[Ladyofmoonlight]

Okay, I'm not sure where to post this but as I think it's attachment related I figured this might be the place to ask. I could really use any advice with handling my mother! She just doesn't GET that she has to treat me like my son's mother and it's really harming him when we're around her.

Okay, so for background: My son came home last November from Ethiopia on his "official" 2nd birthday (probably more like 18-20 mos then). He'd been through a few caretakers already: His parents, who passed on, then an aunt who simply didn't have the resources to care for him, then his nanny and the other nannies at the orphanange, and then onto us. He was one of the shyest kids at the orphanage, cried a lot, and shrieked his head off for the first few days we had him. No honeymoon period with this kid! We'd been planning to do a steady move over from his nanny to us during the course of our week there (not long enough!) but realized that wasn't working and in the short time we had we figured it would be better to simply take custody and be his only caretakers 24/7. That worked pretty much, except that the nannies kept trying to take him from us to "help" (works with most kids and the parents appreciate it) but this would always set us back to square one so we ended up spending a loooot of time in our room and we wore him for days, other than when he slept at night (took naps on us). His feet didn't touch the floor for like the first 3 days we had him!

He actually bonded pretty quickly and has been steadily getting better and better. By the time we reached our airport he was showing us shy smiles, within a week of being home he decided I was mommy and tried to nurse, and within a month or so he was pretty much totally comfortable with us. Everyone who sees him (social workers, Drs, other adoptive families, etc) all can't believe how well attached he is. He's just a happy, giggly, smart, talkative, energetic and generally well behaved but still mischievous little boy, and he's become very attached to both my husband and I, almost without question.

There's only one problem: My mother.

My mother, as well meaning as she may be, continuously usurps my role. He's a little hurt? She shoves everyone out of the way to go help him and I can't get to him. She feeds him all the time without asking me first if it's okay, even if I'm giving him food myself. She picks him up and walks off with him when we're out, she always has to repeat what I say if I ask him something (ex. "you need to go potty" "Oh, do you need to go potty Paxie? Go potty with Mama? Hmm? Potty?"), she immediately answers for me when people ask how he's doing, calls him "my boy" or "my baby" and refuses to call him something else saying "he's your son but he's MY baby!", literally won't leave him alone for a second when she's near, follows us around when we're with him even to the bathroom where she'll open the door and just stare at him grinning, etc. I've asked her repeatedly to stop doing certain things, like "please don't just grab him from the carseat while I'm getting my things and walk off with him and scare the crap out of my because my son is missing" or "please stop feeding him sweet things while I'm trying to feed him real food," you know, things that make sense. She even just grabbed him on our first day at church after coming home! Everyone was there to greet us at the door and she just grabbed him and walked off, smiling triumphantly, made it almost to the door with us yelling "hey, stop! Come back! Can you let me hold my son please?" We finally got her to stop close to the entrance and she seemed shocked that we'd want to hold our new son...

She's relatively good about listening to me now, and she is trying I think, but... she just doesn't get it! I'm not sure if it's her very competitive nature coming out that makes her do this or if she really just is that blinded by loving him or what.

Either way it shouldn't matter because it's HURTING him. He's always happy to see her but after some time with her he's often unhappy with me, and the longer our time is with her the less he even is willing to listen to me or make eye contact with me. I thought I was just being petty or that this was just normal until today.

Today was the first time she watched him by herself for any significant amount of time while he was awake. I had a Drs apt and he freaks out in Drs offices (so many shots since coming home!), so my mom volunteered to stay with him in the waiting room and play with the kids stuff there. The appointment took forever, almost 2 hours because I was a new patient, and by the time I came out he wanted NOTHING to do with me. My mother says he was a perfect angel, and come to find out she went ahead and fed him food AGAIN when she didn't ask me if it was okay (I brought a snack, showed it to her, she nodded and failed to tell me she brought her own snack that she shared with him after I left). Not a big deal, though her repeatedly doing that when I ask her not to bothers me to no end.

The big thing was how he reacted to being alone with her for 2 hours. He only wanted her and when he saw me he acted almost exactly how he did back at the orphanage. No eye contact except for when he'd turn to slap or punch as hard as he could (pretty hard, cheek still stings a tiny bit), and he was shrieking, sobbing uncontrollably, kept throwing himself to the floor, throwing shoes, hitting me with his shoe, kicking, spitting, screaming at me and scolding me, etc. He does not act like this normally! It was awful, a complete repeat of where he was 6.5 months ago only every now and then he's stop screaming for a second and cry "huuuuug!" and reach for me and held on so tight.... I just about started sobbing myself. My mother, of course, kept trying to tell me that he was only upset because I was gone for so long and it's natural for kids to be angry (thanks mom, really need you lecturing at me while I'm trying to calm my kid down).

