[julie23]

I have a question for adoptee's....

I was reunited with my daughter last may. I was not what she expected her birthmother to be.

She expected an alcoholic.... tooth missing... dysfunctional.... homeless birthmom... from whom she was SAVED.

She found a functional mother of three....living in a decent home in a decent neighborhood....

she found a mother who teaches sunday school... is the girl scout troop leader.... ADORES her girls.... goes hiking... camping.... takes the kids to museums and amusement parks.... lives in a nice home... and is extremely close to her daughters.

she found NOTHING she expected....

(I use the word found loosely.... she didn't search for me... I sent a letter that unexpectedly reached her.... I thought the adoptive parents would get it... but through a twist of fate... she got it.)

I am a non-confrontational personality... and after hours on these forums... I thought I had "learned" what to say and what not to say...

I was very careful...

well... she stopped answering emails or phone calls....

she insisted she wanted "updates" on our family.... which I kept sending....

after being reunited... and thinking that she wanted to develop a relationship.... I put photo's of her in frames and displayed them all over my home.

she is my precious daughter..... the one I had "lost" the one who i had desperately wanted.... but "they" told me I could not keep....

she is the daughter I had always missed... the daughter that I didn't know what she looked like...

It was utter agony living a life... where I KNEW I could sit by my OWN daughter on a bus and not KNOW it was her.

I cherished EVERY photo I had of her.

I put them in frames and put them right next to the millions of photos I have of my daughters.

but she doesn't want to be in our lives anymore....

we had a party last night... it was for my husbands work.... for all the people who work for him...

as she has not responded to contact in about four months.... I decided to take down all the photo's.

why should I have them up if she does not want us?

why should I have to be faced with judgement and condemnation if she does not want to be a part of our lives?

why doesn't she want us?

[aMarylandfamily]

Being the adoptive mom of a boy who was found and reunited with his birthfamily at age 18, I can speak from somewhat personal experience. Our son had a very difficult time deciding whether or not he wanted any part of this birthfamily who had abused and lost him and a sister so many years before ... but we convinced him to get to know them before judging them ... and he has had periods of time since where is involved in them and their lives and other times where he steps aside ... and it doesn't have anything to do with any particular situation or circumstance in motion ... it is just his way of handling it. They do experience a feeling of guilt and betrayal being involved with two families not knowing how to love two without hurting the other and hopefully her adoptive parents have, as we did even though with great concerns, opened their hearts to allow her to have both - she needs both ... but it will have to be when she is rady and hopefully you can share with her enough love to allow her space when needed and time to be close when she is comfortable with it ... and you will never understand what makes either time (hope that makes sense).

Regarding the pictures ... I cannot explain how weird it felt for me the first time we were in the home of his birthparents and saw pictures of "our boy" on the walls up to the age he was taken from them ... my first thought was "how dare they" ... but then tried to put my feet in their shoes and on our second visit took her copies of the photos we had received from his first adoptive placement which had disrupted and any that we had taken over the years and cannot explain their gratitude ... If I were in your shoes, I would pick a medium sized frame out and make a collage of the pictures you do have and then place a current one in a separate frame (if you have a current one) and place them in one of the spaces you keep family pics but not all the spaces and when asked about her be proud to say - I had a daughter years ago who lived away but has recently been reunited with us ... we hope one day she will be ready to meet the people in our lives who share our world. It will make her feel welcome without feeling overwhelmed.

Sorry this is so long ... and do hope it helps ... and always remember that for whatever reason you did not raise her ... you cannot change yesterday - you can only make today and tomorrow a brighter and better place to be for her and for you and your family ... with her and because of her ...

