she is older as this can come as a massive shock and cause all sorts of bad feeling. I always knew i was adopted as this is what my mother and father did for me. I also regularky saw one of my siblings growing up. not the other.

now here is the big problem. how to tell your child the truth about her pasdt when she is older and starts asking questions. I would wait until she is conciderably older and able to handle that information. my parants found it too difficult to tell me the truth (my mom never wanted to see me hurt and it hurt her too much). therefore i found out the truth the hard way and it hurt even more. you will know when your child is ready and when that time comes you may find it too difficult. however be honest. share any information you have andd the most important thing is support regardless of her reaction. this is what it all comes down too. you may want to write a letter. find out as much information as you can and keep it all together and maybe if she askes questions let her go through it and be with her. sometimes there is little you can say that can make it easier. There is no EASY way. you really need to be truthful at all times. you do not want your child thinking her situation was something that it was not. if so when the truth does come out it is a lot further to fall. if abuse was involved you dont want her necassarily trying to locate them. you may get a councelor to help you through it.

There is no easy way of facing these issues. I want to tell you that the only thing thats going to ease the blow is knowing shes loved no matter what the past. that you support your child through the good and the bad and let her set the pace. you will find it easier when shes older as she will ask specific questions. answer direct questions with direct truthful answers. Above all make sure you are supported also as this can be hard on the parants too. My mother just shut down she couldnt face my past anymore than she can.

siblings maybe keep infrequent contact as she grows up. that way she will always know she has a sibling and there will be no issues arising from finding out later and the betrayal that comes with that. dont make it a big issue. these things will come up when you least expect it. when you have to go to the doctors and they ask for family medical advice...etc...

sounds to me like she is one very blessed child and i am sure that you will find your way together as a family. face issues head on and come out stronger and closer the other end. Adoption is a journey that brings a family together and thats what it is all about. Family. some people, like myself, were not born into good situations, however things happen for a reason. your child came into your life because there was a child who needed a loving home with parants and vice versa. as long as the truth shines, even in the darkness, it will light the way!

Good luck. I admire you for taking the time to seek advice from those who have been through it. no one truly knows until they have been there.

god bless you and your family!

Suzie

[suzie3309]

... regarding what her story is, you just told us. she came from a family of abuse and neglect and was removed into your care. thats her story.

Please be careful with this one. done mix words. my mother did that and it has taken a long time to deal with the reality of what i found in my files as well as the fact my parants could have been honest with me.

abuse and neglect is a reality nothing to feel ashamed about or hide. its a sad fact but hers non the less. i think you have worded it perfectly. i only wish i had been told that. i dont think the betrayal i feel from my AP will ever go away for not telling me the truth when i asked. dont make the same mistake.

maybe in your life book start the first few pages of the album with biological siblings pic and any pics you may have like grandmothers note..then fill the rest with your new pictures of the family you are now. I had my first christmas card from my adoptive parants in there.. its a treasured possesion that shows me where i have come from and where i am now..

good luck

[legal]

I would tell her age appropriate info, but always tell her she is adopted from early on. If there is a bio sibling relationship, I would insist that your other child be included in that as a sibling. Otherwise, it seems unfair to exclude him. Of course they would be siblings through honorary adoption, or whatever terms you wish to use as long as it is honest. Every 2 weeks is pushing it, just because it is intrusive into real life. IMO
I had 4 full sibs and 10 half sibs that I met as an adult. I had a brother growing up and he is my "brother" not my bio brothers, but I really LONGED for a sister and could have had 7 growing up. I kind of resented missing that opportunity.

