[shadow riderer]

I reunited with my bdad 2 years ago. In the past two years we have met face to face six times. WE had our initial face to face where we met for the first time. Bdad’s wife came with him. Though the time with my dad was great, his wife did nothing but try to cause problems. Next my husband and I went to their home and spent a week with them. We live in a different part of the country from them. Again, time with bdad was great, while his wife did her best to be difficult. The next two times we met, my husband and I met my bdad, and, of course, his wife, at extended family members homes. Those visits were also in different parts of the country. We spent a week with each family, so that I could get to know the rest of my extended family. Again, time with bdad and family was great in spite of the difficulty his wife added to the situation. My Bdad has been to my home on two other occasions for a day or two, without his wife, but not without a lot of grief from her. Knowing that she gives him such grief, and it’s not a personal thing about me, she doesn’t want him to have anyone other than herself in his life, I have never put any pressure on my dad to come see me or asked him to spend time with me without her. I have left him with an open invitation to visit anytime, and have tried not to cause him any extra grief with his wife. Thanks to the added degree of difficulty my bdad’s wife has put on our relationship by trying to cause problems and come between us, he and I have both said and done things that have hurt each other. However, we are still hanging on, and I have been forced to set some boundaries where his wife is concerned.

My bdad says he is coming to see me in a couple of weeks. , but considering the situation with his wife, I can’t be sure until he calls me to tell me “he” is boarding the plane. His wife is, all of a sudden, feeling ill. She always seems to feel ill just before the time my dad plans to spend with me or anyone else in his family.

I’ve been considering this idea for some time, but not sure about it. I thought I would see what you guys think. It seems to me that over the past two years, the time my dad and I have had together has been, of course, just meeting, or surrounded by others. It has also been over shadowed by the dark cloud that is his wife, even when she did not come with him, she called to cause him grief. (You just have to be there.) My Bdad and I have had no time, in which, we could just be ourselves, him just my dad, and me just his daughter, without outside interruptions or interference from others. My husband is great, but he has always been with us as well. Considering all my dad and I have been through in the past two years, I was thinking it might be beneficial to both of us to take a long weekend, just the two of us, go somewhere “fun”, and just be “father and daughter”. We could just be ourselves without the pressure of always having to worry about the other people in our lives, good or bad. Make some memories for just the two of us father and daughter, like we would have done had things been different way back when.

What do you guys think? Should I bring this up with my dad if he comes to visit, or if not, over the phone? Do you think this could help our relationship, or am I just trying to recreate a past that should have been but never was? I know this would cause my dad some difficulty with his wife, but after the past two years, and the problems she has caused, and the fact that I’ve done by best up until recently to make things as easy for him as possible, that I’m not asking too much? Am I being unrealistic in thinking that we could be “just father and daughter” after not being a part of each other’s lives for 40 years?
What do you all think?

[Juliana13]

Okay, forgive me for jumping into your forum - I am not a adoptee, but your thread hit a heartstring... You may not ever be able to be father "just the two of us, father and daughter, like we would have done had things been different way back when." But assuming you both want it, you CAN still create and nurture your father/daughter relationship. You can have a warm, loving close father daughter bond that grows and strengthens form this time forward.

And I have to agree with your thoughts about interference. Even if your husband is the perfect support in every way, I think it would be a huge boost to your relationship with your father to have some alone time with him. You need to get to know each other on a more personal level. (And time away from his wife goes without saying. Of course, if you are going to continue to strengthen your relationship, at some point you have to win her over, or at least be at peace with her. She IS his wife.)

You could plan a long weekend, go somewhere with a combination of things to do and quiet time. Maybe somewhere with an amusement park or something you'd both enjoy sharing. An old car show, or county fair (that's where my dad and I go). Somewhere you could take pictures, and reminisce about later. And where there are things to look at and talk about if conversation needs some help. Maybe even ask your husband to clear out one time your dad visits so you can be alone in your own home if you wish.

You deserve to have this relationship, and if you both want it, do what it takes to grow it.
Good luck!

[mlassi]

I think some alone time is what you both need. I have been fortunate that my bdad's wife is not threatened in any way with me. When my bdad came to visit, I made sure that we met alone and we also had some late night talks when everyone else was in bed. Good luck!
Mary

[rainmon]

It does sound like you need to walk a little softly at this point, and maybe just start by suggesting to first spend the day together alone and see where that goes. jumping into the whole week-end thing right off the bat when there seems to be so much turmoil in his life already could back him into a very confused corner in his life. it IS like you would be pitting you against her to see what choice he would make and it does not seem quite fair to him.
also in normal father & daughter relationships I really don't think that it is all that common for father & daughters to go off for the whole week-end alone together...but then I have never been an only child. but I suppose in divorced families it might be more common when there is not a wife involved anymore. but even if you did go away for a whole week-end together, would not the wife still want to call him...or would you then also insist that she not make contact during your week-end?
so.... it seems it could get a bit complex, and hurt feelings could get more out of hand then before. and I really don't think you want that, do you? I'm thinking maybe the daytrip to the zoo, museum, hiking,.etc...like was suggested would be a good start and end the evening with dinner and a movie.
since you know how she is already, do you really think that she will want to be left home alone all week-end by herself.....
I'm thinking not. I 'd start out with suggesting just one day,
if I were you.

