[princessmommy2two]

Originally Posted by Hadley2

No, I didn't misquote you. No lock is good enough.

Sdirector, it is ridiculous and arrogant to assume that the Alex's family was not as pro-gun and "responsible" as you in educating the children, training them on "gun safety," and building a healthy respect for weapons in them, etc.

The idea that the lives of children--bio or foster--no matter how well behaved, value-driven, responsible, well-taught, etc., can be trusted against this huge temptation is why so many children are shot, injured, and killed every year. I would venture to say that pretty much every parent who has experienced a child playing with guns in their house thought and said the very same things you are thinking and saying.

THEY WERE WRONG. Guns and children DO NOT MIX. Period.

The only way to keep ANY child--your "trained" ones or foster ones--safe from guns is to NOT HAVE THEM.

Foster parents should not have guns in the house. It is bad enough to risk your own family and guests in your home, IMO you do not have any "right" to risk a child entrusted to you.

Actually, you did misquote me by omitting part of my original post in your quote and making it seem like I thought that a box that was "hard to get into" was enough, without locking it. That's not what I was saying AT ALL.

And I realize that you are entitled to your personal views about guns, but the constitution of the country in which we live guarantees law abiding citizens the right to keep and bear arms.

Having a gun doesn't disqualify you from having a child or vice versa. Children and guns have coexisted for centuries, and most of the problems have occurred more recently (past 50 years or so) with uneducated people having guns for the wrong reason without proper training or respect for them.

[crick]

The question here isn't about opinions on owning guns, rather what is the protocol on owning one if you are a foster parent.

Let's just stay on track with that please.

Thanks!

[bluebonnet_72]

Do keep in mind your foster children may have had bad experiences with guns prior to being in your home. I'll never know the exact reason but my daughter, adopted at age 5, is terrified of guns. My parents do western reenactments and the first time she saw it she was extermely upset. We went to an auction where she saw rifles from a distance and she was shaking. There is a western show using guns at the amusement park we go to. She shakes and tries to run away when she hears the guns being fired in the distance. It has taken us three years to get her comfortable enough that any sight or sound of a gun doesn't terrify her.
I total understand keeping a gun to protect your family, just be aware you may have children who have seen them used for other things. You might want to be sure they are stored out of sight and the children are unware of them.

[Sdirector]

Sdirector, it is ridiculous and arrogant to assume that the Alex's family was not as pro-gun and "responsible" as you in educating the children, training them on "gun safety," and building a healthy respect for weapons in them, etc.

I will take it that you are calling my opinion arrogant, and not me, because that would be name calling... :-)

I will not engage in the fight about if guns are OK or not, or who is safe with them... everyone has their opinion. However, the storage protocols which I have mentioned are safe, and OK for both storage around children, and to be readily accessible to the right person to keep those same kids safe from a bad person who would seek to harm them. And I agree, you need to be aware of what may have happened around your foster kids, and be sensitive to their needs.

I do not think that anyone is going to do a search of your house. Be responsible, and safe. Invest the money in a good safe.

[alinev]

What is the purpose of a hand gun. The only potential target is another human. A good alarm system or a well trained dog should in a decent neighborhood should eliminate any threat.

[carlychan]

I would want a handgun if another "human" was pointing one at me.

[Sdirector]

Originally Posted by alinev

What is the purpose of a hand gun. The only potential target is another human. A good alarm system or a well trained dog should in a decent neighborhood should eliminate any threat.

I would ask for the moderators consideration with this post, as I am going to answer a question, and discuss correct storage for foster parents.

A hand gun's purpose, in this instance, is to be used as a defensive instrument if you or someone in your family is attacked. It is one layer of defense in a system that should also include an alarm system or well trained dog. It is a backup in case those systems fail. A well trained dog can be dispatched with a gun, and an alarm really won't stop someone bent on doing you harm, it will, perhaps, make them quicker. What is the response time for an alarm? Responsible people, like the OP seems to be, do not go looking for a chance to use their weapon, it is a last resort, in addition to other measures. In fact, the alarm system and well trained dog would hopefully provide enough warning and delay to allow a person the extra few seconds needed to retrieve a gun from a safe storage system. Ideally, they will scare of an intruder, and make it unnecessary to use the final layer of defense.