[WVMOMof2]

We planned on option #1, but they told us if we don't agree to a post-adoptive contract with visits with this and all future half-bio-sibs every 2 weeks until she's 18.... they will "reconsider her placement". We are her parents and my 6 year old son is her brother. We wanted to tell her in age-appropriate blocks and answer her questions honestly and it could only strengthen our bond with her and build trust if we tell her about her siblings and facilitate the meeting when she is ready.
Doesn't seem fair that they can dictate how we raise our child after the adoption is final. We are wonderful parents and she has an amazing life with us. They should give her a couple years of security and give us a couple years of family autonomy so she doesn't get confused and have self-image or security problems. We know what is in the best interest of our child. We will never lie to her and only want what's best for her. We find their option insulting, intrusive and unrealistic. I appreciate the input from adult adoptees because you didn't just read an article... you've LIVED it. This isn't about me.... it's about my girl.... and you've "been there, done that". Not even a parent of an adoptee can know how it truly affects the adopted child. Thank you for advice and support.

[WVMOMof2]

Also, the judge said we are her parents and the other grandmother is not my daughter's family when he ordered the seperation of siblings 3 months ago and two weeks ago he assigned my daughter a new GAL because I'm pretty sure he thinks the visits at this point/age are ridiculous too and I was fighting this battle alone. In 18 months her old GAL never came to my home, never met my husband, never saw my daughter and I together and hadn't seen her in over a year.
Hopefully between the new GAL and the reasonable judge, we can get this ridiculousness resolved.

[ripples]

I'd prefer option 1. BTW - there are several books about talking to adopted children about their adoption. If you search for 'talking about adoption' on online book sites, you can find quite a few. I've heard of a book called, "Adoption Parenting: Creating a Toolbox, Building Connections" that's widely circulated among adoptive families here in Brisbane, Australia. The Parenting section of this web site also has lots of resources that may be helpful.

I'm not sure on what grounds the CW and the judge decided that it's best to separate the two bio-siblings?

[WVMOMof2]

We were willing to adopt the boy. We have a 6 bedroom 4.5 bath house and 2 children. The boy's grandparents were unsuitable for 2 babies in their home because of many factors .... their house, their age, etc. They told us for 5 months he would be placed with us and we found out 7 days after he was born that he was placed with them. We were shocked. We thought it was the law that sibs, even half-sibs, had to be placed together. We would've been happy to give them grandparent visits with the baby boy. I guess they thought they were doing what was in the best interest of each child. But, when they placed they apart and, then, did a seperation of siblings.... that implied they would be raised seperately. We were blind-sided. It is extortion to tell somebody " do this our way or we will take your child". It's a horrible, helpless feeling to know you don't have the choice to explain these complicated things is small, digestible, age-appropriate blocks so as not to confuse her and cause her self-image and identity problems. If there are studies showing it can be beneficial and other studies showing it's harmful.... shouldn't the decision be made by the adoptive parents? Especially since they are so young they don't have their own voice and we know their needs better than anyone. Adoption is supposed to be a happy experience and this experience has full of lies, threats, and harrassment. Now I know why so many children are perishing in Foster Care while international adoption is flourishing. Thank you all for your understanding.

[momraine]

I am very glad to hear that you have at least changed your mind about waiting to tell your daughter she is adopted as you had originally planned. It shows you are willing to learn. My ten year old daughter knows about her birth siblings, though she has never met them. She is not traumatized by knowing that she has them. She wants to meet them, but they live in another country. I asked a boy who is in my Sunday School class, (I teach the tenth grade class) who is adopted about his thoughts on this. His siblings were adopted by other people in the same town, they see each other often, and go to the same school. He has no issues with being adopted or with his siblings living with someone else. (he also has adoptive siblings who live with him) He says he has never had any issues with it. He is one of the most mature, stable kids in that class. He is on honor roll at achool and participates in many activities. He said he would have been angry at his parents if they had kept his siblings a secret from him or not let him see them. For him, he does not remember being told he was adopted or about his siblings, it was just part of his life for as long as he can remember. Just like he learned early on who his next door neighbors were, who grandma and aunts and uncles and cousins were. It was no different from him. He said he was more confused by when he tried to understand who two sets of his cousins (one maternal and paternal) were not related to him and could have grandparents that he did not know. He says he gets it all now. He said he thought every other week might be too much, but suggested once a month or if they don't live close a few times a year at least birthdays and holidays. Anyway, that's the advice from a 16 year old boy.

