[mom2GRLC]

usedtobe

This original poster is adopting through fostercare....a much different scenerio than an infant adoption. A case in which a parent has not cared for her child as she should. A case where there was likely neglect or abuse.

There is no question this woman probably loved her child, but she is unable to care for him in a way that every baby has a RIGHT to be treated.

Yes this child was given a name at birth by his mother. Yes it is an important name. He will always be that same child....removing his name won't erase that part of his history and identity.

But truthfully the person he was destined to be as her child...with her as his MOMMY just isn't possible anymore.

He has a new MOMMY in his life. Not one that will ever replace his first MOMMY, but one that is equally important to him in a differnt way. One who will love and care for him and provide for him for the rest of his life, in a way that his first Mommy couldn't.

Adoption is like a re-birth. He is spiritually, physically and emotionally born into that new family. Of course not in the same way he was born into his first family but in a very special and necessary way for his safety and future. He is still the same child, the same spirit but he does in a sense become a new person. A new start at life. A new family. A new future. His new family and his new MOMMY have just as much right to name him and give him a piece of her heart and identity as he birthmother had when she gave birth to him.

I think the key is always letting a child know and be proud of not only their present and future but also their past. Always sharing the special way they came into their family and all the people they have blessed along the way in their journey in life. Always sharing with him stories of his past and heritage and letting him know how special that is and how special it will alwyas be, because it made him into the person he is and will become. It will always be a part of who he is.

I think it is the adoptive parents job to share all that stuff with the child growing up. I think it's when a child is either not told or are made to feel bad about their pasts when they have trouble finding themselves and understanding their identities.

[mom2GRLC]

My point about the real world....was that I feel that if you did a poll of normal everyday people you meet in your community you would find that the percentage of people's negative opions on adoption issues would be much less than that of the much higher consentration on negative or very strong opinions that you will find on these boards. I feel that all the "happy...well adjusted adoptees/birthparents" would probably have no need to come to these boards for advice and support, so that would account for the higher concentration of those that do have issues regarding adoption.

Make any sense? Don't know if I can explain it right.

So yes...when we all get together and talk there is a lot of very strong opinions built from a lifetime of hurt, frustration, and pain. So there is a greater feeling of defensiveness when our feelings are not being validated or are being confronted.

[NDN]

Originally Posted by usedtobe

It is an act of betrayal to deny a child and his/her mother the name she chose and decided to give at birth. A woman gifted her baby with a name that will forever identify that soul to the mommy's heart. But New People denied that gift to mom and baby

Ok...I would like to ask a question then.

In our family, all of our children have several names (and no I don't mean first/middle/last). Prior to the birth of each of our bios they were given a name in my language before an English name was chosen. Their english name (which is actually their second name is their legal name). They will likely be given a name in dh's language within the next few years. If not by then, they will receive one around the time of their manhood ceremonies. Also, if there is some sort of extraordinary event in their lives, they may receive another name. There is potential for them to receive a host of names throughout their lives...or simply very long names if it is decided to just add to their already sizable names.

Any children that we adopt will be raised in this manner as well. No new name severs any old relations or experiences, in our worldview. So, then, would it be an act of betrayal to change their given name to another name of significance? Names ARE a huge part of identity, I understand. However, identity is formed and evolves over time (ergo, the continual renaming of people). We chose to make our sons' english names their legal names for simplicity on their parts. After their manhood ceremonies, when they are essentially considered adults, they will be free to change it...and, quite possibly may have many choices to pick from.

So, then...would I be wrong, coming from this vantage point to change the name of a child when it may not necessarily be a safety issue? Does it change anything that the child would know their first given name, as is the case with another poster?

[Umbilical child]

Originally Posted by mom2GRLC

My point about the real world....was that I feel that if you did a poll of normal everyday people you meet in your community you would find that the percentage of people's negative opions on adoption issues would be much less than that of the much higher consentration on negative or very strong opinions that you will find on these boards. I feel that all the "happy...well adjusted adoptees/birthparents" would probably have no need to come to these boards for advice and support, so that would account for the higher concentration of those that do have issues regarding adoption.

Make any sense? Don't know if I can explain it right.

So yes...when we all get together and talk there is a lot of very strong opinions built from a lifetime of hurt, frustration, and pain. So there is a greater feeling of defensiveness when our feelings are not being validated or are being confronted.

Whether it be on these boards or out in the REAL world I am yet to meet an adoptee that hasn't had issues around being adopted......and believe me I have met more than a few.....and you raise another very good point that of the broader community and it's opinions on adoption, not a lot understanding out there....the crap that goes along with adoption is very much real and you may think it is only those who have negitive experiences who will have issues around their identities....please believe me on this one, the MAJORITY of adoptees have huge inner and sometimes outer struggles with self identity and those issues can manifest and infect other areas of their lives........It is not because I am some tortured damaged soul that I believe the name swap is bad, it is because I have firm beliefs based on my own identity struggles, not based on my assumptions of what the majority believe.......I was adopted as an infant and again I say I am so glad to have retained my name....

