[sirky]

We have 2 fost-adopt children who have been with us for over a year now. A boy "P" age 7 1/2, and his bio sib, a girl "B" who will be 5 in April. We also have a bio daughter "J" who will be 3 in March. We have also found out that I am pregnant and have been bed ridden for the past 2 months with hyperemesis (extreme "morning" sickness). For the past month B has been getting out of bed at night and getting in to things - doing the things she is not allowed to do. Such as: playing for all hours, playing with the animals (not allowed because she hurts them), taking the other childrens special toys and hiding them, and stealing special foods like cookies and candy. We have tried to move her into a playpen to sleep and that worked for about 10 days and now she just climbs out.

I try to not react to much to her, just tell her how sorry I am and that she will have to stay with me at all times when she is awake, because she is not making good choices. As soon as I give her freedom to do something like touch the animals when I can see her only, she will touch them when I cannot see her. If I tell her that she may play in her bedroom with out me for a while, she will break a toy or hide toys in her bed. If I keep her with me she sulks nad has violent temper tantrums screaming, kicking, hitting, scratching and pulling on her clothes. So I am at a loss.

We have always had these problems with her, only now we have the sneaking out at night and that is my largest concern. A lot of this is probably due to the pregnancy and the fact that we are close to the date she moved in with us. She goes in cycles and this is just one of the bad ones, I just need to know if there are ways of keeping her safe at night, IN HER BED. If I just let her play in her room, she gets very off schedule, cranky, and will not go to sleep the following evening.

We had her in therapy with an attchment therapist, but that did not work out very well and our tharapist actually said there is nothing she can do for her at this time. I have tried to find another attachment therapist - but there doesnt seem to be any around my area.

ANY help would be appreciated.

[echaos]

Have you considered taking everything out of her room except, bed, sheets, pillows for night time? I know I read that a lot of parents with RAD kids resort to this.

I'm guessing that because it's a foster situation, you might have different rules / laws about locking her bedroom door at night? What about an alarm on her door so that you know the minute she leaves her room?

[lucyjoy]

While she might be cranky if she misses sleep, staying in her room and playing is a better option then wondering around where she could get hurt or wonder out the front door or something(never know what these little ones will dream up). I would put an alarm on the door to prevent her leaving the room without my knowledge.
She likely is scared about you being in bed and feels a need to take control of her own care. Sounds like she's practicing her survival tactics. What about a baby monitor in her room so you can here her? I've seen a two way one that you could talk back should you here her start to leave her room. My son hates the silence and will not sleep when it's too quiet. He has a radio in his room he plays at night. Would that help? Would leaving a snack of some sort in her room make her feel more secure? Have you checked the websites that list attachment therapists? Sometimes if you call one fairly close, they can give you the name of someone closer to you. You can find listings of therapist on www.radzebra.org(and contact them directly with an area code and they may know others), www.attachment.org and www.attach.org

[sirky]

Thank you for your suggestions.

I have considered removing everything from her room. But this wont work because she shares a room with J and they have no where else to store their clothes, shoes, toys, ect. We just do not hve the room in our house. We also have not done the door alarm because she will simply play in her room - and waking up J to come join her (we tried closing the door and this is what happened.

I AM very nervous about her leaving the house, so I think I will try a two-way baby monitor. I like that suggestion - maybe I'll even use a video monitor.

We have music playing to help her fall asleep - she just doesn't STEY asleep. We have an air cleaner running all night, and while this is amust for her to be able to fall asleep (white noise - worrks great!), it doesn't keep her asleep.

I have check 8 different websites, and none have therapists that can help me. There was one listed close to my area (about an hour away) and he refused to help us based on the fact that her medical coverage is medi-cal (this states free insurance for foster kids) right now (our insuance will cover her once the adoption is finalised - but who knows when that will be). He also did not have any recommendations for me and was actually a bit rude on the phone once he found out she was covered by medi-cal. Strange considering that so many kids with attachment disorders are part of the state system!

So, I will try the two-monitor idea, but ANY other ideas would be great!

[lucyjoy]

You can get motion detectors that can be used with an open door.

Maybe the baby monitor will give you an idea of what and when she's waking up. My concern would be-why isn't she staying asleep? If she were just not going to sleep to sneak around or play, that's one thing, but waking from sleep consistantly at night is a differen't issue. Maybe you'll be able to tell with the monitor.
If she's having bad dreams, maybe she needs to leave the room to check on things and be sure she's safe. I'm not saying to allow her to, but her feelings as to why if it's a fear issue you would want to address. Can you have her wake you if she wakes up at night? Maybe you could then comfort her and tuck her back in?

(Don't you wish that all kids were born with instructions attached sometimes?)