[WVMOMof2]

We have decided she should know of this and any other siblings as we tell her "her story", but right now at 7 months and 21 months the visits are unsuitable and the frequency is unreasonable. They need to finalize the adoptions and let us, as parents, decide what's best for our children. They already placed them seperately and did a legal seperation of siblings... they never lived together and the boys grandmother is paternal and no relation to my daughter. Visits every two weeks are necessary for siblings (blood or non) who had a close bond before they were removed and seperated. To even talk about "reconsidering placement" now is too late and at this point is cruel. Especially when it's in medical journals all over the world that from 18 months until when a child is verbal is the WORST time in a human beings life to experience trauma. The study from July 2009 showed that everything from a car accident to losing a parent to witnessing a violent crime and so on is stored as feelings and manifests itself as panic attacks, psychological disorders and behavior problems because the brain remembers, but has a hard time translating the experience from "baby brain" to words without intense therapy. I had a medical researcher tell me about that when I told her the CWs said if they moved my daughter right now she would be fine in a couple weeks. Simply not true. I have done a lot of research. Especially on post-adoptive contact this last week. Our family needs to continue to strengthen it's bond and she needs to continue to feel secure and 100% of our family. I knew the dangers of her knowing about her adoption too soon, but we now realize the dangers, such as losing her trust, of telling her too late. It will be part of her story and when she is ready we will encourage her and begin with indirect contact to make sure it is safe for her to meet them. We don't need to be some Lifetime kidnapping movie. And we would need to prepare her if he is MR. I the grandmother and I should remain in contact through eMail. I think the kids should meet when the are both ready. If one is ready before the other we can exchange photos and stories. If they back off and let it be her choice .... she might be 6 or 7 when she asks to meet him and they will grow up knowing each other. I did not know this either, but the post-adoption book said that psychologists agree that holidays and birthdays socially and emotionally "belong" to the adoptive family. I didn't even think about that.... but, I still think at birthday parties would be a good way to have direct contact later on. Pushing these visits too soon will make her resent
him. What 6 year old girl wants to play with a 5 year old boy every 2 weeks without choice? If it's her idea... it's cool to her. Nobody likes to be told what they have to do. It's not like eating veggies... it doesn't have to be done right now. All I can do is encourage the meeting and
facilitate it when she is ready to keep/build her trust...
and always let her know how much I love her. If I didn't
love her SO much I would not be spending so much time,
energy and money trying to do what's best for her.
I have an attorney. We have a couple experts and a world famous psychologist willing to testify that my plan is in the best interest of my child. I am glad I've had an open mind and kept my daughters best interest in mind because after sitting through MDTs and hearing the disclosure from the adoption worker about all the abuse and neglect she experienced from the time she was in bio-moms womb until she was 2 months old.... I really didn't want any bio-family contact at all. I thought I was protecting her by keeping it from her and giving her a whole, new, beautiful life. It would be terrible to keep it from her and have her find out later. It would do more damage to her self-identity because she would think her whole life to that point was a lie and wonder what else I'm keeping from her. Articles help, but the advice I have received from adult adoptees in this forum and elsewhere has been more valuable and relevant. Thank you.

[legal]

I just wanted to reiterate the suggested idea of including your bio son in all of this, as we have our two kids.(one bio and one adopted) They came as a sibling unit, to any relationships created with the birth family.Now adults, they are buddies! Best wishes to you with your darlings!!

[momraine]

Can I ask what Psychologist you have testifying. I have a friend going through a battle now who has been looking for someone who would be willing to testify at her hearing.

[Hadley2]

I think the op needs to separate the issue of court orders from the issue of whether contact between these children, given safe and secure circumstances, now is beneficial or harmful. They are completely different topics and mixing the two will only yield unclear answers.

Now on the subject of contact, I know you are looking for adoptees' pov. Personally, I like to boil things down as clearly as possible, so I will put a few thoughts out there for them to answer:

You are asking whether or not adoptees think that contact between a 21-month old toddler girl and her 7-month old baby brother, she to be adopted by nonrelative foster parents and he to be adopted by or in the guardianship of his grandparents, would be beneficial or harmful to her. The birthparents are not involved.

