[Sdirector]

And Sdirector, yes, you owe alex9179 an apology for your baseless presumption. More importantly, I really, really wish you would think on the fact that, far more likely than not, these good people thought everything, said everything, and did everything you have thought, said, and done regarding gun safety and still this terrible thing happened

Sorry, none will be given.

It is not a baseless presumption. Any gun owner who is responsible knows that there are three rules for firearm safety. 1. Always treat the gun like it is loaded until you have physically and visually verified that it is not. 2. Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Do NOT point a gun at anything at anytime that you are not willing to destroy. 3. If anyone is not capable of following nor do the know these rules (I.E. Young children), steps must be taken to be sure that the gun is not with that person unsupervised. This means safes, etc.

So, quite clearly, one or more of these rules were not followed in this instance.

I am sorry if the cold, hard truth offends anyone, and I did say, honestly, that I was sorry about their tragedy. However, I am getting sick of the mentality that it is always someone else's fault, and that we take no responsibility for anything on our own. Face it... Someone did not follow the rules. I really feel terrrible for them, as an innocent person died, especially when it did not have to happen.

I am sure that nobody will take any effort here to really listen to what I am trying to say. But, if you are going to own a gun, with or without children, you had better follow those rules. If you are not going to, do not own a gun... period!

As for your statistics, I always say that 95% of all statistics are made up on the spot, or distorted. I am familiar with your statistic, it is distorted. But that is not the purpose of this forum.

If someone is reminded of the rules for firearm safety here, then it is well worth it.

Cheers

[princessmommy2two]

Originally Posted by Howdy

My opinion is that guns and foster children don't mix. My daughter seems outwardly very normal and sweet, but she hears voices that command her to do things like start a fire or steal. She told me that she doesn't think she would kill someone if a voice commanded her to do so, but that she wasn't sure because it hasn't happened yet.

Even "normal" teens can get pretty crazy and do amazingly stupid things that they "know better" than to do. A book I read said that during the brain development during the teenage years, there are times when the judgement, impulse-control (etc.) brain areas are "offline" while new improved brain areas start to take over those functions.

Also you need to consider that teens might take drugs that cause them to do outrageous things. One of my coworker's sons took Meth and then decided he wanted to die in a high speed police chase down the highway. He did succeed in getting his car chased by the police, but he did not die in the ensueing crash.

My daughter also is very smart and sneaky, searches my room when I'm not with her, and gets around computer security (which so far she has only used her powers for evil to remove the time blocks I had on her cell phone, she told me she was tempted to use my credit card to add money to her account but decided she'd get in too much trouble. She's only 12 yrs old. The teenage years will be interesting.).

I can respect differing opinions, although what I was asking for was experience of people who own guns and do fostering.

Opinions are nothing to be upset about...on either side. It's when people start using their opinions to accuse other people of being irresponsible without any proof that upsets me.

And I hear you about teenagers. I was once one myself. Fortunately, we have a while before we have to deal with that in our household, particularly because we will not accept any referral which would upset our biological birth order..and my youngest is 7.

[mommytoEli]

let's stay on topic guys. it is okay to have differences of opinions, please do not take to personal attacks. that being said, i moved from a gun-un friendly place to a gun-friendly place...and in our classes here there were so many people who had guns it shocked me. they were very open with the fact, and the sw did talk about ways to keep guns locked up properly. i am not one for guns, but when my social worker asked if we had any fire arms ( i heard ALARMS), i told her we did...in every room of our house. they were located on our "home map." my dh couldn't control his laughter and just kept saying to me fire ARMS, fire ARMS. oh...none of those. hence my avatar. lol. but afterwards she did say it wouldn't have been a problem....even if we had some.... as long as they were stored properly. again, not an advocate of guns, but i do know that you can own some and still foster. i'd ask my worker what they require before purchasing any item for the purpose of fostering....just to be sure you meet their standards.

[stevenstwin]

Originally Posted by Sdirector

Sorry, none will be given.

It is not a baseless presumption. Any gun owner who is responsible knows that there are three rules for firearm safety. 1. Always treat the gun like it is loaded until you have physically and visually verified that it is not. 2. Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Do NOT point a gun at anything at anytime that you are not willing to destroy. 3. If anyone is not capable of following nor do the know these rules (I.E. Young children), steps must be taken to be sure that the gun is not with that person unsupervised. This means safes, etc.

So, quite clearly, one or more of these rules were not followed in this instance.

