[newMafamily]

First, I am pointing out that the assumption is that everyone else gets these benefits and they don't! Not every parent does and the assumption you seemed to make was that " other jobs" are brimming with these benefits teachers are cheated of. There is a large segment of society that does not get much in the way of paid time off. Every job has its trade-offs.

I was only pointing out that companies including schools do what's best for themselves. If an HR policy is changed to allow you to use your time to parent a child do we also allow people to use sick time to take care of a sick relative? (Perhaps they will never collect benefits as parents) If we as a society want to support these things we need to choose that and pay for as a society like some european countries. However there is a cost to everyone to do that. There are alot of inequities where do you draw the line that is all I am saying. Most places have chosen to limit PAID sick time to a medical condition.

As for teachers taking time off for pregnancy, in most companies you are guaranteed a job not your job back. In teaching most teachers go back to thier classroom and in the meantime there is a "long term substitute" of variable quality, and often a lack of continuity. This is the concern of most parents- not the fact that you choose to parent.

As for dedicating your life to teaching kids - I have met excellent teachers and lousy teachers. The excellent ones acknowledged that they are partners in the long term education of my children. In any given year my children spend 10% of that year with them and they do what they can with that small amount of time. Like a dedicated scout leader, coach, physician, nurse, I value that dedication and treat them accordingly. However I don't consider a good teacher a gift or bonus and I don't consider them more entitled then anyone else to benefits because they choose to teach.

[stepforone]

I have to point out the companies side of this - if they gave leave to foster parents what about the fp that don't adopt but might take in 5 different infants within one year? How does a company know (since we ourselves don't know!) how many times they will have to give leave to a foster parent due to a new placement? I think it is wonderful that they will give leave at all. I don't work presently but I have worked for large companies in the past but that was before fostering so I don't know what their regs were. I agree that the best bet would be to find another fp that is willing to watch your child until they are old enough for day care. I know you are just looking at it from 'this one time' perspective but companies have to view it overall and many fp do take in multiple placements through a year - who would decide when enough is enough for them?

[BethanyB]

NewMafamily, I was not talking about any other profession BUT teaching. I AM a good teacher who stays up late going online, looking for NEW ideas and lessons to teach my kids - even when I don't have to because I could just use the same old stuff year after year. I go to the teaching store, and the grocery store AND the toy store to buy things for my students - even when I don't have to. I spend nights worrying about my low kids and if they will learn to read. So excuse me if I'm upset when a parent goes into the principals office demanding their child be pulled from a teachers class because they will be out on maternity leave for a few months that next school year. Or when a classroom of parents on back to school night bombard a newly pregnant teachers with angry questions about how their child is ever going to survive this terrible situation. How teachers have to hide that they are pregnant until they are six and seven months because of fear of angry parents or being made into a permant sub. These are all things that are happening in our school, and I should not be upset over this??? I'm not a good teacher if this type of stuff makes me hurt and angry? I give so much of myself without asking for anything in return like so many teachers I work with and this is the thanks we get! I guess teachers are only supposed to get pregnant when they can plan for a summer birth?! How ridiculous! So yes, it bothers me! Or I guess teachers should not even get pregnant at all?!

OH, and I'm not expecting to get MORE because I'm a teacher. I expect to be treated like all other teachers in my distict which was the point in the first place. Bio parents get to take their sick days and adoptive parents don't. -Unfair since they are MY sick days anyway!

(And just a little note - All of our maternity replacements are certified teachers. We interview a LOT of people for these positions and the replacements almost always go on to get a job in our district as a regular classroom teacher. The kids do very well, and adjust wonderfully. So that should not be used as an excuse.

[Faith65]

Ok, now what if you are adopting or foster an older child vs an infant or toddler?

[newMafamily]

The point I am making is you get something, many get nothing. You stated you wanted to be treated the same as any other teacher or PARENT. Many of the parents (of your students) get little or no leave. Someone who chooses NOT to parent gets no PAID sick time to take care of a significant other. You want for youself but if they give it to everyone and charge your taxes would you want that? Just a thought about fairness.

I did try to tell you that HR policy is not usually to your benefit. You will learn when you have your first run in with HR that they are not "your" sick days. You may be thankful later that they are avialable for an illness of you or your child. I advise you to take them then.

Regarding teaching why shouldn't you be a permanent sub if you will only be there half a year. If a district is doing what is best for the kids what is best? I have watched "certified "retired and half dead teachers fill holes in classrooms for 6 months. The kids live through it but that doesn't mean they are learning. My sons' long term substitute was awful and he lost a lot of learning time because of it. One of the other teachers came back and decided she wanted to stay home and left agian. In other jobs you might get your job back but not your exact project or placement and I think that is fair. It is one thing to leave and stay gone for the rest of the year but another to leave for the majority of the year and then get your class back for 6 weeks.

In the end (although this is off topic) you don't sound like you like parents that much. A few years walk in thier shoes may change your mind. I worked in a school as a non-parent and although I had a lot of experience with kids, I have learned a tremendous amount about being on the other side of the table after becoming a parent. Wait 5 years and I would bet you are not volunteering your child to be the student of that "long term sub".