As foster parents, in seeing what many of these children go through, we should be able to see that not all "humans" are good and nice people, and some are deranged by various mental illnesses, or drugs. Those are the people who are not likely to be deterred only by alarm systems or dogs.

Everyone must follow the rules that are set up for foster children and guns. Many of the storage safes out there that I have talked about (some of which may cost quite a sum of money) provide the safety that everyone needs, and satisfy those rules, in my opinion.

One other thought... You could meet the requirements for gun and ammunition locked separately by purchasing two hand safes, one for the gun, and a small one for the ammunition. Use a semi-automatic, and keep one (or two) loaded magazines in the other hand safe. Practice (with an empty magazine, or really do it right by getting some dummy ammunition and loading the magazine) inserting the magazine, and cycling the slide, in the dark or blindfolded. You can train your finger to find the point of the bullet, and then know which way to insert the magazine. It sounds like a lot of work in training, but anyone who is going to use a handgun for home defense has the responsibility to know how to use it correctly, including firing at least 100 rounds per month at a target range.

Two good quality hand safes would only add a few seconds to your response time, would comply with the rules, and would still allow you to protect your family safely. It is kind of like wearing a belt and suspenders.

[DreamingAzure]

SDirector,

Thanks for the ideas of the various safe ideas!! This is one of the subjects that we have been wrestling with in my home.

I have a small pistol and a .22 rifle, both of which are kept loaded, that are mainly used for target practice and killing rattlesnakes. And before anyone says it...YOU try killing a 6 foot rattlesnake with a 6ft hoe vs. using a rifle or from 15 ft. away!

I grew up in one of those families where kids were taught a healthy respect for guns.

We are a family who had an accidental(non-lethal) shooting that had nothing to do with children,

For Your Safety(FYS): Don't have phone sex while cleaning your semi automatic, and forget that there is one in the chamber...the big bang ending was NOT what he had in mind lol Upside after 15 years apart from the girlfriend on the other end of the line, they found each other again, got married and just had their first child last week!

I digress, I'll have to go and take a look at finger print safes!!

Thanks for the info SDirector!

[RavenSong]

I'm curious -- do the licensing workers from DSS ask to see the gun safes or locked gun cabinets, or do they just take the word of foster parents?

I wonder if the biological parents of children taken into care are ever informed that there are guns in the foster home...probably not. I imagine it would be pretty upsetting to some...

I remember a case several years ago where the 14-year-old biological child of the foster parents killed an 8-year-old foster child. He told the police they were playing "cops and robbers"...rather unlikely at his age.

[Hadley2]

The paramount purpose of foster care is to keep children safe. I am not debating gun "rights." Everyone has a right to have sex in the kitchen, too, but not with a foster child in the house. As for protocol for a foster parent owning a gun, if they want to ACTUALLY keep children SAFE, then the protocol is to get rid of it.

The op asked if it "would be good enough" to have certain setups, a tricky case (for "little fingers"; what about pubescent or older?) or locked case or whatever, to secure guns in her house.

I took the question to mean would it would be good enough to keep children--foster or her own for that matter--safe.

I stand by my answer. NO. "NO" is the only true and correct answer to whether she can keep children safe in a house with guns.

NO, she can't. Period. This is not debatable, it is not an opinion, not a theory, it is a fact based on enormouse amounts of evidence and obvious common sense. No child is safe in a household with guns: Firearm-Related Injuries Affecting the Pediatric Population -- Committee on Injury and Poison Prevention 105 (4): 888 -- AAP Policy

If, however, she is not interested in how to actually keep children safe but is only interested in the much more limited information as to what her own state or local agency policy to mitigate but not eliminate the risk is, then she should ask her licensing worker. And then abide by the rules, whatever they are, not rely on the notion that "I do not think anyone is going to do a search of your house."

