[sprunger1]

ok.. More questions from the new mom! lol
I have devoured Nancy Thomas' book, and dh has been listening to the cd's I got for him. After talking with dh, it sounds like they pretty much go over the same things. Can't say how nice it is to feel like he and I are finally getting on the same page!

Question is.. fs has been here for 3 MONTHS already. Because we had no idea of his issues, we have not parented correctly. Now that we know, and wish to institute change within the home, I am prepared for a huge battle with fs.

I feel totally lost still, in knowing how to deal with things as they come up. Dh is talking about getting the alarm for his bedroom door. I need to make sure that he begins asking for everything under the sun, and also limit his tv / video games. Stupid as it sounds, all of this is overwhelming to me because I don't have consequences prepared, for one. Another thing is that it is into the 100's outside, and I have a difficult time keeping fs busy on the days he's home (nor have I enjoyed his company, sadly).

Does anyone have advice on how to make changes once the child has had so much freedom in the home?? Do we just sit him down and explain that things are going to change? Do we just start making the changes and expect him to get it as he goes?? I know we're supposed to "keep them on their toes".

I started yesterday with making sure he walks either beside me or behind me.. But of course his response is "well then I'll just walk WAY behind you."...ARGH!!! What do I do when he is so resistent to the things he's being asked??? Send him to his room? Tell him he'll have to hold my hand, which he'll fight the whole time?? Thomas' book gives the technique's, but I'm left with the question of "ok, THEN what?" I know he'll fight everything I try to accomplish, no matter what my technique, so I'm afraid to begin making changes just yet, until I know how to deal when he doesn't step into line like the book suggests he will.

Help is SO appreciated!!

[athikers]

With M, we worked on one behavior issue at a time. SMALL things where both she and us could see the difference somewhat quickly. It takes time, but I can only assume this is an adoptive placement, so you've got time!

[mama3veces]

We have had to start over after 2 years of parenting our RAD boy and not knowing that this was his situation. With the guidance of an Attatcment Therapist and Nancy Thomas, we have done just exactly what you said in your post. We sat him down and explained that "We are on to you ds. And things are going to be different now. We are strong parents who are not going to allow you to be in charge." Our therapist is GREAT at giving us the precise words to use in different situations, and the amazing thing is that instead of fighting us, ds feels safe by us being in TOTAL CONTROL of his every move. He is actually happiest when he is working doing chores that he has been told to do. This is a very scary parenting job that requires serious leaps of faith (many of them). But my best advice is do not let you child see your uncertainty. Learn how to "act" like everything you are doing/saying/deciding is completely intentional and planned. They need us to be in control. For me what works in those moments when I truly do not know what to do/say is to tell ds to sit on the sofa so he can get strong enough to talk about___________. this actually gives me the few minutes I need to regroup and come up with my plan, but he doesn't know this.

I have read Nancy Thomas "When Love is Not Enough" three times. Now I skim through different highlighted sections frequently, sometimes just to give me the strength to get through the day (or a particular moment).

Good luck and God bless you and your family!

[blueprints]

Originally Posted by sprunger1

ok.. More questions from the new mom! lol


I started yesterday with making sure he walks either beside me or behind me.. But of course his response is "well then I'll just walk WAY behind you."...ARGH!!! !!

We have 2 children with severe RAD, what works for us is a technic that our therapist taught us....

Make what the child is doing what you want. (they do not want to please)

So when he's following WAY behind you, you say....

"Thank you for not following too close, your doing just what mommy wants, I'm so glad your not right behind me."

Our therapist wrote two books that you might be interested in....

"Parenting the Hurt Child"

[blueprints]

Originally Posted by sprunger1

ok.. More questions from the new mom! lol


I started yesterday with making sure he walks either beside me or behind me.. But of course his response is "well then I'll just walk WAY behind you."...ARGH!!! !!

We have 2 children with severe RAD, what works for us is a technic that our therapist taught us....

Make what the child is doing what you want. (they do not want to please)

So when he's following WAY behind you, you say....

"Thank you for not following too close, your doing just what mommy wants, I'm so glad your not right behind me."

Our therapist wrote two books that you might be interested in....

"Parenting the Hurt Child"

[blueprints]

Originally Posted by sprunger1

Does anyone have advice on how to make changes once the child has had so much freedom in the home?? Do we just sit him down and explain that things are going to change? Do we just start making the changes and expect him to get it as he goes?? I know we're supposed to "keep them on their toes".

I started yesterday with making sure he walks either beside me or behind me.. But of course his response is "well then I'll just walk WAY behind you."...ARGH!!!

Help is SO appreciated!!

There's a couple of books I'd like to recommend...

"Parenting the Hurt Child"
and
"Adopting the Hurt Child"

by Dr. Keck and Regina Kupecky

We have two RAD children and when we had to take away freedom in the beginning, Regina explained it to the kids that she was going to help Mom and Dad help them to learn to be in a family and this is what we needed to do. (our children lived 2 years in an orphanage)

I was surprised, they actually accepted the changes even though they were extremely ODD.

One thing that really worked for us was....

Make what the child is doing what you want because they do not want to please you....