[rindava]

Can the child sleep in the floor in your room so you can monitor her better at night? Can you put your 2 year old in her room? Can you buy a storage building to put their stuff in it outside? Can you put up with just having their stuff in the living room or something?


Well, having this same issue here, locally we can drug the child to sleep at night (Dr. prescribed) and use alarms.......out adoption is final, but it it were not, the in room with foster to adopt over 2 years old is prohibited.....We didn't have luck with door alarms, but I think hallway motion detectors would work for some, depend on situation...

We have one get out of the house looking for unlocked cars, etc.... So, if she is staying inside that is a good sign

[sirky]

Well yesterday I bought a camera monitor for the girls' room. Also I placed a child safety gate in the doorway - tight enough so that she couldn't move it, yet loose enough so that if she tried to move it to much it would fall.

Well at about 5:30 in the morning (the same time she has awaken on many previous mornings) I heard some noises and looked at the monitor and couldn't see her in her bed. So I waited and about 10 minutes later - CRASH! Then I watched her scurry across the room (the camers is postitioned right now so that I cannot see all of the room) I saw her run across the room and very quietly and deliberatly crawl in the bed - NAKED!

I went downstairs and I talked to her (she does not know there is a camera in her room right now) and she said she was just sleeping and that the cats knocked it over. I told her that I did not believe that that was the truth and did she want to think about it for a moment. She then said yes, she had gotten aout of bed and I asked her why, she replaied "to play". I asked then Why did she not have any clothes on, and she informed me that she had to pee so went on the floor. Sure enough there was a puddle of pee on the floor! So I just said good night kiddo and left it at that. What really bugs me is that she did not have to go pee so bad that she knocked over the gate so she could run to the bathroom - she deliberatly peed on the floor, then went to go out of the room.

In the past ,when she has woke up in the middle of the night due to a bad dream of somthing, she would call out and we could sooth her, but she was also not very awake at that time. She is very cognisant whe nshe is waking up to play, and very aware that she is not to be doing it. Now when I ask her why she is waking up she just says that she doesn't know, or that she wants to get up and play.

We tried a period of about 6 weeks when she was waking up and then would call us down. This got to be game with her calling us down to her room up to 6 times a night wanting water, go to the bathroom, and just telling us she was awake. It got worse as time went on so we began telling her that she would just have to wait until we got up in the morning, and then she could get up also. This worked for a couple of weeks, then she started waking in the middle of the night and playing.

Technically she cannot sleep in our room because we have not finalised the adoption yet and she is still technically a foster child. As for storing all thier toys away, sure it would be great solution to keeping her from playing at night but what would I do about it during the day. It hardly seems fair to the 2 yro to take away all the toys from her as well. Our living room is not set up (unfortunatly - this is a good idea as well) so that I can keep thier toys in that room. It would be ideal to have a whole seperate play room wouldn't it!

If falling asleep were the problem (it used to be this), then we would be able to help it alot more because there were tricks that helped. Nut with this type of behavior. she is very, very quiet to not wake us up - so I can't help calm her back to sleep.

I wish I knew why she was waking up - she doesn't, and I am at a total loss.

Arghh. But at least I feel safer now that I can see her at night and know where she is, as well as hear her going through the doors. I am going to search tomarrow for a door alarm - one that I can use with the door open, because of course with the gate dropping to the ground, my 2yro woke up early (whom she shares a room with), and everyone was tired all day.

[qs mom]

whatever time my son wakes up, he's up. And he doesn't care what time it is, how tired he is, he should be able to be up and play. He's 5.

He has SID. He doesn't want to miss anything. He also has some mild attachment and PTSD. He's afraid to sleep. He's afraid to dream. But he can't tell me what he's afraid of. So, he just doesn't want to sleep. He still wears pull-ups to bed, or he wets.

Does the video monitor have a tape to it? Maybe if you could actually see what happens before she wakes, you might have a reason behind it - dreams, etc.

Was she sexually abused, that you know of? Could she be remembering?

It's so hard when they don't know. What is bedtime like? I actually lay on the floor with my son, snuggle real close and read a book of his choice. I hug him really tight, remind him that I always take care of him and keep him safe. It seems to help a little.

[sirky]

Unfortunatly the camera does not have a recorder - that would be great help.

I haven't noticed that she is having more nightmares lately - she calls us down to her room when she has them. But perhaps she is not doing that now and is just getting out of bed instead.

I do not think she has been sexually abused, perhaps exposed to sexual behaviors of others though. We really dont know, and she does not remember.

Bedtimes are easy now. She used to have ALOT of trouble getting to sleep, now we have worked out ways to help her fall asleep.