[kune]

Jana
I agree with you that you definitely need some space - away from the other close family members. We often say or read on these forums that unless someone is personally involved in adoption, they cannot truly know how emotional and fraught with fears the reunion process is. You and your bdad need an opportunity to be able to talk honestly and frankly on your thoughts and feelings without wounding your spouses. SO if you have to kidnap him for a day alone.....do it. Every Dad and daughter need time alone!!! How far apart do you live? I love long distance driving with my bson.......... sort of captive in a vehicle and all sorts of thoughts and topics are discussed. Perhaps he could fly to you and you could drive him home and spend time getting in the wife's good books. Or....maybe you could both meet at the half-way point and spend a day and a bit with each other. I think you may have a problem with a whole weekend if the wife is possessive.

Work on it!! Unless you ask you will never know if it's possible.

Fingers and all body parts crossedXX

Ann

Ann

[shadow riderer]

Thanks everyone. My Bdad and I live too far apart for a one day trip. As far as his wife goes, I’ve done everything I can think of to “win her over”. The nicer I have been to her the more arrogant, rude, and difficult she becomes. She does not want to like me or get along with me, or anyone else in my Bdad’s family. I have never in my life met a more difficult person to deal with. They are not happily married, and my Bdad is fully aware of the problems. He even warned me ahead of time that she would probably try to cause problems. I’ve kept my distance from her to avoid her baiting me for trouble, which she does when my dad is not around. I’ve not put any pressure on my Bdad about spending time together or any such thing so as to not make his life more difficult. Because of that, I have gotten my heart stepped on and broken on several occasions. I’m not asking my Bdad to choose between his wife and myself. There should not be a choice like that. I would walk away tomorrow if he asked me to. His wife is the one making him choose. Most of the time I feel more like his mistress than his daughter. That’s not fair to me. I have set some boundaries because of this. She is abusive, rude, and has embarrassed me on numerous occasions in public with her behavior. My Bdad understands all this. Other family members have also drawn lines with her. I’m not asking him to choose his wife or me. I’m asking him to stand up for himself his daughters, and our relationship. (He has another daughter, my half sister, whom he hasn’t had a relationship with for several years, long story, but they are also talking now.) He has to hide to even call us on the phone, because his wife gets upset if she knows he has talked to us.

Maybe this is a little selfish on my part, but after 2 years of trying to not cause him more grief, and getting hurt in the process, I need to find a resolution to this problem for myself. I think my Bdad and I can work this out, but he will have to set some boundaries with his wife. She is not going to accept me or my sister as any part of his life until he sets some boundaries. Because of the numerous things his wife has done and said to cause problems, she has brought this on herself. This isn’t just a little jealousy on her part. This is a personality disordered person.

I’m just suggesting to him that we spend some time together to build a relationship of our own. There is a lot of work to be done here for our relationship to work. I’m thinking I could live with a weekend maybe twice a year for the two of us to build “our” relationship. After everything that has happened over the past two years, I don’t think two weekends a year is an unreasonable request to get to know my father. I don’t think a “normal” person would not understand the need for my Bdad and I to have that time, but I don’t believe my Bdad’s wife can even accept that. I’m not asking him not to talk to her during that time. I wouldn’t do that to my husband either. Just asking for that time alone to get to know each other without pressure and interference from others. Later, after some time has passed, my relationship with my dad is a little more stable and settled, if she can accept that, maybe we can try to start over. I’m not giving anyone ultimatums or saying this is how it has to be. I’m just trying to find some way to make this completely crazy situation work for all of us.

Sorry for venting. Really I want this to work for all of us, but at this point, after all that has happened, I sort of feel like my Bdad’s wife is his problem to deal with. You can’t win over someone, who doesn’t want to be won over. As I said, the choice my Bdad has to make isn’t between his wife and I. The choice, as I see it, is to stand up for himself and his relationship with his daughters.

I have decided to get some counseling to make sure I don’t make decisions and judgments based on my emotions. Not looking forward to it, but this is all starting to affect me physically. Time to do something about it. Thanks you guys. Wish me luck, and forgive me for any thing that doesn’t really make sense, I’m not at my best right now. These are stil just ideas to work with.