I guess what worries me here is that someone might THINK their child knew the rules and was capable of following them, but they might be wrong. There is really no way - NO WAY - to know for sure in advance what any particular child or teen would do with any particular set of circumstances - and this would be even more true for foster children that come from backgrounds we know little about. Now, I'm not even being specific to the gun issue here - but that line caught me in general. My foster teen did several things that I totally would not have expected and could not have prepared for. So I guess what I'm saying is that you can teach your kids all you want about gun safety, but the only SURE way to be safe is to have the guns and ammo locked up all the time with the key hidden in a place they can't possibly find it.

[Sdirector]

So I guess what I'm saying is that you can teach your kids all you want about gun safety, but the only SURE way to be safe is to have the guns and ammo locked up all the time with the key hidden in a place they can't possibly find it.

I agree 100%! See rule 3 above.

The biggest point that I have tried to make is that there is technology out there to allow you to do this without compromising personal safety if the weapon is needed quickly for home defense. Technology that doesn't require a key that can be lost or not found quickly when needed. And, training for the user so that they learn to load quickly, allowing them to keep the ammunition separate, for maximum safety.

Also, never trust those trigger locks that are given away for free! They are usually very poor quality, that either will not come off, or come off too easily without a key. Most of the free trigger locks are more part of anti-gun programs than they are concerned for anyone's safety. A good quality trigger lock can be purchased for around $20.00.

A gun owner has an obligation in the highest sense to make certain that his or her weapon is safe at all times.

[thelowlanders]

I couldn't help but laugh by the memory of someone actually pulling that one with us but in a snarky kinda way "Well...if you have guns in your home then OUR children will not be coming over. " I returned with my concern being as our children were all 4 and under..."Well, I believe your cleaning chemicals are in highly dangerous easily accessible places in your home. That will not be appropriate for my children either. But thanks anyway" We try to keep very natural non harmful cleaners anyway.

As far as guns and fostering.... wierd, I know. They took our word for it as to where they were kept. We have a built in gun safe. It's kept locked. And then the room's door is kept locked as it's where our work out eqp. and office room is also. I do have a concealed weapons prmt and keep a gun in the car also. In the center console locked at all times. So that was approved of here in our area atleast.

[sunnyrobins]

When it comes right down to it no matter what individual personal beliefs are we simply have to follow the rules. We even have to keep the BB guns locked up. Here is what our state requires . .just to give you an idea. You may be able to find this info online for your state too.

g) Firearms and other weapons.
(1) No child in the home shall have unsupervised access to any of the following:
(A) Firearms, ammunition, and other weapons;
(B) air-powered guns, including BB guns, pellet guns, and paint ball guns;
(C) hunting and fishing knives; and
(D) any archery and martial arts equipment.
(2) All firearms, including air-powered guns, BB guns, pellet guns, and paint ball guns, shall be stored unloaded in a locked container, closet, or cabinet. If the locked container, closet, or cabinet is constructed in whole or in part of glass or plexiglass, each firearm shall be additionally secured with a hammer lock, barrel lock, or trigger guard.
(3) Ammunition shall be kept in a separate locked storage container or locked compartment designed for that purpose.
(4) All archery equipment, hunting and fishing knives, and other weapons shall be kept in a locked storage compartment.
(5) Each key to a locked storage container, closet, or compartment of guns, ammunition, and other weapons, and to gun locks shall be in the control of a licensee at all times.

[CaddoRose]

We were told (in Texas)that the guns had to be empty of ammo and stored in a locked cabinet, the key to which, had to be in an entirely different room. The ammo had to be in a locked box and not in the same room as the guns, and that box had to be a very strong box(not lightweight plastic) so someone couldn't hit it with a hammer and break into it. The key to the ammo box had to be stored in another room also.

[thelowlanders]

ooph! Anyone else as surprised as I am by the # of parents that allow their children to run around with those airsoft guns?

[chevyjewel]

Gun owner and am dual licensed to do foster and daycare here...

To answer the original question...everything I've ever heard in regards to this situation regardless of state or agency licensed through stipulates all firearms are to be kept unloaded and either locked up or child safety locked (in my case I use a cable-style gun locking device from Project Child Safe). Ammunition MUST be kept separately from said firearms and be locked up.

Does keeping the two locked up separately defeat the purpose of personal protection? Yes. But those are the rules. Don't like 'em, that's fine, but should you chose not to comply you won't obtain your license. Should you chose to fib, complying temporarily just to get through the licensing process only to return your weapons the way they were originally stored then you're opening up yourself and your family to all sorts of legal ramifications should a surprise inspection ever reveal you've changed how you originally vowed to store them.