After 20+ minutes of him not calming down we got him in the car and drove around for a bit (made him calm) then went to lunch. Big mistake. My mother fed him AGAIN even though I keep asking her not too! Feeding is like the biggest attachment tool we had and what really seemed to bond him to us was us feeding him. So there we are at the restaurant, he's pretty calmed down, and I'm putting food on his plate and suddenly my mother just hands him some of her food without asking, makes sure to place it right in his hand and smile and, of course, he turns to look at me then starts shrieking his lungs off! He wouldn't stop! We had to leave the restaurant while he was holding onto my shoulder, half hugging and half slapping.

I'm so frustrated now! We keep telling my mom that she HAS to respect us as his parents, that she HAS to stop doing these little things that usurp our roles because he's picking up on it! And given that he's already lost 3 mother figures I'm not surprised at all that he's still questioning whether or not her acting like his mom all the time means that I'm actually not going to be his mom forever.

I would worry that it's the time I spend away from him that's upsetting him but it's not. I can leave him in the church nursery for forever and he's a happy camper! Same with friends watching him for a bit. None of them try to act like his mother, all defer to me, all show respect for me, and he's so much happier in these situations.

I just have no idea how to handle my mother! I have no doubt that she loves my son and I know she's trying very hard to be a good grandmother to him, but she just doesn't get this attachment stuff even though we've spoken to her at length about it! It just boggles my mind!

Okay, so I do not want to turn my son into a bargaining chip, and I don't want to cut my mother out of his life (we're down to one visit a week as is), but I'm just not sure how I can make her understand that she NEEDS to listen to us, and yes sometimes we are going to sound bizarrely strict to her and yeah sometimes we are overreacting, but we're still his parents and we only have his best interests at heart.

And if you could have seen his face while he was crying today... all red and poofy and angry and sad and just PETRIFIED, with tears streaked down and a runny nose, and that scared look in his eyes... It was like I felt my heart tearing in two for him and he was hitting me but also hugging soooooo tight, nails dug into my skin...

Sooo, any advice on how to educate my mother, set ultimatums, deal with this at all but still have her be a part of his life? Because general conversation and even pleading doesn't seem to be helping (maybe a bit but not as much as we need).

If you can't offer advice, care to commiserate? I can't be the only one who's family members just don't understand that while he's "normal" 99.99% of the time he's still going to have that fear there, and while he's pretty much fully attached yeah he's still not done attaching and things can still happen to set us back.

In case y'all are wondering, he was happy as a clam this afternoon after spending a few hours alone at home with mommy and daddy, playing and hugging and eating daddy's bday cake (or at least the little sugar soccer balls he chose to decorate it). Doesn't look like any long term damage from earlier, but I do not want it happening again if I can help it!

Oh, and sorry it's so long! I think I'm literally incapable of writing anything short.

[xxsurroundedbyxy]

Ok....obviously your first child....but what you have just described IS every grandma in America.

You do have to set some limits, but for some of it, let it go. She LOVES him and truly treats him like every other biological nana. Instead of a disturbing story about how she treats him differently than her other grandchildren or refers to him as your "adopted son"......she is acting like the proud grandma of a lovely little boy. I think it is awesome!

Kim

[greenrobin]

Awesome that she loves him, yes! But the interference?NOT.

I can't tell you about adopted kids and grandmas, but I know that with our first four kids, my MIL was a butter-inner, if you know what I mean. To the point that she told the kids that they didn't have to listen to me when we were at her house. In front of the kids I said, "Yes, they do. They are your grandchildren, but they are my children. I am their mother everywhere and they must obey me at all times." Yep, caused an argument, but she backed off.

The only advice I have is to stop asking her and just tell her. Mom, I love you and you gave me a wonderful example of how to be a mom. But, Mom, I will carry my son. Mom, you will not take the baby/feed the baby/repeat/etc, without my permission. As uncomfortable as it is, I'm thinking that your mom doesn't realize how much she's overstepping. And, as uncomfortable as it might be, you will have to have this conversation with her with your dh in attendance, maybe at a restaurant without the baby, so that you can talk to each other like adults.

Speaking as a mom of adult kids, sometimes we forget that you are really grown and know how to do things. Remind her gently. And be prepared for her to be defensive. She's trying to find her way in this new relationship.

