[stevenstwin]

Originally Posted by committedsoul

I LOVE liver and onions... tastes awesome with grits...rice too... it was recommended by my physician for my severe anemia. My kids love it as well and I grew up eating it...
.

What is the matter with you people? You can't eat just liver and onions...it has to be liver, onions and bacon!! Geez, people. (side note - I love the stuff...if it is baby beef...but hadn't given much thought to it storing toxins. Now I'm wondering if it isn't as healthful as I always thought...)

[MomToThree]

I spoke with the agency that we used the first time, and told them about the county dss issues. I read them the letter that was sent to me after the CW's visit.

They are sending me an application, and confirmed that paddling my adopted children was not a deal breaker. Also, she couldn't quit laughing over the liver.

I was told that they would review my application, talk with dss in my county, and then meet with my children before they would make a decision.

I was able to talk to this person, and answer all of her questions to her satisfaction. She can't make any promises, but as long as I disclose everything, and understand that I cannot paddle a foster child, I will probably be able to renew my license.

It helps that this agency knows what my children were like and how they are now. They have grown/matured so much over the last 4 years.

For those of you that aren't bashing me, keep me in your prayers. For those of you that are... I know there is a difference between paddling a 6 year old and one that is 12 or 16. By this age, they understand delayed consequences, and banning them from the playstation or the phone works better. As I said before... I can't remember the last time I paddled any of my kids. I don't encourage or discourage anyone to use corporal punishment, but I will say that in the case of my boys it has made a world of difference.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by MomToThree

And let me repeat... hot sauce was a threat to get him to finish eating... it wasn't used. However, since I use it in my chili, spaghetti, and hot wings (which he likes), I know my son does not have an allergic reaction to it. It is against the law to rinse a child's mouth out with soap, but using a condiment that is intended for ingestion is not.

You are dead wrong about forcing a child to eat certain condiments, such as hot sauce, not being against the law. Parents routinely lose custody of their kids here in California on the grounds of forcing them to ingest hot sauce (especially Tobasco Sauce), as well as cayenne pepper, black pepper, etc.

I don't think making your son eat liver is what triggered the investigation -- it was the hot sauce thing. That is considered child abuse in many states and localities.

[MomToThree]

Ravensong,

I did check with my attorney at the time, and was assured that using hot sauce; while being an unusual punishment, is not illegal.

But you are right... it was the hot sauce allegation that started the investigation. I was told by the SW that came to my house that a child had died in this county from eating a habenero (sp?) pepper. This child was highly allergic and his throat became swollen and he died on the way to the hospital.

The attorney's advice was based on the fact that my son usually uses Texas Pete on his eggs without any ill affects. The attorney also told me that I should have stood my ground and not signed a modification plan to not use hot sauce as a punishment because by doing so it was like an admission of guilt, and if we went to court, DSS would have lost.

My husband was the one that made the threat of hot sauce, not realizing that my son would probably prefer his liver covered in it. At the time of the incident, my son was trying to manipulate his teachers to get out of trouble, and used a large number of crocodile tears during his begging session. I talked at length with the teacher about the situation, and she was very familiar with his great acting career. I know I sound cynical, but I have so many documented incidences from before he was placed with us, and since about his exaggerations and sometimes out right lies. Add that to the fact that he gladly eats hot wings and DSS would not have a case.

He is currently in therapy working through these things. It has worked wonders. He is heartsick that this snowballed, and is now playing a major part in whether we can adopt the two children we found. Before anyone points this out... I did not intentionally tell him, he overheard me talking with DSS on the phone. He will be 10 soon, and volunteered to call the SW and tell them that he is sorry and that my dh and I are great parents.

This is a big thing. Even the therapist thinks this is a breakthrough. If you looked at my posts from 2005, you would see that this is my middle son, and he was very materialistic thinking only of himself. For the first year he was with us he constantly complained about wanting to be an only child and asked if I could send his sister and younger brother back to the foster home. Now, he is willing to share his bedroom with his younger brother to allow the older boy we are looking at to have his own room.

Even if we are unable to adopt these other children, I am thankful that he has learned from this experience. I just hope that we can still work through this and add 2 more to the family. If things don't work out, I am going to have to come up with something to tell him so that he does not blame himself.

Anyway... I thank all of you for allowing me to vent and for not bashing me too badly.

[TxMom65]

In our PRIDE Classes we were told to never use anything food related as a punishment. I have found myself saying, "You will have to finish this before you can eat." (homework) and remember to not use food in any way.

I hate liver and would have probably starved or stolen food to have not eaten it. In all honestly, I can see why the assistant called and the staff should not have been angry at her. All of our school employees are to report suspected child abuse. If your son was upset about being forced to eat liver with hot sauce, I'm sure it made her worry.

I don't think though this should prohibit you from ever adopting again.

[hkolln]

I know here you can't pass a home study (even an adoptive home study) if you use corporal punishment (spanking). You have to sign a waiver that you won't do it.

