[whoownsthis]

We've had our girls for 7 months (finally got a court date for next month to finalize! ), but the oldest has started to act out. Her therapist says she's trying to get control (but now, after 7 months in our home with structure, no babysitters, no overnight visits anywhere, choices, praise for good choices, lots of nurturing, lots of logical consequences?)

A few weeks ago we got a call from her school (she's in 1st grade) and it turns out she had been stealing items---candy mostly) from kids' backpacks. Since that time, she has been caught (either by us, her teacher, the lunchroom monitor, etc.) several more times--taking milk and not paying for it (we pack her lunch), taking items out of her teacher's desk, etc. They know her situation and we signed a release so that her therapist could give them suggestions to deal with the behaviors (quick, logical consequences, lots of praise for doing the opposite and little attention to the negative behaviors other than the logical consequences).

Well, tonight she stepped it up a notch and happily showed me more candy that she had supposedly gotten for "good behavior" from school (they have suspended her treat privileges for 2 weeks, but she did have a substitute teacher today who might not have known). I felt she was taunting me (trying to get a reaction), so I didn't react. Just "Really? Who gave it to you?....Why?" (Of course I'm setting her up to fail because I know she won't tell the truth. Grr.) Her therapist recommended that in the future, anything else she brings home should simply be discarded or I should take it back to the school with NO reactions for her to see and no questions to which she can respond with lies.

I also checked the trash can in her bedroom today when I found cookie crumbs in her bed (she is NEVER out of my sight during the day), and I found several candy wrappers, a pill with an "E" on it (probably my teenaged stepson's Excedrin migraine medicine that he had in his bedroom---he's only here every other weekend, and I've caught her in the early morning snooping in his room). I also found an open Efferdent package that looked like she had sucked on it and put it back in the package, a sucker that I KNOW was in my purse, and several other candy items! (My stepson uses the Efferdent to clean his retainer, so I'm sure it wasn't very tasty! ) So it's obvious that she's still wandering the house sometime during the night or early morning hours.

I didn't tell her I had found these things because I want to monitor her trash can for a while. In the meantime, my husband is researching motion sensors and will eventually install one that can send an alarm to our room (I'll have to wear a headset, though--not sure how that will work). The therapist agreed with this idea "if you feel her safety is at risk" (yeah, she could walk out the front door, get hurt, eat something toxic, etc., etc.!), but that we should NOT present it to her as punishment. Meanwhile, the therapist recommended a certified attachment therapist who is nearly 3 hours away, so we're checking on that.

1. The stealing at school is pretty "minor" considering what most of you have gone through with your kiddos, and it has only started within the last few weeks. We're putting into practice all of the recommendations from Nancy Thomas', Greg Keck's, and the Love and Logic books (at least when we can remember them). We need to get more bonding time with her, but it's so difficult with two little ones who need that one-on-one time, too (kindergarten and preschooler).

2. She lies constantly about everything, but they are inventive "stories," and we never ask her "Did you....?" or "Why haven't you...?" because that sets her up to lie. We're just assuming she's lying and consequence, promising to make it up to her if we end up being wrong. (Hasn't happened, yet!)

3. Finally, we're concerned about this wandering thing at night (that I didn't realize until today when I found the items buried in her trash can underneath about 30 tissues and diaper wipes---we keep these in the bathroom for her to clean herself up with each morning after wetting the bed. The fact that there are any in her trashcan tells me that she's waking in the middle of the night wet, but rather than wake us, she cleans herself, changes her underwear, and then tells me "I didn't wet!" in the morning. I never react, just "OK," since I don't want to encourage the lying (I had been giving her high-fives until I discovered hidden wet Pull-ups. We don't use those anymore!). She's on Ditropan XL for about 6 weeks now, and her pediatrician is "shocked" that she's still wetting. Ha! I personally think she's squeezing every last drop she can just so that she has that control. Plus it gives her an excuse to get up and wander. Now why she's hiding the wipes in her room rather than throwing them away in the bathroom where they're kept is beyond me!)

We know this is attachment stuff, but it still seems miniscule compared to the children the attachment therapist has treated in the past (and all of your stories). Is it worth pursuing attachment therapy rather than trying to heal her on our own? A three-hour trip (one way) twice a month will be "challenging" at best, not to mention the cost (Medicaid won't pay and he's "out-of-network" for our insurance). What was your "last straw" that caused you to find an attachment therapist???

Thanks for the help.

P.S. She has a lower IQ (69), so I'm not sure how that will factor in her healing.