[crick]

Personally I'd be cocooning completely for awhile. Yes, it's great and awesome that your mom loves her role as gramma and is so readily there to help out and really loves him. However..toddler, bonding, previous history of caretakers etc., definitely necessary imo, to really focus on YOU and Dad being the ONLY caretakers.

You absolutely need to be the only ones meeting his needs. The food, the naps, dressing, all the things a child learns from the get go what a mom does, those things must come from you.

There are some books on attachment that she could read if you think she'd be open to that? Maybe she needs to hear it from someone other than you to understand you are not trying to shut her out but rather help your son.

Is there anyway you could take a 2 week break at all? I'd say a month if you could do it, but I'm sure that would be hard. When she does visit, can you have it during non feeding times & non nap/cuddle time? What I'm seeing from your post is anxious attachment so I do feel you have a bit more time to go before full attachment happens. (that's just my opinion and isn't meant to be scary or to say what you are doing isn't working, it IS! Just think it takes a bit more time)

Grandmas are great and you are blessed to have her be so interested and into her role. But yes, I think you need to set some really clear boundaries with her on the food and allowing you to meet his caretaking needs full on.

[rottymom]

You described my MIL...loves her grandkids but doesn't understand. I have to take breaks from grandma, because even after I explain old habits are hard to break. One thing that has worked for me is giving grandma a whole day with baby to spoil. I get a day off and grandma gets to spoil. I take a few weeks staying home (not allowing visitors) and bonding and then ask grandma to babysit. Bonding is such a slow process sometimes but he will...and he will understand the difference between you and grandma.

[ca-bigsister]

I would get the books to your mother. That way it's not you being the attachment expert (even though obviously you are).

She may or may not read them, but it is often hard for parents to hear "parenting" advice from their own children. But she might be more open to it if she heard it from an expert or someone she respects - I don't know who that is for you, but maybe she has a good friend, a doctor friend, or someone you could talk to or hopefully someone who really understands about attachment issues.

Our parents love us but sometimes they don't "respect" us as they do an authority figure so they don't want to hear expert advice from us.

My mom was a teacher and I never really respected her expertise until I became a teacher then I wanted her advice all of the time. It's often hard for parents to really hear anything from their kids.

[MamaS]

I agree with Kim. That is every doting grandmother in America -- maybe in the whole world. She knows you are his parents. But she is the GRANDMOTHER. When I brought my 2-year-old daughter home, my mother was convinced that no one could tuck her in for the night the way she did. She would "drop in" at bedtime, wait until I had tucked little Sissy in and then just "go in to say goodnight" (and tell a story and sing a song and do a prayer -- again!) She did finally stop, but by then it was too late and Sissy expected me to do two songs, two stories, etc.
About the food issue: Let her give him some special "grandmother treat" that you don't give him -- something he will associate with her. I give my grandchildren strawberry marshmallows. My 2-year-old grandaughter will stand in front of the cabinet and say "Nack, gannie, nack" which of course means "give me a handful of strawberry marshmallows for a snack, Grandma." Her mother thinks she should not have any sugar, but now I am Grandma and I know best! LOL

[LibbyHawkins]

Your thinking is absolutely right, get her a book on attachment, if she won't read it or refuses to agree to what is obvious to those of us having lived through this . . . you MUST take a break from her.

I had close friends that refused to believe this "nonsense" - we are longer close. This was my child, if they couldn't allow me to do what was necessary for him to bond properly and learn normalcy, then I had to cut them out. They flat out refused. You probably can't do that with your Mom, but staying away for a bit has to be done.

Hopefully the books will help her to understand the seriousness of what you are saying.

We do understand, this is not a normal situation, yes she is being a normal grandmother, but your situation requires differences for normal bonding. He will bond to her fine, AFTER he bonds to you and his Daddy.

[momraine]

One thing I have found sometimes helps with meddling relatives is to try to get them on your side. Talk to her about the problems you are having with someone else, or about someone on here having a problem with thier mil or mom. I did not have a lot of these problems, but my good friend did. She solved it by asking her mil to give her advice on how to get her sister to stop meddling. The real issue was her mil meddling. She talked about how the doctors and other experts had said that only mom and dad should feed and hold them and such, but that she was having trouble getting this throug to sis. (again it was really mil that she had trouble getting through to) I guess it was sort of dishonest, but it worked. Everytime they were at a family gathering mil would push everyone away and tell them not to feed the baby. (she would especially push the sister, but the sister knew about the issues and didn't mind, and they did a lot of seperate sister time as they had kids the same age)
Anyway, maybe something like that. That way she is not so defensive, it's not you telling her she is wrong, it's you asking for advice.