[mom2GRLC]

I'm just curious how you feel about an adopted child taking on the last name of the adopted family in place of their original last name.

Does that make any difference in how you feel? Or should the whole original name be left alone? What do you feel is best for the child? If it is ok to take on the last name....then why would it not be ok to change the first name or middle name or both, or what about the case where it is the same name just a longer version of it(as the original poster stated)...like changing the name from Zack to Zackary...or Alex to Alexander. Does that in your opinion really damage the child and cause a lifetime of identity issues?

[Umbilical child]

I really don't think you get the point....there are issues and the name change gig is just one of those....something symbolic of who you are...something to carry with you...something to let you know that your Identity started at birth.....yeah keep coming back at me with trivia, my view will not change, just as my name did not change and part, if only a small part, of me remains intact.........Do you honestly believe you can understand what an adoptee goes through when they question their identity?......

[amylauren3030]

I posted this thread a while back...was just curious as to how others felt...never really meant to start anything. The little boy that was in question is being adopted by another family, by the way...we are very excited for him.
We weren't through with our paperwork and they came along and fell in love with him. Sometimes it happens like that, and well, God knows best. Obviously, he was not "our" baby.
I feel I upset Umbilical Child. Mmmm...didn't mean to. I have given my own thread more and more thought and prayer and decided that:
1) If we adopt an infant that is too young to know any different, we will definitely change their name if we are not fond of their birth name...after all, if we had given birth, we would have been the ones to name the child and after all, we ARE the parents.
2) If we adopt older children, we will allow them to be part of the process. If they want to change their name, we will, and if not, we won't...just that simple.
When you adopt a child at birth or older, they become a part of your family...thus they should be entitled to all the things that come with your family, traditions, habits, and namesakes...after all, the adoptive granny and gramps, aunts and uncles, etc. are the ones that are going to be their for the scraped knees, birthday parties, etc.
Just my thoughts. You don't have to agree with me.
We hope to begin classes as soon as our criminal background checks clear.
God bless all of you that love your children, be they adopted, or by birth...would a rose by any other name smell as sweet? It is so good we have freedom of thought and speech.

[usedtobe]

Originally Posted by mom2GRLC

I'm just curious how you feel about an adopted child taking on the last name of the adopted family in place of their original last name.

Does that in your opinion really damage the child and cause a lifetime of identity issues?

At the age of 35, while sitting in a tiny suffocating office, from a sheet of type-written paper in my shaking hands, given to me by a complete stranger, I learned for the first time, MY name. First. Middle. Last.

Does it change identity? In order for identity to Change, a person needs to have one, in the first place. I have always been told to do what I was told to do, and be whatever it was they told me to be, only better. I have never in my life been told by the people who claim to have loved me, to be who I AM.

Having been given the name my mom CHOSE for me... and finding out she had me baptised in the hospital she had spent a few days with me, to this day, I cannot visualize that moment she had to leave me, without it making me die just a little bit, inside of me. My Mommy named me, but the shrew wouldn't allow me to have and keep what was given to me, by my mom. It is a grief and sadness I cannot explain. Adding to that grief of betrayal, I did and STILL feel a contempt for a woman who would take it upon herself to change an entire name, leave no remnant behind, and then hide the truth, just like nothing was ever to happen until SHE came along.

I had a sense there was a possibility I had "another" first name, when I was 10, and saw a letter on the shrew's desk from the agency they had used to purchase me. On the letter was a thick line drawn with a black marker, within the 1st paragraph. All I had to do was tilt the page, to see the type imprints on the page. I remember 2 things (since I was maybe 10 at the time...) 1) Seeing this Name was like seeing my mom, without knowing her face. I FELT my name. Not as I would if I identified with the name, but I FELT the name a mommy gave her little girl. and 2) When I asked the shrew the direct question: did I have an original name? she said "no." I had told her I saw this black marker on this paper, and it looked as if that name blackened out was MY name. The woman looked square in my eyes and said "That was a typo. They don't even have money for white-out. That's how poor they are Up There."