For instance you can say....

"Thank you for not following right behind me, your doing just what mommy wants. How did you know I need a little room? You're such a good boy."

They key is (and it's so hard) Don't let them know they are getting to you! Stay calm and happy.

[blueprints]

Sorry about all the posts.... My computer kept erasing what I was writing and I have no idea why it posted the ones I didn't finish.

[sprunger1]

Ok.. I finally have a solid question! lol

Could you give me an example of a typical day with your children? You mention that the more they do busy work, the calmer they seem.
While I'm SLOWLY learning how to make it seem that I LIKE the little things he purposely does to bother me, I still have major struggles with starting over, making him ask for everything and keeping him busy with things besides TV.
Today for instance.. I had him do some chores. There were only a few that I had at the drop of a hat like today. Then I put out some workbook pages for him to do, which he normally does with no problem. Then I had him pick out a coloring page to do. But after that, he was done and got up from the table and promptly began watching a movie that HE had taped by himself on the DVR!! These are things that I find inappropriate, but don't know what else to do with him. I do not have the time, nor was I prepared to actively parent all day long. Am I wrong in feeling like this is what is required with our fs? It seems as though the rest of my life is slowly being phased out, while he takes center stage. I just don't know how to handle life in this manner!

I'd really like to see how you all spend your days with our children so I have a working model.

Thanks!

[Lorraine123]

I sent you a PM outlining my typical day. Its very exhausting.

My daughter was home for 3 years before we implemented Nancy Thomas techniques. We implemented them all at once. Yes, she did not like it. But I think that was best. She knew we meant business and that we were strong enough to take over.

Oh, and - I do not allow my child to put movies in the DVD, or choose to watch tv. She must ask permission.

[TxMom65]

This is the first summer I have spent with my daughter so I'm learning as well. I have her start the day the same pretty much each day. When she wakes we sit together in the recliner for a little while and watch TV (not the best, I know). Then she eats breakfast and when she is finished she has to make her bed, brush her teeth and and hair. I choose her clothes and she gets dressed and then takes care of the animals.
We've had a crazy summer so that is the only part that has been the same each day.

[blueprints]

Originally Posted by sprunger1

Ok.. I finally have a solid question! lol

Could you give me an example of a typical day with your children? You mention that the more they do busy work, the calmer they seem.
While I'm SLOWLY learning how to make it seem that I LIKE the little things he purposely does to bother me, I still have major struggles with starting over, making him ask for everything and keeping him busy with things besides TV.

Thanks!

With my kids it's very important to always be structured, but the thing is, you can schedule windows of free time.

For instance a typical day...

Wake up.... make their beds and get dressed.

Next they can choose playing with toys or TV. (half hour to hour, what ever suits me or until they loose interest)

If we do TV, (educational kids shows) it's ONLY TV. If they are allowed to play with toys during TV time they quickly spin out of control because they wont focus.

We try once a day to practice writing... (they can barely write thier name so we're working on it all summer)

I always try to alternate something focused like writing or reading with play and big movement. So next I'll let them go outside, they must stay in thier yard and after 3 years we are finally starting to understand boundries. They have swings, trampoline, swimming pool, bikes.... you name it. I can usually keep an eye on them from the kitchen window and it allows me to get something done.

We usually do lunch outside on the picnic table. After they've played themselves out they can come in and color, read books, or play with toys, something calmer. It's very important to give them choices and make sure they are doing one thing at a time. I usually have them tell me if they want to stop and do something else. This way they are not bouncing back and forth without focus.

I have them help set the table for dinner, and afterwards take thier plate to the sink, they just love it! The more things you give them to do, the happier they are. After dinner now that it's summer they'll usually go outside for a while.

By 7:30 or 8:00 bathtime, and I usually let them choose a movie before bed. After the movie, they'll get to choose a snack. With a RAD child, they love choosing... it's so important go give choices, it makes them feel they have some control, but yet you are the one in charge. Next they say thier prayers and they're off to bed. The more you keep things routine the better, it helps them to know what to expect and this causes them to trust.

I find that when we have a day that we go off the routine, (because of not being home, holidays, or parties) this is when we see more raging and opposition.

[sprunger1]

Whew.. It's nice to see that you are able to have some free time. I AM finding that today. I kept M busy this morning, and now I am able to spend some time getting work done on the computer, all the while keeping ears peeled to his every move, as he likes playing with the pets (something I'm not keen on right now after the disappearance and strange conversation about our cat).

The time a RAD child seems to consume has been a huge concern for me, since the other two kids in the home still really need time with mom. Bio dd, 15, is more independent and strong willed. She will TELL ME when she needs time. Bio son, 10, does not. He's very mild mannered and quiet and can tend to slip through the cracks if I am not paying close attention to how much time he's given. He's also been in a tailspin, as he was really looking forward to being big brother, not expecting a child that would act as though he hates him. The dynamic between the two has caused such a dilema for me, because I cannot even play cards with the two of them, as bio son is DONE.. He wants nothing to do with M at this point and is actually afraid of him, although he is much bigger than M. He voiced the other day through tears that he fears M is going to hurt ME.