[mlassi]

I dont think wanting to spend one or two weekends a year together is a lot. His wife is really the issue. Can you set up times for him to call or you to call him when she isnt around? I try and set times for talks with my bdad mainly because the kids tend to bug me when I am on the phone. Due to the time difference (three to four hours) my bdad likes to call while "on the road" too. Privacy isnt the issue its time for us. Since he knows how she is he may be willing to set up "phone" times. The important thing is not to let her ruin things. Imagine how his life would be with only her in it! Good luck.
Mary

[shadow riderer]

Things are not going well. My Bdad and I just had that line drawing conversation I knew was coming, but didn’t want to have. He has been telling me for months he was coming to see me “alone”. We needed to talk. He just called and told me that his wife wanted to come with him to visit me. I wasn’t surprised to hear him say that. I knew something was up, but honestly, I figured he just wouldn’t come. Though I was angry, I stayed calm and just said, “Why?” He told me she wanted to make sure I knew she wasn’t really the shrew he says she is. She apparently thinks he has turned me against her. Not true. She did that all by herself, not that I’m “against her. I just choose to not tolerate her continual bad mouthing, complaining and rude behavior. Uhm, my opinion of her has never been based on anything he said. My opinion of her was formed by her actions, etc. Really, and , if that were the case, why hasn’t she picked up the phone in the past two years, and called me to straighten things out? Wouldn’t that be the mature way to handle this? Why does she want to “come” and tell me the truth now. For two years she has done nothing but try to come between my Bdad and I. I’m still here, so now she says we need to make this work? All of a sudden she has had a change of heart? Give me a break!

When I asked my Bdad what was really going on, he told me he either brought her with him or got a divorce. BS!!! That’s just BS! She’s giving him an ultimatum? I assume that I am supposed to let her come into my home, be nice to her (no matter what she says or does), and tolerate her so he doesn’t have to deal with his problems? I don’t think so! This stinks, and I can’t do that! I shouldn’t have to do that. This really stinks, and enough is enough.

Nope, don’t think things are going well at all. Keep me in your thoughts you guys. I don’t know what will happen next or what to do. I don’t want to lose my Bdad after all we’ve been through, but I’m not seeing much choice here but to walk away. There was no resolution to our conversation as to whether or not he would come. I’m think of just telling him we need to take a break and hold off on anything for now. This really, really stinks.

[snuffie]

Aw, I'm sorry that things are not going well. As difficult as it may be, backing away for a while might be part of a larger solution. Your bdad has many issues with his wife he needs to work out. There really isn't anything that you can do about the structure and conflicts in their marriage. And that seems to be the underlying problem - not anything to do with you. Your bdad's wife seems to have many problems and has found one more outlet (you) to cause havoc.

See what your dad has to say the next time you talk and it may be time for an honest conversation about what all of this turmoil is doing to you. While not closing the door on the future and your relationship, it may be time to take that step back and give your dad the space he needs to solve the problems he is having with his wife.

My very best wishes to you.

Snuffie

[rainmon]

Wow ! things have changed a bit....sounds pretty intense on his side. and I understand the back bone thing for your Dad...but he will have to build that on his own....you can force that it will have to come on his own time ..... the way I see it, if you stop it now, the trip, the relationship, the reunion....then it is all about "her" her coming with him. and if you would truly like to see your Dad, and get to know him.... why sabotage it. it could still work. get your husband involved. you need to enlist his help. like lets say, if you all went to a mall and your husband said to (stepmom) "Mary, I was wondering if you would go with me to such & such store and help me pick out something nice for my Mother, Great Aunt,Grandmother, whoever, .... and then I'll buy you lunch and then we could all meet back here in three hours, that way you and I can have some time to get to know each other and dad & daughter can have some time also....

That way it's out there, that Dad & Daughter need some time and "He" would like to get to know "her" also....

maybe later....the guys could find something to do for a short hour and the two ladies could have a little time to go to an antique store or try on clothes at a ladies boutique or something... just to test the waters....
or it does not even have to be at a mall...it could be at a large zoo or amusment park where you could split up and meet back in a couple hours. if your husband got involved to make her feel wanted too....then your time with your Dad won't make her feel left out.
I know its not the week-end that you want....but at least "she" could get used to sharing him in small doses. and if it is all asked openly and verbaly in front of everyone and not behind her back I don't see how she could say" No" ....and then you or your husband could say I hope you don't mind sharing him just a bit while he's here? and even thank her for her kindness and patience with this new relationship.
maybe she could even get to like being the good guy for a change.
but if you change your mind now about "his" coming, because "she" is coming....then you will be cutting off your own nose to spite your face.... so to speak.....because you "want" to see him...so don't make it about her. make it about "him"
if you want to see him....right now it looks like you will just have to be the bigger person here....other wise your only other choice I guess would be to stop the visit, & the reunion and then........I guess...... "She Wins"

[wilted rose]