At the age of 35, while studying this Name that was supposed to be Mine, I just sat. Speechless. And then I looked. And looked. Deeper and deeper, as if to become one with the ink and paper. I wanted... no, I needed to get closer to the date and time that name was written on that very paper. But I knew I couldn't. So I sat. And stared. And then it began to hit. Like a slow-motion crushing blow to the stomach, I felt the first growing choke. And then the tear. And at that moment, I knew I was forever a changed Thing. A mommy-less person who suddenly had a Real Chosen name, given to me by my mommy. That's when I began to cry. A few tears at first. But then a drop fell on the paper. So I cried, and cried and cried. I cried so hard, the SW with me began sobbing. It was, and remains, the cry a child has for her mommy, when she's lost and scared, and afraid the mommy had already left leaving the little girl behind...but without ever realizing it, (because no one ever told the little girl) Mommy was just a few steps away... calling me by My Name, I just never recognized the name that woman was calling.

A name is nothing, or it's EVERYTHING... it all depends on who gives and who receives that name

[stephieb4]

Our daughter was just over 2 when we were chosen as her forever family. Her birthmother had given her a name that was both unique and easily trackable. Our daughter was from a neglectful home with drug abuse, domestic violence & mental issues. And her birth grandma even pushed for our family to chose a different name for her. We didn't change her first name drastically. We actually made her nickname her first name, since she was clearly old enough to recognize it. And we did change her middle name to one of our choice. We do plan to tell our daughter her original birth name, her story of adoption and any other tidbits of info we were able to find out. Foster care adoption IS much different than at birth adoption. In foster care adoption, children have come from a world of abuse and very unsafe situations. Not from birthparents who have made the hard decision to place their children into loving homes. We felt changing our daughter's name wasn't just about entitlement as her new parents, but also for her safety. The age of computers has made it VERY easy to track anyone.

[MamaTo6]

I too changed my sons name when we adopted from foster care. Our son was 15 months old. We did not change his given names at all or even his last name. Example is given names...Brian John Smith. We changed it to Steven Brian John Smith Ourlastname. We did not want to take anything away from our son, but we did want to name him for safety concerns as well as personal reasons. Our son and DH's first names are now the same.


We didnt do this with no thought. We thought long and hard about it and decided that this was the best way FOR OUR FAMILY, and especially our son.

I pray We haven't in any way caused our son more harm or any emotional trauma by changing his name. I hope we lessened any hurt by keeping his full original name as part of his now name.

Ofcourse he will always know the story of his name.

[mom2GRLC]

usedtobe

I'm sorry you feel the way you do....

Honestly I stopped reading your post when you refered to your adoptive mom as a SHREW.

Your opinion...your feelings....your situation have no relevance to my families situation and I find your tone about it very disrespectful. I don't think any of us are saying we are going to hide our childs birthname or history from them. I hope by our LOVING words/actions to our children that they will grow into who THEY want to be....in our home they will have that opportunity, rather than living a life of neglect and abuse with their birthfamilies.

I'm sorry adoption has been so tramamtic in your life and your adoptive parents didn't handle things the way you would have liked them to. Who knows what kind of life you would have had with your birthfamily? Who knows if you'd be just as angry at them but for different reasons had you been raised by them?

Foster adoption is much different than infant adoption!!!

[Umbilical child]

Originally Posted by mom2GRLC

usedtobe

I'm sorry you feel the way you do....

Honestly I stopped reading your post when you refered to your adoptive mom as a SHREW.

Your opinion...your feelings....your situation have no relevance to my families situation and I find your tone about it very disrespectful. I don't think any of us are saying we are going to hide our childs birthname or history from them. I hope by our LOVING words/actions to our children that they will grow into who THEY want to be....in our home they will have that opportunity, rather than living a life of neglect and abuse with their birthfamilies.

I'm sorry adoption has been so tramamtic in your life and your adoptive parents didn't handle things the way you would have liked them to. Who knows what kind of life you would have had with your birthfamily? Who knows if you'd be just as angry at them but for different reasons had you been raised by them?

Foster adoption is much different than infant adoption!!!

And I guess this is the cruxt of it...there are many adoptees out there who are in pain and hurting...there are many who are lost and bewildered there are some who are quite content and there are those who have had unimaginable crosses to bear.......so deep to the core is this stuff that perhaps it is impossible to sympathise but, and this is a huge BUT, we all have a history that shapes us and brings us to where we are now......
The wonderful thing about this forum is that we can share this history and we can vent our frustrations in a safe environment that is made up of people from differing corners of the triad.....those same people can bring differing points of view and those same people can take a nano second to view all posts made by others........
as for people expressing their their shock at someone's tone or apparent direspect perhaps it would be a good idea for them to take that time and pour over a few other posts submitted by the offending party....then one might get an insight into the terrible injustices and abuse , both sexual and mental that the offending party may have been exposed to......then an opinion can be gleamed and comment made.........what is offensive is when a person pours their heart out for all to see and the response is one that states that their opinion and FEELINGS are irrelevent............