Our biodaughter, in 1st grade, stole candy out of the teachers desk. We got a call about it and she was sent home. Once she got home my husband lectured her and then proceeded to pretend to call the cops because she was stealing. She cried, pleaded for him to hang up the phone. He eventually did but not before telling her if she did steal again he would report her to the cops! She hasn't done it anymore and she's now 15. I guess he scared her straight! LOL

I personally don't believe spanking helps. It is only a quick punishment to a child and it makes them afraid to do it again and afraid of the person doing the spanking. I find removing privileges so much better and discussing with the child why they lost their privileges and for how long (normally we do the 3 day rule and they lose ALL of their privileges...not just 1 and if they screw up within those 3 days the clock starts over) and how to behave in a more proper way next time. I see my husband, who was beat by his dad with a belt, and he mentioned that he was afraid of the belt so he never did whatever it was again. He just knew he'd get beat so he didn't ever do it again...but he could never explain to me WHY he shouldn't do whatever it was again. He said it was just he was afraid of his Dad and the belt. Kinda sad when you think about it. I wouldn't want my kids to fear me but come to me when they needed me (especially now that one is 15).

[MomToThree]

You know it is really a shame that this was such a big deal. My original agency is afraid that since the county I live in will not place children with us then other counties would not either. So in her opinion, it would be a fruitless effort to even try for our license again.

She told me to be happy with the three that I have.

It hurts to know that my disciplinary style has changed so much since Jan. 2007. As I said before, I can't remember when the last time was that I paddled one of my children, and the liver thing got old quick. Truthfully, I can't stand the smell of it cooking.

I talked to both my agency and the county; and I suggested creating a plan for disciplining both foster children, and my own that they would approve. The plan could include that the kids placed in my home be 12 years old or over. Kids in that age range will tell in a heart beat if any abuse occurs.

I just want these two kids. I am not sure why I am obsessed with these children, but I can't get over the fact that they are in two different homes... and have recently lost a parent.

One thing that I can point to is that I grew up and passed out of foster care at 18. The only difference between me and the other kids I was living with is that I went to college. But while I was in care, I was placed separately from my sister. So... I can really empathize with this set of children.

I did get advice to try other private agencies, and I still have some really great contacts in DSS... they just picked this week to go on vacation. If all else fails, I have an in with the lieutenant governor. Or, I may try going the attorney route. I have re-read the conditions for foster parenting, and none relate to how you discipline your own children, and I do not have a "substatiated" report with DSS, so that could not legally be held against me.

I did get in touch with my kids elementary counselor, and I got nothing but praises for how well my children have matured in my home. They have surpassed so many obstacles and have matured so much. I have a lot of references that have observed me parenting, and am hoping that I can get this resolved and adopt these children, or at least find out that these specific children find a home together.

Pray for them or me... whichever. And again thanks for not bashing me too much.

[MomToThree]

For hkolln..

My husband and I are good friends with the current and former chief of police in our town. We tried the scare tactic and actually made the call. We took my son down to visit the jail, and to talk to police officers about what a life of stealing will lead to in the end.

It did not phase him.

I was waiting for the day when I felt that our family was a working unit, and then my husband and I could become foster parents or foster to adopt parents again. I feel like such a criminal and I don't even have parking tickets. Oh, it didn't help to hear from the licensing board in Raleigh that they have several foster parents that were licensed and actually had substantiated claims.

So I am glad this worked for you, but my kid just thought of it as a fun adventure. He bragged to his school friends for days.

Anyway... sorry for venting but when I say I tried everything, I actually did.

[Ssumner]

Sorry - I think using any type of food for punishment is wrong; especially hot sauce! Also, any form of hitting, spanking, paddling, or any physical touch would be grounds for an investigation with your foster child.

[ScrapMonkey]

It does not really matter what we personally think is right or wrong in this case. Clearly the OP thought it was okay. Per our foster care rules and regs, this would not be okay for us and we would have lost our foster kids and our license.

[millie58]

I LOVE my mom's liver and onions!! Don't eat them now because of cholesterol but I loved them as a kid. and I believe cayenne pepper has anti-oxidant factors. In NY, we can't use food deprivation as a form of punishment. We also can't spank/paddle/hit. To the voicer who said she didn't want her kids afraid of her: I want my kids somewhat afraid of me. I'm a single parent who commutes. I have 4 boys with differing degrees of hurt and anger. They're all better than when they first came but they have a ways to go.

[DoYaReallyThink]

Now ladies, it's not great liver and onions until you make it in gravy and put it on mashed taters. And there must be biscuits!
To the OP I don;t think I would have made him eat as an consequence but I sure would have stripped his luxuries!

[laceyc]

We have a bd that we occ spank. During our homestudy the cw said that we could not spank fc (which we knew and agreed to) but that spanking our bd was not a deal breaker. Time outs or standing in the corner work better than spanking for our bd anyway, so we don't do it very often. I'm sorry this has become such a big deal and raise such a ruckus.

[thelowlanders]

I think there's many other things to be concerning ourselvels with, especially in the foster system. Perhaps the "child collectors", or the pretend "super Fparents" who always act like "everything's fine HERE. I don't know why THEY were having problems with this child", the people using the system to get as much money for the fkids as possible (causing a complete turnaround in the dispersement of funds around here I've heard), etc. Many, many issues going on. I personally find a lazy parent who lets them run, doesn't regularly feed them, and has a disgustingly trashed home, and took on way more than they can handle, much more dispiciable than those trying to find a way to appropriately raise children w/character and self control.

I am amazed time and time again by the homes and families they approve of.

[mom2fabtwins]

I am amazed time and time again by the homes and families they approve of.[/quote]


I agree!!! I was concerned the I had entered the wrong classroom for the special needs adoption class. Based on the questions being asked I was VERY fearful for the children.

I know one lady who was taking in teen ("that's were the money is") who on first glance looked to BE one of the teens. I think it is hard to demonstrate authority in pajama pants and a tank top - in the middle of the day. I know clothes don't make the person, but they help to establish a presence.