Keeping M busy is something I will have to spend time developing! We are a casual family and so being so structured is taking time to get used to! lol

As far as watching TV.. I go back and forth. I'd like to start letting him, for 30-60 minutes, giving me time to do something else. I have to really watch him though because he just takes more liberties than he should. He tapes so much stuff on the DVR, even after being told not to.. This is why I've stopped the TV watching for now.

Outside, it's in the 100's already . YUCK!
What sort of things do you have them do when outdoor play is not available? We've got legos, moonsand, books and coloring. He gets bored very easily. Today, he'll play for a bit, and then he's on me, hugging me.. I'm trying to teach him that I am in control of the hugging, not him. I will not hug and kiss him on his terms, only mine. But most days, he's on me so much that I don't get a chance to be the invitor. Any ideas??

[blueprints]

Yes these kids are extremely time consuming and mine need constant watching... it's exhausting! Please be careful with your pets, it's very common for a child with RAD to harm the family pets. You definitely need to take some time for yourself or you'll burn out quickly. Can you give him a nap? Even if he's not going to sleep, let him go in and lay down for an hour or so that you can have a break. I tell my kids they don't have to sleep but they need to lay down or play quietly in their bed. They take in little stuffed animals and that usually keeps them occupied for at least an hour. And a bonus..... Sometimes they actually fall asleep!

I don't know if this will help but, when our children first came home, they were constant motion. They had never seen anything in a home, I seriously think they were confined to one room in the orphanage. They wanted to touch everything and they ran from thing to thing.... My daughter would run to the stove, turn on the burner and then try to reach for the flame! And I had two of them at the same time, I could not keep up.

The very first thing our therapist suggested was to put a blanket down on the floor (one for each of them) and give them one toy at a time. (like you would for a baby). We told them to stay on the blanket and each time they got off we'd put them back. This worked as long as I kept close enough to keep an eye on them. I could get a few things done and they would at least stay put.

After that we graduated to a small tent in the family room... These kids love to be contained, our therapist says it makes them feel safe. My son would go in his tent, zip it up and play for hours, sometimes just going in and out. (zipping unzipping.... totally nuts! But hey, it kept him busy.)

Here's a few busy projects I use and it makes them feel a part of what you are doing...

Folding laundry .... towels, underwear, sorting socks! (don't expect it to be perfect, this just keeps them busy)

Dust the kitchen chairs, (feather duster)... they love this.

Windex and paper towel and let them clean our big sliding door window. Also, if you have a sliding door window (or a big window) you can buy the vinyl plastics cling stickers... they sell sometimes at a craft store and they can arrange them on the window any way they want.

Sometimes I get macaroni noodles and sea shells.... (different sizes) and ask my son if he would help mommy, someone mixed up all the noodles and I needed them separated. I don't know if your son needs this but, this was also something his occupational therapist recommended because he needed practice sorting things.

Something to do with him that he'll love is baking. Even if you just get the kind they sell in the dairy case where you just place them on the cookie sheet and bake. If you let him put them on the cookie sheet, he'll feel he's making cookies.... my kids love this. Then I have them tell me when the timer goes off (as if I can't hear it)...... They really think their helping and they think they've made cookies. If you make peanutbutter cookies (dairy case kind) and buy a bag of Kisses....... You can give him the job of opening up all the kisses for the Kiss cookies.

Here's something we use when the kids are spinning out of control...... Tell them it's exercise time and ask them to march in place, then jumping jacks, toe touching, etc.....

To be more in control of the hugging...... That is a tough one, my kids are the same way they want affection on their terms. Something you might want to try is have a bedtime routine. Take him and rock him, read a book, while cradling him in your arms like a baby, it puts you in control and he probably needs to be held. And...... you may think this is nuts but our therapist recommends this (no matter his age), feed him a bottle.

Take care of yourself..... When ever you can schedule time away, get a sitter if you have to, it's so important!

[cpipitone]

Your sharing is invaluable, Blueprints. I so wish I would have come to this forum two years ago when DD was bouncing off the walls, controling and manipulating every moment of our life. It took us way tolong to get a proper diagnosis and now she is 12! I am too frustrated and burned out now to try bottle feeding, but could have done cradling when she was just 10 and fresh an happy seeming to us. Now she just seems so toxic and the relationship is so strained.

Had I known...

[mama3veces]

I would just add that my RAD ds does NOT respond well at all to choices. He is much happier when I do all the deciding (although he does not realize this on a conscious level). Example...for TWO YEARS he argued at every meal (especially breakfast) when I would give him a choice. It wouldn't matter what the two choices were, even if they were his two VERY favorite choices, because he would want whatever was NOT being offered, JUST SO HE COULD BE IN CONTROL. So...now I do not even turn off his door alarm to get him from his room in the morning until his breakfast is already on the table! We have peace in the morning now. After good morning kisses and hugs, he quietly slips into his chair at the table saying "Thank you for breakfast mom." So many of the things I am finding that work for my ds are TOTALLY THE OPPOSITE of what my instincts tell me, like choices for example. It is exhausting! You are not alone! Keep on keeping on!