On a side note to those so opposed to having firearms in the home with children....the way my firearms are stored make them safer than many items/situations my kids have access to on a regular basis, in the craft boxes...simple sissors, up on my kitchen counter ....knives (although stored in a knife block to keep me in compliance), bathroom....bathtub and toilet, playing outside...stranger abduction, your own vehicle used to transport your child...the number 1 leading cause of death in children is car accidents. Using the logic that kids should never reside in a home where there are guns "just in case" then the same should apply to vehicles and children should NEVER be allowed to ride in or be around them "just in case." Although to be fair, being around vehicles should be considered vastly more dangerous because of the number of children injured/killed by them on a daily basis compared to the number of children injured/killed by firearms on a daily basis - there's absolutely no comparison when looking at the statistics which is by far more deadly. I could go on and on and on about the dangers that surround our children every day but I think I've made my point.

We can sit in fear of an object or we can educate our children and be dilligent through supervision. I chose to educate and supervise.

And there absolutely is a reason to keep firearms in my home...I hunt. What I hunt I use to feed my family. I save hundreds and hundreds of dollars a year in grocery bills harvesting the game I do and it's LOADS healthier than the meat products one usually buys in a grocery store.

[chevyjewel]

Originally Posted by thelowlanders

ooph! Anyone else as surprised as I am by the # of parents that allow their children to run around with those airsoft guns?

I haven't seen any parents allow their kids to have those, shame on them if they are.

A friend of mine brought one of his over and I fired it at my dogs outdoor kennel a few times (dogs were inside the house, my kids with their grandparents...), a few of the little plastic projectiles hit so hard they bounced back at me and HURT!!! Ping-ed up the plastic too, the worst hail my home has seen thus far hadn't managed to do that.




I forgot to add, during licensing I ALWAYS invite inspection. Force it really in a way. So when asked where I keep my meds I don't say "oh yeah they're up there locked up" I get off my duff and lead my licensing worker to SHOW her. I didn't have my rifles here in my home during my last licensing appointments but during previous ones I've taken my worker and shown her my safety locks and lock box where ammo is kept separately. I don't give the option of looking or not looking to the worker, I make them see it so I know my idea of compliance based on a policy description is also theirs.

[thelowlanders]

Nicely put.

Wierd thing about the airsofts...my inlaws roll their eyes at ME when I refuse to let my children play with the cousins until all airsofts are put up. No excuses, my safety rules. But....they also let their kids play with fire, ride on top of truck (bed of truck not enough apparantly which just that stresses me out), cut with an ax, etc. Let's just say they didn't call me when my nephew caught on fire all the way up his legs because he was PLAYING with it. ugh. I'm known as the NAG in my husbands family. But hey...my kids aren't known by name at the local ER and I'm proud ..of ..it

[OutdoorDad]

Well, the first thing I did before I brang my firearms into my home with 2 kids was teach them proper firearm discipline.

I would constantly drill my boy at age 7, "What would you do if" questions. Then I taught him how to shoot once he knew how to handle a rifle. before I brought my firearms into my home, I would parked my truck away from the house, hid in a room, and left an unloaded rifle on the floor near the door. I knew that my kids would be getting home from school very soon, and they would already expect me to be home. But on this day, they came in to an unlocked house, saw the rifle, and my (at the time) 7 year old boy escorted his sister to the couch, had her sit and stay. He called out my name, did not get a responce. Then, he examined the rifle without touching it, saw that the action was open, he flipped it over realized it was not loaded. he called out my name again, becasue he was expecting me to be home, when he did not get a responce he went to the phone, called my cell phone, then realized I was in the other room when my phone rang.

Again, having firearms in the house is OK by me, you just have to properly teach your children about them, and that they CAN BE DANGEROUS, and you need to respect them. my boy passed his hunter safety course on the day of his 8th Birthday with a 100% score, and the sad thing was that some 40 year old men in this class FAILED.

If you have firearms (they are not called weapons, that is what the media wants you to think of them as)
if you have Firearms, please teach your kids propery handling, safety and respect for them. Do not let a small child discarge a handgun! a .22 rifle youth model is the safest to teach with, go to a local rifle rang, or fish and game club for hunter Safety info EVEN IF THE CHILD WILL NEVER HUNT! this will re-enforce the firearm safety methods.

but still keep them under lock and key, if your child see's you treating firearms with respect they will follow! keep them unlocked and left out, this could be disaster as they're friends might not be as safe as your own.

-J

[DannieAS]

to the original poster (princessmommy)

The best way to remedy the situation is to ask what are the rules re: firearms. I know that even if I weren't fostering my state has one of the toughest laws re: guns...locked, ammunition locked separately. I know it may come as a shock to you, but each place has their rules and yes some are more unfriendly towards guns than other, and unless you want to risk getting into trouble...just have the weapons stored how they ask you to store them.