P.P. S. We're also going to put a lock on the medicine cabinet and the sink where the cleaning supplies are.

[lucyjoy]

Kids with attachment issues don't IQ test well so I wouldn't put a lot of thought into those numbers. Besides, it seams she does way too much manipulating to have and IQ that low. Something to keep in mind.

Yes, to the attachment therapist. If she's not that bad off, the healing will go quickly. What the parenting does is treat the symptoms and teach proper behavior. The therapy deals with the root of the issue-the inability to trust, the need to control, and the ability to form strong emotional bonds. It is needed, in my opinion.

If it were me, I would put a key lock on the older boys door. He deserves his privacy and there are things that could hurt her there.

As for alarms, I like the door contact alarms that are designed for the outsides of windows and doors. I have a control pad in my room that shows me open and closed doors and will chime as the open and shut. I can set certain doors to a loud alarm if I am worried about sleeping through it(I used that only for my fire setter)

[Lorraine123]

I second the vote for the attachment therapist. I know its a lot of time on your part, and a lot of money, but it really can't be done on your own. She is young is able to possibly heal.

My daughter wanders out of her room at night. We have a gate that we can hear open. I used to be a sound sleeper, now I'm up at every little noise!!! She went through a period where she would pee on the family room floor every night and then look as sweet as could be when we went to wake her up in the morning. That is until one of us stepped in the wet spot... What a way to say good morning!!!!

My daughter's IQ has tested all over the place. I don't put much stock in any of the scores. And besides IQ will not affect attachment. It isn't an intellectual choice. I look at how great my daughter is at manipulation, lieing, triangulation and I think she must be a genius!!!! Remember these are survival skills, not necessarily intelligence.

I think you should give the attachment therapist a try.

[whoownsthis]

Thanks, that's what I figured (re: need for attachment therapy).

But as for the IQ, I tend to believe it's close---she doesn't seem to get alot of what kids SHOULD get at her age (8), but we're not sure if that's due to developmental delays or just lack of experience, OR if she's simply manipulating us, the school psychologist who tested her for her IEP, etc., etc.. She gets easily frustrated with math homework and we thought she'd never master addition, but voila! She now knows that "2+3=5" and "5+5=10"!!! She'll also stay at her homework until (she thinks) she gets it right. That doesn't seem manipulative, but she could be a "perfectionist controller" as far as AD or RAD go. (She cries when I gently point out mistakes and try to explain easier ways for understanding and remembering when she's not getting it.)

Anyway, her current therapist recommended a full psych assessment (with testing, too). We can then know specifically what she has/doesn't has.

Are these tests effective for AD kids? Will it be a waste of time and money?

Thanks!

[lucyjoy]

If the psychologist's main population is attachment children the assessment can have value. Otherwise, in my opinion, until the attachment component is addressed, the rest of the information is hard to accurately assess.

Math issues are related to RAD. Something to do with the brain connections. This seems to be the subject they have the most issue with. I don't know the research behind it, but I do commonly hear it.

[whoownsthis]

We're going to hold off on the "full psych screen" until after the attachment therapist assesses our daughter. The person I spoke to at his office said that he MAY agree with our current therapist (who has been doing nondirective play therapy with our daughter) and ask for a full screen (to rule out PTSD, ADD, etc.) OR he may think it's unnecessary. So at least that's one less decision I'll have to make in the short term.

[whoownsthis]

I mentioned earlier that our oldest (just turned 8, repeating 1st grade) had her IQ tested for her IEP last year (score of 69) and again this Fall (70). You had both warned me not to put too much stock into the numbers since she's somewhere on the Attachment Disorder spectrum.

Well, here's an example of the way she talks (she asked this tonight at supper of her 4-yr-old sister who received a cupcake at preschool yesterday for Kyle's birthday. He's a child at her preschool.):

"L, what you did have fun with Kyle birthday?" (I think she meant "What fun thing did you do for Kyle's birthday?"

She rarely structures sentences correctly, in writing OR verbally, and she's in speech and language therapy. She reads well, though, and receives 100% on all of her spelling tests. The math is a struggle, but it's beginning to click. We're really concerned about the language (ability to communicate). We'll correct her by rephrasing her statement as an intelligible question. Like: "Yes, L, what fun thing DID you DO for Kyle's birthday yesterday?" Occasionally we'll stop her and correct her, and she'll repeat the sentence correctly. But 5 minutes later she'll say it wrong again in conversation with her sisters. Ugh.

Does this sound like attachment, or a true disability? Or maybe it's just that old habits die hard???