[mrsred]

ladyofmoonlight, I am going to tell you to do something that will be very difficult, but if you can pull it off, it could be efective. You did a very, very good job of describing your problem in your post here. In the post I can read how much you love your mother and do not want to hurt her. You obviously know exactly what your son needs for bonding.
So, I suggest that you sit down with Mom and say "Mom, I know how much you love me, and how much you love Paxie. I know that your intentions are good, but what is happening is not helping him. I have been trying to find a way to make you understand, and I have even posted on an adoption chat site for advice, One of the other women there suggested I let you read my post. So, here it is. I hope that you can read this with an open mind, and understand how much I love you. I do want you to be a part of his life, but you need to understand what he is going through, and what he needs right now." You may also want to print out some of the responses you have gotten here, letting your mom know that many of the responses have come from parents experienced in adopting children that have attachment needs.
If all else fails, maybe suggest she go to Ethiopia, or some other country and adopt a child of her own. Sounds like she needs to be nurturing, so may as well put that to good use!

[Ladyofmoonlight]

Wow, thank you for all of the helpful replies! I wasn't able to respond for a couple days (computer issues) but I opened up a dialogue with my mother on the way to church on Sunday. I figured that would be easiest since we were all in the car together so I would keep it light, and I could have my husband there to back me up. Turns out she was just as freaked out by Paxton's reactions last Thursday as I was so I think that alone made her a firm believer in the need for attachment.

Our conversation wasn't all that in depth but it's a start, you know? Essentially I told her "you're a normal, nice grandma and you and he have a nice relationship that I want to preserve. However, he's still bonding, he's been through multiple caretakers, he may not even have the concept of "grandma" internalized (vs mother), and he's getting confused. I'm going to lay down some ground rules that may sound way too strict and which you might not agree with but they're for the protection of my son." My mother was surprisingly willing to listen and agree. I'm sure this isn't even close to the end of any conflicts we might have about this (haha, if only!), but it's a start.

One thing that I hadn't taken into consideration is that she'd never seen Paxton upset before, other than when he was hurt. Here I was thinking she'd be unwilling to consider a change, but apparently seeing her grandson screaming and crying and hitting and just not stopping really opened her eyes. I don't think she believed me when I told her how he could be before! She actually just came over for about 15 minutes and was veeery respectful to me, and asked before doing anything with Paxton. Right now we're trying to cut back, not cut out, so she can hold him but only for a short period of time. The woman has back problems and she'd be picking up this 31 lb boy and holding him for 1/2 hour straight until she could hardly walk! Now we're down to "a quick hug and kiss" or "sitting beside you, not on you, to play" and not being alone with him without me there.

I'm still going to pick up some books on attachment at the library for her to read, just so she understands it (and I should probably reread as well). I think one of our big problems is that he's just so "normal" most of the time, and acts so heavily attached, that we often forget that it's a process that's still happening.

If my mother and I do end up having problems with this again in the future, after reading up on attachment, I'll try some of y'alls suggestions. As I mentioned my mother can be very competitive and she's often comparing herself to other grandmothers we know, usually trying to outdo them and do the exact opposite of anything they did that she perceived negatively (which means she can do some very odd things sometimes). As for nurturing someone, tonight when she came over she took one of our cats from us so hopefully that will help. 2 of our cats haven't been doing well since Pax came home (and 2 have been doing better. Odd.), and we're still working with one but the one she took is just miserable and refuses to come near us, but cuddles with my mom like crazy when she comes over. So she now has an 8 year old cat desperate for attention and cuddles at her house, hopefully that will help some (this adds to her other 2 cats and 2 dogs). My husband and I did consider doing an outright vacation from her for awhile, which we've informed her we may have to do if we feel it's necessary, but for now we're just keeping with short periods of time, mommy and/or daddy still being in control and Gambi just adding a bit but not taking over.

[Mom2blessings]

I'm sure your mom loves you but you mentioned something that caused my ears to perk up. You said grandma may just be competitive. I take it this has been an issue before?

Either way it wouldn't matter to me as to WHY she's doing this. The bottom line is you feel she's harming your son. Therefore, IMO, you should put your son's best interest first and get REALLY firm with g-ma.