[abcg1977]

I have been in reunion about 16 months. I go back and forth between how close I want to be and not. I could go on for hours about that but, I won't. I have few pictures of my b-family up in my home but, it is hard for me. They are new and I don't feel good somedays seeing them some days I am fine. My b-mom just moved to a new home and has been putting up pic's of me. In the home she just moved from she had famed and put up a few. It made me feel good to know I had a place on those walls. I feel tho, like knowing they were there and removed would hurt so badly. Removed again from a family. But, if she is going to not be in your life I understand not wanting that reminder there everyday. But, keep in mind she is real and so is her hurt and so is her presence, somewhere. In this world and in you. She does have a place in the family does she not? I think if I were you I would leave just one. JMHO. She is your daughter still. If she had died would you put her image away completely? She is away, she may come back??? It would hurt me to know my b-mom would take all mine down, it really would hurt. But, I understand where you are coming from.

Good Luck Ang-

[julie23]

wise words... thanks...

I have a table where I keep a photo of my husband and I... along with an individual picture of each of my daughters.... also on the table I keep a small angel and a porcelain baby block... I lost two sons.... and those two pieces I received in the days after their deaths. (they died prior to birth). I have had her picture there the whole time and I think it would be appropriate to leave it there.... that is where I keep remembrances of all my children.

I received my first email from her today... and, of course, it was just what we needed.... "clearing of the air"... and it made me want to go put all those pictures back up...

it's not that I removed her from family again... it's just that she didn't seem to want to be a part of my family... Maybe the answer is that she IS a part of my family whether SHE wants to be or not...

you know how they talk about regression of the birth mother in a reunion... we supposedly go back to the age when we placed...for me that was 20....

It's actually kind of CREEPY... I think taking down pictures... was kind of a twenty year old thing to do... NOT where I am at today.... I find myself having disconnected thoughts about her... not being able to make good choices... it's like I AM 20 again sometimes.. and I dont' realize it for a couple days... and then pull myself together again....

it's really kind of bizarre...

thanks,
j

[shirleyville]

Just wanted to "mark" this thread so I can come back later this evening, Julie!! I want to respond, but am waiting on my God Daughter's mom to come pick her up!!
I will be back!
Hugs,
Sally

[shirleyville]

Okay....I'm back!! God Daughter is on her way home....all bundled up and sleeping soundly (I wish I could still be carried out into the night in my jammies, with a blanket and sleep thru the entire thing! ), and the spousal unit it in bed....so I have a few moments of free time!
Julie, I understand where your head was when you took the pictures down.....and I also understand where your head was when you said

I think taking down pictures... was kind of a twenty year old thing to do...

It's hard to always display "grown up" rationale in A LOT of scenarios -- not just one that sucks you into the "way back machine" the way this one has. Sometimes, that rationale just isn't there to draw from. Sometimes we have to do the things we want to do, just to do them.....and in that moment, you wanted those pictures down -- so you removed them.
No harm....no foul.
It's not as if she was standing there, and you ripped them from the walls, shouting "THERE -- I am erasing you from our family!!"
You took them down at a time when your were having guests....strangers.....into your home, and perhaps you weren't up to dealing with onlookers and their comments and questions because of the pain you were feeling from being "shut out". It's perfectly understandable.
I also think you will end up putting them back.....for many reasons....several that you mentioned here. The major thing being this comment....

Maybe the answer is that she IS a part of my family whether SHE wants to be or not...

She IS your daughter whether she is "playing fair" right now, or not. You have carried her with you in your heart all these years, and I think removing her permanently isn't something you want to do, no matter her actions at this point. She is SO young....and SO typical for her age.....and she obviously has a lot of "baggage" to sort thru in the next decade (and beyond) of her life. I know....it's painful, and at times, so discouraging, disheartening, and painful, that you have to step back and do a "reality" check -- but you're not ever going to give up on her. You never have.
I also don't think you want to send the message to your younger daughters that just because circumstances aren't "optimal", you are the kind of person that just "erases" someone from the family wall. I know you don't want them to think that if, as they move toward adulthood, and make some poor choices, or act inappropriately, or distance themselves, or do something painful, you will just remove them from that wall.....because you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you would never do that. You would never "give up" on them.....just as I believe you won't give up on your birthdaughter.

why doesn't she want us?