And Sdirector, yes, you owe alex9179 an apology for your baseless presumption. More importantly, I really, really wish you would think on the fact that, far more likely than not, these good people thought everything, said everything, and did everything you have thought, said, and done regarding gun safety and still this terrible thing happened.

We live in a rural area. I always ask if there is a gun in the house when my children are invited. For my child to be in your home, you must not have a gun. THE ONE TIME I trusted the mother's assurance that all was locked and hidden away and the kids had been taught never ever to touch, was THE ONE TIME my daughter, who had also been warned thoroughly and taught to immediately get a grownup if she so much as saw a toy gun, came home and said that her friend had opened her (adult) brother's gun safe (combination--now how do you suppose she figured that one out?) and showed her the guns.

You can drill it into them over and over and over but when faced with that temptation, it is nearly impossible for them to resist.

Children are shot every two hours around the clock in this country. Thirty percent of child suicides are committed with a gun, nearly all with a gun from the household or other family member. The odds of a home invasion, by an armed intruder yet, are astronomically low compared to the odds of a child gaining possession of a household gun, locked away or not.

Again, the paramount purpose of foster care is to keep children safe, not endanger them.

[princessmommy2two]

Originally Posted by Hadley2

The paramount purpose of foster care is to keep children safe. I am not debating gun "rights." Everyone has a right to have sex in the kitchen, too, but not with a foster child in the house. As for protocol for a foster parent owning a gun, if they want to ACTUALLY keep children SAFE, then the protocol is to get rid of it.

The op asked if it "would be good enough" to have certain setups, a tricky case (for "little fingers"; what about pubescent or older?) or locked case or whatever, to secure guns in her house.

I took the question to mean would it would be good enough to keep children--foster or her own for that matter--safe.

.

Since you seem to have trouble understanding or properly quoting my original post, let me provide you with a DIRECT and UNEDITED quote of what I said and the question I was asking. Feel free to go back to my original post to make sure I quoted myself correctly.

obviously a foster child would be different, so in that case, we'd move that gun into the locked case as well.

Will that be good enough....having them all locked up?

So, what I was asking is whether having ALL GUNS locked up (not just in a hard to open box) would be sufficient. I was asking for people who were gun owners and foster parents and had experience with this issue for their experiences.

Obviously, I will talk to my caseworker about it, however I was simply hoping to pick up some early tips so I know what to expect.

I was NOT looking to start a debate on guns. Should I wish to engage in something like that, I could easily provide my own list of statistics which would support responsible gun ownership. That, however, is not the purpose of this forum.

[princessmommy2two]

Originally Posted by Sdirector

I would ask for the moderators consideration with this post, as I am going to answer a question, and discuss correct storage for foster parents.

A hand gun's purpose, in this instance, is to be used as a defensive instrument if you or someone in your family is attacked. It is one layer of defense in a system that should also include an alarm system or well trained dog. It is a backup in case those systems fail. A well trained dog can be dispatched with a gun, and an alarm really won't stop someone bent on doing you harm, it will, perhaps, make them quicker. What is the response time for an alarm? Responsible people, like the OP seems to be, do not go looking for a chance to use their weapon, it is a last resort, in addition to other measures. In fact, the alarm system and well trained dog would hopefully provide enough warning and delay to allow a person the extra few seconds needed to retrieve a gun from a safe storage system. Ideally, they will scare of an intruder, and make it unnecessary to use the final layer of defense.

As foster parents, in seeing what many of these children go through, we should be able to see that not all "humans" are good and nice people, and some are deranged by various mental illnesses, or drugs. Those are the people who are not likely to be deterred only by alarm systems or dogs.