[BethanyB]

The subject of my post was TEACHERS. I'm not talking about what other people get. We can't possibly compare ALL careers. There are many things teacher's don't get that other professionals do. But I'm a teacher so I can't compare myself to other professionals. For example: I have friends who have started out in their careers making 70 thousand a year and I will probably make that much the year I retire. We also don't get disability insurance so if I get sick I won't be able to collect. We don't get a yearly bonus and well, I could go on forever but that is not the topic. So please don't ask me to be greatful for getting sick days. I don't know anyone who doesn't get sick days.

As for why we should not be permanent subs. Who wants to be pregnant and have to get up each morning wondering what grade you are going to be in and moving from school to school? I know you have no idea what that would be like because your not a teacher. It's stressful.

As for the benefit of the kids? Studies have shown that kids bounce back VERY well. I'm sorry that your school district does not do a good job in ensuring that in your classrooms. I knew you had to have had a bad experience because of some of the things you have said.
And in our district you can't come and go. You either start and then leave for the year, or a sub starts and you come back. That's it.

I think it's SO funny that you said you didn't believe I liked parents that much! Talk about jumping to conclusions! I love the parents of my students, but I believe this is a very sensitive issue. People are wanting to stay home with their newborns just like any parent of any student in our school. And when parents complain about it, it really makes me sick. This is the only issue I have with SOME parents. Not all! Being a parent of a student yourself, why would you not want to be happy for your child's teacher and want her to spend the same time home with her child as you would with yours? Do you really expect teachers to ONLY have babies in the summertime? So please don't make me out to be some type of bitter teacher who hates parents because that is so far from the truth. I just have seen too many expecting teachers who have gone through hell -mostly due to parents being angry and complaining. Now teachers are hiding it because they don't want to deal. And they can't even share their good news with their coworkers.

I'm not sure what HR is but we have critical illlness days that we can use when a child or family member is in the hospital. And we only have two.

And as a new mother, I would be happy for my son's teacher if she became pregnant and needed to take time off. How could I ever be upset over this and call the principal to complain and demand that my child be placed in another classroom? It's unthinkable.

And I think we are WAY off topic so if you want to debate this some more, why don't you PM me and we can discuss this elsewhere. Sorry to the poster who started the thread.

[newMafamily]

On the topic-I suggest (aside from using uppaid leave) everyone should keep in mind that sick days may come in handy later. If you adopt a young child every time they are moved they seem to get sick agian!

Plan to save some of the paid leave money for the unpaid time (which you should be able to take). If you can -consider taking on extra work before placement for a little monetary cushion. Econimize now to finance unpaid leave. Alternate leave with your spouse if you have one.

Don't feel too bad about the inequity.In some states the pregnancy "disability benefit" is one month before delivery. It cannot be moved to post-delivery so if you don't use it you lose it. In adoption I am not sure if it would be useful to have that time pre-placement.

HR is human resources. It is what most places call the department that handles benefits. IN general they don't bend thier rules. Read the policy manual as it is the only thing that matters when you try to resolve things. If it is grey get it in writing before your leave.

For clarity sake, despite children, I never really had leave. Most of my knowledge is based on other situations with employers and advocating for peers.

BethanyB. The only thing I was trying to say to you is that we should all think about this as a larger societal issue. I also get tired of teachers whining when they have the most gauranteed time off of anyone I know. I have several collegues who have gone from teaching to corporate or vice versa and have said most teacher don't appreciate it is an excellent situation for raising a family including money. huge savings in childcare cost too.

Enough said. I 'll leave bye.

[BethanyB]

NewmaFamily, I'm not sure what town your friends have worked in but we do not make a lot of money where I teach. (And I teach in an affluent district.) And as I said, I will probably make as much money in my last year of teaching than many of my friends make in their first year at their job. They also get company cars, a yearly bonus and several weeks off for vacation time that they can take ANY time they want. And I don't know ANY single teachers at my school that don't work in the summer. We have to because we don't make enough during the school year to support ourselves over the summer. There goes that child care savings you were talking about. And one more thing...I get to work at 8:00 in the morning and leave at 4:00 in the afternoon ( ON and early day!). I get a 30 minute lunch. Please don't tell me that I have these wonderful hours and that I'm so lucky. I work just as hard as anyone else and it sickens me when people suggest that we don't. I'm not whining about any of these factors. It's my job. I love my job. What I HATE is when people like you make teachers sound like a lazy bunch of bums! You suggest that we work wonderful hours and should therefore just be so happy that we should never have any problems with our jobs! Not to mention the fact that after I work an 8 or 9 hour day, I go home to MORE work! Grading papers, and doing lesson plans, and cutting things out for the next day! Many times I'm up until 11 at night doing my JOB.
It's what I do. I help children learn and I love my students more than anything.

Maybe if you spent a day in our shoes you would know how hard we work. If you think about it...how important is our job? We are teaching the worlds children! Doctors and lawyers and sports stars are not only payed better but also respected. It's statements like yours that are pushing teachers out of the teaching field. Who wants to work their butts helping children learn when parents like you think teachers a bunch of lazy bums! We get no respect and that is where our anger comes from.
There.
I'm done too.