She is really having a hard time right now all around; during the day she is having to stay with me all the time, and her anxiety level and defiance are unusually high right now - basically 100% of the time. I know that she is nervous about me being pregnant, and it is worrisome to her that I will no longer want her after the baby is born. We talk alot about it, she participates in all the doctor apps, and we call it a family baby. I have also been so sick that I have not been able to spend as much quality time with her as I used to. Could this be the entire reason she has shut off from us so completly and waking at night. She can't tell me what is waking her so I am still at a loss. At least with the new monitor and child gate she is safe, but she is now resorting to calling the two year old and waking her up to play with her. I am afriad of seperating the two as this will increase B's anxiety levels by being alone. She is VERY dependant on J (the 2 yro). It is as though J is the big sister. This is thier relationship at preschool as well, we hope that kindergarten this fall will help B become her own person.


q's mom - what so you do when your son wakes in the middle of the night?

[qs mom]

My son usually wakes because of a nightmare. So, I just snuggle him, tell him it o.k. - you know, the dreams can't hurt us, they're only make beleive kind of stuff and I do something that probably is going to sound way off, but I tickle him. I get a couple really good laughs out of him, snuggle and off to sleep he goes. I never turn the light on, and I have to keep telling him that it's still sleep time, still night time. Otherwise he'd be playing. I also had to turn the light on the nightlight way down. It's adjustable, so there's barely any light coming from it. He used to get up and play by the light of the nightlight.

My son has severe SI delays, so tickling actually has a calming effect on him most times.

But, I have to say, I'm a single mom and I often sleep on the floor in his room. He was in an orphanage for 2 years and still needs to know that I'm there. Since I'm single, I don't have to worry about upsetting the hubby.

Any change in routine really messes him up. If we were in your situation of being pregnant and sick, it would be terrible here. It could very well be a big part of the problem.

I'd like to use a gate, but my son, the monkey would just climb over it. That is another reason I stay so close, he would also just walk out of the house without really thinking about it. So before I leave his room for good, a good door alarm will be installed along with additional locks to the outside doors. I already put on some that are out of his reach, he kept pulling up a chair to unlock the door - that was at 3!

[blueprints]

Go to any baby store and buy the plasitic covers that go over doorknobs..... My 5 year old cannot open a door that has this cover over it.

[qs mom]

Tried 'em. He go them open. My son has very advanced survival skills. He can get out of just about anything, if he wants to enough. Actually, I should say, if he's scared enough.

I'm fortunate in that his teachers and the principal are very aware of his threat of bolting. There is always a quick adult quite close to him. If he's scared or feel threatened, he WILL hurt you and he WILL get away.

He's come a long way. He feels so much more at ease and he feels safer, so these episodes really are far apart now.

But things that would scare the heck out of you and me leave him unfazed. It's funny/odd the things that frighten him.

[whoownsthis]

Sirky,
Most camera/video monitors can be hooked up to a VCR with red and/or white and/or yellow RCA cables. You should be able to buy an 8-hour VHS tape at the store or set a 2-hour tape to "EP" (the longest recording time, 6 hours?).

If that's too expensive, contact a local tech school (like Ivy Tech, DeVry, etc.) and see if they'd be willing to make it a student project. You'd provide the parts, and they'd provide the students and the tools to get it done.

Video monitoring might be a legal safeguard (and helpful for therapy) if it turns out she is acting out sexually. Has she been wetting the bed or wetting/soiling during the day?

Finally, the attachment therapist who refused to work with you due to your insurance should be reported to the licensing board! Besides, companies are required by law to provide foster-to-adopt children with health insurance if they're in an adoptive placement. (Even BEFORE the adoption is finalized, as long as you have documents declaring your home to be the adoptive placement). Our girls have been on our insurance since they arrived (as foster children for the 6-month wait until we can go back to court to finalize), but their Medicaid coverage is actually better for mental health care.

[qs mom]

Hmmm, I had a highly recommended therapist turn us down because my son's insurance company won't pay them as much as they think they should be paid.

"I'm sorry, we cannot accept any more patients with YADA, YADA insurance. The insurance company lowered our payments, so in the meantime, we won't accept anymore patients" "Maybe you should call the insurance company and tell them of your dis-satisfaction" To that the insurance company replied "We can't make them take you"

So, we're waiting for our first appointment somewhere else.

[sirky]

just an update...

We have gone a few days now - and we have finally seemed to have made it through this bump. She is staying in her bed at night, with the help of very loud bells attached to the railings and a safety gate across her doorway - with bells attached as well in case she decides to climb over! And with a two way audio monitor and a tv monitor as well we are able to react quickly to her getting out of bed.

Thank you everyone for your support and advice. I got a few referrals and it really helped!