I, personally, don't think that's the case at all. I think she wants you all too much, and is so afraid she just can't allow herself to believe it all....to feel it all....to feel "safe" in it all. At her age, it's much easier to act out and strike out......she hasn't grasped the life experience to be able to process it all.
If I'm not mistaken, she's about the same age as you were describing yourself being "sucked back into"....an age where you find yourself (in your own words) "not being able to make good choices about things", and "having disconnected thoughts". The difference is, you have a lifetime of experience to draw from to understand those things....and she doesn't. She's doing all this for the first time -- you're on your second go 'round at 20!!
Hang in there.....
We are all here for you!!!
Hugs,
Sally

[julie23]

Sally... you have such wonderful insight... your words are a blessing.

You took them down at a time when your were having guests....strangers.....into your home, and perhaps you weren't up to dealing with onlookers and their comments and questions because of the pain you were feeling from being "shut out".

yes.... this is true... but then ... none of this reunion business is easy... it's complicated... and painful... and uncertain...

and I hate being forced back into the mentality of a powerless, insecure twenty year old... I hate it... because I am so beyond that....

I hate ACTING like a twenty year old....(even if it is the second time... which means theoretically I should be able to do it better!)....

and I hate NOT realizing it when I AM acting like a twenty year old...

My mother was bugging me last night about my daughter.. she wants to email her and develop a "grandmother" relationship (I have not allowed this.) And she kept insisting that my daughter would want this... and it was just like I was TWENTY again... but in this case, I HAVE the power with my mom... but I spoke to her in that twenty year old voice... "I'm not ready for this!"

There is no way in hell my mother is going to develop a "grandmother" relationship with my daughter... when she didn't choose that twenty years ago... when she made sure the baby had a DIFFERENT grandmother... and BEYOND that OLD argument... I don't have a relationship with my daughter... and no one else in my family is going to BEFORE I do... it doesn't make sense to me... it doesn't seem logical... the only relationships that I have allowed are those with her younger sisters... because I think she deserves that and so do they... they didn't ask to be separated...

thanks....j

[shirleyville]

Hi, Julie!!
Just checking in to see how you are doing these days!
(((WARM HUGS)))
Sally

[julie23]

hi sally,

thanks for checking on me.... I am around... not online much.... once we got rid of high speed internet, I discovered I truly hate dial-up...never works well....

but since you did check on me... that prompts me to ask a question that I have been wondering about for some time....

why is it that adoptee's often "claim" their birth siblings... as "sisters or brothers"... but not their birth mom as "mother"

I know that my own daughter considers my three girls to be her sisters and totally claims them as such...

but she doesn't claim me as the mother...

I even have a brother-in-law who plays for the NFL who she claims as her "uncle"... who by all rights, isn't ANYTHING to her.... not even a biological relation...

anyway... I often read adoptee's comments about how excited they are to discover they have siblings... and can't wait to meet them... but really don't have any desire to meet the birth mom...

isn't it true... that you cannot HAVE siblings without having a common mother (or father)????

sigh... I am glad you know my "black and white" tendencies... this grey area is difficult for me to understand... and I suppose, being the birthmom... I feel somewhat slighted in all this... Part of me wants to say..."guess what??? If I'm NOT your mom, they are NOT your sisters... and he is NOT your uncle."

it is just kind of complicated I guess....

j

[abcg1977]

Julie, Hi again. JMHO but I think we adoptee's sometimes find it easier to claim siblings, aunts, uncles etc. because in any family, biological or adopted, many times we have more than one aunt, uncle or sibling. In most families tho, well in reality we all have one mother. And, our's was changed (for lack of a better term) so to claim the first is like a denial of the second. You can claim 4 sister's without denying any. You can have 3 uncles or 2 aunts and that can just be on one side of the family. Add up all sides and you can have a whole bunch. But, to claim more than one mother reminds us very often we were once denied by a mother, makes us feel like we are choosing. And, quite frankly for many of us we are terrified to hurt our a-mother's and a-father's.

Trust me tho, when I say as an adoptee (speaking for myself here) I know who had me and I know who raised me and no matter what I call them, I know I love them both. To say the titles of mom and dad tho, well that is just hard.

I hope things are getting better for you and your daughter.