Hi Shadow, good to see you posting. Honestly, I had a similar experience with a bfamily member, until I realized I wanted so badly to have this person to myself. So much lost time, to make up, you know what I mean? Sure, I made every effort with their significant other, and their children, but what I really wanted to do was sit for hours and hours and talk, and do things we should have been able to do years ago, when we were kids... however, once I realized I could not recapture what was lost, but rather build new memories which included their life now as it was, I noticed a significant shift. I began to include their family, which made them less on the defensive, and I even found myself with that alone time, with that bfamily member I so craved and not feeling like it was me or them. Shadow, that would be a no win situation. We have to ask ourselves sometimes, again even in reunion, are we unknowingly testing our bfamily members?
Sincerely,
Rose

[rainmon]

oh... and I like the driving and talking idea that someone else mentioned here...when our reunited family got together we took "two" cars on a fun road trip...and everyone took turns driving and switching cars so everyone got a chance to have private quality conversation time with everyone else.
also at home if your husband asked , Hey Mary, lets go to the grocery store and pick out something for dinner, some fresh greens for a nice salad and something to grill for dinner tonight. then your Dad and you could have some quality time in your own home alone.....especially if your husband also gets side tracked at the video store picking out a movie for later that evening and inlists her help too, to make sure it is a movie none of you has seen before.
your husband could really be a big help in helping her to not feel left out, maybe she will just need that extra attention from him or another family member of yours in order for you two to have your time also. it could work.

[shadow riderer]

Oh you guys, thanks so much. I really appreciate everything you are suggesting and telling me. I see the point you are all making, but I’ve already tried all this. Nothing works with her. My husband has done the things you suggested. I’ve had alone time with her, trying to win her over. She pried into my personal life, told me things about my Bdad that no daughter wants to know, and baited me for disagreements. It is definitely a no win situation with her. Snuffy is right about her.

This isn’t just about me having “alone” time with my Bdad, or me not wanting her to come. If only it were that simple. This is a woman who is jealous of anyone she perceives as taking my Bdad’s attention away from her, including her own grandchildren. My Bdad hasn’t helped the situation either. He says and does whatever he has to say and do to avoid her rages, and keep her pacified, even at the expense of hurting others he cares about.

It’s not about her being a part of things. She doesn’t want to be a part of things. She wants to be in control. It’s about them not dealing with their issues and putting me in the middle. I want no part of their dysfunctional marriage. My Bdad expecting or asking me to sacrifice my own self respect, and tolerate his wife’s bad behavior, because he wants to continue avoiding his problems his just wrong. I know my relationship with my Bdad is at risk here, but, right now, to me, it’s like him being a drug addict and telling me that if I want a relationship with him that I have to be a drug addict as well. I grew up in the type of difunction he lives in. I got away from it as soon as I could, and stayed away.

I wish it were just that simple that I could just be nice to her and make her feel special. I’ve done that on several occasions. I’ve put out the extra effort in consideration of her insecurities. In return she stabbed me in the heart, and only became more determined to cause problems. My Bdad saw this, knows this, and has done nothing. My Bdad has also knowingly stepped on my heart to avoid problems with his wife. This visit was an effort, I thought, on both my Bdad’s part and mine, to sit down and find a way to work this out in a way we can all live with. I’ve also considered her coming might not be a bad thing. We could “all” sit down and discuss this like mature, reasonable adults. The problem with that is that his wife is not a “mature, reasonable adult”. It would put both my Bdad and her on the spot though, and I don’t think either of them really want that. I’m not sure either of them could really handle that. So, I don’t know. I want to find a workable solution to this, but I don’t really know what that is. What I know is that all the games and BS has to stop. I don’t understand, considering the disfunction of their situation, why my Bdad and I can’t have a relationship without her in the middle of it. If we lived closer together, there might be an easier solution. The long distance between us makes this situation a litttle more difficult. She doesn’t like me (or anyone else), so why does she want to come with him? Why is him coming to see me for two days such an issue for them? This is nuts!

He did call me back yesterday. He told me he lovedme, but still, nothing has been resolved.

[shadow riderer]

Rose, I know what you are talking about. I realized that some of my feelings of wanting to be alone were me wanting that time we never had back. I know I can’t get that back, but it sure does hurt. Now, I just want some way to move forward without all these problems.

Hey you guys, I’m not pressuring my Bdad. I’ve left everything in his court. I didn’t tell him he couldn’t bring her, but I didn’t tell him he could either. I’m leaving the decision of coming, not coming, bringing her, not bringing her up to him. He knows how I feel, but I’m not drawing the line in the sand, yet. I just hope he does the right thing for all of us. Whatever that is.

[rainmon]

yes, thats probably best, sometimes it is better to just do nothing and just wait and see what happens. but boy ! she sure does sound like a handful !!! and I see why you try and keep your distance from her.
I sure hope things get better for you soon.