Personally, if this were me (and I've been there before to an extent), I would tell g-ma that she is harming your son by doing things that are interfering with his health, emotional/psychological and physical. Therefore, from here on out, I would no longer use her as a babysitter until she understands the rules and follows them. AND for now on, if she does something that you ask her not to do, I would leave and go home, removing my son from the situation. I would tell Mom that I love her dearly and that I don't want to hurt her feelings, but son's health must come first. Then stick to it. Don't ask her to babysit. If you go to eat, deliberately put son's chair away from g-ma (remind her she's not to feed him, if she doesn't listen, tell her you have to go...take 2 vehicles no matter where you go, so you are always free to leave). Her bonding with son must take second place to your bonding with son...for your health and his.

[beverlyanderic]

Wow, what a story! Hopefully things are turning around since your post. I really like one of the previous posts about approaching your mom for advice and support with these concerns. If your situation was different (and in a year or two it probably will be), your mom's efforts can truly be considered "awesome" like someone else posted here. I can see how these behaviors certainly are NOT awesome right now.

I want to offer a little support by way of our similarities. My son, Octavio, sounds a lot like Pax. His personality is fun-loving, energetic and easy-going. People frequently comment about how unusually good-natured and friendly he is. He does so well almost all of the time, but there are weird moments that other people explain away. He cries upon reunion with me if I was gone more than, like, a half hour. He is mad at me, hugging and crying and hitting me... this is strange, and not "normal" like people try to tell me. There are other things (like excessive affection for adult women acquaintances or sleep issues) that people say are just part of his personality, but I have to dig into my maternal instincts and trust myself. I know him better than anyone. That's the bottom line for me. Sounds like it is for you, too. (By the way, over the months that Octavio is home with us, I read and reread information about anxious attachment. I saw that someone else posted about Pax having similar symptoms. Bringing this particular type of attachment to your mom's attention may help her understand. And it's better than having her sift through all kinds of peripheral information in those big books.)

I anticipated that my mom would be a little like your mom. She's like that with some of her other grandkids (my nephews especially). Prior to the adoption placement, I talked firmly about my concerns with attachment. I explained all the steps that families take to build it, including no visitors for months. I said that I didn't want to go that far, but I would if I needed to. I made statements about no babysitting Octavio until attachment was strong, blah blah blah. Since meeting him for the first time, my mother is so distant from Octavio. She acts aloof, uncomfortable with him. I tried to get her and him to dance to a song together one time, but she didn't act fun at all. Of course, he didn't want her to hold him! It's weird... as if she's on the other end of the spectrum from your mom now. I'm letting this ride for a bit until I am more certain of my and Octavio's attachment. After awhile, I hope to help them build a relationship. Similarly, my father is super strict with his other grandkids. I simply don't want my parents thinking that it's their place to discipline Octavio. Plus, they do it so differently than I do! I haven't had to broach this topic with them, yet, but it is the reason that I have never left him alone with my parents more than the two minutes I had to go to the bathroom or get something from the car.

I have a couple of ideas that might help differentiate you and your mom. Since feeding is the big bonding tool for you, ensure that you feed him like no one else does. Use your mouth to pass food to him and him to you. Would your mother do that? Seems like my family is weirded out by this bonding tool, so they won't do it. Just my hubby and I do this with Octavio. In the same vein as this idea, let him feed you with his hands. Although he may let others taste his food this way, you can tickle his fingers/hand with your teeth and tongue, something that other people probably won't do.

To help differentiate the mother figures in his life from your role as his mom, show him pictures of your mom while explaining that she is not his mom. Say that she loves him, a lot of people do. Explore what love means, and talk about how you love differently because you are his mom. Use the words "always," "forever," "constant," and "never-ending." It's not like you will say that your mom or others can't love him constantly, but this gives the opportunity to reassure that you will, no matter what.

Make sure that he doesn't see pictures of your mom holding him, at least for a long while. Instead, have pictures of her and you. Show him pictures of you and him. Talk about the differences. You can always give him a complete album when he's older and your attachment process is further along.

Do you cosleep? This is a huge differentiating opportunity. Even if others want to lay down with him or put him to bed, it's an easy thing for you to control (i.e. no babysitting Pax during naptimes/nighttime).

One last thing: give yourself permission to put your mom in her place in front of Pax. This includes explaining to Pax that your mom didn't follow your directions, and such-and-such is what you, his mom, wants for him, and grandma is not his mom, etc. Your responsibility to protect your son requires that you put distance between him and your mom at times, although it sounds like that will definitely hurt your mom's feelings until she gets it. Politely hold her accountable to her choices to override your place... it's not your or Pax's fault if she doesn't heed your warnings and explanations. Perhaps you will never have to employ this, but you should at least give yourself permission to do it.

Whew - another long post. I'm going to soak my typing fingers! Ha! Best of luck to you, Pax and your mom!
-Beverly