What do adoptees think?

- Will seeing her baby brother now harm her?

- Will seeing her baby brother now be a good thing for her?

The op's position is that contact between the two children at this age would be harmful to the girl--that it would be "traumatic," "confusing," disruptive to her sense of identity and socio-economic class, and lead her, via a "self-fulfilling prophecy" down a disturbing path to the same sorts of choices and lower-class values her abusive, neglectful birthparents made.

What do adoptees think?

- Will getting to know her baby brother at a nonverbal age put this child at risk?

The op's position is that telling the girl in small bits about the biobrother from now until it might occur to her one day to ask to see him, sometime after age 6, will make their relationship more natural, easier, less traumatic, and less risky for her--that starting a relationship with a brother after preschool age would be more beneficial than starting it before.

What do adoptees think?

- Will getting to know her baby brother later put her less at risk?

The op has a son who lives with her and the girl and will be the girl's legal brother when her adoption goes through. The op seems to be afraid that engendering a relationship with the biobrother now somehow diminishes, invalidates, denies or sends a mixed signal about the very real bond that already exists between her son and foster daughter.

What do adoptees think?

- Is the girl's relationship as sister to her adopted brother put at risk by spending an afternoon with her baby biobrother?

Finally, the op has mentioned elsewhere that if she waits for her daughter to ask to see the boy and then she, as parent, grants that wish, that that act will strengthen the bond between parent and daughter because the daughter will appreciate that her mother considered her feelings and granted that wish.

What do adoptees think?

- Will the daughter be grateful? Grateful to have been kept from her brother at a younger age, grateful to have been given his company at a later age? Both? Neither? One or the other? Will that gratefulness stand the test of time or will the day come when she will think to ask "why wasn't he a part of my life sooner?"

[WVMOMof2]

My "position"? This isn't a debate. There is psychological evidence that it could be harmful or it may be beneficial. Nobody knows for sure how it will "turn out". If I tell her early enough and she knows about him all of her life and it's her choice when to meet him. If they had ever lived together and bonded and been seperated... of course they would still have contact to preserve and maintain that bond. But, trying to court order a bond is ridiculous. We are her family. There is a vast area of difference between her knowing of him at 3 or 4 .... and court ordered visits every 2 weeks.
All I'm saying.... call it a position if you will... is that if psychologists say it COULD be harmful or it MAY be beneficial... as per parents we should be able to choose until she is old enough to make that choice for herself. What is the harm in just telling her early. She may choose to meet all of her half-bio-sibs (there's only one for now) when she is 5 or 6.... then, they grow up knowing each other... it was her idea, she trusts us and feels a closer bond with us for facilitating the meeting... and it's HER idea.
In cases of abuse and neglect experts recommend closed adoption. I know there were a lot of open adoption fans on the other forum. I am going against everything I believed before to have a semi-open adoption with indirect contact for now and hopes for more later for my daughter's sake.
I came to this board for answers and support. Between this board and speaking with psychologists and experts and other adult adoptees... I am making the choice that makes the most sense in my daughter's case, my daughter's life, my daughter's future. Would it hurt now to have a couple "playgroups" now? Probably not, but all the psychologists and experts say it will confuse her... it may cause identity issues... and what she needs right now is love and STABILITY and permanency.
Thank you for all of those who showed support and gave honest advice and did not judge.
I know there are people who believe strongly in open adoptions and I respect that. But, if I'm at a table full of Mormans and I'm a Catholic... will I back down from my beliefs because everybody else at the table tells me I'm wrong? I moved to the adult adoptee forum because the other forum was persecuting me and I was getting private message from adult adoptees saying they were afraid to post their comments on that board because it was full of "open adoption zealots" who were being "cruel" "unkind" "they don't understand" and so on. I know the background and details and this is not a case for direct contact just yet.
One adoptee told me my plan was "beautiful and thoughtful" and "best suited for [my] daughter's needs.
I found my answers. I listened with open ears.
To the best interest of the child....