Everyone must follow the rules that are set up for foster children and guns. Many of the storage safes out there that I have talked about (some of which may cost quite a sum of money) provide the safety that everyone needs, and satisfy those rules, in my opinion.

One other thought... You could meet the requirements for gun and ammunition locked separately by purchasing two hand safes, one for the gun, and a small one for the ammunition. Use a semi-automatic, and keep one (or two) loaded magazines in the other hand safe. Practice (with an empty magazine, or really do it right by getting some dummy ammunition and loading the magazine) inserting the magazine, and cycling the slide, in the dark or blindfolded. You can train your finger to find the point of the bullet, and then know which way to insert the magazine. It sounds like a lot of work in training, but anyone who is going to use a handgun for home defense has the responsibility to know how to use it correctly, including firing at least 100 rounds per month at a target range.

Two good quality hand safes would only add a few seconds to your response time, would comply with the rules, and would still allow you to protect your family safely. It is kind of like wearing a belt and suspenders.

Thank you. I agree that training is absolutely essential. No one should have access to a deadly weapon without knowing how to use it for it's intended purpose.

I practice target shooting with our handgun a minimum of 3-4 hours per month. The cost of ammunition for target practice is a small price to pay for accuracy.

And I think the finger safe is a great idea for the handgun. The rifles can stay locked separately from their ammunition because we only use them for hunting and/or target practice, not self defense.

[sewminky]

[QUOTE=RavenSong]I'm curious -- do the licensing workers from DSS ask to see the gun safes or locked gun cabinets, or do they just take the word of foster parents?

He/She will want to see it during a home visit. At least that's what ours did.

[stevenstwin]

Originally Posted by sewminky

[QUOTE=RavenSong]I'm curious -- do the licensing workers from DSS ask to see the gun safes or locked gun cabinets, or do they just take the word of foster parents?

He/She will want to see it during a home visit. At least that's what ours did.

I'm surprised the extent to which they often DON'T check on things. We have no weapons in the house, but they took our word for that. Then they asked if we have all medications safely stored in a locked box - and again, didn't ask to actually see it. My home inspection mainly consisted of them asking me a checklist of questions and never going beyond my kitchen table. I suppose they'll carry on that way until an accident happens because someone lied to them! I'm also fairly certain (in response to RavenSong's original question) that the bio parents are NOT told too many specifics of the home, other than the fact it has been approved as "safe". I see both sides of that one - as a mom, the idea of not having some control over where my children go is terrifying (and on THIS topic, I do not allow my children to visit in homes with guns. Ever.). But on the other hand, most children coming into foster care are coming from homes were they are already in significant danger, so I question to what extent those bio parents really have a right to set conditions about where they are going. I believe many would abuse having that kind of power - I know our FS's bio dad had him moved from two foster care placements for really ridiculous reasons, just to prove he could!

[Howdy]

My opinion is that guns and foster children don't mix. My daughter seems outwardly very normal and sweet, but she hears voices that command her to do things like start a fire or steal. She told me that she doesn't think she would kill someone if a voice commanded her to do so, but that she wasn't sure because it hasn't happened yet.

Even "normal" teens can get pretty crazy and do amazingly stupid things that they "know better" than to do. A book I read said that during the brain development during the teenage years, there are times when the judgement, impulse-control (etc.) brain areas are "offline" while new improved brain areas start to take over those functions.

Also you need to consider that teens might take drugs that cause them to do outrageous things. One of my coworker's sons took Meth and then decided he wanted to die in a high speed police chase down the highway. He did succeed in getting his car chased by the police, but he did not die in the ensueing crash.

My daughter also is very smart and sneaky, searches my room when I'm not with her, and gets around computer security (which so far she has only used her powers for evil to remove the time blocks I had on her cell phone, she told me she was tempted to use my credit card to add money to her account but decided she'd get in too much trouble. She's only 12 yrs old. The teenage years will be interesting.).