Later Ang-

[banjo]

Hi Julie, I too take my bchild's photos down then put them up again on a regular basis because I am hurt by her lack of desire to have contact with me. I know that it's something I can do - it gives me a silly sense of control. I don't care if I am acting like a teenager. Right now none of her photos are on the wall. I know she has huge loyalty to her aparents and i think our relationship is just never going to be easy because of this. So I am starting to wonder if I want to continue with it.

i hear you with your mother. I agree she can wait until you have formed some sort of relationship with your bchild - after all she was the adult at the time of relinquishment and she decided not be a grandmother. I hope you have heard from your bdaugher....of course I have not heard anything from mine...roll on christmas....

[glb1967]

Hi Julie, I just read your post and thought you I was having Deja vu'. I cried. I have three children who were taken from me in 1989. What I thought was temporary custody wasn't. My ex had signed all his rights away before I knew what was going on (he was in the court room before I was and had already signed the papers, he knew what he was signing, I didn't) I found out a day later when I went to see my children and was told never to come back because I had signed them away. My children were all together with their "grandparents". I contacted them in 2002 around thanksgiving. I got emails from 2 of my 3 children. After my daughter's high school graduation in May of 2003, I never heard from my children again. I was also given pictures and under the impression that 2 of them wanted contact with me. They were told the same things as you described. I recently found out my daughter was married and found a contact email through the internet of my daughter's husband and emailed him. He emailed me back and boy he let me have it that I wasn't those kids mother and how I gave them up and I should leave it that way. And how I was loose and etc.., well I am never to contact her anymore. That devastated me. I still have all my pictures of my children up. Although I feel like I am just looking through a distorted piece of glass when I look at their photos. I keep my pictures up because I feel proud as to have had 3 children. Sometimes I feel like they are not mine anymore because of the way they have treated me and cannot like you understand why they act like they do. I am still depressed as to what to do. I think I would like the same answer as you. Sorry to ramble on. God Bless you I totally understand.

[glb1967]

God Bless all of you. Just keep your heads up high. I have people who know me and my situation and they are always trying to keep my spirits up. So I am trying to pass on some love from someone who really understands. I may have to get my antidepressants back out again.Thanks for let me ramble on. Love to all of you.

[julie23]

abcg1977... when I read your post, it made so much sense... in a way I had never thought of it before... and I think your words may have helped me understand on a level I have not understood before... I think that I must be an unusual person, though... my oldest daughter had a stepmother for 10 years (ex is now divorced again)... but that whole time I was FINE with her loving her stepmom... I was fine with her calling her "mom"... (of course, my daughter never actually DID call her mom)... my daughter actually spent TIME with this other mom... (not like my birthdaughter and I)... and I always said "the more love the better"... I suppose I look at my mom... she has a rough relationship with my sister... in large part due to my mom's focus on my sister's relationship with my aunt (moms sister)... I have often thought that if she put all her energy into the relationship with my sis and quit worrying so much about my sis's relationships with others... she might have better luck... make sense?? oh well...

even though your words made sense... and on some level I can accept it... it still hurts. and I guess I just have to get comfortable with that...

banjo: How old is your birthdaughter? mine isn't quite twenty... and intellectually, I KNOW she is very young... and this all must be very difficult for her... but emotionally, I feel bad about it all... I take it personally...

glb1967: I can only imagine your devastation... your post has reminded me that instead of whining about any of this, I ought to count my blessings... I have heard from my daughter... and she says she wants continued contact.... and for that I am very grateful... I will take it one baby step at a time... not always gracefully... not always perfectly... and probably often two steps backwards.... but I have contact... and for that I am grateful... I am praying for you...

thanks all...
j

[banjo]

Hi Julie my bdaughter is only going on 15 so I know that I am expecting too much from a teenager. It just hurts that I have a far better relationship with a niece who is a bit younger than I have ever had with my bchild who I have had contact with all this time. I'm just hurt and sad and angry - open adoption is just not what it's suppose to be - there's not a lot of connection there for us...very sad.

I have just ordered Ambiguous Loss from Amazon. Has anyone read that? banjo