Usedtobe, your post touched me and I personally thank you for being so brave with your emotion, particulally with what I have read on your other posts... J

[amylauren3030]

Oh my gawsh!!!
This is a first. I have never written a negative response on the forums...but my buttons have been pushed to the max...Get over it!!
I'm sorry that you both hate being adopted so bad...I feel very bad for you if you had a troubled childhood, and I DO sympathize with you...but you know what? we ALL have problems. I don't know what kind of problems you had, because you did not specify...but I can just about bet that changing your name had nothing to do with your attitude or the way you view life.
My step-son moved out because he thought it was unfair that everyone elses mom and dad bought them a new car and I wanted him to get a job and buy his own...boo hoo hoo....mean ole parents wanted him to earn his way. He probably calls me a shrew too and I KNOW for a fact that I have treated him well and loved him in the 6 years that I raised him.
When do people that go around blaming others for their problems finally except some responsibility? We are talking about foster children that have been abused, neglected, shattered...real trauma...my son said he didn't care about any foster kids...taking care of them would take away from what he wants. Get over it. Now he tells everyone he had such a terrible upbringing...once again, boo hoo hoo. I have raised 5 children, 1 whiny one out of 5 is not bad odds. My childhood was not perfect and I bet you will find that none of the other members were either. Life is not perfect. My step-son's mom died...and he has this fantasy that he would have had a PERFECT life if she had lived... Doubt it...perhaps you would have had a perfect life if your bmom had raised you?
I think I am appropriate in saying that we ALL sympathize with your feelings, but WE are good adoptive homes and we love our children...whatever their name is. Their names will be reflective of their new family and the love we share...obviously, their bfamily could NOT provide that or we wouldn't be allowed to adopt them.
OK I feel better. May be banned, but I feel better.

[Umbilical child]

Originally Posted by amylauren3030

Oh my gawsh!!!
This is a first. I have never written a negative response on the forums...but my buttons have been pushed to the max...Get over it!!
I'm sorry that you both hate being adopted so bad...I feel very bad for you if you had a troubled childhood, and I DO sympathize with you...but you know what? we ALL have problems. ....so let's just trivialise them...I don't know what kind of problems you had, because you did not specify...but I can just about bet that changing your name had nothing to do with your attitude or the way you view life. Hmmmm....
My step-son moved out because he thought it was unfair that everyone elses mom and dad bought them a new car and I wanted him to get a job and buy his own...boo hoo hoo..and this is linked to our comments..mean ole parents wanted him to earn his way. He probably calls me a shrew too and I KNOW for a fact that I have treated him well and loved him in the 6 years that I raised him. ...well not buying a car for him is slightly different to some of the problems Usedtobe has posted.....(do a quick search for them)..Boo Hoo Hoo does not come close to the sobbing of helpless/hopelessness she has described...or if I may say the darkness and despair I am drowning in at the moment.......
When do people that go around blaming others for their problems finally except some responsibility?
Gee didn't seem to have much choice at eleven days old...and blame is just one of the mixed up emotions adoptees suffer from, as well as guilt, sorrow, confusion,pain,thankfulness,lonelyness, misunderstood, misfit...etc etc. etc and a bit of a burden to fully and finally except.......We are talking about foster children that have been abused, neglected, shattered...real trauma..and Usedtobe's posts reflect the same (substitute fostered with adopted).my son said he didn't care about any foster kids...taking care of them would take away from what he wants. Get over it. Now he tells everyone he had such a terrible upbringing...once again, boo hoo hoo. I have raised 5 children, 1 whiny one out of 5 is not bad odds. Something to be proud of...My childhood was not perfect and I bet you will find that none of the other members were either. Life is not perfect. My step-son's mom died...and he has this fantasy that he would have had a PERFECT life if she had lived... Doubt it...perhaps you would have had a perfect life if your bmom had raised you? Indeed......
I think I am appropriate in saying that we ALL sympathize with your feelings, but WE are good adoptive homes and we love our children.No-one said otherwise but aparently we are not good adoptees because we have not gotten over the hurt that has followed us...sympathize...well I am not so sure..whatever their name is. Their names will be reflective of their new family and the love we share...obviously, their bfamily could NOT provide that or we wouldn't be allowed to adopt them.
OK I feel better. May be banned, I hope you are not banned as you have every right to express your point of view...as do I....but I feel better.

Somethings just take a life time to come to terms with.....

[sammyhas3]

"I will agree with you that some people should not adopt...sounds like that may have been your deal,
regardless, you really should try to find a way to let go of your bitterness"



REALLY DEAL with your bitterness.......... what a mean thing to say Did this person Have a choice ......... no they were a child ,,,, if given the choice I am sure that any adopted child would have liked to be with a birthparent .... they are not given that choice to take away the one and only thing they were given at birth is wrong